This will definitely boost Daggerheart’s profile, but there’s no substantial reason to think that’s going to have a larger impact. Despite the way some people treat it, preference of RPG system isn’t mutually exclusive- there’s no reason people playing D&D will abandon it wholesale if Daggerheart does well. Just gives people options to move between.
Plus, on the topic of new content, do we have any notion of the scope DH is aiming for? Bringing on some veteran designers could mean they’re looking to go for a broad offering, or it could mean they’re looking to refine their core content thoroughly and focus on promoting that over a steady stream of new products.
The days of slow, methodical, tactical combat with squares and verbose combat architecture is something people have complained about for a very long time.
That's funny because I think many of the complaints about 5.0 was that it lacked some of the chunkiness of 3.5 and Pathfinder, and now 5.24 has brought some of that back. I think you underestimate the desire for have dynamic tactical combat; combined with rich story-telling.
Edit:
A timely personal footnote on the popularity of DnD - and why I don't think this move has a lasting impact.
My daughter's best friend just went off to a week-long Girl Scout camp where her entire schedule of events - the entire theme of her week, was playing DnD. Many of us are old enough to remember when we never even told another person that we played this game (I still feel that way with peers) yet we have a Girl Scout sponsored week-long resident camp dedicated to such. No one at that camp cares one bit about a change in employment of these two outstanding contributors to the hobby.
I have been a very out spoken supporter for the 2024 rules, but I must admit that I have not been super impressed with UA's that have come out this year and people I hang around that follow the playtests have voiced similar opinions. The general quality of the UAs along with Chris Perkins and Jeremy Crawford going to Darrington Press was the primary topic of discussion at the FLGS I was playing at today so if nothing else it got people's attention. Whether it will stay a hot topic is questionable, but it did move Daggerheart into the spotlight for some people. I know that I am going to be watching Darrington Press a little more closely to see what happens.
If its just going to be a continuation of their current strategy, they are definitely not going to make it.
Their current strategy of... making more stuff for the most popular edition of the game to ever exist, refining it with our direct feedback, and giving young up-and-coming designers a global platform in the process? What exactly do you think they should be diverting to then?
Personally, I would like to see Wizards of the Coast do something big, show us the real power of the franchise, but re-releasing a 10-year-old edition of the game is definitely not it. It landed so flat, it quite literally had zero impact. About the most lackluster event in D&D history.
Zero impact beyond months of buzz and rising profits every quarter since release... okay, sure.
My very first TTRPG experience was with D&D and my experience has been a love story with the game ever since. I believe that the 2024 rules improved on an already pretty great system. Crawford and Perkins took the feedback given over a decade and used it to improve their game and give it staying power for another decade, at least. Sales figures suggest vast approval of the upgrades. As a fan of D&D and Critical Role, I am largely pleased with the remastering of the rules.
I just had to tell one of my staff today that one person's accomplishments doesn't spell failure for another person; it is a win for Darrington Press to get these two big names, but that doesn't mean that it is a sign of D&D's or WotC's failings. Sometimes two people can get wins at the same time and the 2024 rules are a win. Mercer is not at war with WotC and D&D is not under threat. Two days ago we thought we were losing these two creative minds forever. Now we find out we haven't. I think that's a critical success for everyone, even those who don't ever touch Daggerheart, because they will continue to influence the TTRPG space.
If its just going to be a continuation of their current strategy, they are definitely not going to make it.
Their current strategy of... making more stuff for the most popular edition of the game to ever exist, refining it with our direct feedback, and giving young up-and-coming designers a global platform in the process? What exactly do you think they should be diverting to then?
Personally, I would like to see Wizards of the Coast do something big, show us the real power of the franchise, but re-releasing a 10-year-old edition of the game is definitely not it. It landed so flat, it quite literally had zero impact. About the most lackluster event in D&D history.
Zero impact beyond months of buzz and rising profits every quarter since release... okay, sure.
That is a very naive assessment of the current situation. Popularity and profits are always based on historical accounting, in RPG's it's usually 1-2 quarters behind any reflections. There is no doubt that D&D as a franchise and as a tradition in RPG is popular and I don't think that will ever change, but it's foolish to think that "officially branded D&D" is secured. People playing Pathfinder, Tales of Valor, DC20, and Draw Steel are all playing D&D, its just not the one Wizards of the Coast makes. Daggerheart is D&D by every definition of the word.
I'm talking about the future and the more practical reaction to the state of things. The reality is that Wizards of the Coast's reputation at best can be described as completely obliterated, the reviews of 2024 edition have been lackluster at best, the release schedule I would describe as pathetic, there is literally nothing to buy or get excited for. Some of the more interesting developments, like their 3d platform, failed.
I'm not suggesting that they suddenly re-design the game and abandon the D&D traditions on which the game is based and brought them their past success, I'm saying they need to put out some excitement for the future to make sure it doesn't fall behind. 5th edition is a 10 year old system, it had a great run, we all had a good time, but it's time for an update and the 2024 edition was not it. It was a reprint, good for a couple of months worth of buzz, but hardly a foundation for the next 10 years.
I promise you a year from now, D&D is no longer the highest selling RPG in the world anymore. Not unless something changes.
While I am happy for them, and sad at all the amazing talent lost at WotC, I am hopeful that they create amazing new things in the future. I do hope that Hasbro uses this time to find new and upcoming talent to pickup where the last generation left, and not move to AI junk. But who am I to tell a billion dollar company that Profits over product is why the world is terrible these days.
Of course this thread is devolving into the usual "D&D is totally dying this time!" conspiracies. I think it is really important to remember that Crawford has been telegraphing his intent to leave for years - he was very outspoken about the fact that D&D was too heavy on upper management like himself and Perkins, and that they would one day need to step aside to ensure the game stayed fresh. Both of them waited until they finished their swan song, both of them left after, and then both of them joined a smaller company so they could stay employed doing what they love, but in a lower-stakes, new environment that actually needed their talent (as opposed to D&D, where they had a new generation of highly trained people ready to step out of their shadow). Despite what the usual suspects want you to think, not a single part of that is weird or abnormal; it happens all the time with high ranking people in a whole bunch of fields.
It also amuses me that the narrative is always "D&D is dying" when a case can just as easily be made for "Critical Role has concerns about Daggerheart and brought in talent to save it." Arguably more easily, given the fact Crawford telegraphed this move years in advance, it is nothing new, and one of the members of Critical Role (Sam) has made a few snide comments mocking elements of their system during the livestream literally designed to showcase it.
Which, of course, is not to say that is what is happening either, nor open some kind of conspiratorial conversation about Daggerheart. Merely to showcase that we have very little information, and it is possible to spin any kind of conspiracy you want. Kind of shows that turning this data into some kind of "proof" to push any agenda is rather silly.
Of course this thread is devolving into the usual "D&D is totally dying this time!" conspiracies. I think it is really important to remember that Crawford has been telegraphing his intent to leave for years - he was very outspoken about the fact that D&D was too heavy on upper management like himself and Perkins, and that they would one day need to step aside to ensure the game stayed fresh. Both of them waited until they finished their swan song, both of them left after, and then both of them joined a smaller company so they could stay employed doing what they love, but in a lower-stakes, new environment that actually needed their talent (as opposed to D&D, where they had a new generation of highly trained people ready to step out of their shadow). Despite what the usual suspects want you to think, not a single part of that is weird or abnormal; it happens all the time with high ranking people in a whole bunch of fields.
It also amuses me that the narrative is always "D&D is dying" when a case can just as easily be made for "Critical Role has concerns about Daggerheart and brought in talent to save it." Arguably more easily, given the fact Crawford telegraphed this move years in advance, it is nothing new, and one of the members of Critical Role (Sam) has made a few snide comments mocking elements of their system during the livestream literally designed to showcase it.
