Me and my group played a session today and one of my players got hit by a death ray from a beholder and no one in the team had revivify so he died. I decided to really try and describe it as good as I could and the other players really roleplayed it well with his funeral and stuff. The player seemed to be alright with it (or at least as alright as you can be with your character dying) and I told him he could take as much time as he wanted to make a new character and tell me when he comes up with an idea. I'm just wondering if there is anything else I should do to make the player feel better or make the aftermath of his death feel heavier. Thanks in advance to anyone who answers this!
As someone who has a lot of experience killing players (my groups know they need at least two members with Revivify at all times, and that even resurrection magic is not 100% effective in my worlds), here are the lessons I have learned:
(1) Listen to that player and pay attention to them. Exhibiting basic empathy and providing them what they need goes a long way. That could be talking to them about their feelings, but it could be leaving them alone, particularly if they’re not broken up in it. That is going to be very fact specific and depends on your and the players’ relationship, so only you can really decide how to proceed.
(2) Be sure to pay attention to the other party members as well. Sometimes other players might even take the character’s death harder than the character’s player.
(3) Get the new character in there fast, and build an encounter that allows that new character to use their abilities and showcase their personality. The new character has to play catch up in terms of the other party understanding who they are and what they do in combat, so hitting the ground running helps embed the new character into the party.
(4) Let this be a learning moment for you. That does not necessarily mean “learn so you don’t kill again” (I think that’s the wrong lesson a lot of DMs take from their first death). It could even mean “hey, I realized my party wanted a harder game with more risk.” Regardless, every character death is a chance to grow as a DM, refining your skills for encounter balance to come.
Caerwyn_Glyndwr had some awesome feedback for your question, and I appreciated reading it, so thank you for asking your question.
On a totally separate line of thought, incorporating what the players did with Roleplaying the Funeral and everything, if the player is open to it, you can describe what happens to the character after they die. Even going so far as having them on a separate solo-adventure running in tandem of the main story.
One fun take I heard about, is someone that does this having the Grim Reaper come to collect their soul and the Grim Reaper is played as "Grim" from The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. Hey during that solo adventure, maybe they will even find a way back to the living, but maybe in a different body, or they come back as a Reborn.
Just a suggestion :)
Cheers!
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Breathe, dragons; sing of the First World, forged out of chaos and painted with beauty. Sing of Bahamut, the Platinum, molding the shape of the mountains and rivers; Sing too of Chromatic Tiamat, painting all over the infinite canvas. Partnered, they woke in the darkness; partnered, they labored in acts of creation.
We JUST had a near TPK, in fact we haven't started our new campaign yet (Saturday!) but I'm from the old school, I started playing in 1978 so to quote the great Ivan Drago: "If he dies, he dies."
It's a different game now, and a surprise when a character dies. Our DM, also from the late 70's used to carry around a 60% character death rate in his campaigns, no joke. We always had a backup character ready to go. Fun times!
Me and my group played a session today and one of my players got hit by a death ray from a beholder and no one in the team had revivify so he died. I decided to really try and describe it as good as I could and the other players really roleplayed it well with his funeral and stuff. The player seemed to be alright with it (or at least as alright as you can be with your character dying) and I told him he could take as much time as he wanted to make a new character and tell me when he comes up with an idea. I'm just wondering if there is anything else I should do to make the player feel better or make the aftermath of his death feel heavier. Thanks in advance to anyone who answers this!
I think the funeral and all is a bet much, but starting a new character is about that can be done in this case, unless the PC's decided they were going to find and pay for a Cleric to fully raise them.
Me and my group played a session today and one of my players got hit by a death ray from a beholder and no one in the team had revivify so he died. I decided to really try and describe it as good as I could and the other players really roleplayed it well with his funeral and stuff. The player seemed to be alright with it (or at least as alright as you can be with your character dying) and I told him he could take as much time as he wanted to make a new character and tell me when he comes up with an idea. I'm just wondering if there is anything else I should do to make the player feel better or make the aftermath of his death feel heavier. Thanks in advance to anyone who answers this!
When I kill off a PC in a game, the replacement PC is immediately inserted into the slot of the dead PC. All players have a backup PC ready to go. PC death is not supposed to be some rare, emotionally charged thing. Last night, in a different game system (hint, very popular, massive Kickstarter campaigns), it was a good night. Only one PC died. The players ran away from the situation, and the body was taken by the BBEG and dissolved into a type of monster.
An opinion that is not shared by many. It is an individual experience and I think it is pretty uncool to presuppose your personal views as some objective truth. It is an emotionally charged thing for enough people that the DMG validates that fact in the section on PC death. Some people want that. Some people have fun with being so invested in their characters that their deaths would leave them shaken. I would ask that you do not imply that these people are playing wrong.
An opinion that is not shared by many. It is an individual experience and I think it is pretty uncool to presuppose your personal views as some objective truth. It is an emotionally charged thing for enough people that the DMG validates that fact in the section on PC death. Some people want that. Some people have fun with being so invested in their characters that their deaths would leave them shaken. I would ask that you do not imply that these people are playing wrong.
It is also an opinion that IS shared by many who started playing before 3e/4e. Character death was a very real part of the game and in many cases a positive to the playing experience. You had "skin in the game", it wasn't about telling your story from beginning to end...well, it was but that end might come at any time. The stakes were higher I suppose when any decision might be the one that sends you back to character generation. Justafarmer isn't implying that anyone is playing wrong any more than you are. His opinion and how he runs his table is just as valid as any other. My character who died just last Saturday at 14th level made a heroic sacrifice to save another character. Roll a new character time because while he will be remembered, there will be no grieving. Anyway, enjoy your game as we enjoy ours!
Literally noting in my post implies that being unmoved by character death is wrong. If you disagree, underline the text where this implication can be found in my post. My post literally validates his opinion as far as it applies to him. See the text 'It is an individual experience'.
Conversely, Justafarmer does imply that his opinion is a universal truth with the text 'PC death is not supposed to be some rare, emotionally charged thing'. This is a claim of fact, not an opinion or personal truth. It is also an opinion that is directly opposed by the text of the core rules. That is not the same as saying PC death should be an emotional experience. But the text does explicitly say that it can be and for DMs to make room for that if it is to the player and the table.
I don't put hidden meanings in my posts because I don't have to dodge bans every two weeks based on my held opinions. You can take my words for exactly what they are on the page.
The important part is that there's tension. Tension can be achieved by making every decision likely to result in death, or have death be very meaningful. The thing is, you can't have both. If death is meaningfully likely in any given decision, characters will die and that creates distance. People aren't going to invest the same way in a character that can only expect to live a couple of levels that they would with one they think will survive to L15.
Whichever is most fun for you is the right way. It's not true that "PC death is not supposed to be some rare, emotionally charged thing". It's what suits your table.
Personally, I prefer rare and meaningful. There are sources of tension other than potential death, and they function better when you're invested in the character. I'm going to care a lot more about, and therefore feel tension from, the question of whether Pluto Jackson, my character for the last fifty or so sessions, manages to win his rivalry with Jupiter Jones who has been taunting and provoking Pluto for six of the last ten sessions than I would for Stabby McStabberson XVI that I rolled up last night because Stabby McStabberson XV got killed by a rusty nail trap last week, five minutes after Stabby McStabberson XIV got killed by falling over the edge of a cliff.
But that's me. I like those other sources of tension and storytelling etc. Others are perfectly free to play other ways if they prefer, and they should. Play it the way you enjoy. If you want to play an individualised wargame...then go ahead. That doesn't make anyone else's style any more or less right.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Me and my group played a session today and one of my players got hit by a death ray from a beholder and no one in the team had revivify so he died. I decided to really try and describe it as good as I could and the other players really roleplayed it well with his funeral and stuff. The player seemed to be alright with it (or at least as alright as you can be with your character dying) and I told him he could take as much time as he wanted to make a new character and tell me when he comes up with an idea. I'm just wondering if there is anything else I should do to make the player feel better or make the aftermath of his death feel heavier. Thanks in advance to anyone who answers this!
