I don't get why so many people are pegging Hades as a rogue. He was the least roguish of the Greek gods- he focused on doing his duty and treating people fairly regardless of who they were. His bad reputation didn't really come about until Christians started conflating him with Satan.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I don't get why so many people are pegging Hades as a rogue. He was the least roguish of the Greek gods- he focused on doing his duty and treating people fairly regardless of who they were. His bad reputation didn't really come about until Christians started conflating him with Satan.
Well... there was the whole kidnapping Demeter thing....
I don't get why so many people are pegging Hades as a rogue. He was the least roguish of the Greek gods- he focused on doing his duty and treating people fairly regardless of who they were. His bad reputation didn't really come about until Christians started conflating him with Satan.
I think you’re the one who’s pegging rogues as something they’re not. Hades is all about making deals and enforcing contracts. The only class that excels at that without a lot of distracting and unnecessary class baggage is rogue. Lawyers are rogues. Politicians are rogues.
Technically, I think they are all Titans. Zeus' father Chronos is a Titan. They sort of distanced themselves from the race of their parents after Zeus's dad tried to eat him to prevent a prophesy that his son would kill him (which was self fulfilling since Zeus killed him by breaking out of Chronos' brain).
No, the Titans birthed the gods, but then there was a war between them and the gods won.
Technically, I think they are all Titans. Zeus' father Chronos is a Titan. They sort of distanced themselves from the race of their parents after Zeus's dad tried to eat him to prevent a prophesy that his son would kill him (which was self fulfilling since Zeus killed him by breaking out of Chronos' brain).
No, the Titans birthed the gods, but then there was a war between them and the gods won.
It is hard to be the natural parents of someone without being in some way the same species....
Normally I would agree, but have you read those old Greek myths?!? Zeus birthed Athena from his head and was married to three goddesses, two of which were his own daughters. Who knows what mutations all of that divine inbreeding did to their genetics? Like “The Hills Have Eyes” type of stuff.
I'm fairly certain that most if not all of them are/were multiclass.
This agrees with the old 1e Deities and Demigods. According to that book, Zeus is a Cleric/Figher/Magic-User/Illusionist/Bard (levels 25/17/20/20/15). Aphrodite is a Cleric/Magic-User/Illusionist/Bard (10/12/15/10). Converting to 5e, Zeus would probably be a 20 Cleric/20 Fighter/20 Wizard (Illusion school)/15 Bard. And Aphrodite would be a 10 Cleric/15 Wizard (Illusion school)/10 Bard. Not sure I agree on Aphrodite (I'd make her a much higher level in Bard), but the idea is, the gods cannot be keyed to a single class.
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Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I don't get why so many people are pegging Hades as a rogue. He was the least roguish of the Greek gods- he focused on doing his duty and treating people fairly regardless of who they were. His bad reputation didn't really come about until Christians started conflating him with Satan.
I think you’re the one who’s pegging rogues as something they’re not. Hades is all about making deals and enforcing contracts. The only class that excels at that without a lot of distracting and unnecessary class baggage is rogue. Lawyers are rogues. Politicians are rogues.
I think you're pegging Hades as something he wasn't. Hades was a judge, not a lawyer or a politician. Zeus, on the other hand, was definitely a politician.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I don't get why so many people are pegging Hades as a rogue. He was the least roguish of the Greek gods- he focused on doing his duty and treating people fairly regardless of who they were. His bad reputation didn't really come about until Christians started conflating him with Satan.
I think you’re the one who’s pegging rogues as something they’re not. Hades is all about making deals and enforcing contracts. The only class that excels at that without a lot of distracting and unnecessary class baggage is rogue. Lawyers are rogues. Politicians are rogues.
I think you're pegging Hades as something he wasn't. Hades was a judge, not a lawyer or a politician. Zeus, on the other hand, was definitely a politician.
Hades was a kidnapper and a rapist. Just ask his wife and his mother-in-law.
I don't get why so many people are pegging Hades as a rogue. He was the least roguish of the Greek gods- he focused on doing his duty and treating people fairly regardless of who they were. His bad reputation didn't really come about until Christians started conflating him with Satan.
I think you’re the one who’s pegging rogues as something they’re not. Hades is all about making deals and enforcing contracts. The only class that excels at that without a lot of distracting and unnecessary class baggage is rogue. Lawyers are rogues. Politicians are rogues.
I think you're pegging Hades as something he wasn't. Hades was a judge, not a lawyer or a politician. Zeus, on the other hand, was definitely a politician.
Judges are lawyers, and both are rogues (within the necessarily reductive class framework we have to work with). I never said Hades was a politician, though there’s an argument to be made there. But he’s certainly a lawyer. I have a degree in this.
But this thread is about D&D classes. Hades is a rogue because the things he does are things rogues are specifically good at.
I don't get why so many people are pegging Hades as a rogue. He was the least roguish of the Greek gods- he focused on doing his duty and treating people fairly regardless of who they were. His bad reputation didn't really come about until Christians started conflating him with Satan.
