It was mercifully short compared to those I have taken in the past. Thumbs up.
You must have given the "wrong" answers. I was there for ages filling it out, and even then it skipped 40% when I gave them an answer that clearly meant they didn't want to hear more from me.
To be honest, it was rude. It repeated massive sections of the survey, wasting a lot of my time answering the same questions over and over. No respect for my time that I'm donating to help them out.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
To be honest, it was rude. It repeated massive sections of the survey, wasting a lot of my time answering the same questions over and over. No respect for my time that I'm donating to help them out.
This is a normal way to get accurate information. Asking the same question different ways helps better calibrate a person's feelings about a given topic and also filters out folks who don't read the questions and just toss in rote answers.
I took the survey and it was only long because there were obvious questions at the head of each section asking if you wanted to give info about a given topic. If you clicked "no," then it skips that section. Overall, it wasn't the most in-depth survey, mostly caring about purchasing and usage statistics. There were only a couple places to leave text feedback, and the feedback I did leave in that regard mostly amounted to "Look guys, your game is good. Just please stop shooting yourselves in the feet and tripping over your own *****. Maybe see if you can get through a financial quarter without causing some sort of unforced uproar."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
It was mercifully short compared to those I have taken in the past. Thumbs up.
You must have given the "wrong" answers. I was there for ages filling it out, and even then it skipped 40% when I gave them an answer that clearly meant they didn't want to hear more from me.
To be honest, it was rude. It repeated massive sections of the survey, wasting a lot of my time answering the same questions over and over. No respect for my time that I'm donating to help them out.
People make this same complaint every single time a survey is done. It is not exactly a fair complaint.
When conducting data collection, accuracy is your primary goal. You can rincrease your chance of accurate results by asking similar questions with nuanced differences or by asking the same question in a slightly different way, seeing if it changes the answer. The survey primarily did the first option - there were questions which were very similar, but sought different, related pieces of information.
Regarding the survey skipping, the percentage at the bottom is how much of the total survey you have completed. Some elements of the survey are dependant on other elements—if, for example, you write that you never purchased anything for 5e, it will jump drastically ahead because it is not going to waste your time asking questions not applicable to your situation and instead might as a different set of questions. It is not so much you gave a “wrong” answer—it is the survey being set up in a way that respects the person taking the survey and automatically fills out “not applicable” rather than have you click a “not applicable” button a few dozen times.
I got the impression it was mostly the same one I've taken at least a couple times already. Some additional questions and some removed, but the majority of it was the same questions I answered before - which is good for tracking trends over time. (And it was long for me since I didn't choose to skip any sections.)
I also didn't see any repeating of questions. Just some clarifying questions - like when you rate a bunch of things on how important they are, and then it took the top 5 and asked to rank them in order of preference. Also some questions that were worded very similarly but with key differences about what the question was over (like what you've purchased vs what you've played). So if you're just skimming and miss some different wording, I can see it seeming repetitive.
But all of it was standard stuff for a well designed survey.
Edit for clarification: Are people talking about the player survey along the top banner, or the UA Playtest 7 survey? I thought this meant the player survey from the top banner especially since my interest in the UA Playtest stuff fizzled out a while ago so I forgot that was going on right now, too. I don't think I've completed a UA Playtest survey since the 1st or 2nd one, so I didn't even think people might be talking about that!
What I find very interesting is the time-lines. Talk to anyone in publishing, and this new edition is going to have a hard time being released in 2024. It might make it for Xmas sales 2024, but that is pushing it. By that I mean hard copies. But imagine the cries of outrage if the hard copy differs significantly from the soft copies. (yes, yes, there will be fixes) . This is the SEVENTH attempt at crowd-sourcing for this.
Let's assume this is the last attempt. The survey runs until early Oct. Then the survey results have to be analyzed, and any MORE changes from that analysis done to the material. Then those changes have to be play-tested internally by wotc. That means many more weeks post Oct survey date. THEN, once those changes are made, the copy has to be set, proofed, and finally sent to a printer. Ask anyone who gets books printed what the lead time is on getting a book into print and then through the logistics chain. We are talking minimum 9 months.
The one fellow from Roll For Combat You Tube channel used to work for Pathfinder and now creates content for Pathfinder and 5e. He has books printed that are hundreds of pages thick, and is intimately involved with the entire print logistics chain. He stated that the one thing a publisher has to do is to register the name of a new book a minimum of 9 months with the distribution system. Has wotc done that yet? They had not as per a month ago.