When I kill off a PC in a game, the replacement PC is immediately inserted into the slot of the dead PC. All players have a backup PC ready to go. PC death is not supposed to be some rare, emotionally charged thing. Last night, in a different game system (hint, very popular, massive Kickstarter campaigns), it was a good night. Only one PC died. The players ran away from the situation, and the body was taken by the BBEG and dissolved into a type of monster.
It's funny you said this because either saw or read an interview where Gary Cygax said he had lots of back up PC, and said he laughed or something when heard about how depressed some players get when their character died. I am guessing he may have made that comment before people were leveling as high as 50, 60 and sometimes 100th level.
Last week in game my character died. The game has the DM doing the death rolls (for a little suspense) - it does make it stressful if you're character is unconcious!
Anyway, DM rolled an 8 and Nat 1 for the death saves - so dead character. (No one else in the party chose to come and stabilise my character) - they seemed pretty shocked (and the DM was also shocked) when the DM announced "oh no, I rolled a Nat 1 - you're dead".
We're pretty used to characters dying - my Character also has a special boon granted which means he can come back. The DM to his credit spoke to me afterwards, and we came up with a plan - I've rolled a new character in case it's needed, depending on what the group does next session. While I know there's a possibility my character can come back it's still pretty "oh crap" when it does happen.
It will be very interesting to see what the group does next week.......
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Odo Proudfoot - Lvl 10 Halfling Monk - Princes of the Apocalypse (Campaign Finished)
The important part is that there's tension. Tension can be achieved by making every decision likely to result in death, or have death be very meaningful. The thing is, you can't have both. If death is meaningfully likely in any given decision, characters will die and that creates distance. People aren't going to invest the same way in a character that can only expect to live a couple of levels that they would with one they think will survive to L15.
Whichever is most fun for you is the right way. It's not true that "PC death is not supposed to be some rare, emotionally charged thing". It's what suits your table.
Personally, I prefer rare and meaningful. There are sources of tension other than potential death, and they function better when you're invested in the character. I'm going to care a lot more about, and therefore feel tension from, the question of whether Pluto Jackson, my character for the last fifty or so sessions, manages to win his rivalry with Jupiter Jones who has been taunting and provoking Pluto for six of the last ten sessions than I would for Stabby McStabberson XVI that I rolled up last night because Stabby McStabberson XV got killed by a rusty nail trap last week, five minutes after Stabby McStabberson XIV got killed by falling over the edge of a cliff.
But that's me. I like those other sources of tension and storytelling etc. Others are perfectly free to play other ways if they prefer, and they should. Play it the way you enjoy. If you want to play an individualised wargame...then go ahead. That doesn't make anyone else's style any more or less right.
I'd argue that the game doesn't even have to have tension. Many players prefer there to be some tension, but the real question is whether or not everyone at the table is happy. If you have a bunch of players who neither want or need tension in the game, it's fine as long as they're having fun. Not every campaign has to be high stakes with a serious chance of PC death.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
In game death has evolved over the last 50 years. Back in the 1e days it was common to the point of some DMs being known as “killer DMs” for the amount of deaths in their games. No one liked losing PCs but it was an accepted part of the game that “everyone” knew. As a DM back then I warned folks before we started that I typically had a 25% kill rate ( it was actually probably lower but that set a tone). Today, deaths are somewhat less likely but still occur. Part of what is needed is to remind players that deaths and loss of characters occur so be prepared for it. That said the longer you’ve played a PC the more invested you are in it so the more “annoyed” you are at their deaths. On the other hand it’s a game and getting so emotionally involved/invested in them that the loss is a real world trauma is problematic.
