I have purchased several online-only books from DDB website before one was marked as "Legacy Content" due to the release of Mordenkainen's Monsters of the Multiwhateverse and the marketing move that we are witnessing as WotC moves towards OneD&D (which I do not plan to play). While it is uncertain what will happen to Legacy Content once OneD&D is fully online, it's also clear that content purchased on DDB could well disappear since that is technically within the rights of WotC to erase/censor/disallow use of their own previously printed material.
I realize that WotC is a business. As such it's primary aim is to make money. However, it would be very unfair to its customers if it were to cut off access to Legacy Content purchased by customers with the understanding that such content would be accessible so long as DDB is maintained as a website.
Question is: What is a fair and just compensation to its customers if WotC does, in fact, decide to go through with shutting off access to its own e-books purchased on this website?
Nothing. You didn’t purchase the books, you purchased a limited license to view the books on dndbeyond for as long as they decide to leave them up. It’s in the small print. This is why many people have said buying online only access is a very bad thing for the consumer. You literally have no rights at all to any compensation.
What is a fair and just compensation to its customers if WotC does, in fact, decide to go through with shutting off access to its own e-books purchased on this website?
Two sourcebooks I had vanished one morning from my app and the website. Fortunately, I had purchased the one that replaced them.
Also fortunately, I had them in hardcover. Indeed, I only have one book that is not in hardcover, and that is the Keys from the golden vault. I only have it digitally.
However...
I don't expect any compensation. These are not digital files I am purchasing to download onto my PC and save for my personal use. The "i bought a book, it is mine" thing hasn't been a rule since 2003 when the courts around the world basically said that wasn't a thing online. If you were buying a book, then you would have a file and you would be able to use that file without an internet connection and even be able to move it around to other systems and so forth.
I use a couple adobe products. I am well aware of how I don't own jack's best feature. Hell, Facebook is built on the model, lol.
to think that if you buy it here it is yours forever after is a really uninformed position and while it may be common or even typical, that doesn't make it a good one or reasonable one.
My answer is "the ability to keep using the site" as a whole. I use the site so I can reference things while I set up my House Rules in a fixed format, develop the campaigns, and then to interact with people on the forum -- people who want to keep playing D&D.
Nor do I think there is a "moral" or ethical right to compensation. This site is not essential or necessary to playing the game. It is an add on, an addition, a sometimes useful, often annoying tool in a larger toolbox. Hell, they could just turn this place into a basic website with just offers to buy things through other places and shut down the piecemeal selections. That they don't -- that they have plans to work on making it more useful, is fine enough.
There is an ethical aspect involved, though: it is to be aware that they are in charge of their business, not us. They can listen, they can hear, but they still make the call. Not us.
As you pointed out, you won't be doing One D&D. That means this site will become even less valuable to you. Because it won't be for 5e anymore, it will be for whatever it turns out they actually call One D&D. That means the Player's handbook and DMG will go away as well, and everyone will have to buy them all over again...
... but only if they want to use this site.
So what you are really asking is "how much value does this site bring to you" -- and only you can answer that question. It has two things of value for me and I pay a lot yearly for it. But then, I also pay for two PS Plus subs and the last time I played my PS was last year, lol. And have you seen the crap that HBO has been dumping n their site? There is only one show I like watching on it regularly, and I keep finding it harder and harder to justify that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Only a DM since 1980 (3000 Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman
unless there is a total reimbursement for the total price of the legacy content removed then the loss of trust will be the deathknell for any future digital WotC and dnd beyond purchases
Unfortunately, Beardsinger is right that we aren't owed anything. When you buy access to books here, you do so willfully knowing (assuming you've bothered to read the info on what you're buying) that you are only paying to be able to view and use the material, and that you do not get it forever.
I personally would like DDB to, at a minimum, keep 5e content available for those who have purchased the ability to view, read, and use it, even if that content is marked as "Legacy". This would go a long way towards garnering good faith from us fans. With all that being said, Wizards of the Coast has the right to remove these books from those who have payed to view them, and that is both fair and just, even if it is annoying.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explainHERE.
The easiest thing for WotC to do is not remove legacy books. Just let the data sit on the servers.
Another option would be to give free PDF versions of the legacy books to DDB customers who paid for access to the online version. WotC sells PDFs of older edition books and even some 5e stuff.
Unfortunately, Beardsinger is right that we aren't owed anything. When you buy access to books here, you do so willfully knowing (assuming you've bothered to read the info on what you're buying) that you are only paying to be able to view and use the material, and that you do not get it forever.
I personally would like DDB to, at a minimum, keep 5e content available for those who have purchased the ability to view, read, and use it, even if that content is marked as "Legacy". This would go a long way towards garnering good faith from us fans. With all that being said, Wizards of the Coast has the right to remove these books from those who have paid to view them, and that is both fair and just, even if it is annoying.
I would love for them to keep all current and previous material available. OP didn't ask about that. I mean, they could have left it up -- MMOTM didn't replace all the material in the ones taken down, just a chunk of it and fixed some persistent issues. They also could have swapped out the problem bits for the new stuff in the digital format books.
