My thoughts: overall, they seem to have flattened the power curve. Crafter and Tavern Brawler mostly look terrible, Healer and Savage Attacker require fairly specialized builds to make sense, but alert/lucky/magic initiate/musician/skilled/tough are all useful on a broad variety of builds and none seems like a must have.
It's yet another design choice that creates an even bigger power gulf between people who build their character as a character, who base their character choices to support the narrative, and people who build their characters as a build caring only about how powerful their PC is.
Want to have an assassin raised in a religious order? You will invariably be weaker than a Rogue built by a player who couldn't care less about roleplay and picked a background that let them increase their Dexterity and pick a feat that supports their class.
WotC is telling anyone who gives a crap about anything but buildcrafting and combat that they aren't welcome at their table.
Look, I'm not a fan of fixed backgrounds either but there's no need for melodrama.
1) Acolyte isn't the only possible way to represent someone who grew up in a temple. A Wayfarer or even Criminal could have easily taken refuge in one of those repeatedly in their life, particularly when you think of a faith like Mask or Shar.
2) Ultimately, if what you want is something like the narrative trappings of Acolyte with different stat bonuses and feat, we'll presumably be able to do that via Custom Background.
Merchant and Wayfarer are both confirmed to have :Lucky (Merchant from the Art video, and Lucky from the PixelCircus preview.)
My guess is that some of the backgrounds that didn't make the cut will be included in future books with different ASI/feat combinations.
So the only unknown one is Scribe, which could be Magic Initiate (Wizard or Cleric) since a scribe studies manuscripts, or Crafter since they also craft/copy said manuscripts.
Merchant and Wayfarer are both confirmed to have :Lucky (Merchant from the Art video, and Lucky from the PixelCircus preview.)
My guess is that some of the backgrounds that didn't make the cut will be included in future books with different ASI/feat combinations.
Thanks! I’ll edit that into my list.
My guess for the Scribe is Skilled; Magic Initiate (Wizard) feels like it would be too close to the Sage. Skilled would allow you to make a knowledgeable scholar, rather than a proto-Wizard, which I think was missing somewhat previously.
It’d be nice to see some of the other UA backgrounds turn up later: perhaps in the big book of subclasses (and Artificer) that we keep predicting.
The backgrounds in the book cover most character backstories. As was stated earlier, custom backgrounds should be seen as a world-building tool and DMs should be encouraged to work with their players to come up with custom backgrounds that fit their campaigns.
And if the backgrounds in the PHB don't work for you, but a background in another book does, then you can use one of those backgrounds. There is a sidebar on adapting older backgrounds, which basically involves choosing a custom ASI and origin feat.
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Well, choosing your class does tend to be the biggest decision in a character concept, so I can see why they’ve put that first. The order is fairly arbitrary though: I know I can go backwards and forwards through the choice of species, class and background while the concept takes shape.
I think the choice to present a fixed range of backgrounds is intended to showcase the narrative over the mechanics. I do prefer being able to customise the backgrounds (either modifying them or building one from scratch). That gives players much broader scope for putting together a package of features that reflect their characters’ backstories. On the other hand, it also gives even more scope for optimisation for the much-vilified “theory-crafters”. This, I don’t think taking the new system of backgrounds as evidence for WotC favouring either “role players” or “optimisers” is justified.
Even if restricted to the PHB backgrounds, we don’t need to be restricted by their apparent straitjackets. To further develop the idea of a character brought up in a religious institution, we could look at mediaeval monasteries and abbeys for inspiration. These were large, self-sufficient communities with people fulfilling many different roles. They needed Farmers and Artisans. Some members might be better portrayed as Hermits, Scribes or Sages. Some may have had other backgrounds before entering the abbey: perhaps Nobles, Criminals or Soldiers. Not every member of a religious community has to be an Acolyte. A bit of creativity should find something that’s a reasonable fit for both the backstory and the mechanical effectiveness of your character.
If they are implementing rules for Custom Backgrounds in a later books, and have enabled full customization for any past background that isn't rewritten in 2024...why does there even need to be set restrictive backgrounds to begin with?
The only purpose of this rule seems to be limiting creativity in character backstories. As someone who commented on the article pointed out, their stated approach to building your PC is exactly that of theory-crafters: start with a class, and then choose background and species to optimize that class, as opposed to starting with and fleshing out a character concept.
It also means that characters who come from similar backgrounds automatically have overlapping skills and talents, as opposed to the idea that they might have learned different skills. It's all so actively hostile to folks who play the game for storytelling, as opposed to making their numbers go higher.
