The clear example is a paladin of the oath of revenge that I have, who achieved his goal, but between me and the DM, there were great doubts regarding what would happen nexthttps://1921681254.mx/https://100001****/, would he continue to be part of that oath or would he change?
I think a Paladin never really completes their oath, The text of a vengence paladin says
"The Oath of Vengeance is a solemn commitment to punish those who have committed a grievous sin. When evil forces slaughter helpless villagers, when an entire people turns against the will of the gods, when a thieves’ guild grows too violent and powerful, when a dragon rampages through the countryside — at times like these, paladins arise and swear an Oath of Vengeance to set right that which has gone wrong. To these paladins — sometimes called avengers or dark knights — their own purity is not as important as delivering justice."
and the tenants are:
Fight the Greater Evil. Faced with a choice of fighting my sworn foes or combating a lesser evil, I choose the greater evil.
No Mercy for the Wicked. Ordinary foes might win my mercy, but my sworn enemies do not.
By Any Means Necessary. My qualms can’t get in the way of exterminating my foes.
Restitution. If my foes wreak ruin on the world, it is because I failed to stop them. I must help those harmed by their misdeeds.
So while the palidin might have risen up against a particular evil force I see once a Paladin has defeated that force they are always seeking out evil in order to eradicate it. If all evil has been eradicated I would suggest the campaign is over.
The Oath of Vengeance is an interesting one in that the flavour does suggest that it's against a specific target (which can be an organisation or group), so there is the question when there are no valid targets left.
I'd have the player spend some time pondering the character and where they're at. They could generalise and become about just avenging the wrongdoings in the world. Or they could change subclass to reflect the new mentality now their vengeance is complete - for example, perhaps they see the error of their ways now that the spirit of hate and vengeance has left them, and take an Oath of Redemption. Or perhaps they revert to serving the nation with an Oath of the Crown.
Generally, the Oath of Vengeance would ideally be centred on the BBEG so that it completes when the campaign ends, which avoids this issue while giving a higher sense of satisfaction.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I think if you're the sort of person to swear an oath of vengeance so sincere and committal that it gives you magic powers, you're never really going to be finished. You probably spend the rest of your days searching for loose ends, or trying to ensure such crimes never happen again. Maybe you find something else to be vengeful about, or become a sort of avatar for the concept of vengeance in general. A hand to enact revenge for those who can't do it themselves.
Edit: Because the afterlife is canon in nearly every D&D setting, your vengeance might very well take you beyond the realms of the living. You might spend your days preparing for your death and subsequent journey to the afterlife of your target. I'm really amused right now by the idea of a Paladin changing his entire life in order to get into whatever afterlife his target went to, so he can kill them again or something.
To me, there’s a few ways to play it. He could retire.
He could do as the above posters say, and keep going. Probably over the course of the campaign, there’s been plenty of new people who’ve incurred his wrath, or people to help.
He could change subclasses. Maybe he regrets the lengths he went to and switches to redemption. Or he’s found something worth defending, and switches to crown or ancients. Or there’s been a planar incursion over the campaign, and he switches to watchers. There’s probably a campaign-dependent reason to change to almost any oath.
I think there's a misreading of what a Paladin Oath, or at least the Oath of Vengeance, is in the OP's DM/player dynamic.
All the Oaths are Oaths to ideals, even The Crown, not particular figures (so the Oath of the Ancients isn't like a patron). The Oath of Vengeance is not an oath to see a particular injustice or victim avenged. It's an Oath to carry on the perpetual need for vengeance and avenging. You take down one baddie, there are many others in the world, you keep on going finding wrongs to right in service of your Oath. In other words, the template of the Oath of Vengeance operation isn't Inigo Montoya, who after killing the man who killed his father can now consider piracy; but Batman or The Equalizer or maybe Ghost Rider. The Oath isn't a vow to see a specific act done, it's a vow of lifelong servitude to an ideal (though vengeance is sort of an anti-ideal arguably).
I'd also say the existence of a Paladin, stereotypically at least, is perpetually in compliance with their Oath. Paladining ain't a job, it's a lifestyle. An Oath isn't a contract that's ever fulfilled, but a perpetual lifelong obligation to maintain.
That said, if you are insisting on the Oath of Vengeance having been fulfilled, have you considered piracy?
…In other words, the template of the Oath of Vengeance operation isn't Iago Montoya, who after killing the man who killed his father can now consider piracy…
…In other words, the template of the Oath of Vengeance operation isn't Iago Montoya, who after killing the man who killed his father can now consider piracy…
Inigo.