I say this as a relatively new DM, none of my team have died yet but they nearly have once or twice!
Let your players decide how the death is dealt with, and feel free to ask them how they feel about it so you can shift the campaign accordingly. If they really don't care that much, allow them to just go "whatever" and move on. If everyone's really invested in the character and they die, allow them to roleplay their characters' responses to the death. But definitely ask, because it could seem rude to move on immediately or depressing to linger on the death.
Just ask your players.
As per the question of replacing a character, let them make a new PC. Try to include the player in your campaign even in that time when they don't technically have a character. Maybe let them roleplay NPCs or even run monsters.
To avoid a case of "Where's the danger if I'm just able to roll up Stabby McStabberson VI as soon as Stabby McStabberson V dies?" (thank you sabin76) make sure their new character is distinctly different from their previous character, and not just old-character-2.0. They may want to reference their old character or include them in the backstory, just to keep old character's memory alive, and you can decide how you want to deal with that but I think it's a good way to add storytelling.
TBH, my campaigns don't tend to sweat much about character deaths. Then again we have four Druids and a Cleric in one, so nobody really dies a lot there. If your team is putting lots of narrative into it, that's great that they're thinking. But whatever you do, don't let the players themselves feel sad. Remind them it's just a game.
Sorry if that all came off as me telling you what to do. It's really all just suggestions and how I myself would respond to character deaths. Make of it what you will.
Happy playing, LooeiBaboowi!
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I have 67 D&D characters. SIXTY-SEVEN. More ideas are always welcome though, especially for Rogues and Monks. Let's see if I can get to 100
"It’s about time we fixed things instead of blowing them all to h***." -- Vi "Live deliciously." -- Tasha the Witch Queen "Be yourself. Because nobody else is gonna do it for you." -- Me
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Me and my group played a session today and one of my players got hit by a death ray from a beholder and no one in the team had revivify so he died. I decided to really try and describe it as good as I could and the other players really roleplayed it well with his funeral and stuff. The player seemed to be alright with it (or at least as alright as you can be with your character dying) and I told him he could take as much time as he wanted to make a new character and tell me when he comes up with an idea. I'm just wondering if there is anything else I should do to make the player feel better or make the aftermath of his death feel heavier. Thanks in advance to anyone who answers this!
As someone who has a lot of experience killing players (my groups know they need at least two members with Revivify at all times, and that even resurrection magic is not 100% effective in my worlds), here are the lessons I have learned:
(1) Listen to that player and pay attention to them. Exhibiting basic empathy and providing them what they need goes a long way. That could be talking to them about their feelings, but it could be leaving them alone, particularly if they’re not broken up in it. That is going to be very fact specific and depends on your and the players’ relationship, so only you can really decide how to proceed.
(2) Be sure to pay attention to the other party members as well. Sometimes other players might even take the character’s death harder than the character’s player.
(3) Get the new character in there fast, and build an encounter that allows that new character to use their abilities and showcase their personality. The new character has to play catch up in terms of the other party understanding who they are and what they do in combat, so hitting the ground running helps embed the new character into the party.
(4) Let this be a learning moment for you. That does not necessarily mean “learn so you don’t kill again” (I think that’s the wrong lesson a lot of DMs take from their first death). It could even mean “hey, I realized my party wanted a harder game with more risk.” Regardless, every character death is a chance to grow as a DM, refining your skills for encounter balance to come.
Greetings LooeiBaboowi,
Caerwyn_Glyndwr had some awesome feedback for your question, and I appreciated reading it, so thank you for asking your question.
On a totally separate line of thought, incorporating what the players did with Roleplaying the Funeral and everything, if the player is open to it, you can describe what happens to the character after they die. Even going so far as having them on a separate solo-adventure running in tandem of the main story.