The purpose seems to be the simplification of character creation for new players. I think that's also why there's only ten origin feats. And it's done in a way that softly funnels players from wider rings of options for class and race to the backgrounds where out of all the options, there's only 1-2 backgrounds that compliment the previous choices. Like if I make a Fighter because I want a character that is good at attacking with weapons, only one origin feat directly affects all weapon attacks (savage attacker). Or if I wanted a tank, Tough is the obvious choice. With the origin feats tied to the backgrounds, the backgrounds themselves fall to the background.
Worth noting: the "Using Old Backgrounds at Character Creation" rules would include 2014's custom background rules, which (combined with the 2024 rules) are basically as flexible as the (supposed) 2024 custom background rules. So you can mix-and-match skill proficiencies, tool proficiencies, etc, with a feet and ASIs of choice.
I stongly suspect the new DMG rules for custom backgrounds will formalize that.
I appreciate we haven’t seen the final wording of the feats, but does it look like Savage Attacker will re-roll ALL the damage dice from a weapon attack, e.g. including Sneak Attack or Divine Smite?
Worth noting: the "Using Old Backgrounds at Character Creation" rules would include 2014's custom background rules, which (combined with the 2024 rules) are basically as flexible as the (supposed) 2024 custom background rules. So you can mix-and-match skill proficiencies, tool proficiencies, etc, with a feet and ASIs of choice.
I stongly suspect the new DMG rules for custom backgrounds will formalize that.
The guidance for using older backgrounds, and other character options, will be in the PHB.
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Worth noting: the "Using Old Backgrounds at Character Creation" rules would include 2014's custom background rules, which (combined with the 2024 rules) are basically as flexible as the (supposed) 2024 custom background rules. So you can mix-and-match skill proficiencies, tool proficiencies, etc, with a feet and ASIs of choice.
I stongly suspect the new DMG rules for custom backgrounds will formalize that.
The guidance for using older backgrounds, and other character options, will be in the PHB.
Yes, but the 2024 rules for custom backgrounds will be in the DMG. (I'm just pointing out that the 2024 PHB rules, by virtue of including the means to adapt 2014 backgrounds, will implicitly include custom background rules, because of 2014's custom background rules from 2014's PHB.)
Keep in mind that the ones that were "nerfed" like Alert and Lucky, used to be level 4 feats for everyone who wasn't a Vuman or CL anyway. They needed to be brought in line with other background feats.
I believe Lucky can still be used after the roll but before the result, though not 100% sure.
This is something that never even occurred to me until it was mentioned in a UA video, when the 2014 rules were written *every* feat was at least a level 4 feat because that was the earliest anyone could take one. The variant human threw the balance out slightly and they’ve had to tweak and nerf a few for them to work as level 1 feats
With Magic Initiate it now specifies just Cleric, Wizard, or Druid.
Wonder why Bard, Warlock, and Sorcerer don't get the Magic Initiate option.
According to the Bard video, it's to make those classes' more unique. Except all of those spells are easily obtained by taking a one-level dip, even Divine Smite now.
So in reality, it's about nerfing pure-class builds' options so optimizers can feel more powerful.
For God's sake it is not. One of the complaints about Bards was how they could take spells from half-casters and unique classes spell lists way before those classes could. THIS as a big piece of feedback on the UA. Now a bard has to take a dip if they want to take a specific spell, and if that spell is higher on the list then is it even worth it to dip? Sounds to me like it was done to discourage optimized multiclass builds instead.
The other thing, the reason Magic Initiate is those three specific classes is because they are the most complete lists that emulate the arcane, primal and divine lists from the UA. Again, many people (myself included) provided feedback in the UA of the ability to poach thematic spells from classes like Warlock and Ranger with Magic Initiate and the arcane, primal and divine lists, and Thank God they listened to us.
Not everything WotC does in with malicious intent you know. The majority of the changes in the 2024 books were done with user feedback taken from the UA surveys. YES, that includes the Ranger changes.
With Magic Initiate it now specifies just Cleric, Wizard, or Druid.
Wonder why Bard, Warlock, and Sorcerer don't get the Magic Initiate option.
According to the Bard video, it's to make those classes' more unique. Except all of those spells are easily obtained by taking a one-level dip, even Divine Smite now.
So in reality, it's about nerfing pure-class builds' options so optimizers can feel more powerful.
