Except they DIDN'T add to what was in tasha's they took away from what was in tasha's they took away the option to mix and match from 2014, they took away primal awareness spells. they took away the better level 20 feature, they took away the number of uses of several of the tasha's abilities, they pushed a level 10 ability back to level 14. The only thing they added was expertise and weapon mastery after they took away much more than they gave.
"Mix and match" what exactly, the crappy 2014 ribbons? Simply by granting Expertise Tasha's beat all of them, and 2024 tripled that. Replacing Proficiency Bonus with Wis bonus is a buff until level 5 then a wash until level 9, then a wash again at 12 and then most campaigns are over. The ability they pushed back to 14 got buffed significantly. "They took away much more than they gave" is just wrong unless you weren't using spellcasting on your Ranger at all, in which case your opinion of the class isn't exactly valid.
This is just outright false. Remember that tasha's still had deft explorer to give expertise. so getting expertise at 9 is only 2 more not 3 more expertise. Second The new Hunter's mark ability is just as ribbon as the only favored enemy at the higher levels, again the level 20 ability is better anyway. And as far as wisdom modifier being better. If you got your wisdom to 16 in the starting levels than yes it is better till 5 in which it is even. It is worse at level 9 unless you are Taking ASI instead of feats, which if you are optimizing you are taking feats not an ASI which means it is behind from level 9 and onward. You completely ignored the fact that they took AWAY primal awareness from tasha's which GRANTED more spells which means the Ranger spell casting got WORSE from tasha's to 2024.
So you got a small skill buff by getting expertise in 2 more skills instead of advantage on recalling information about specific enemies. You got LESS spells and you got LESS uses of your Ranger abilities AND some of the new ranger abilities got pushed back later and you got a worse level 20 ability. All in favor of giving you Hunter's Mark which was a bad spell to use your concentration on anyway. You got multiple nerfs and 1 tiny buff.
Except they DIDN'T add to what was in tasha's they took away from what was in tasha's they took away the option to mix and match from 2014, they took away primal awareness spells. they took away the better level 20 feature, they took away the number of uses of several of the tasha's abilities, they pushed a level 10 ability back to level 14. The only thing they added was expertise and weapon mastery after they took away much more than they gave.
I'll grant you the new capstone is pretty underwhelming, but it is on average better than the old one. Bear in mind that advantage against your Hunter's Mark target roughly doubles your crit rate; combining that with the larger damage die at level 20 will result in slightly higher average damage than the old Foe Slayer for most Rangers. Your other points have been largely addressed elsewhere in the thread but to be honest, if you really want to play a Tasha's Ranger with Weapon Mastery, I'm sure you could convince a DM to let you do that. I personally do not think that character will keep up with a 2024 Ranger in most contexts, but you seem to disagree and the option is available to you.
The fact that seems to be getting forgotten here is you are using your concentration on hunter's mark to activate your level 20 feature in 2024. While you could use better and stronger spells and also still use the level 20 feature on the old Ranger. The math people are using is assuming that both are using the same tactic when the tactic is bad.
Except they DIDN'T add to what was in tasha's they took away from what was in tasha's they took away the option to mix and match from 2014, they took away primal awareness spells. they took away the better level 20 feature, they took away the number of uses of several of the tasha's abilities, they pushed a level 10 ability back to level 14. The only thing they added was expertise and weapon mastery after they took away much more than they gave.
"Mix and match" what exactly, the crappy 2014 ribbons? Simply by granting Expertise Tasha's beat all of them, and 2024 tripled that. Replacing Proficiency Bonus with Wis bonus is a buff until level 5 then a wash until level 9, then a wash again at 12 and then most campaigns are over. The ability they pushed back to 14 got buffed significantly. "They took away much more than they gave" is just wrong unless you weren't using spellcasting on your Ranger at all, in which case your opinion of the class isn't exactly valid.
This is just outright false. Remember that tasha's still had deft explorer to give expertise. so getting expertise at 9 is only 2 more not 3 more expertise. Second The new Hunter's mark ability is just as ribbon as the only favored enemy at the higher levels, again the level 20 ability is better anyway. And as far as wisdom modifier being better. If you got your wisdom to 16 in the starting levels than yes it is better till 5 in which it is even. It is worse at level 9 unless you are Taking ASI instead of feats, which if you are optimizing you are taking feats not an ASI which means it is behind from level 9 and onward. You completely ignored the fact that they took AWAY primal awareness from tasha's which GRANTED more spells which means the Ranger spell casting got WORSE from tasha's to 2024.