One fun take I heard about, is someone that does this having the Grim Reaper come to collect their soul and the Grim Reaper is played as "Grim" from The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. Hey during that solo adventure, maybe they will even find a way back to the living, but maybe in a different body, or they come back as a Reborn.
Just a suggestion :)
Cheers!
Breathe, dragons; sing of the First World, forged out of chaos and painted with beauty.
Sing of Bahamut, the Platinum, molding the shape of the mountains and rivers;
Sing too of Chromatic Tiamat, painting all over the infinite canvas.
Partnered, they woke in the darkness; partnered, they labored in acts of creation.
We JUST had a near TPK, in fact we haven't started our new campaign yet (Saturday!) but I'm from the old school, I started playing in 1978 so to quote the great Ivan Drago: "If he dies, he dies."
It's a different game now, and a surprise when a character dies. Our DM, also from the late 70's used to carry around a 60% character death rate in his campaigns, no joke. We always had a backup character ready to go. Fun times!
I think the funeral and all is a bet much, but starting a new character is about that can be done in this case, unless the PC's decided they were going to find and pay for a Cleric to fully raise them.
An opinion that is not shared by many. It is an individual experience and I think it is pretty uncool to presuppose your personal views as some objective truth. It is an emotionally charged thing for enough people that the DMG validates that fact in the section on PC death. Some people want that. Some people have fun with being so invested in their characters that their deaths would leave them shaken. I would ask that you do not imply that these people are playing wrong.
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Literally noting in my post implies that being unmoved by character death is wrong. If you disagree, underline the text where this implication can be found in my post. My post literally validates his opinion as far as it applies to him. See the text 'It is an individual experience'.
Conversely, Justafarmer does imply that his opinion is a universal truth with the text 'PC death is not supposed to be some rare, emotionally charged thing'. This is a claim of fact, not an opinion or personal truth. It is also an opinion that is directly opposed by the text of the core rules. That is not the same as saying PC death should be an emotional experience. But the text does explicitly say that it can be and for DMs to make room for that if it is to the player and the table.
I don't put hidden meanings in my posts because I don't have to dodge bans every two weeks based on my held opinions. You can take my words for exactly what they are on the page.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock
Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
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Check out my life-changing
Characters do need to die some times. Otherwise, the players will eventually just assume that there is no real danger in any situation.
I would counter with, "Where's the danger if I'm just able to roll up Stabby McStabberson VI as soon as Stabby McStabberson V dies?"
The only wrong way to play DnD is for you to play a way that's unenjoyable for you and your table.
Death by a thousand cuts Vs one big blow.
The important part is that there's tension. Tension can be achieved by making every decision likely to result in death, or have death be very meaningful. The thing is, you can't have both. If death is meaningfully likely in any given decision, characters will die and that creates distance. People aren't going to invest the same way in a character that can only expect to live a couple of levels that they would with one they think will survive to L15.
Whichever is most fun for you is the right way. It's not true that "PC death is not supposed to be some rare, emotionally charged thing". It's what suits your table.
Personally, I prefer rare and meaningful. There are sources of tension other than potential death, and they function better when you're invested in the character. I'm going to care a lot more about, and therefore feel tension from, the question of whether Pluto Jackson, my character for the last fifty or so sessions, manages to win his rivalry with Jupiter Jones who has been taunting and provoking Pluto for six of the last ten sessions than I would for Stabby McStabberson XVI that I rolled up last night because Stabby McStabberson XV got killed by a rusty nail trap last week, five minutes after Stabby McStabberson XIV got killed by falling over the edge of a cliff.
But that's me. I like those other sources of tension and storytelling etc. Others are perfectly free to play other ways if they prefer, and they should. Play it the way you enjoy. If you want to play an individualised wargame...then go ahead. That doesn't make anyone else's style any more or less right.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
It's funny you said this because either saw or read an interview where Gary Cygax said he had lots of back up PC, and said he laughed or something when heard about how depressed some players get when their character died. I am guessing he may have made that comment before people were leveling as high as 50, 60 and sometimes 100th level.