Multiclassing is optional. If you don't like dirty optimizers using it at your table, tell them you're not using that optional rule. Simple.
With Magic Initiate it now specifies just Cleric, Wizard, or Druid.
Wonder why Bard, Warlock, and Sorcerer don't get the Magic Initiate option.
According to the Bard video, it's to make those classes' more unique. Except all of those spells are easily obtained by taking a one-level dip, even Divine Smite now.
So in reality, it's about nerfing pure-class builds' options so optimizers can feel more powerful.
A multiclass dip is a much larger investment than a feat that you get for free at level one.
Keep in mind that the ones that were "nerfed" like Alert and Lucky, used to be level 4 feats for everyone who wasn't a Vuman or CL anyway. They needed to be brought in line with other background feats.
I believe Lucky can still be used after the roll but before the result, though not 100% sure.
This is something that never even occurred to me until it was mentioned in a UA video, when the 2014 rules were written *every* feat was at least a level 4 feat because that was the earliest anyone could take one. The variant human threw the balance out slightly and they’ve had to tweak and nerf a few for them to work as level 1 feats
Getting a free feat at level 1 has been a popular house rule, so all feats were essentially level 1 feats in that circumstance.
Keep in mind that the ones that were "nerfed" like Alert and Lucky, used to be level 4 feats for everyone who wasn't a Vuman or CL anyway. They needed to be brought in line with other background feats.
I believe Lucky can still be used after the roll but before the result, though not 100% sure.
This is something that never even occurred to me until it was mentioned in a UA video, when the 2014 rules were written *every* feat was at least a level 4 feat because that was the earliest anyone could take one. The variant human threw the balance out slightly and they’ve had to tweak and nerf a few for them to work as level 1 feats
Getting a free feat at level 1 has been a popular house rule, so all feats were essentially level 1 feats in that circumstance.
Houserules don't matter though, no matter how popular. This is still a buff by RAW.
(Also, the devs have said featless games are actually the most popular.)
Honestly, it seems that the stereotyping we have associated with the various Race/Class combos are gone, only to be replaced with more stereotyping between Background and Class combos instead.
So, people will feel less discouraged from trying out Dwarven Wizards or the like, but Sailors won’t be Wizards.
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My thoughts: overall, they seem to have flattened the power curve. Crafter and Tavern Brawler mostly look terrible, Healer and Savage Attacker require fairly specialized builds to make sense, but alert/lucky/magic initiate/musician/skilled/tough are all useful on a broad variety of builds and none seems like a must have.
Look, I'm not a fan of fixed backgrounds either but there's no need for melodrama.
1) Acolyte isn't the only possible way to represent someone who grew up in a temple. A Wayfarer or even Criminal could have easily taken refuge in one of those repeatedly in their life, particularly when you think of a faith like Mask or Shar.
2) Ultimately, if what you want is something like the narrative trappings of Acolyte with different stat bonuses and feat, we'll presumably be able to do that via Custom Background.
According to this link, we should be able to use past backgrounds with whatever feat and ability scores we would like!
https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1785-the-backgrounds-and-origin-feats-in-the-2024#The_16_Backgrounds_in_the_2024_Players_Handbook
i just hope that when/if my past one is remade that I can still use the “custom” version I make.
So the only unknown one is Scribe, which could be Magic Initiate (Wizard or Cleric) since a scribe studies manuscripts, or Crafter since they also craft/copy said manuscripts.
Thanks! I’ll edit that into my list.
My guess for the Scribe is Skilled; Magic Initiate (Wizard) feels like it would be too close to the Sage. Skilled would allow you to make a knowledgeable scholar, rather than a proto-Wizard, which I think was missing somewhat previously.
It’d be nice to see some of the other UA backgrounds turn up later: perhaps in the big book of subclasses (and Artificer) that we keep predicting.
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ModeratorThe backgrounds in the book cover most character backstories. As was stated earlier, custom backgrounds should be seen as a world-building tool and DMs should be encouraged to work with their players to come up with custom backgrounds that fit their campaigns.
And if the backgrounds in the PHB don't work for you, but a background in another book does, then you can use one of those backgrounds. There is a sidebar on adapting older backgrounds, which basically involves choosing a custom ASI and origin feat.
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Well, choosing your class does tend to be the biggest decision in a character concept, so I can see why they’ve put that first. The order is fairly arbitrary though: I know I can go backwards and forwards through the choice of species, class and background while the concept takes shape.