So you got a small skill buff by getting expertise in 2 more skills instead of advantage on recalling information about specific enemies. You got LESS spells and you got LESS uses of your Ranger abilities AND some of the new ranger abilities got pushed back later and you got a worse level 20 ability. All in favor of giving you Hunter's Mark which was a bad spell to use your concentration on anyway. You got multiple nerfs and 1 tiny buff.
2024 Ranger has more spellslots, can have more spells prepared and can change their spells now. In my eyes spellcasting is better in 2024 Ranger than Tashas. As fpr using your WIS modifier instead of prof bonus. I dont think people will will use those features so often that it will matter in the end, having 3-4 usages is enough.
Except they DIDN'T add to what was in tasha's they took away from what was in tasha's they took away the option to mix and match from 2014, they took away primal awareness spells. they took away the better level 20 feature, they took away the number of uses of several of the tasha's abilities, they pushed a level 10 ability back to level 14. The only thing they added was expertise and weapon mastery after they took away much more than they gave.
"Mix and match" what exactly, the crappy 2014 ribbons? Simply by granting Expertise Tasha's beat all of them, and 2024 tripled that. Replacing Proficiency Bonus with Wis bonus is a buff until level 5 then a wash until level 9, then a wash again at 12 and then most campaigns are over. The ability they pushed back to 14 got buffed significantly. "They took away much more than they gave" is just wrong unless you weren't using spellcasting on your Ranger at all, in which case your opinion of the class isn't exactly valid.
This is just outright false. Remember that tasha's still had deft explorer to give expertise. so getting expertise at 9 is only 2 more not 3 more expertise. Second The new Hunter's mark ability is just as ribbon as the only favored enemy at the higher levels, again the level 20 ability is better anyway. And as far as wisdom modifier being better. If you got your wisdom to 16 in the starting levels than yes it is better till 5 in which it is even. It is worse at level 9 unless you are Taking ASI instead of feats, which if you are optimizing you are taking feats not an ASI which means it is behind from level 9 and onward. You completely ignored the fact that they took AWAY primal awareness from tasha's which GRANTED more spells which means the Ranger spell casting got WORSE from tasha's to 2024.
So you got a small skill buff by getting expertise in 2 more skills instead of advantage on recalling information about specific enemies. You got LESS spells and you got LESS uses of your Ranger abilities AND some of the new ranger abilities got pushed back later and you got a worse level 20 ability. All in favor of giving you Hunter's Mark which was a bad spell to use your concentration on anyway. You got multiple nerfs and 1 tiny buff.
2024 Ranger has more spellslots, can have more spells prepared and can change their spells now. In my eyes spellcasting is better in 2024 Ranger than Tashas. As fpr using your WIS modifier instead of prof bonus. I dont think people will will use those features so often that it will matter in the end, having 3-4 usages is enough.
2024 ranger does not have more spell slots than the Tasha's ranger spell slot scaling (outside of multi-classing) is the exact same between the 2 unless you are counting free casts of hunter's mark which than you have to count free casts of the primal awareness spells which becomes a wash, they also can not have more spells prepared than the tasha's ranger when you take into account Primal Awareness which gave you some spells automatically prepared. SO at the very least their spells are equal to tasha's.
P.S. To those saying Nature's veil got a buff in 2024, I am curious why the tasha's ranger wouldn't benefit from that any more than they are dealing with the conjure animals nerf or any of the other spell changes.
Except they DIDN'T add to what was in tasha's they took away from what was in tasha's they took away the option to mix and match from 2014, they took away primal awareness spells. they took away the better level 20 feature, they took away the number of uses of several of the tasha's abilities, they pushed a level 10 ability back to level 14. The only thing they added was expertise and weapon mastery after they took away much more than they gave.
"Mix and match" what exactly, the crappy 2014 ribbons? Simply by granting Expertise Tasha's beat all of them, and 2024 tripled that. Replacing Proficiency Bonus with Wis bonus is a buff until level 5 then a wash until level 9, then a wash again at 12 and then most campaigns are over. The ability they pushed back to 14 got buffed significantly. "They took away much more than they gave" is just wrong unless you weren't using spellcasting on your Ranger at all, in which case your opinion of the class isn't exactly valid.