But also, I would settle for Kindle style e-books, and would prefer that over print books, myself. I mean, that would really be my preferred format.
I mean, it was still like what, 60 bucks? Ain't chump change.
And I will not take the bait, even though it is really good bait and looks nice and juicy.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Only a DM since 1980 (3000 Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman
While Wizards is permitted to cancel your old purchases, I doubt they actually will, because it doesn't really cost them a lot to maintain, and it would irritate a lot of people. If they decide they want to remove the content from DDB, I expect they would go the same route as they've gone with previous edition content (available as PDF) and provide a way to convert your purchase to a pdf.
A problem they'll have to figure out at some point is how to deal with embedded monster tooltips -- they still point to the legacy versions of monsters by default, and just changing how that's handled will break old pages.
Unfortunately, Beardsinger is right that we aren't owed anything. When you buy access to books here, you do so willfully knowing (assuming you've bothered to read the info on what you're buying) that you are only paying to be able to view and use the material, and that you do not get it forever.
I personally would like DDB to, at a minimum, keep 5e content available for those who have purchased the ability to view, read, and use it, even if that content is marked as "Legacy". This would go a long way towards garnering good faith from us fans. With all that being said, Wizards of the Coast has the right to remove these books from those who have payed to view them, and that is both fair and just, even if it is annoying.
That is kind of bullshit and you know it, sure you can make a legal argument that they don't owe the consumer anything because they covered their arse in the TOS but it would not make it any less shitty if they decided to just get rid of content users paid for with no reimbursement, legal does not exactly mean it is moral or justified.
however, is moot. The links to actual content in the above are dead. It all goes to a “buy that thing you already have”.
You must not actually have it (or DDB is confused)
I got receipts, lol. DDB is confused, lol.
i would submit a CS ticket then. because if you bought them, you should still have access to them and any character sheet content will be marked with the Legacy tag. just to verify, i looked for my two books and they are still there and readable, also on my Android app. you may need to resync or have CS apply them back to your account
Please stay on topic. Discussions re: previously purchased content that is not showing up due to software compatibility or user error should go to whatever forum is for Bugs and Fixes. This thread is specifically for people to state what they think WotC should do to compensate player if the company decides to cut off "Legacy Content" from all those who purchased it via DDBeyond.
I know that if you have a "retired" feature on a character I have a character that is a Lore Master and i can still play and update the Character because the GM who owned the book at the time is shareing it and so I can still use it for now. i am unsure if i can create a NEW Lore Master Character but it is still "available" for now.
unless there is a total reimbursement for the total price of the legacy content removed then the loss of trust will be the deathknell for any future digital WotC and dnd beyond purchases
Totally agree. Not legally of course, but personally. I've spent Hundreds of dollars and that would become Not a penny more and I imagine there'd be a chunk of 'whales'/'collectors' who would feel similar.
I have purchased several online-only books from DDB website before one was marked as "Legacy Content" due to the release of Mordenkainen's Monsters of the Multiwhateverse and the marketing move that we are witnessing as WotC moves towards OneD&D (which I do not plan to play). While it is uncertain what will happen to Legacy Content once OneD&D is fully online, it's also clear that content purchased on DDB could well disappear since that is technically within the rights of WotC to erase/censor/disallow use of their own previously printed material.
I realize that WotC is a business. As such it's primary aim is to make money. However, it would be very unfair to its customers if it were to cut off access to Legacy Content purchased by customers with the understanding that such content would be accessible so long as DDB is maintained as a website.
Question is: What is a fair and just compensation to its customers if WotC does, in fact, decide to go through with shutting off access to its own e-books purchased on this website?
Nothing. You didn’t purchase the books, you purchased a limited license to view the books on dndbeyond for as long as they decide to leave them up. It’s in the small print. This is why many people have said buying online only access is a very bad thing for the consumer. You literally have no rights at all to any compensation.
Two sourcebooks I had vanished one morning from my app and the website. Fortunately, I had purchased the one that replaced them.
Also fortunately, I had them in hardcover. Indeed, I only have one book that is not in hardcover, and that is the Keys from the golden vault. I only have it digitally.
However...
I don't expect any compensation. These are not digital files I am purchasing to download onto my PC and save for my personal use. The "i bought a book, it is mine" thing hasn't been a rule since 2003 when the courts around the world basically said that wasn't a thing online. If you were buying a book, then you would have a file and you would be able to use that file without an internet connection and even be able to move it around to other systems and so forth.
I use a couple adobe products. I am well aware of how I don't own jack's best feature. Hell, Facebook is built on the model, lol.
to think that if you buy it here it is yours forever after is a really uninformed position and while it may be common or even typical, that doesn't make it a good one or reasonable one.
My answer is "the ability to keep using the site" as a whole. I use the site so I can reference things while I set up my House Rules in a fixed format, develop the campaigns, and then to interact with people on the forum -- people who want to keep playing D&D.
Nor do I think there is a "moral" or ethical right to compensation. This site is not essential or necessary to playing the game. It is an add on, an addition, a sometimes useful, often annoying tool in a larger toolbox. Hell, they could just turn this place into a basic website with just offers to buy things through other places and shut down the piecemeal selections. That they don't -- that they have plans to work on making it more useful, is fine enough.