I think the choice to present a fixed range of backgrounds is intended to showcase the narrative over the mechanics. I do prefer being able to customise the backgrounds (either modifying them or building one from scratch). That gives players much broader scope for putting together a package of features that reflect their characters’ backstories. On the other hand, it also gives even more scope for optimisation for the much-vilified “theory-crafters”. This, I don’t think taking the new system of backgrounds as evidence for WotC favouring either “role players” or “optimisers” is justified.
Even if restricted to the PHB backgrounds, we don’t need to be restricted by their apparent straitjackets. To further develop the idea of a character brought up in a religious institution, we could look at mediaeval monasteries and abbeys for inspiration. These were large, self-sufficient communities with people fulfilling many different roles. They needed Farmers and Artisans. Some members might be better portrayed as Hermits, Scribes or Sages. Some may have had other backgrounds before entering the abbey: perhaps Nobles, Criminals or Soldiers. Not every member of a religious community has to be an Acolyte. A bit of creativity should find something that’s a reasonable fit for both the backstory and the mechanical effectiveness of your character.
The purpose seems to be the simplification of character creation for new players. I think that's also why there's only ten origin feats. And it's done in a way that softly funnels players from wider rings of options for class and race to the backgrounds where out of all the options, there's only 1-2 backgrounds that compliment the previous choices. Like if I make a Fighter because I want a character that is good at attacking with weapons, only one origin feat directly affects all weapon attacks (savage attacker). Or if I wanted a tank, Tough is the obvious choice. With the origin feats tied to the backgrounds, the backgrounds themselves fall to the background.
Worth noting: the "Using Old Backgrounds at Character Creation" rules would include 2014's custom background rules, which (combined with the 2024 rules) are basically as flexible as the (supposed) 2024 custom background rules. So you can mix-and-match skill proficiencies, tool proficiencies, etc, with a feet and ASIs of choice.
I stongly suspect the new DMG rules for custom backgrounds will formalize that.
I appreciate we haven’t seen the final wording of the feats, but does it look like Savage Attacker will re-roll ALL the damage dice from a weapon attack, e.g. including Sneak Attack or Divine Smite?
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ModeratorThe guidance for using older backgrounds, and other character options, will be in the PHB.
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Yes, but the 2024 rules for custom backgrounds will be in the DMG. (I'm just pointing out that the 2024 PHB rules, by virtue of including the means to adapt 2014 backgrounds, will implicitly include custom background rules, because of 2014's custom background rules from 2014's PHB.)
This is something that never even occurred to me until it was mentioned in a UA video, when the 2014 rules were written *every* feat was at least a level 4 feat because that was the earliest anyone could take one. The variant human threw the balance out slightly and they’ve had to tweak and nerf a few for them to work as level 1 feats
With Magic Initiate it now specifies just Cleric, Wizard, or Druid.
Wonder why Bard, Warlock, and Sorcerer don't get the Magic Initiate option.
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For God's sake it is not. One of the complaints about Bards was how they could take spells from half-casters and unique classes spell lists way before those classes could. THIS as a big piece of feedback on the UA. Now a bard has to take a dip if they want to take a specific spell, and if that spell is higher on the list then is it even worth it to dip? Sounds to me like it was done to discourage optimized multiclass builds instead.
The other thing, the reason Magic Initiate is those three specific classes is because they are the most complete lists that emulate the arcane, primal and divine lists from the UA. Again, many people (myself included) provided feedback in the UA of the ability to poach thematic spells from classes like Warlock and Ranger with Magic Initiate and the arcane, primal and divine lists, and Thank God they listened to us.
Not everything WotC does in with malicious intent you know. The majority of the changes in the 2024 books were done with user feedback taken from the UA surveys. YES, that includes the Ranger changes.
Because all three of those classes (along with Paladin and Ranger) get unique spells that help to define their identity.
Multiclassing is optional. If you don't like dirty optimizers using it at your table, tell them you're not using that optional rule. Simple.
A multiclass dip is a much larger investment than a feat that you get for free at level one.
Getting a free feat at level 1 has been a popular house rule, so all feats were essentially level 1 feats in that circumstance.
Houserules don't matter though, no matter how popular. This is still a buff by RAW.
(Also, the devs have said featless games are actually the most popular.)
Honestly, it seems that the stereotyping we have associated with the various Race/Class combos are gone, only to be replaced with more stereotyping between Background and Class combos instead.
So, people will feel less discouraged from trying out Dwarven Wizards or the like, but Sailors won’t be Wizards.