This is just outright false. Remember that tasha's still had deft explorer to give expertise. so getting expertise at 9 is only 2 more not 3 more expertise. Second The new Hunter's mark ability is just as ribbon as the only favored enemy at the higher levels, again the level 20 ability is better anyway. And as far as wisdom modifier being better. If you got your wisdom to 16 in the starting levels than yes it is better till 5 in which it is even. It is worse at level 9 unless you are Taking ASI instead of feats, which if you are optimizing you are taking feats not an ASI which means it is behind from level 9 and onward. You completely ignored the fact that they took AWAY primal awareness from tasha's which GRANTED more spells which means the Ranger spell casting got WORSE from tasha's to 2024.
So you got a small skill buff by getting expertise in 2 more skills instead of advantage on recalling information about specific enemies. You got LESS spells and you got LESS uses of your Ranger abilities AND some of the new ranger abilities got pushed back later and you got a worse level 20 ability. All in favor of giving you Hunter's Mark which was a bad spell to use your concentration on anyway. You got multiple nerfs and 1 tiny buff.
2024 Ranger has more spellslots, can have more spells prepared and can change their spells now. In my eyes spellcasting is better in 2024 Ranger than Tashas. As fpr using your WIS modifier instead of prof bonus. I dont think people will will use those features so often that it will matter in the end, having 3-4 usages is enough.
2024 ranger does not have more spell slots than the Tasha's ranger spell slot scaling (outside of multi-classing) is the exact same between the 2 unless you are counting free casts of hunter's mark which than you have to count free casts of the primal awareness spells which becomes a wash, they also can not have more spells prepared than the tasha's ranger when you take into account Primal Awareness which gave you some spells automatically prepared. SO at the very least their spells are equal to tasha's.
P.S. To those saying Nature's veil got a buff in 2024, I am curious why the tasha's ranger wouldn't benefit from that any more than they are dealing with the conjure animals nerf or any of the other spell changes.
If Im not misremembering, they do say you have more spellslots now in the video.
Changes to spell use with 2024: 1) you get spells at L1 - this means your progression is 1 level earlier so you get new slots and higher level spells 1 level earlier. At L20 you have the same number of slots as before. 2) spells are “semi-prepared”. That is you can change out 1 spell of any level known once daily (long rest) allowing you to completely change out your selections in 10 days or less. 3) spells “known” may have been increased - the video and write up was not clear on this. 4) spells have been revised in ways we don’t yet know and the ranger spell list may have been expanded ( again videos etc are not clear on this) 5) all rangers get the Hunter’s mark spell automatically, it doesn’t count against the known spells number and they get several free castings ( at the lowest level).
All of these are improvements over Tasha and 2014, with 1&2 being the most important.
I don’t think level spellcasting affects spell slot progression, assuming it works as it did in the UA. Rangers gained level 1 spellcasting there but didn’t get second level spells until level 5, as usual. I’ve not done a line-by-line comparison between the UA Ranger and the 2014 Ranger, but the progression looks fairly similar (apart from level 1). NB we’ve not seen the spell slot progression for the 2024 Ranger yet. In the preview article, it mentioned that the Ranger gets additional free castings of Hunter’s Mark as they level up.
The fact that seems to be getting forgotten here is you are using your concentration on hunter's mark to activate your level 20 feature in 2024. While you could use better and stronger spells and also still use the level 20 feature on the old Ranger. The math people are using is assuming that both are using the same tactic when the tactic is bad.
You were already doing that with Tasha's Ranger. Favored Foe takes Concentration; the free Hunter's Mark is just mathematically better than Favored Foe. If you're talking about the 2014 Ranger's capstone, then sure that didn't require concentration, but it was also attached to the very bad 2014 Favored Enemy feature. Hope you're fighting one of the three monster types you picked (or up to six races of humanoid... cringe) or else you don't get to use your 2014 capstone at all!
This is just outright false. Remember that tasha's still had deft explorer to give expertise. so getting expertise at 9 is only 2 more not 3 more expertise.
Second The new Hunter's mark ability is just as ribbon as the only favored enemy at the higher levels, again the level 20 ability is better anyway.
At higher levels, HM is giving you 1d6 per hit out of a 1st-level slot and constant advantage against the target, for up to an hour, with a number of free uses. That's not a ribbon, that's a way to convert your level 1 spell slots into decent damage as long as you're making at least 3 attacks.