Edit: Oh and from the FAQ:
How long will the 2024 core rulebooks be in playtesting?
We expect playtests to continue through at least the end of 2023. How long it ultimately lasts will depend on what we hear from you.
It was mercifully short compared to those I have taken in the past. Thumbs up.
You must have given the "wrong" answers. I was there for ages filling it out, and even then it skipped 40% when I gave them an answer that clearly meant they didn't want to hear more from me.
To be honest, it was rude. It repeated massive sections of the survey, wasting a lot of my time answering the same questions over and over. No respect for my time that I'm donating to help them out.
Likely true. It seemed focused on physical products and accessories, which I do not usually buy.
I was asked if I'd bought a bunch of books (the same ones, Strahd, Strixthaven, core rules and a few others). It stuck out to me because it asked about each of the core rule books separately then asked about the box set, so I wasn't sure if it meant to be asking if I'd bought them separately or as a box set, or if I was meant to be answering yes to them all. It then repeated all the questions. It asked me about something else, then came back and asked me what I'd purchased a third time, before asking my opinions on them. It also did a similar thing with the extra stuff (eg, did I buy the Rime of the Frostmaiden dice set), except it only asked me twice for those. So no,. it's not about getting different angles. I've either bought them or I haven't. That's not going to have changed during the course of filling out the survey.
And no, it's not normal. I fill out surveys like this reasonably frequently. I only ever have to fill out entire segments of surveys here on DDB, elsewhere there'll be the odd question repeated but that's it. Not only that, but it's every time with DDB surveys.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
It was mercifully short compared to those I have taken in the past. Thumbs up.
You must have given the "wrong" answers. I was there for ages filling it out, and even then it skipped 40% when I gave them an answer that clearly meant they didn't want to hear more from me.
To be honest, it was rude. It repeated massive sections of the survey, wasting a lot of my time answering the same questions over and over. No respect for my time that I'm donating to help them out.
Likely true. It seemed focused on physical products and accessories, which I do not usually buy.
Yeah, probably don't need your answers. I imagine that my answers meant they didn't need mine, for whatever reason.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
It was a fine survey. Whenever I get to say, "Hey I love Birthright" I'm a happy old man.
I do marketing work, etc. IRL and the questions and format were solid. Yes, there are some repetitive questions, but that's the goal. Good data that's usable for actionable insights.
An open text field is an abyss. We have the forums to throw down our most articulate thoughts about what we care about - the survey is WotC trying to understand how we relate to what they care about. It's a good path to course correction if the data has any shockers.
I loved the survey. While I'm no dabbler in the dark arts of marketing, it looked very crisp and thought through. I didn't feel like I was repeating myself and I saw how each question directly helps WotC make a better game (in theory at least).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM for life by choice, biggest fan of D&D specifically.
Edit for clarification: Are people talking about the player survey along the top banner, or the UA Playtest 7 survey? I thought this meant the player survey from the top banner especially since my interest in the UA Playtest stuff fizzled out a while ago so I forgot that was going on right now, too. I don't think I've completed a UA Playtest survey since the 1st or 2nd one, so I didn't even think people might be talking about that!
I was referring to the player survey. Changed the title to reflect this. Thank you.
As to the different length surveys and redundant questions:
I was present while a friend I play in a couple of groups with took the survey and their survey was way shorter than mine. They still use the dice sets I gave them when they started playing 5e with me several years back. They spend $0 on D&D. Great time playing with them, they always contribute to snacks and help set up for the game tables chairs ... they just do not buy anything to play the game. I plan to ask why they sped so little on the game as I know they enjoy it, from what I know from past conversations with them spending a few hundred dollars on recreation is within their means and I think we are good enough friends that the question would be ok to ask and I am now curious.
Myself on the other hand have spent a fair amount on D&D both here on DDB and elsewhere, on official and 3rd party physical/digital books, and accessories for IRL at the table games. My survey was a lot longer than theirs, and I was asked if I wanted to answer questions about different things related to all types of purchases related to D&D. I answered all of the questions.
The survey as I experienced it was a lot less frustrating than the last couple I took from the company, and while not short I was left with the feeling it was better thought out, and gathering information rather than looking for a specific result. That may be do to several factors like I was the type of player this survey was looking for answers from, the questions appealed to me more than previous surveys, etc.
