imagine a 20th level capstone that does less then the monks old one. also what about all the cool arrow spells they had? i dont want to lose my capstone so what? i break it then cast the spell then spend another use to recast hunters mark?
I can't understand why they seem to hate Rangers. "Whole new class" is just insulting. It's Tashas with some small changes. Concentration on HM still, means most of your other spells are out. And the "upgrades" to it are just insulting.
its bad how is a CAPSTONE (you know the whole reason you went 20 levels in ranger?) just a 2 DPR increase on a 1st lvl spell. if thats all it is then its the worst capstone since there have been capstones
Favored Enemy concentration can't be broken by damage at mid-levels
Deft Explorer gives up to 3x Expertise (alongside the 2 more languages.)
Spell list increased to have more utility and offense
Permanent advantage to Marked targets
Feral senses grant 30ft blindsight (i.e. it still works even if you're blinded unlike 2014)
HM goes up to +d10 per hit
Your posts have made a dent in my depression regarding the ranger reaction. People just don't understand what the ranger is supposed to be. It's supposed to be a divine jack of all trades focused on martial weapons and exploration. It's SUPPOSED to be good but not great at everything except exploration, where they are great with the added Expertise alone. Besides, JC literally can't consider Tasha "mechanical canon" because all those rules are OPTIONAL, a DM who follows the rules to the letter can justifiably ban them in their games, now they can't if they want to play the 2024 version (I mean sure, they can, but others can then homebrew the ranger any way they want so it doesn't matter).
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DM for life by choice, biggest fan of D&D specifically.
There's a some nice changes but I'm not sure how I feel about the reliance on Hunters mark. Depending how Beastmasters bonus action command works and if the rangers utility spells still need concentration and a bonus action to cast or not.
Its just going to be having to constantly sacrifice hunters mark and its features, commanding a pet or a utility spell.
My hope is the Ranger utility spells no longer requires concentration and that pets can keep acting on one command.
And I think the level 20 Hunters Mark damage feels really lack luster.
Many people are complaining in the chat of the article about this Ranger being very similar to TCoE.
I don't have that book, so I can't compare. I also think I won't buy it at this moment because it seems the PHB 2024 will provide a distillation from TCoE for many classes.
Complaining about that seems a bit silly. Instead, be happy about having an official Ranger in the new edition based on TCoE plus some improvements.
Refer to my earlier post, the 2024 Ranger is very different than Tasha's. The chat was being reactionary and barely listening to a word Crawford said, which given how slow those videos are live completely blows my mind (I usually have to listen to all the dev videos at the full 2x speed to stay engaged.)
so damage cant break spell concentration but its still concentration??? why? whos out here scared of what the ranger might combo with hunters mark? its 1d6 of extra damage per attack so nice but not amazing when other spells do way more. the damage of the hunters mark doesnt go up until it hits 20th level? so the only thing the ranger gets at 20th level is for a 1st level spell that they still have a limited number of uses on and still needs concentration on? (there maybe something else on the capstone idk cant read it yet)
HM reverted to 1d6 damage on every hit. With TWF/Nick, Rangers can easily get 4 hits per round (Attack + Extra Attack + TWF + Reaction), and a BM can get two more on top of that, for a reliable +4d6/+6d6 every single round before Haste or items. Getting all that bonus damage every round out of a 1st-level slot without concentration would frankly be nuts.
Many people are complaining in the chat of the article about this Ranger being very similar to TCoE.
I don't have that book, so I can't compare. I also think I won't buy it at this moment because it seems the PHB 2024 will provide a distillation from TCoE for many classes.
Complaining about that seems a bit silly. Instead, be happy about having an official Ranger in the new edition based on TCoE plus some improvements.
Refer to my earlier post, the 2024 Ranger is very different than Tasha's. The chat was being reactionary and barely listening to a word Crawford said, which given how slow those videos are live completely blows my mind (I usually have to listen to all the dev videos at the full 2x speed to stay engaged.)
Yes! Precisely, I wrote my opinion after reading your post. It's pretty god, thanks mate!
Also, we should remember that D&D is not only combat.
As someone who has never been interested in ranger, I am now.