If you got your wisdom to 16 in the starting levels than yes it is better till 5 in which it is even. It is worse at level 9 unless you are Taking ASI instead of feats, which if you are optimizing you are taking feats not an ASI which means it is behind from level 9 and onward.
It's behind by one from 9-12 (at which point you'd raise Wis since Dex is already maxed by 8) meaning it's the same or better from 1-8. Guess what levels show up in most campaigns?
You completely ignored the fact that they took AWAY primal awareness from tasha's which GRANTED more spells which means the Ranger spell casting got WORSE from tasha's to 2024.
You have 5 more base/general preparations than a Tasha's ranger (15+HM vs 11+PA), so if you want those spells so badly you can just prepare them manually and be right on par with the Tasha's one. But now you have the option of swapping the PA spells out for other ones instead. And unlike the Tasha's one, you can do that swap on a long rest instead of waiting to level. Lastly, 2024 gets more spell slots when multiclassing; 2024 is better off.
Again, if people look at the changes objectively instead of seeing "Hunter's Mark" and going apoplectic they will understand why 2024 is in a better place.
the ranger maybe in a better place but making one spell tied to a class does kinda lock in a set fantasy for it. Like yea it had one before but dont tie spells to classes. i think it would have been dope if the player could pick out of a list of the free spell they might want. all in all theres alot of people that think the ranger is worse off mainly because of HM being apart of the base kit. Tho we cant see the full ranger of the ranger until we see its spell list and spell changes that being even more so for HM.
Second The new Hunter's mark ability is just as ribbon as the only favored enemy at the higher levels, again the level 20 ability is better anyway.
At higher levels, HM is giving you 1d6 per hit out of a 1st-level slot and constant advantage against the target, for up to an hour, with a number of free uses. That's not a ribbon, that's a way to convert your level 1 spell slots into decent damage as long as you're making at least 3 attacks.
If you are using that than you are using your concentration on a bad spell. Which means not only did this feature not help you it hurt you because you decided to use a 1st level spell in combat instead of utilizing a better concentration spell. Which is why calling it a ribbon feature like 2014 is doing it a service. At best it is a ribbon feature that you can use in combats that don't really matter to speed those up, at worse it tricks you into using it in a combat that does matter and it causes more harm than it does help. So either all of the new hunter's mark features are ribbon features that help out easier combats or they are a trap feature that will hurt the tables performance by existing.
The fact that seems to be getting forgotten here is you are using your concentration on hunter's mark to activate your level 20 feature in 2024. While you could use better and stronger spells and also still use the level 20 feature on the old Ranger. The math people are using is assuming that both are using the same tactic when the tactic is bad.
You were already doing that with Tasha's Ranger. Favored Foe takes Concentration; the free Hunter's Mark is just mathematically better than Favored Foe. If you're talking about the 2014 Ranger's capstone, then sure that didn't require concentration, but it was also attached to the very bad 2014 Favored Enemy feature. Hope you're fighting one of the three monster types you picked (or up to six races of humanoid... cringe) or else you don't get to use your 2014 capstone at all!
The capstone for 2014 ranger is not linked in any way to the level 1 ability. I don't to get use out of the favored enemy to get use out of the 2014 ranger. This is an amazing example of false equivalence. The 2024 ranger has its first level and 20th level ability linked. The 2014 and tasha's rangers don't. The level 1 ability is ok for level 1. The 20th level ability should be good for level 20. The 1st level ability that loses relevance after level 9 should not be linked to the capstone at level 20. The level 20 feature on 2014 isn't "attached" to anything. That is why it works without concentration.
Also remember that favored enemy in 2014 doesn't actually do anything for fighting your favored enemy. It gives you a language, which many things could speak, gives you the ability to track that enemy AND gives you the ability to recall information on that enemy. That can be relevant even if you aren't fighting them, and if you are in a campaign with a DM I would think they could communicate the types of enemies that will be relevant and toss those favored enemies at you from time to time.
Except they DIDN'T add to what was in tasha's they took away from what was in tasha's they took away the option to mix and match from 2014, they took away primal awareness spells. they took away the better level 20 feature, they took away the number of uses of several of the tasha's abilities, they pushed a level 10 ability back to level 14. The only thing they added was expertise and weapon mastery after they took away much more than they gave.
"Mix and match" what exactly, the crappy 2014 ribbons? Simply by granting Expertise Tasha's beat all of them, and 2024 tripled that. Replacing Proficiency Bonus with Wis bonus is a buff until level 5 then a wash until level 9, then a wash again at 12 and then most campaigns are over. The ability they pushed back to 14 got buffed significantly. "They took away much more than they gave" is just wrong unless you weren't using spellcasting on your Ranger at all, in which case your opinion of the class isn't exactly valid.
This is just outright false. Remember that tasha's still had deft explorer to give expertise. so getting expertise at 9 is only 2 more not 3 more expertise. Second The new Hunter's mark ability is just as ribbon as the only favored enemy at the higher levels, again the level 20 ability is better anyway. And as far as wisdom modifier being better. If you got your wisdom to 16 in the starting levels than yes it is better till 5 in which it is even. It is worse at level 9 unless you are Taking ASI instead of feats, which if you are optimizing you are taking feats not an ASI which means it is behind from level 9 and onward. You completely ignored the fact that they took AWAY primal awareness from tasha's which GRANTED more spells which means the Ranger spell casting got WORSE from tasha's to 2024.
So you got a small skill buff by getting expertise in 2 more skills instead of advantage on recalling information about specific enemies. You got LESS spells and you got LESS uses of your Ranger abilities AND some of the new ranger abilities got pushed back later and you got a worse level 20 ability. All in favor of giving you Hunter's Mark which was a bad spell to use your concentration on anyway. You got multiple nerfs and 1 tiny buff.
2024 Ranger has more spellslots, can have more spells prepared and can change their spells now. In my eyes spellcasting is better in 2024 Ranger than Tashas. As fpr using your WIS modifier instead of prof bonus. I dont think people will will use those features so often that it will matter in the end, having 3-4 usages is enough.
2024 ranger does not have more spell slots than the Tasha's ranger spell slot scaling (outside of multi-classing) is the exact same between the 2 unless you are counting free casts of hunter's mark which than you have to count free casts of the primal awareness spells which becomes a wash, they also can not have more spells prepared than the tasha's ranger when you take into account Primal Awareness which gave you some spells automatically prepared. SO at the very least their spells are equal to tasha's.
P.S. To those saying Nature's veil got a buff in 2024, I am curious why the tasha's ranger wouldn't benefit from that any more than they are dealing with the conjure animals nerf or any of the other spell changes.
If Im not misremembering, they do say you have more spellslots now in the video.
They are counting level 1. So they are correct for 1 level. And they are also counting extra casting of hunter's mark. Which is not an actual spell slot. Early on though it will translate into casting more spells. Other than they took away primal awareness which means they took away a free casting. Still net more casting at early levels.
The fact that seems to be getting forgotten here is you are using your concentration on hunter's mark to activate your level 20 feature in 2024. While you could use better and stronger spells and also still use the level 20 feature on the old Ranger. The math people are using is assuming that both are using the same tactic when the tactic is bad.
You were already doing that with Tasha's Ranger. Favored Foe takes Concentration; the free Hunter's Mark is just mathematically better than Favored Foe. If you're talking about the 2014 Ranger's capstone, then sure that didn't require concentration, but it was also attached to the very bad 2014 Favored Enemy feature. Hope you're fighting one of the three monster types you picked (or up to six races of humanoid... cringe) or else you don't get to use your 2014 capstone at all!
The capstone for 2014 ranger is not linked in any way to the level 1 ability. I don't to get use out of the favored enemy to get use out of the 2014 ranger. This is an amazing example of false equivalence. The 2024 ranger has its first level and 20th level ability linked. The 2014 and tasha's rangers don't. The level 1 ability is ok for level 1. The 20th level ability should be good for level 20. The 1st level ability that loses relevance after level 9 should not be linked to the capstone at level 20. The level 20 feature on 2014 isn't "attached" to anything. That is why it works without concentration.
Also remember that favored enemy in 2014 doesn't actually do anything for fighting your favored enemy. It gives you a language, which many things could speak, gives you the ability to track that enemy AND gives you the ability to recall information on that enemy. That can be relevant even if you aren't fighting them, and if you are in a campaign with a DM I would think they could communicate the types of enemies that will be relevant and toss those favored enemies at you from time to time.
2014 and Tashas's DID link the level 20 ability back to a level 1 ability. For both, the level 20 Foe Slayer bonus only applied to a favored enemy, which you gained the ability to determine at level 1 for Favored Enemy and Favored Foe, respectively.
Also, you think getting a +5 to an attack roll or damage roll once a turn is better than an additional 1d10 for every hit? Also, since this target will have advantage on it, the crit chance is doubled and that 1d10 is going to benefit from that bonus. Meaning that roughly 10% of all your attacks are going to see that 1d10 become 2d10.
If you want to be able to track an enemy, apply HM to it. If you want easy information on a target, choose the Hunter subclass. Everything you seem to want is still there, just accessible in a way that allowed the ranger to be more powerful. I am not really seeing the issue here.
The capstone for 2014 ranger is not linked in any way to the level 1 ability. I don't to get use out of the favored enemy to get use out of the 2014 ranger. This is an amazing example of false equivalence. The 2024 ranger has its first level and 20th level ability linked. The 2014 and tasha's rangers don't. The level 1 ability is ok for level 1. The 20th level ability should be good for level 20. The 1st level ability that loses relevance after level 9 should not be linked to the capstone at level 20. The level 20 feature on 2014 isn't "attached" to anything. That is why it works without concentration.
Also remember that favored enemy in 2014 doesn't actually do anything for fighting your favored enemy. It gives you a language, which many things could speak, gives you the ability to track that enemy AND gives you the ability to recall information on that enemy. That can be relevant even if you aren't fighting them, and if you are in a campaign with a DM I would think they could communicate the types of enemies that will be relevant and toss those favored enemies at you from time to time.
We are literally having this discussion on a website with all the rules on it, for free. It would be trivial for you to click on the Game Rules tab at the top of the page (or along the right side menu on mobile), go to Classes, click on Ranger, click on Class Features, and read what the 2014 Ranger's features actually do. Please come back once you've done that.
They are counting level 1. So they are correct for 1 level. And they are also counting extra casting of hunter's mark. Which is not an actual spell slot. Early on though it will translate into casting more spells. Other than they took away primal awareness which means they took away a free casting. Still net more casting at early levels.
1) They're also counting multiclassing, 2024 rangers round up now.
2) You don't know how many free HM casts they get yet. What we do know however is that they can use rituals now, which adds a bunch more free castings per day for things like Detect Magic, Alarm, Speak with Animals, Water Breathing, and Commune with Nature.
They are counting level 1. So they are correct for 1 level. And they are also counting extra casting of hunter's mark. Which is not an actual spell slot. Early on though it will translate into casting more spells. Other than they took away primal awareness which means they took away a free casting. Still net more casting at early levels.
1) They're also counting multiclassing, 2024 rangers round up now.
2) You don't know how many free HM casts they get yet. What we do know however is that they can use rituals now, which adds a bunch more free castings per day for things like Detect Magic, Alarm, Speak with Animals, Water Breathing, and Commune with Nature.
they get 6 free castings a day we can tell bc they get 2 at 2nd level and in the 2014 vs 2024 post they did at 17th level they mention you have 6 free castings now. its prob growing like PB does
they get 6 free castings a day we can tell bc they get 2 at 2nd level and in the 2014 vs 2024 post they did at 17th level they mention you have 6 free castings now. its prob growing like PB does
PB/LR free castings of HM seems reasonable but again, we don't know for sure. Assuming that's the number however, that represents a pretty massive increase in spells/day for the Ranger at levels 1-8 over 2014, and even factoring in Primal Awareness you still get more castings per day as a 2024 Ranger.
they get 6 free castings a day we can tell bc they get 2 at 2nd level and in the 2014 vs 2024 post they did at 17th level they mention you have 6 free castings now. its prob growing like PB does
PB/LR free castings of HM seems reasonable but again, we don't know for sure. Assuming that's the number however, that represents a pretty massive increase in spells/day for the Ranger at levels 1-8 over 2014, and even factoring in Primal Awareness you still get more castings per day as a 2024 Ranger.
the numbers do match up with PB pretty well so id say its like a 99% chance tho i hope it isnt tied to PB and just follows the same scaling as it otherwise ranger dips might be kinda strong. Its a good amount no doubt tho but still think with all the other buffs and changes the other classes got a concentration free HM would not have been crazy at all
This is just outright false. Remember that tasha's still had deft explorer to give expertise. so getting expertise at 9 is only 2 more not 3 more expertise. Second The new Hunter's mark ability is just as ribbon as the only favored enemy at the higher levels, again the level 20 ability is better anyway. And as far as wisdom modifier being better. If you got your wisdom to 16 in the starting levels than yes it is better till 5 in which it is even. It is worse at level 9 unless you are Taking ASI instead of feats, which if you are optimizing you are taking feats not an ASI which means it is behind from level 9 and onward. You completely ignored the fact that they took AWAY primal awareness from tasha's which GRANTED more spells which means the Ranger spell casting got WORSE from tasha's to 2024.
So you got a small skill buff by getting expertise in 2 more skills instead of advantage on recalling information about specific enemies. You got LESS spells and you got LESS uses of your Ranger abilities AND some of the new ranger abilities got pushed back later and you got a worse level 20 ability. All in favor of giving you Hunter's Mark which was a bad spell to use your concentration on anyway. You got multiple nerfs and 1 tiny buff.
The fact that seems to be getting forgotten here is you are using your concentration on hunter's mark to activate your level 20 feature in 2024. While you could use better and stronger spells and also still use the level 20 feature on the old Ranger. The math people are using is assuming that both are using the same tactic when the tactic is bad.
2024 Ranger has more spellslots, can have more spells prepared and can change their spells now. In my eyes spellcasting is better in 2024 Ranger than Tashas. As fpr using your WIS modifier instead of prof bonus. I dont think people will will use those features so often that it will matter in the end, having 3-4 usages is enough.
2024 ranger does not have more spell slots than the Tasha's ranger spell slot scaling (outside of multi-classing) is the exact same between the 2 unless you are counting free casts of hunter's mark which than you have to count free casts of the primal awareness spells which becomes a wash, they also can not have more spells prepared than the tasha's ranger when you take into account Primal Awareness which gave you some spells automatically prepared. SO at the very least their spells are equal to tasha's.
P.S. To those saying Nature's veil got a buff in 2024, I am curious why the tasha's ranger wouldn't benefit from that any more than they are dealing with the conjure animals nerf or any of the other spell changes.
If Im not misremembering, they do say you have more spellslots now in the video.
Changes to spell use with 2024:
1) you get spells at L1 - this means your progression is 1 level earlier so you get new slots and higher level spells 1 level earlier. At L20 you have the same number of slots as before.
2) spells are “semi-prepared”. That is you can change out 1 spell of any level known once daily (long rest) allowing you to completely change out your selections in 10 days or less.
3) spells “known” may have been increased - the video and write up was not clear on this.
4) spells have been revised in ways we don’t yet know and the ranger spell list may have been expanded ( again videos etc are not clear on this)
5) all rangers get the Hunter’s mark spell automatically, it doesn’t count against the known spells number and they get several free castings ( at the lowest level).
All of these are improvements over Tasha and 2014, with 1&2 being the most important.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I don’t think level spellcasting affects spell slot progression, assuming it works as it did in the UA. Rangers gained level 1 spellcasting there but didn’t get second level spells until level 5, as usual. I’ve not done a line-by-line comparison between the UA Ranger and the 2014 Ranger, but the progression looks fairly similar (apart from level 1). NB we’ve not seen the spell slot progression for the 2024 Ranger yet.
In the preview article, it mentioned that the Ranger gets additional free castings of Hunter’s Mark as they level up.
You were already doing that with Tasha's Ranger. Favored Foe takes Concentration; the free Hunter's Mark is just mathematically better than Favored Foe. If you're talking about the 2014 Ranger's capstone, then sure that didn't require concentration, but it was also attached to the very bad 2014 Favored Enemy feature. Hope you're fighting one of the three monster types you picked (or up to six races of humanoid... cringe) or else you don't get to use your 2014 capstone at all!
I said 3x not 3 more. 3 * 1 = 3.
At higher levels, HM is giving you 1d6 per hit out of a 1st-level slot and constant advantage against the target, for up to an hour, with a number of free uses. That's not a ribbon, that's a way to convert your level 1 spell slots into decent damage as long as you're making at least 3 attacks.
It's behind by one from 9-12 (at which point you'd raise Wis since Dex is already maxed by 8) meaning it's the same or better from 1-8. Guess what levels show up in most campaigns?
You have 5 more base/general preparations than a Tasha's ranger (15+HM vs 11+PA), so if you want those spells so badly you can just prepare them manually and be right on par with the Tasha's one. But now you have the option of swapping the PA spells out for other ones instead. And unlike the Tasha's one, you can do that swap on a long rest instead of waiting to level. Lastly, 2024 gets more spell slots when multiclassing; 2024 is better off.