I did not get the same questions asked over and over again with possible answers changed to narrow my choices.
I did not feel railroaded as I have in previous surveys taken.
It was ok, although it focused a lot on the last 12 months and anyone who purchased content as it came out probably didn't spend much in the last year. The only thing I bought in the last year was the DnD Beyond sub which won't renew again after the OGL debacle.
One thing that I found annoying was that it treated DnD as the only tabletop game when asking about when you started various things. I played other games for a decade prior!
At least it didn't pretend that 3rd party content doesn't exist.
I was asked if I'd bought a bunch of books (the same ones, Strahd, Strixthaven, core rules and a few others). It stuck out to me because it asked about each of the core rule books separately then asked about the box set, so I wasn't sure if it meant to be asking if I'd bought them separately or as a box set, or if I was meant to be answering yes to them all. It then repeated all the questions. It asked me about something else, then came back and asked me what I'd purchased a third time, before asking my opinions on them. It also did a similar thing with the extra stuff (eg, did I buy the Rime of the Frostmaiden dice set), except it only asked me twice for those. So no,. it's not about getting different angles. I've either bought them or I haven't. That's not going to have changed during the course of filling out the survey.
And no, it's not normal. I fill out surveys like this reasonably frequently. I only ever have to fill out entire segments of surveys here on DDB, elsewhere there'll be the odd question repeated but that's it. Not only that, but it's every time with DDB surveys.
I remember that part of the survey. The first set of questions was about purchases. The second was about usage. You could have purchased items and not used them (because you gave them away as gifts or are just looking for shelf pieces instead of game pieces).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
It was ok, although it focused a lot on the last 12 months and anyone who purchased content as it came out probably didn't spend much in the last year. The only thing I bought in the last year was the DnD Beyond sub which won't renew again after the OGL debacle.
One thing that I found annoying was that it treated DnD as the only tabletop game when asking about when you started various things. I played other games for a decade prior!
At least it didn't pretend that 3rd party content doesn't exist.
I was asked about lots of other ttrpg's and video games, I do not play many video games and most are very old (NES, PS1...) though I did see a coupe of newer games I play very rarely on the options.
As for the last 12 months I remember those questions for both purchases, and play time for both D&D and other ttrpg's and video games.
I got the feeling from my survey that they were looking for recent time spent on ttrpg's vs video games, and how much recent time was spent on what ttrpg's and what video games.
I have not played the new BG3, and have no plans to, though I have heard many great things about it from players in my D&D games.
What I find very interesting is the time-lines. Talk to anyone in publishing, and this new edition is going to have a hard time being released in 2024. It might make it for Xmas sales 2024, but that is pushing it. By that I mean hard copies. But imagine the cries of outrage if the hard copy differs significantly from the soft copies. (yes, yes, there will be fixes) . This is the SEVENTH attempt at crowd-sourcing for this.
Let's assume this is the last attempt. The survey runs until early Oct. Then the survey results have to be analyzed, and any MORE changes from that analysis done to the material. Then those changes have to be play-tested internally by wotc. That means many more weeks post Oct survey date. THEN, once those changes are made, the copy has to be set, proofed, and finally sent to a printer. Ask anyone who gets books printed what the lead time is on getting a book into print and then through the logistics chain. We are talking minimum 9 months.
The one fellow from Roll For Combat You Tube channel used to work for Pathfinder and now creates content for Pathfinder and 5e. He has books printed that are hundreds of pages thick, and is intimately involved with the entire print logistics chain. He stated that the one thing a publisher has to do is to register the name of a new book a minimum of 9 months with the distribution system. Has wotc done that yet? They had not as per a month ago.
Edit: Oh and from the FAQ:
How long will the 2024 core rulebooks be in playtesting?
We expect playtests to continue through at least the end of 2023. How long it ultimately lasts will depend on what we hear from you.
There are two basic possibilities:
Most of the work is done and the surveys are mostly for PR and tweaking rules, not making large changes. They can be published on time because the playtests aren't going to be as influential as they're making them sound.
Publication will be delayed and slower than expected. I believe they've already said that they won't be publishing the PHB, DMG, and MM simultaneously, but they'll be staggered, both for editing and the time needed to actually create and ship the books.
Option feels really cynical and doesn't seem to jibe with how the playtesting is going....but 2024 now feels like an unrealistic date, even late in the year, given that there are likely at least two more playtest packets coming out.