As someone who mains ranger i must ask
why? i honestly want to know from a fresh perspective
The main reason is that most of my concerns about the ranger have been largely addressed. Tasha's did do a lot, but it wasn't really enough to get me excited about the ranger alone because first, they were optional and table dependent, and second, I didn't feel they were enough for me. This is just an opinion on the ranger before the 2024 changes. Spellcasting from level 1 is pretty nice, not having to burn spell slots for HM, classic rules on environments do not seem to be playing a role at all now and favored enemy is not so campaign dependent, both of which I found to be awful. Hide in Plain Sight was just a bad feature and I am glad it was killed. Expertise is pretty neat and will allow rangers to lean into those 'ranger' skills. Not being limited on the fighting styles is also great and gives players a lot more options in how they want to ranger.
It's not like I am blown away though. Their short rest recovery feature is a bit of a snooze IMO. When exhaustion start to tick onto the party, the party immediately starts to jockey for a long rest, at least in my experience as a player and as a DM. It would be pretty nice when the party cannot LR, but I believe that may put it on the DM to give the ranger the ability to shine here by harassing the party with encounters to interrupt LR, add chase encounters, or time-dependent objectives into the sessions. None of those are bad things, but it is how I see the information given so far.
All this does not seem to matter much to a lot of the people who love the ranger though. All I am saying is that as someone who has never been interested and who has never played a ranger, I think the new changes, in addition to the Tasha's rules now being core, makes me interested. Beast Master has caught my interest most I think.
There's a some nice changes but I'm not sure how I feel about the reliance on Hunters mark. Depending how Beastmasters bonus action command works and if the rangers utility spells still need concentration and a bonus action to cast or not.
It's a BA to command the pet, but you can also replace one of your attacks to command it in a pinch instead. So on rounds where you need to move your HM, you can use that second option; you'll be down 1 attack, but provided you're not needing to move HM every round (or maybe even every other round?) you'll likely do more damage overall than if you didn't move HM. And if you do find yourself needing to move it every round, then whatever you're fighting is probably too weak for HM to matter anyway, and you should be saving your slots or concentrating on something else.
Probably going to ask my dm if I can just use the 2014 version with Tasha's and weapon mastery. I like favored enemy more than favored foe or this new Hunter's mark feature and felt we lost a lot of stuff for just more bad Hunter's mark. The dev team said they felt they got enough feedback during the playtest for the ranger and didn't need another go. This result shows they were wrong. People make mistakes.
As someone who has never been interested in ranger, I am now.
As someone who mains ranger i must ask
why? i honestly want to know from a fresh perspective
The main reason is that most of my concerns about the ranger have been largely addressed. Tasha's did do a lot, but it wasn't really enough to get me excited about the ranger alone because first, they were optional and table dependent, and second, I didn't feel they were enough for me. This is just an opinion on the ranger before the 2024 changes. Spellcasting from level 1 is pretty nice, not having to burn spell slots for HM, classic rules on environments do not seem to be playing a role at all now and favored enemy is not so campaign dependent, both of which I found to be awful. Hide in Plain Sight was just a bad feature and I am glad it was killed. Expertise is pretty neat and will allow rangers to lean into those 'ranger' skills. Not being limited on the fighting styles is also great and gives players a lot more options in how they want to ranger.
It's not like I am blown away though. Their short rest recovery feature is a bit of a snooze IMO. When exhaustion start to tick onto the party, the party immediately starts to jockey for a long rest, at least in my experience as a player and as a DM. It would be pretty nice when the party cannot LR, but I believe that may put it on the DM to give the ranger the ability to shine here by harassing the party with encounters to interrupt LR, add chase encounters, or time-dependent objectives into the sessions. None of those are bad things, but it is how I see the information given so far.
All this does not seem to matter much to a lot of the people who love the ranger though. All I am saying is that as someone who has never been interested and who has never played a ranger, I think the new changes, in addition to the Tasha's rules now being core, makes me interested. Beast Master has caught my interest most I think.
im happy to see new faces wanting to try ranger! and most of the changes are good changes the main part ranger players is
1. you dont have some of your class features if you dont use hunters mark (including your capstone) 2. roving not able to be used with heavy armor (such a weird change that one) theres a few other small things but most of the hate is the hunters mark change. i havnt really heard anyone complain about the roving thing yet so that one maybe just me.