Again, if people look at the changes objectively instead of seeing "Hunter's Mark" and going apoplectic they will understand why 2024 is in a better place.
the ranger maybe in a better place but making one spell tied to a class does kinda lock in a set fantasy for it. Like yea it had one before but dont tie spells to classes. i think it would have been dope if the player could pick out of a list of the free spell they might want. all in all theres alot of people that think the ranger is worse off mainly because of HM being apart of the base kit. Tho we cant see the full ranger of the ranger until we see its spell list and spell changes that being even more so for HM.
If you are using that than you are using your concentration on a bad spell. Which means not only did this feature not help you it hurt you because you decided to use a 1st level spell in combat instead of utilizing a better concentration spell. Which is why calling it a ribbon feature like 2014 is doing it a service. At best it is a ribbon feature that you can use in combats that don't really matter to speed those up, at worse it tricks you into using it in a combat that does matter and it causes more harm than it does help. So either all of the new hunter's mark features are ribbon features that help out easier combats or they are a trap feature that will hurt the tables performance by existing.
The capstone for 2014 ranger is not linked in any way to the level 1 ability. I don't to get use out of the favored enemy to get use out of the 2014 ranger. This is an amazing example of false equivalence. The 2024 ranger has its first level and 20th level ability linked. The 2014 and tasha's rangers don't. The level 1 ability is ok for level 1. The 20th level ability should be good for level 20. The 1st level ability that loses relevance after level 9 should not be linked to the capstone at level 20. The level 20 feature on 2014 isn't "attached" to anything. That is why it works without concentration.
Also remember that favored enemy in 2014 doesn't actually do anything for fighting your favored enemy. It gives you a language, which many things could speak, gives you the ability to track that enemy AND gives you the ability to recall information on that enemy. That can be relevant even if you aren't fighting them, and if you are in a campaign with a DM I would think they could communicate the types of enemies that will be relevant and toss those favored enemies at you from time to time.
They are counting level 1. So they are correct for 1 level. And they are also counting extra casting of hunter's mark. Which is not an actual spell slot. Early on though it will translate into casting more spells. Other than they took away primal awareness which means they took away a free casting. Still net more casting at early levels.
2014 and Tashas's DID link the level 20 ability back to a level 1 ability. For both, the level 20 Foe Slayer bonus only applied to a favored enemy, which you gained the ability to determine at level 1 for Favored Enemy and Favored Foe, respectively.
Also, you think getting a +5 to an attack roll or damage roll once a turn is better than an additional 1d10 for every hit? Also, since this target will have advantage on it, the crit chance is doubled and that 1d10 is going to benefit from that bonus. Meaning that roughly 10% of all your attacks are going to see that 1d10 become 2d10.
If you want to be able to track an enemy, apply HM to it. If you want easy information on a target, choose the Hunter subclass. Everything you seem to want is still there, just accessible in a way that allowed the ranger to be more powerful. I am not really seeing the issue here.
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We are literally having this discussion on a website with all the rules on it, for free. It would be trivial for you to click on the Game Rules tab at the top of the page (or along the right side menu on mobile), go to Classes, click on Ranger, click on Class Features, and read what the 2014 Ranger's features actually do. Please come back once you've done that.
You've done the math to back this up right?
1) They're also counting multiclassing, 2024 rangers round up now.
2) You don't know how many free HM casts they get yet. What we do know however is that they can use rituals now, which adds a bunch more free castings per day for things like Detect Magic, Alarm, Speak with Animals, Water Breathing, and Commune with Nature.
they get 6 free castings a day we can tell bc they get 2 at 2nd level and in the 2014 vs 2024 post they did at 17th level they mention you have 6 free castings now. its prob growing like PB does
PB/LR free castings of HM seems reasonable but again, we don't know for sure. Assuming that's the number however, that represents a pretty massive increase in spells/day for the Ranger at levels 1-8 over 2014, and even factoring in Primal Awareness you still get more castings per day as a 2024 Ranger.
the numbers do match up with PB pretty well so id say its like a 99% chance tho i hope it isnt tied to PB and just follows the same scaling as it otherwise ranger dips might be kinda strong. Its a good amount no doubt tho but still think with all the other buffs and changes the other classes got a concentration free HM would not have been crazy at all
i was re reading the 2014 vs 2024 ranger post and it seems HM is still using your BA sadly.