Which, of course, is not to say that is what is happening either, nor open some kind of conspiratorial conversation about Daggerheart. Merely to showcase that we have very little information, and it is possible to spin any kind of conspiracy you want. Kind of shows that turning this data into some kind of "proof" to push any agenda is rather silly.
Yes, or you could argue that every time someone says anything that doesn't tow the line of "D&D is the best, Wizard is the best etc..etc.." it's labeled a conspiracy theory in a vain effort to smear the poster and make them out to be a nut job.
People have completely lost the ability to debate, make points, and have conversations without adding a "you're crazy if you think this" at the end. Whatever happened to civil discourse?
Of course this thread is devolving into the usual "D&D is totally dying this time!" conspiracies.
I have many comments on this, but as this thread is about our favorite D&D leaders moving to new endeavors I will not derail this thread by responding to your points. But instead will make a new thread on the subject of "Is D&D dying"
I'm talking about the future and the more practical reaction to the state of things.
I'm well aware of what you're talking about, the very same wild speculation the mods asked us to refrain from in this thread. There's a separate thread for the trajectory of D&D now so I'll not be discussing that topic further here.
(And for the record, adding terms like "more practical reaction" and "reality of the situation" to wild speculation, does not stop it from being wild speculation.)
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This will definitely boost Daggerheart’s profile, but there’s no substantial reason to think that’s going to have a larger impact. Despite the way some people treat it, preference of RPG system isn’t mutually exclusive- there’s no reason people playing D&D will abandon it wholesale if Daggerheart does well. Just gives people options to move between.
Plus, on the topic of new content, do we have any notion of the scope DH is aiming for? Bringing on some veteran designers could mean they’re looking to go for a broad offering, or it could mean they’re looking to refine their core content thoroughly and focus on promoting that over a steady stream of new products.
That's funny because I think many of the complaints about 5.0 was that it lacked some of the chunkiness of 3.5 and Pathfinder, and now 5.24 has brought some of that back. I think you underestimate the desire for have dynamic tactical combat; combined with rich story-telling.
Edit:
A timely personal footnote on the popularity of DnD - and why I don't think this move has a lasting impact.
My daughter's best friend just went off to a week-long Girl Scout camp where her entire schedule of events - the entire theme of her week, was playing DnD. Many of us are old enough to remember when we never even told another person that we played this game (I still feel that way with peers) yet we have a Girl Scout sponsored week-long resident camp dedicated to such. No one at that camp cares one bit about a change in employment of these two outstanding contributors to the hobby.
I have been a very out spoken supporter for the 2024 rules, but I must admit that I have not been super impressed with UA's that have come out this year and people I hang around that follow the playtests have voiced similar opinions. The general quality of the UAs along with Chris Perkins and Jeremy Crawford going to Darrington Press was the primary topic of discussion at the FLGS I was playing at today so if nothing else it got people's attention. Whether it will stay a hot topic is questionable, but it did move Daggerheart into the spotlight for some people. I know that I am going to be watching Darrington Press a little more closely to see what happens.
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Their current strategy of... making more stuff for the most popular edition of the game to ever exist, refining it with our direct feedback, and giving young up-and-coming designers a global platform in the process? What exactly do you think they should be diverting to then?
Zero impact beyond months of buzz and rising profits every quarter since release... okay, sure.
My very first TTRPG experience was with D&D and my experience has been a love story with the game ever since. I believe that the 2024 rules improved on an already pretty great system. Crawford and Perkins took the feedback given over a decade and used it to improve their game and give it staying power for another decade, at least. Sales figures suggest vast approval of the upgrades. As a fan of D&D and Critical Role, I am largely pleased with the remastering of the rules.
I just had to tell one of my staff today that one person's accomplishments doesn't spell failure for another person; it is a win for Darrington Press to get these two big names, but that doesn't mean that it is a sign of D&D's or WotC's failings. Sometimes two people can get wins at the same time and the 2024 rules are a win. Mercer is not at war with WotC and D&D is not under threat. Two days ago we thought we were losing these two creative minds forever. Now we find out we haven't. I think that's a critical success for everyone, even those who don't ever touch Daggerheart, because they will continue to influence the TTRPG space.