Probably going to ask my dm if I can just use the 2014 version with Tasha's and weapon mastery. I like favored enemy more than favored foe or this new Hunter's mark feature and felt we lost a lot of stuff for just more bad Hunter's mark. The dev team said they felt they got enough feedback during the playtest for the ranger and didn't need another go. This result shows they were wrong. People make mistakes.
I feel like this revamp kicks 2014 butt donno why you think 14 is better
I really hope they change the saving throw proficiency. If so much of the class is going to be built around spamming a concentration spell, they should give them con proficiency. It does fit thematically with them being hardy folks on the edge of nature. Swap dex for con. Or if not, do something else to help them maintain concentration. Especially since melee rangers are going to be way more functional now.
I really hope they change the saving throw proficiency. If so much of the class is going to be built around spamming a concentration spell, they should give them con proficiency. It does fit thematically with them being hardy folks on the edge of nature. Swap dex for con. Or if not, do something else to help them maintain concentration. Especially since melee rangers are going to be way more functional now.
yea dex based melee rangers will be tho sadly str rangers were kicked out of the house on this one
I really hope they change the saving throw proficiency. If so much of the class is going to be built around spamming a concentration spell, they should give them con proficiency. It does fit thematically with them being hardy folks on the edge of nature. Swap dex for con. Or if not, do something else to help them maintain concentration. Especially since melee rangers are going to be way more functional now.
They did give them something, concentration on HM won't be breakable by damage eventually. That's where the vast majority of lost concentration comes from.
War Caster is also a half-feat now and so is very easy to pick up.
im happy to see new faces wanting to try ranger! and most of the changes are good changes the main part ranger players is
1. you dont have some of your class features if you dont use hunters mark (including your capstone) 2. roving not able to be used with heavy armor (such a weird change that one) theres a few other small things but most of the hate is the hunters mark change. i havnt really heard anyone complain about the roving thing yet so that one maybe just me.
I'm not entirely sure what your point is supposed to be. If a druid doesn't use Wild Shape they lose out on some of their features too, including their capstone. A rogue who doesn't use Sneak Attack doesn't get to Cunning Strike and a Barbarian who doesn't Reckless Attack can't Brutal Strike. Features that build on or expect you to use other features are fine.
imagine a 20th level capstone that does less then the monks old one. also what about all the cool arrow spells they had? i dont want to lose my capstone so what? i break it then cast the spell then spend another use to recast hunters mark?
I can't understand why they seem to hate Rangers. "Whole new class" is just insulting. It's Tashas with some small changes. Concentration on HM still, means most of your other spells are out. And the "upgrades" to it are just insulting.
its bad how is a CAPSTONE (you know the whole reason you went 20 levels in ranger?) just a 2 DPR increase on a 1st lvl spell. if thats all it is then its the worst capstone since there have been capstones
Your posts have made a dent in my depression regarding the ranger reaction. People just don't understand what the ranger is supposed to be. It's supposed to be a divine jack of all trades focused on martial weapons and exploration. It's SUPPOSED to be good but not great at everything except exploration, where they are great with the added Expertise alone. Besides, JC literally can't consider Tasha "mechanical canon" because all those rules are OPTIONAL, a DM who follows the rules to the letter can justifiably ban them in their games, now they can't if they want to play the 2024 version (I mean sure, they can, but others can then homebrew the ranger any way they want so it doesn't matter).
DM for life by choice, biggest fan of D&D specifically.
There's a some nice changes but I'm not sure how I feel about the reliance on Hunters mark. Depending how Beastmasters bonus action command works and if the rangers utility spells still need concentration and a bonus action to cast or not.
Its just going to be having to constantly sacrifice hunters mark and its features, commanding a pet or a utility spell.
My hope is the Ranger utility spells no longer requires concentration and that pets can keep acting on one command.
And I think the level 20 Hunters Mark damage feels really lack luster.
As someone who has never been interested in ranger, I am now.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
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As someone who mains ranger i must ask
why? i honestly want to know from a fresh perspective
Refer to my earlier post, the 2024 Ranger is very different than Tasha's. The chat was being reactionary and barely listening to a word Crawford said, which given how slow those videos are live completely blows my mind (I usually have to listen to all the dev videos at the full 2x speed to stay engaged.)