Whoops, fixed.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
…In other words, the template of the Oath of Vengeance operation isn't Iago Montoya, who after killing the man who killed his father can now consider piracy…
Inigo.
Whoops, fixed.
I appreciate that. Ya’know, he’s my favorite character from one of my top 3 favorite movies of all time.
The clear example is a paladin of the oath of revenge that I have, who achieved his goal, but between me and the DM, there were great doubts regarding what would happen next https://1921681254.mx/ https://100001****/ , would he continue to be part of that oath or would he change?
I think a Paladin never really completes their oath, The text of a vengence paladin says
"The Oath of Vengeance is a solemn commitment to punish those who have committed a grievous sin. When evil forces slaughter helpless villagers, when an entire people turns against the will of the gods, when a thieves’ guild grows too violent and powerful, when a dragon rampages through the countryside — at times like these, paladins arise and swear an Oath of Vengeance to set right that which has gone wrong. To these paladins — sometimes called avengers or dark knights — their own purity is not as important as delivering justice."
and the tenants are:
So while the palidin might have risen up against a particular evil force I see once a Paladin has defeated that force they are always seeking out evil in order to eradicate it. If all evil has been eradicated I would suggest the campaign is over.
The Oath of Vengeance is an interesting one in that the flavour does suggest that it's against a specific target (which can be an organisation or group), so there is the question when there are no valid targets left.
I'd have the player spend some time pondering the character and where they're at. They could generalise and become about just avenging the wrongdoings in the world. Or they could change subclass to reflect the new mentality now their vengeance is complete - for example, perhaps they see the error of their ways now that the spirit of hate and vengeance has left them, and take an Oath of Redemption. Or perhaps they revert to serving the nation with an Oath of the Crown.
Generally, the Oath of Vengeance would ideally be centred on the BBEG so that it completes when the campaign ends, which avoids this issue while giving a higher sense of satisfaction.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I think if you're the sort of person to swear an oath of vengeance so sincere and committal that it gives you magic powers, you're never really going to be finished. You probably spend the rest of your days searching for loose ends, or trying to ensure such crimes never happen again. Maybe you find something else to be vengeful about, or become a sort of avatar for the concept of vengeance in general. A hand to enact revenge for those who can't do it themselves.
Edit: Because the afterlife is canon in nearly every D&D setting, your vengeance might very well take you beyond the realms of the living. You might spend your days preparing for your death and subsequent journey to the afterlife of your target. I'm really amused right now by the idea of a Paladin changing his entire life in order to get into whatever afterlife his target went to, so he can kill them again or something.
To me, there’s a few ways to play it.
He could retire.
He could do as the above posters say, and keep going. Probably over the course of the campaign, there’s been plenty of new people who’ve incurred his wrath, or people to help.
He could change subclasses. Maybe he regrets the lengths he went to and switches to redemption. Or he’s found something worth defending, and switches to crown or ancients. Or there’s been a planar incursion over the campaign, and he switches to watchers. There’s probably a campaign-dependent reason to change to almost any oath.
I think there's a misreading of what a Paladin Oath, or at least the Oath of Vengeance, is in the OP's DM/player dynamic.
All the Oaths are Oaths to ideals, even The Crown, not particular figures (so the Oath of the Ancients isn't like a patron). The Oath of Vengeance is not an oath to see a particular injustice or victim avenged. It's an Oath to carry on the perpetual need for vengeance and avenging. You take down one baddie, there are many others in the world, you keep on going finding wrongs to right in service of your Oath. In other words, the template of the Oath of Vengeance operation isn't Inigo Montoya, who after killing the man who killed his father can now consider piracy; but Batman or The Equalizer or maybe Ghost Rider. The Oath isn't a vow to see a specific act done, it's a vow of lifelong servitude to an ideal (though vengeance is sort of an anti-ideal arguably).
I'd also say the existence of a Paladin, stereotypically at least, is perpetually in compliance with their Oath. Paladining ain't a job, it's a lifestyle. An Oath isn't a contract that's ever fulfilled, but a perpetual lifelong obligation to maintain.
That said, if you are insisting on the Oath of Vengeance having been fulfilled, have you considered piracy?
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Inigo.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
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Whoops, fixed.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I appreciate that. Ya’know, he’s my favorite character from one of my top 3 favorite movies of all time.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting