on point of how i regard orcs is to say that due to rampant imbreeding the large majority of the orc population are dumb brutes with extremely violent personalities and poor self control leading of course to being chaotic evil not due to nature or nurture but due to genetic defects and possible sociopathy/psychobathy due to hundreds of generations of imbreeding
while small populations of outliers are still literate proud hunter gather tribes with a strong warrior culture and a moral code falling in that the quote on quote civillised orcs are true neutral.
i also enjoy making the destinction between a imbred brute and a neutral tribemen by having the bad orcs have either no hair or stark white hair and then having "good orcs have red/brown/nearly black green/orange hair"
other destinctions are clothing with uncivillised orcs looking and dressing like barbaraians and the civillised ones dressing in a way reminicent of celtic warriors the kinds of people that made the vikings think twice about raiding the scotish isles
I'm chiming in because a few people have brought up this idea:
"Orcs are predisposed to evil" or "Orcs struggle with their nature to not be evil".
The issue here is that that kind of mentality often mirrors what you hear in modern culture about "others". "People from that country are just naturally... " and similar sentiments. While DND is a fantasy game that takes place in a fictional world that we are simply describing, there is a value in recalling that the attitudes we show in play can be reflective of attitudes in the real world.
I propose shifting focus to "this society strongly encourages X" and "people who grew up in this culture are likely to put a value on Y and Z". It still gives the room for any sentient creature to make a choice but it does provide for some level of generalization on creatures from that area/ culture/ background. It might seem a small thing but having worked with people from marginalized and often maligned communities it can be enough of a different to help them feel welcome in at the table.
To that end and in line with the OP: Orcs aren't evil. Every individual Orc makes a choice, influenced by their personal history, to do evil or not. Some may be trained to do evil and some may have chosen to do so horrible of an evil that redemption is out of reach (aka guilt free enemies). But unless they lack sentience, I think it's better to avoid saying anything is prone to a good/evil or has an affinity for such.
Seriously though, you like evil orcs? Make them evil in your setting. This has literally no effect on the game as it is played, it is just an ideological debate.
Personally I enjoy the feral cannibal halflings of Dark Sun but I'm not going to demand that becomes the default halfling flavor.
In my campaign orcs are generally evil. There can be exceptions but they have far more chaotic evil individuals in their spiecies than elves, dwarves, gnomes or other demihumans in general.
I'm chiming in because a few people have brought up this idea:
"Orcs are predisposed to evil" or "Orcs struggle with their nature to not be evil".
The issue here is that that kind of mentality often mirrors what you hear in modern culture about "others". "People from that country are just naturally... " and similar sentiments. While DND is a fantasy game that takes place in a fictional world that we are simply describing, there is a value in recalling that the attitudes we show in play can be reflective of attitudes in the real world.
I propose shifting focus to "this society strongly encourages X" and "people who grew up in this culture are likely to put a value on Y and Z". It still gives the room for any sentient creature to make a choice but it does provide for some level of generalization on creatures from that area/ culture/ background. It might seem a small thing but having worked with people from marginalized and often maligned communities it can be enough of a different to help them feel welcome in at the table.
To that end and in line with the OP: Orcs aren't evil. Every individual Orc makes a choice, influenced by their personal history, to do evil or not. Some may be trained to do evil and some may have chosen to do so horrible of an evil that redemption is out of reach (aka guilt free enemies). But unless they lack sentience, I think it's better to avoid saying anything is prone to a good/evil or has an affinity for such.
Modern racism doesn't have the convenience of literal actual gods literally influencing a race's nature with literal magic/divine power. Orcs don't have to be generally evil in every setting, and indeed they aren't. In eberron they are a normal civilized race (goblins too. Eberron is great). In the forgotten realms, they are made by an evil, bloodthirsty god in his own image, and yes their culture generally reinforces their supernaturally imposed nature. It is fantasy, unrealistic things like races created by gods for gods is part of it.
This thread has been inactive for three years and did not need to be raised from the dead to kick of an argument that has been done more times than "you start in a tavern". As such, it will locked
on point of how i regard orcs is to say that due to rampant imbreeding the large majority of the orc population are dumb brutes with extremely violent personalities and poor self control leading of course to being chaotic evil not due to nature or nurture but due to genetic defects and possible sociopathy/psychobathy due to hundreds of generations of imbreeding
while small populations of outliers are still literate proud hunter gather tribes with a strong warrior culture and a moral code falling in that the quote on quote civillised orcs are true neutral.
i also enjoy making the destinction between a imbred brute and a neutral tribemen by having the bad orcs have either no hair or stark white hair and then having "good orcs have red/brown/nearly black green/orange hair"
other destinctions are clothing with uncivillised orcs looking and dressing like barbaraians and the civillised ones dressing in a way reminicent of celtic warriors the kinds of people that made the vikings think twice about raiding the scotish isles
I'm chiming in because a few people have brought up this idea:
"Orcs are predisposed to evil" or "Orcs struggle with their nature to not be evil".
The issue here is that that kind of mentality often mirrors what you hear in modern culture about "others". "People from that country are just naturally... " and similar sentiments. While DND is a fantasy game that takes place in a fictional world that we are simply describing, there is a value in recalling that the attitudes we show in play can be reflective of attitudes in the real world.
I propose shifting focus to "this society strongly encourages X" and "people who grew up in this culture are likely to put a value on Y and Z". It still gives the room for any sentient creature to make a choice but it does provide for some level of generalization on creatures from that area/ culture/ background. It might seem a small thing but having worked with people from marginalized and often maligned communities it can be enough of a different to help them feel welcome in at the table.
To that end and in line with the OP: Orcs aren't evil. Every individual Orc makes a choice, influenced by their personal history, to do evil or not. Some may be trained to do evil and some may have chosen to do so horrible of an evil that redemption is out of reach (aka guilt free enemies). But unless they lack sentience, I think it's better to avoid saying anything is prone to a good/evil or has an affinity for such.
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Only siths deal in absolutes!
Seriously though, you like evil orcs? Make them evil in your setting. This has literally no effect on the game as it is played, it is just an ideological debate.
Personally I enjoy the feral cannibal halflings of Dark Sun but I'm not going to demand that becomes the default halfling flavor.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I tried Dark Sun once, didn’t get it. But then I love Kender and Gully Dwarves - which probably explains everything.
In my campaign orcs are generally evil. There can be exceptions but they have far more chaotic evil individuals in their spiecies than elves, dwarves, gnomes or other demihumans in general.
Modern racism doesn't have the convenience of literal actual gods literally influencing a race's nature with literal magic/divine power. Orcs don't have to be generally evil in every setting, and indeed they aren't. In eberron they are a normal civilized race (goblins too. Eberron is great). In the forgotten realms, they are made by an evil, bloodthirsty god in his own image, and yes their culture generally reinforces their supernaturally imposed nature. It is fantasy, unrealistic things like races created by gods for gods is part of it.
This thread has been inactive for three years and did not need to be raised from the dead to kick of an argument that has been done more times than "you start in a tavern". As such, it will locked
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