HM reverted to 1d6 damage on every hit. With TWF/Nick, Rangers can easily get 4 hits per round (Attack + Extra Attack + TWF + Reaction), and a BM can get two more on top of that, for a reliable +4d6/+6d6 every single round before Haste or items. Getting all that bonus damage every round out of a 1st-level slot without concentration would frankly be nuts.
Yes! Precisely, I wrote my opinion after reading your post. It's pretty god, thanks mate!
Also, we should remember that D&D is not only combat.
is there even a point to these discussions? the books printed this is the final product so what we say doesnt really matter
1) They did say there would be some small changes between the early access PDFs and the final product, but I'm not expecting anything major.
2) Discussing upcoming products is fun. We have a whole subforum for it for a reason.
The main reason is that most of my concerns about the ranger have been largely addressed. Tasha's did do a lot, but it wasn't really enough to get me excited about the ranger alone because first, they were optional and table dependent, and second, I didn't feel they were enough for me. This is just an opinion on the ranger before the 2024 changes. Spellcasting from level 1 is pretty nice, not having to burn spell slots for HM, classic rules on environments do not seem to be playing a role at all now and favored enemy is not so campaign dependent, both of which I found to be awful. Hide in Plain Sight was just a bad feature and I am glad it was killed. Expertise is pretty neat and will allow rangers to lean into those 'ranger' skills. Not being limited on the fighting styles is also great and gives players a lot more options in how they want to ranger.
It's not like I am blown away though. Their short rest recovery feature is a bit of a snooze IMO. When exhaustion start to tick onto the party, the party immediately starts to jockey for a long rest, at least in my experience as a player and as a DM. It would be pretty nice when the party cannot LR, but I believe that may put it on the DM to give the ranger the ability to shine here by harassing the party with encounters to interrupt LR, add chase encounters, or time-dependent objectives into the sessions. None of those are bad things, but it is how I see the information given so far.
All this does not seem to matter much to a lot of the people who love the ranger though. All I am saying is that as someone who has never been interested and who has never played a ranger, I think the new changes, in addition to the Tasha's rules now being core, makes me interested. Beast Master has caught my interest most I think.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock
Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
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Check out my life-changing
It's a BA to command the pet, but you can also replace one of your attacks to command it in a pinch instead. So on rounds where you need to move your HM, you can use that second option; you'll be down 1 attack, but provided you're not needing to move HM every round (or maybe even every other round?) you'll likely do more damage overall than if you didn't move HM. And if you do find yourself needing to move it every round, then whatever you're fighting is probably too weak for HM to matter anyway, and you should be saving your slots or concentrating on something else.
Probably going to ask my dm if I can just use the 2014 version with Tasha's and weapon mastery. I like favored enemy more than favored foe or this new Hunter's mark feature and felt we lost a lot of stuff for just more bad Hunter's mark. The dev team said they felt they got enough feedback during the playtest for the ranger and didn't need another go. This result shows they were wrong. People make mistakes.
The old Favored Enemy can (and should, imo) just be replicated with skill checks and Expertise. I'm glad its gone.
im happy to see new faces wanting to try ranger! and most of the changes are good changes the main part ranger players is
1. you dont have some of your class features if you dont use hunters mark (including your capstone)
2. roving not able to be used with heavy armor (such a weird change that one)
theres a few other small things but most of the hate is the hunters mark change. i havnt really heard anyone complain about the roving thing yet so that one maybe just me.
I feel like this revamp kicks 2014 butt donno why you think 14 is better
I really hope they change the saving throw proficiency. If so much of the class is going to be built around spamming a concentration spell, they should give them con proficiency. It does fit thematically with them being hardy folks on the edge of nature. Swap dex for con. Or if not, do something else to help them maintain concentration. Especially since melee rangers are going to be way more functional now.
yea dex based melee rangers will be tho sadly str rangers were kicked out of the house on this one
They did give them something, concentration on HM won't be breakable by damage eventually. That's where the vast majority of lost concentration comes from.
War Caster is also a half-feat now and so is very easy to pick up.
I'm not entirely sure what your point is supposed to be. If a druid doesn't use Wild Shape they lose out on some of their features too, including their capstone. A rogue who doesn't use Sneak Attack doesn't get to Cunning Strike and a Barbarian who doesn't Reckless Attack can't Brutal Strike. Features that build on or expect you to use other features are fine.