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I thought it was a lot better than the previous surveys I have filled out for D&D.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
It was mercifully short compared to those I have taken in the past. Thumbs up.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock
Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
Check out my life-changing
You must have given the "wrong" answers. I was there for ages filling it out, and even then it skipped 40% when I gave them an answer that clearly meant they didn't want to hear more from me.
To be honest, it was rude. It repeated massive sections of the survey, wasting a lot of my time answering the same questions over and over. No respect for my time that I'm donating to help them out.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
This is a normal way to get accurate information. Asking the same question different ways helps better calibrate a person's feelings about a given topic and also filters out folks who don't read the questions and just toss in rote answers.
I took the survey and it was only long because there were obvious questions at the head of each section asking if you wanted to give info about a given topic. If you clicked "no," then it skips that section. Overall, it wasn't the most in-depth survey, mostly caring about purchasing and usage statistics. There were only a couple places to leave text feedback, and the feedback I did leave in that regard mostly amounted to "Look guys, your game is good. Just please stop shooting yourselves in the feet and tripping over your own *****. Maybe see if you can get through a financial quarter without causing some sort of unforced uproar."
People make this same complaint every single time a survey is done. It is not exactly a fair complaint.
When conducting data collection, accuracy is your primary goal. You can rincrease your chance of accurate results by asking similar questions with nuanced differences or by asking the same question in a slightly different way, seeing if it changes the answer. The survey primarily did the first option - there were questions which were very similar, but sought different, related pieces of information.
Regarding the survey skipping, the percentage at the bottom is how much of the total survey you have completed. Some elements of the survey are dependant on other elements—if, for example, you write that you never purchased anything for 5e, it will jump drastically ahead because it is not going to waste your time asking questions not applicable to your situation and instead might as a different set of questions. It is not so much you gave a “wrong” answer—it is the survey being set up in a way that respects the person taking the survey and automatically fills out “not applicable” rather than have you click a “not applicable” button a few dozen times.
I got the impression it was mostly the same one I've taken at least a couple times already. Some additional questions and some removed, but the majority of it was the same questions I answered before - which is good for tracking trends over time. (And it was long for me since I didn't choose to skip any sections.)
I also didn't see any repeating of questions. Just some clarifying questions - like when you rate a bunch of things on how important they are, and then it took the top 5 and asked to rank them in order of preference. Also some questions that were worded very similarly but with key differences about what the question was over (like what you've purchased vs what you've played). So if you're just skimming and miss some different wording, I can see it seeming repetitive.
But all of it was standard stuff for a well designed survey.
Edit for clarification: Are people talking about the player survey along the top banner, or the UA Playtest 7 survey? I thought this meant the player survey from the top banner especially since my interest in the UA Playtest stuff fizzled out a while ago so I forgot that was going on right now, too. I don't think I've completed a UA Playtest survey since the 1st or 2nd one, so I didn't even think people might be talking about that!
I did what I could to fill it out. Old farts got a little representation, through me.
What I find very interesting is the time-lines. Talk to anyone in publishing, and this new edition is going to have a hard time being released in 2024. It might make it for Xmas sales 2024, but that is pushing it. By that I mean hard copies. But imagine the cries of outrage if the hard copy differs significantly from the soft copies. (yes, yes, there will be fixes) . This is the SEVENTH attempt at crowd-sourcing for this.
Let's assume this is the last attempt. The survey runs until early Oct. Then the survey results have to be analyzed, and any MORE changes from that analysis done to the material. Then those changes have to be play-tested internally by wotc. That means many more weeks post Oct survey date. THEN, once those changes are made, the copy has to be set, proofed, and finally sent to a printer. Ask anyone who gets books printed what the lead time is on getting a book into print and then through the logistics chain. We are talking minimum 9 months.
The one fellow from Roll For Combat You Tube channel used to work for Pathfinder and now creates content for Pathfinder and 5e. He has books printed that are hundreds of pages thick, and is intimately involved with the entire print logistics chain. He stated that the one thing a publisher has to do is to register the name of a new book a minimum of 9 months with the distribution system. Has wotc done that yet? They had not as per a month ago.
Edit: Oh and from the FAQ:
How long will the 2024 core rulebooks be in playtesting?
We expect playtests to continue through at least the end of 2023. How long it ultimately lasts will depend on what we hear from you.