I think you’re the one who’s pegging rogues as something they’re not. Hades is all about making deals and enforcing contracts. The only class that excels at that without a lot of distracting and unnecessary class baggage is rogue. Lawyers are rogues. Politicians are rogues.
I think you're pegging Hades as something he wasn't. Hades was a judge, not a lawyer or a politician. Zeus, on the other hand, was definitely a politician.
Hades was a kidnapper and a rapist. Just ask his wife and his mother-in-law.
I believe that the only two Greek gods that you didn't just describe were Artemis and Athena.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I don't get why so many people are pegging Hades as a rogue. He was the least roguish of the Greek gods- he focused on doing his duty and treating people fairly regardless of who they were. His bad reputation didn't really come about until Christians started conflating him with Satan.
I think you’re the one who’s pegging rogues as something they’re not. Hades is all about making deals and enforcing contracts. The only class that excels at that without a lot of distracting and unnecessary class baggage is rogue. Lawyers are rogues. Politicians are rogues.
I think you're pegging Hades as something he wasn't. Hades was a judge, not a lawyer or a politician. Zeus, on the other hand, was definitely a politician.
Judges are lawyers, and both are rogues (within the necessarily reductive class framework we have to work with). I never said Hades was a politician, though there’s an argument to be made there. But he’s certainly a lawyer. I have a degree in this.
But this thread is about D&D classes. Hades is a rogue because the things he does are things rogues are specifically good at.
He's not portrayed as sneaking around, backstabbing people, or being a trickster, the archetypal rogue activities. I'd say fighter or cleric fits him better.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I don't get why so many people are pegging Hades as a rogue. He was the least roguish of the Greek gods- he focused on doing his duty and treating people fairly regardless of who they were. His bad reputation didn't really come about until Christians started conflating him with Satan.
I think you’re the one who’s pegging rogues as something they’re not. Hades is all about making deals and enforcing contracts. The only class that excels at that without a lot of distracting and unnecessary class baggage is rogue. Lawyers are rogues. Politicians are rogues.
I think you're pegging Hades as something he wasn't. Hades was a judge, not a lawyer or a politician. Zeus, on the other hand, was definitely a politician.
Judges are lawyers, and both are rogues (within the necessarily reductive class framework we have to work with). I never said Hades was a politician, though there’s an argument to be made there. But he’s certainly a lawyer. I have a degree in this.
But this thread is about D&D classes. Hades is a rogue because the things he does are things rogues are specifically good at.
This is a cool thread. Can I ask you (@sagatympana) a random question about the classics?
Alright this, greatly amuses me, nothing happens for months I post something (stupidly late) with the comment of "dead-thread" and then there is a resurgence of comments. I would claim that Hades IS actually a Rogue, partially because of the lawyer/politician thing (if I remember correct he helps to judge the dead and he IS king of the underworld) also if I remember correctly Hades literally MEANS Hidden One at which point, not having him be part rogue is a shame. I admit I don't think he is "just" a rogue, I think he probably has some Warlock (of the Raven Queen) or Cleric (Domain of the Grave or Domain of Death) depending on which you feel its better. Or if you were going with a Full on divine form probably a combination of all of the them (probably with a dash of paladin).
While I am certainly not legally "classically trained" I DO have an interest and knowledge about the classical Greek/Egyptian/Norse gods and I did take several (college level) courses on Greek mythology. I can't promise that any answer would be 100% correct, but I would suspect it won't be entirely wrong either.
While I am certainly not legally "classically trained" I DO have an interest and knowledge about the classical Greek/Egyptian/Norse gods and I did take several (college level) courses on Greek mythology. I can't promise that any answer would be 100% correct, but I would suspect it won't be entirely wrong either.
My question was have you ever read a novel called The Secret History and if you have what did you think of it? It’s about four classics students at Bennington who murder one of their classmates but it also has a lot of stuff about classical mythology.
”Along that desolate windswept beach the flames rose high leaping and dancing from the funeral pyre of Patroklos the friend of Achilles...”
Apologies for taking so long to respond (life has been busy). I am afraid I haven't ever read of he Secret History though the premise sounds interesting. I will have to see if my local library has it and check it out.
Apologies for taking so long to respond (life has been busy). I am afraid I haven't ever read of he Secret History though the premise sounds interesting. I will have to see if my local library has it and check it out.
Okay, it's been awhile since my last go at this, so I'll try again. First, all the gods have the Change Shape feature that Metallic Dragons have, or are all level 20 druids.
Zeus: Evocation Wizard or Tempest Cleric. Probably human, as they're the only race arrogant enough to portray his haughtiness.
Poseidon: Triton, probably a Tempest Cleric or Storm Herald Barbarian (Barbarian to show the rage and unpredictability of the sea. Also, he was kind of dumb, making a salt water spring in Athens.)
Hades: Hollow One Fallen Aasimar Death Cleric. Sure, he was bad, but so were all the other gods (Zeus was worse).
Demeter: Lotusden Nature Cleric.
Hera: Minotaur/Orc Unity Cleric
Hestia: Lightfoot Halfling Light Cleric
Hermes: Lightfoot Halfling Thief Rogue
Hephaestus: Mark of Warding Dwarf Battle Smith Artificer
Apollo: Sun Eladrin Arcane Archer
Artemis: Wood Elf Hunter Ranger
Athena: Human Battlemaster Fighter
Ares: Half-Orc Brute Fighter/Berserker Barbarian
Aphrodite: Human Love Cleric/Glamour Bard/Enchanter Wizard
Hecate: Forest Gnome Arcana Cleric
Iris: Half-Elf Lore Bard
Heracles: Goliath Glory Paladin
Pan: Satyr Archfey Warlock/Shepherd Druid
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
I don't get why so many people are pegging Hades as a rogue. He was the least roguish of the Greek gods- he focused on doing his duty and treating people fairly regardless of who they were. His bad reputation didn't really come about until Christians started conflating him with Satan.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Humans can absolutely anything, so if one dimisses human as a possibility and don't use any race more than once, I think these are the best options.
Well... there was the whole kidnapping Demeter thing....
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I think you’re the one who’s pegging rogues as something they’re not. Hades is all about making deals and enforcing contracts. The only class that excels at that without a lot of distracting and unnecessary class baggage is rogue. Lawyers are rogues. Politicians are rogues.
No, the Titans birthed the gods, but then there was a war between them and the gods won.
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Normally I would agree, but have you read those old Greek myths?!? Zeus birthed Athena from his head and was married to three goddesses, two of which were his own daughters. Who knows what mutations all of that divine inbreeding did to their genetics? Like “The Hills Have Eyes” type of stuff.
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This agrees with the old 1e Deities and Demigods. According to that book, Zeus is a Cleric/Figher/Magic-User/Illusionist/Bard (levels 25/17/20/20/15). Aphrodite is a Cleric/Magic-User/Illusionist/Bard (10/12/15/10). Converting to 5e, Zeus would probably be a 20 Cleric/20 Fighter/20 Wizard (Illusion school)/15 Bard. And Aphrodite would be a 10 Cleric/15 Wizard (Illusion school)/10 Bard. Not sure I agree on Aphrodite (I'd make her a much higher level in Bard), but the idea is, the gods cannot be keyed to a single class.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I think you're pegging Hades as something he wasn't. Hades was a judge, not a lawyer or a politician. Zeus, on the other hand, was definitely a politician.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Hades was a kidnapper and a rapist. Just ask his wife and his mother-in-law.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Judges are lawyers, and both are rogues (within the necessarily reductive class framework we have to work with). I never said Hades was a politician, though there’s an argument to be made there. But he’s certainly a lawyer. I have a degree in this.
But this thread is about D&D classes. Hades is a rogue because the things he does are things rogues are specifically good at.
I believe that the only two Greek gods that you didn't just describe were Artemis and Athena.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
He's not portrayed as sneaking around, backstabbing people, or being a trickster, the archetypal rogue activities. I'd say fighter or cleric fits him better.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
This is a cool thread. Can I ask you (@sagatympana) a random question about the classics?
Alright this, greatly amuses me, nothing happens for months I post something (stupidly late) with the comment of "dead-thread" and then there is a resurgence of comments. I would claim that Hades IS actually a Rogue, partially because of the lawyer/politician thing (if I remember correct he helps to judge the dead and he IS king of the underworld) also if I remember correctly Hades literally MEANS Hidden One at which point, not having him be part rogue is a shame. I admit I don't think he is "just" a rogue, I think he probably has some Warlock (of the Raven Queen) or Cleric (Domain of the Grave or Domain of Death) depending on which you feel its better. Or if you were going with a Full on divine form probably a combination of all of the them (probably with a dash of paladin).
While I am certainly not legally "classically trained" I DO have an interest and knowledge about the classical Greek/Egyptian/Norse gods and I did take several (college level) courses on Greek mythology. I can't promise that any answer would be 100% correct, but I would suspect it won't be entirely wrong either.
My question was have you ever read a novel called The Secret History and if you have what did you think of it? It’s about four classics students at Bennington who murder one of their classmates but it also has a lot of stuff about classical mythology.
”Along that desolate windswept beach the flames rose high leaping and dancing from the funeral pyre of Patroklos the friend of Achilles...”
Apologies for taking so long to respond (life has been busy). I am afraid I haven't ever read of he Secret History though the premise sounds interesting. I will have to see if my local library has it and check it out.
Thanks 😊
Okay, it's been awhile since my last go at this, so I'll try again. First, all the gods have the Change Shape feature that Metallic Dragons have, or are all level 20 druids.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Remembered Hera's sacred animal was the cow, I see.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.