There is an ethical aspect involved, though: it is to be aware that they are in charge of their business, not us. They can listen, they can hear, but they still make the call. Not us.
As you pointed out, you won't be doing One D&D. That means this site will become even less valuable to you. Because it won't be for 5e anymore, it will be for whatever it turns out they actually call One D&D. That means the Player's handbook and DMG will go away as well, and everyone will have to buy them all over again...
... but only if they want to use this site.
So what you are really asking is "how much value does this site bring to you" -- and only you can answer that question. It has two things of value for me and I pay a lot yearly for it. But then, I also pay for two PS Plus subs and the last time I played my PS was last year, lol. And have you seen the crap that HBO has been dumping n their site? There is only one show I like watching on it regularly, and I keep finding it harder and harder to justify that.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000 Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman
Wyrlde.com
.-=] Lore Book | Ruleset | PC Book [=-.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
unless there is a total reimbursement for the total price of the legacy content removed then the loss of trust will be the deathknell for any future digital WotC and dnd beyond purchases
Unfortunately, Beardsinger is right that we aren't owed anything. When you buy access to books here, you do so willfully knowing (assuming you've bothered to read the info on what you're buying) that you are only paying to be able to view and use the material, and that you do not get it forever.
I personally would like DDB to, at a minimum, keep 5e content available for those who have purchased the ability to view, read, and use it, even if that content is marked as "Legacy". This would go a long way towards garnering good faith from us fans. With all that being said, Wizards of the Coast has the right to remove these books from those who have payed to view them, and that is both fair and just, even if it is annoying.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.The easiest thing for WotC to do is not remove legacy books. Just let the data sit on the servers.
Another option would be to give free PDF versions of the legacy books to DDB customers who paid for access to the online version. WotC sells PDFs of older edition books and even some 5e stuff.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/44/Wizards-of-the-Coast/subcategory/9730_19827/DD-5th-Edition
I would love for them to keep all current and previous material available. OP didn't ask about that. I mean, they could have left it up -- MMOTM didn't replace all the material in the ones taken down, just a chunk of it and fixed some persistent issues. They also could have swapped out the problem bits for the new stuff in the digital format books.
But also, I would settle for Kindle style e-books, and would prefer that over print books, myself. I mean, that would really be my preferred format.
I mean, it was still like what, 60 bucks? Ain't chump change.
And I will not take the bait, even though it is really good bait and looks nice and juicy.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000 Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman
Wyrlde.com
.-=] Lore Book | Ruleset | PC Book [=-.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
MToF and VGtM are no longer available for sale but if you previously purchased them they're still on the sources page.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/mtof
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/vgtm
You can still look at them or use their content.
While Wizards is permitted to cancel your old purchases, I doubt they actually will, because it doesn't really cost them a lot to maintain, and it would irritate a lot of people. If they decide they want to remove the content from DDB, I expect they would go the same route as they've gone with previous edition content (available as PDF) and provide a way to convert your purchase to a pdf.
Ha!
Teach me to suck eggs! I only now noticed that the drop down when you hover is "featured", not "all". Thank you!
They are not, however, available in my app, which is disappointing, but I will live with it.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000 Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman
Wyrlde.com
.-=] Lore Book | Ruleset | PC Book [=-.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
A problem they'll have to figure out at some point is how to deal with embedded monster tooltips -- they still point to the legacy versions of monsters by default, and just changing how that's handled will break old pages.
That is kind of bullshit and you know it, sure you can make a legal argument that they don't owe the consumer anything because they covered their arse in the TOS but it would not make it any less shitty if they decided to just get rid of content users paid for with no reimbursement, legal does not exactly mean it is moral or justified.
Hmm, I still have them on the app (Android version). Maybe there's a trick to download them.
maybe, since I am iOS.
however, is moot. The links to actual content in the above are dead. It all goes to a “buy that thing you already have”.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000 Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman
Wyrlde.com
.-=] Lore Book | Ruleset | PC Book [=-.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
You must not actually have it (or DDB is confused)
I got receipts, lol. DDB is confused, lol.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000 Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman
Wyrlde.com
.-=] Lore Book | Ruleset | PC Book [=-.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
i would submit a CS ticket then. because if you bought them, you should still have access to them and any character sheet content will be marked with the Legacy tag. just to verify, i looked for my two books and they are still there and readable, also on my Android app. you may need to resync or have CS apply them back to your account
Please stay on topic. Discussions re: previously purchased content that is not showing up due to software compatibility or user error should go to whatever forum is for Bugs and Fixes. This thread is specifically for people to state what they think WotC should do to compensate player if the company decides to cut off "Legacy Content" from all those who purchased it via DDBeyond.
I know that if you have a "retired" feature on a character I have a character that is a Lore Master and i can still play and update the Character because the GM who owned the book at the time is shareing it and so I can still use it for now. i am unsure if i can create a NEW Lore Master Character but it is still "available" for now.
Totally agree. Not legally of course, but personally. I've spent Hundreds of dollars and that would become Not a penny more and I imagine there'd be a chunk of 'whales'/'collectors' who would feel similar.