Likely true. It seemed focused on physical products and accessories, which I do not usually buy.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock
Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
Check out my life-changing
I was asked if I'd bought a bunch of books (the same ones, Strahd, Strixthaven, core rules and a few others). It stuck out to me because it asked about each of the core rule books separately then asked about the box set, so I wasn't sure if it meant to be asking if I'd bought them separately or as a box set, or if I was meant to be answering yes to them all. It then repeated all the questions. It asked me about something else, then came back and asked me what I'd purchased a third time, before asking my opinions on them. It also did a similar thing with the extra stuff (eg, did I buy the Rime of the Frostmaiden dice set), except it only asked me twice for those. So no,. it's not about getting different angles. I've either bought them or I haven't. That's not going to have changed during the course of filling out the survey.
And no, it's not normal. I fill out surveys like this reasonably frequently. I only ever have to fill out entire segments of surveys here on DDB, elsewhere there'll be the odd question repeated but that's it. Not only that, but it's every time with DDB surveys.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Yeah, probably don't need your answers. I imagine that my answers meant they didn't need mine, for whatever reason.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
It was a fine survey. Whenever I get to say, "Hey I love Birthright" I'm a happy old man.
I do marketing work, etc. IRL and the questions and format were solid. Yes, there are some repetitive questions, but that's the goal. Good data that's usable for actionable insights.
An open text field is an abyss. We have the forums to throw down our most articulate thoughts about what we care about - the survey is WotC trying to understand how we relate to what they care about. It's a good path to course correction if the data has any shockers.
I loved the survey. While I'm no dabbler in the dark arts of marketing, it looked very crisp and thought through. I didn't feel like I was repeating myself and I saw how each question directly helps WotC make a better game (in theory at least).
DM for life by choice, biggest fan of D&D specifically.
I was referring to the player survey. Changed the title to reflect this. Thank you.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
Thanks for all of the replies!
As to the different length surveys and redundant questions:
I was present while a friend I play in a couple of groups with took the survey and their survey was way shorter than mine. They still use the dice sets I gave them when they started playing 5e with me several years back. They spend $0 on D&D. Great time playing with them, they always contribute to snacks and help set up for the game tables chairs ... they just do not buy anything to play the game. I plan to ask why they sped so little on the game as I know they enjoy it, from what I know from past conversations with them spending a few hundred dollars on recreation is within their means and I think we are good enough friends that the question would be ok to ask and I am now curious.
Myself on the other hand have spent a fair amount on D&D both here on DDB and elsewhere, on official and 3rd party physical/digital books, and accessories for IRL at the table games. My survey was a lot longer than theirs, and I was asked if I wanted to answer questions about different things related to all types of purchases related to D&D. I answered all of the questions.
The survey as I experienced it was a lot less frustrating than the last couple I took from the company, and while not short I was left with the feeling it was better thought out, and gathering information rather than looking for a specific result. That may be do to several factors like I was the type of player this survey was looking for answers from, the questions appealed to me more than previous surveys, etc.
I did not get the same questions asked over and over again with possible answers changed to narrow my choices.
I did not feel railroaded as I have in previous surveys taken.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
It was ok, although it focused a lot on the last 12 months and anyone who purchased content as it came out probably didn't spend much in the last year. The only thing I bought in the last year was the DnD Beyond sub which won't renew again after the OGL debacle.
One thing that I found annoying was that it treated DnD as the only tabletop game when asking about when you started various things. I played other games for a decade prior!
At least it didn't pretend that 3rd party content doesn't exist.
I remember that part of the survey. The first set of questions was about purchases. The second was about usage. You could have purchased items and not used them (because you gave them away as gifts or are just looking for shelf pieces instead of game pieces).
I was asked about lots of other ttrpg's and video games, I do not play many video games and most are very old (NES, PS1...) though I did see a coupe of newer games I play very rarely on the options.
As for the last 12 months I remember those questions for both purchases, and play time for both D&D and other ttrpg's and video games.
I got the feeling from my survey that they were looking for recent time spent on ttrpg's vs video games, and how much recent time was spent on what ttrpg's and what video games.
I have not played the new BG3, and have no plans to, though I have heard many great things about it from players in my D&D games.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
Glad to see at least one other person gave Birthright a shoutout!
There are two basic possibilities:
Option feels really cynical and doesn't seem to jibe with how the playtesting is going....but 2024 now feels like an unrealistic date, even late in the year, given that there are likely at least two more playtest packets coming out.