Last week in game my character died. The game has the DM doing the death rolls (for a little suspense) - it does make it stressful if you're character is unconcious!
Anyway, DM rolled an 8 and Nat 1 for the death saves - so dead character. (No one else in the party chose to come and stabilise my character) - they seemed pretty shocked (and the DM was also shocked) when the DM announced "oh no, I rolled a Nat 1 - you're dead".
We're pretty used to characters dying - my Character also has a special boon granted which means he can come back. The DM to his credit spoke to me afterwards, and we came up with a plan - I've rolled a new character in case it's needed, depending on what the group does next session. While I know there's a possibility my character can come back it's still pretty "oh crap" when it does happen.
It will be very interesting to see what the group does next week.......
Odo Proudfoot - Lvl 10 Halfling Monk - Princes of the Apocalypse (Campaign Finished)
Orryn Pebblefoot - Lvl 5 Rock Gnome Wizard (Deceased) - Waterdeep: Dragon Heist (Deceased)
Anerin Ap Tewdr - Lvl 5 Human (Variant) Bard (College of Valor) - Waterdeep: Dragon Heist
I'd argue that the game doesn't even have to have tension. Many players prefer there to be some tension, but the real question is whether or not everyone at the table is happy. If you have a bunch of players who neither want or need tension in the game, it's fine as long as they're having fun. Not every campaign has to be high stakes with a serious chance of PC death.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
In game death has evolved over the last 50 years. Back in the 1e days it was common to the point of some DMs being known as “killer DMs” for the amount of deaths in their games. No one liked losing PCs but it was an accepted part of the game that “everyone” knew. As a DM back then I warned folks before we started that I typically had a 25% kill rate ( it was actually probably lower but that set a tone). Today, deaths are somewhat less likely but still occur. Part of what is needed is to remind players that deaths and loss of characters occur so be prepared for it. That said the longer you’ve played a PC the more invested you are in it so the more “annoyed” you are at their deaths. On the other hand it’s a game and getting so emotionally involved/invested in them that the loss is a real world trauma is problematic.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I say this as a relatively new DM, none of my team have died yet but they nearly have once or twice!
Let your players decide how the death is dealt with, and feel free to ask them how they feel about it so you can shift the campaign accordingly. If they really don't care that much, allow them to just go "whatever" and move on. If everyone's really invested in the character and they die, allow them to roleplay their characters' responses to the death. But definitely ask, because it could seem rude to move on immediately or depressing to linger on the death.
Just ask your players.
As per the question of replacing a character, let them make a new PC. Try to include the player in your campaign even in that time when they don't technically have a character. Maybe let them roleplay NPCs or even run monsters.
To avoid a case of "Where's the danger if I'm just able to roll up Stabby McStabberson VI as soon as Stabby McStabberson V dies?" (thank you sabin76) make sure their new character is distinctly different from their previous character, and not just old-character-2.0. They may want to reference their old character or include them in the backstory, just to keep old character's memory alive, and you can decide how you want to deal with that but I think it's a good way to add storytelling.
TBH, my campaigns don't tend to sweat much about character deaths. Then again we have four Druids and a Cleric in one, so nobody really dies a lot there. If your team is putting lots of narrative into it, that's great that they're thinking. But whatever you do, don't let the players themselves feel sad. Remind them it's just a game.
Sorry if that all came off as me telling you what to do. It's really all just suggestions and how I myself would respond to character deaths. Make of it what you will.
Happy playing, LooeiBaboowi!
I have 67 D&D characters. SIXTY-SEVEN. More ideas are always welcome though, especially for Rogues and Monks. Let's see if I can get to 100
"It’s about time we fixed things instead of blowing them all to h***." -- Vi
"Live deliciously." -- Tasha the Witch Queen
"Be yourself. Because nobody else is gonna do it for you." -- Me