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That is a very naive assessment of the current situation. Popularity and profits are always based on historical accounting, in RPG's it's usually 1-2 quarters behind any reflections. There is no doubt that D&D as a franchise and as a tradition in RPG is popular and I don't think that will ever change, but it's foolish to think that "officially branded D&D" is secured. People playing Pathfinder, Tales of Valor, DC20, and Draw Steel are all playing D&D, its just not the one Wizards of the Coast makes. Daggerheart is D&D by every definition of the word.
I'm talking about the future and the more practical reaction to the state of things. The reality is that Wizards of the Coast's reputation at best can be described as completely obliterated, the reviews of 2024 edition have been lackluster at best, the release schedule I would describe as pathetic, there is literally nothing to buy or get excited for. Some of the more interesting developments, like their 3d platform, failed.
I'm not suggesting that they suddenly re-design the game and abandon the D&D traditions on which the game is based and brought them their past success, I'm saying they need to put out some excitement for the future to make sure it doesn't fall behind. 5th edition is a 10 year old system, it had a great run, we all had a good time, but it's time for an update and the 2024 edition was not it. It was a reprint, good for a couple of months worth of buzz, but hardly a foundation for the next 10 years.
I promise you a year from now, D&D is no longer the highest selling RPG in the world anymore. Not unless something changes.
While I am happy for them, and sad at all the amazing talent lost at WotC, I am hopeful that they create amazing new things in the future. I do hope that Hasbro uses this time to find new and upcoming talent to pickup where the last generation left, and not move to AI junk. But who am I to tell a billion dollar company that Profits over product is why the world is terrible these days.
Of course this thread is devolving into the usual "D&D is totally dying this time!" conspiracies. I think it is really important to remember that Crawford has been telegraphing his intent to leave for years - he was very outspoken about the fact that D&D was too heavy on upper management like himself and Perkins, and that they would one day need to step aside to ensure the game stayed fresh. Both of them waited until they finished their swan song, both of them left after, and then both of them joined a smaller company so they could stay employed doing what they love, but in a lower-stakes, new environment that actually needed their talent (as opposed to D&D, where they had a new generation of highly trained people ready to step out of their shadow). Despite what the usual suspects want you to think, not a single part of that is weird or abnormal; it happens all the time with high ranking people in a whole bunch of fields.
It also amuses me that the narrative is always "D&D is dying" when a case can just as easily be made for "Critical Role has concerns about Daggerheart and brought in talent to save it." Arguably more easily, given the fact Crawford telegraphed this move years in advance, it is nothing new, and one of the members of Critical Role (Sam) has made a few snide comments mocking elements of their system during the livestream literally designed to showcase it.
Which, of course, is not to say that is what is happening either, nor open some kind of conspiratorial conversation about Daggerheart. Merely to showcase that we have very little information, and it is possible to spin any kind of conspiracy you want. Kind of shows that turning this data into some kind of "proof" to push any agenda is rather silly.
Yes, or you could argue that every time someone says anything that doesn't tow the line of "D&D is the best, Wizard is the best etc..etc.." it's labeled a conspiracy theory in a vain effort to smear the poster and make them out to be a nut job.
People have completely lost the ability to debate, make points, and have conversations without adding a "you're crazy if you think this" at the end. Whatever happened to civil discourse?
I have many comments on this, but as this thread is about our favorite D&D leaders moving to new endeavors I will not derail this thread by responding to your points. But instead will make a new thread on the subject of "Is D&D dying"
I'm well aware of what you're talking about, the very same wild speculation the mods asked us to refrain from in this thread. There's a separate thread for the trajectory of D&D now so I'll not be discussing that topic further here.
(And for the record, adding terms like "more practical reaction" and "reality of the situation" to wild speculation, does not stop it from being wild speculation.)