Don't get me wrong: I think there's no right or wrong way to play D&D. But between "bard seduces everything" memes and LOLrandom "Chaotic Neutral" characters, etc, it's getting harder to find people who enjoy playing the serious, Tolkienesque games I enjoy. And I feel like releases like Acquisitions Incorporated and Rick and Morty are increasingly playing into that mindset, that D&D is a silly game. It certainly can be that, and I like having some lightness to my games, but does anyone else feel like the silliness is just a lot these days?
Again, I'm not telling anyone that their fun is wrong. If you like Rick and Morty D&D, good on you. Enjoy it! I just feel like the game is leaving its more classic themes in the dust, and I wonder if anyone else feels the same way.
I am with you in the sense that everyone plays DND differently and I accept that, but I also miss some of the more serious aspects of the game, the drama, the intrigue, the fear. I was just remarking to myself the other day that anytime a character dies nowadays people get really upset, but not (imo) for the right reasons. They blame the system, it's too hard, players should always win, and I feel like this Silliness plays into that even more. I miss the 2nd edition days where your mage could die if they didn't run, hide, take cover, whatever at first level. Where dungeons weren't catered to players winning every encounter. I remember running into ogres and trolls as 2nd level adventurers, the world was dangerous!
I prefer serious to silly but I think you're overreacting a little. Not trying to be mean or anything but the Serious stuff is far, far, outpacing the Silly. And they're still releasing more Serious and always will. 2 books in 5 years (half a decade) is very, very, little. I don't understand why you felt the need to rant about this (which is what your post is coming across as to me).
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I agree with Cybermind, there are many ways to play D&D, so claiming that there's an issue with a second non-serious source coming out sounds a bit like saying the only way to play is serious.
Plus it's only a small adventure, it's hardly a massive amount of content.
Also, the non-serious, anti-tolkien, R&M style games aren't new, they've been around for decades. Heck, Melf's name, of "Melf's Acid Arrow" fame, is just short for "Male Elf". He was a character made by Gary Gygax's son Luke, who initially didn't take it too seriously and as such made a dismissively named character. I've been encountering silly, low brow R&M style play since before R&M existed.
I'm ambivalent. I'm not the target audience, and there's always been Fantasy RPG parody. Knights of the Dinner Table and Hackmaster come to mind. However, WOTC's 5e output has been pretty consistently above average to absolutely fantastic to me in the grand scope of the total D&D library, so I guess there's always bound to be books in the series that really don't apply to my game style. There's a couple of the regular 5e adventure campaigns I wouldn't run because they're a bad fit. It's OK.
I prefer serious to silly but I think you're overreacting a little. Not trying to be mean or anything but the Serious stuff is far, far, outpacing the Silly. And they're still releasing more Serious and always will. 2 books in 5 years (half a decade) is very, very, little. I don't understand why you felt the need to rant about this (which is what your post is coming across as to me).
That's fair. And reassuring. It's probable that my feelings are more a result of the players in my local area and less WotC's releases. Either way, it's good to think that we'll stick with the classic content for those of us who are dedicated to it.
I am with you in the sense that everyone plays DND differently and I accept that, but I also miss some of the more serious aspects of the game, the drama, the intrigue, the fear. I was just remarking to myself the other day that anytime a character dies nowadays people get really upset, but not (imo) for the right reasons. They blame the system, it's too hard, players should always win, and I feel like this Silliness plays into that even more. I miss the 2nd edition days where your mage could die if they didn't run, hide, take cover, whatever at first level. Where dungeons weren't catered to players winning every encounter. I remember running into ogres and trolls as 2nd level adventurers, the world was dangerous!
YES!!! It's actually laughable when people say 5e is hard...I'm a college kid but my mom introduced me to the game with Red Box, those were the good days. :-)
I started with the red box basic D&D game too, back in the 80s.
A few years back, five friends who hadn't played it asked me to run a game for them, so I did - they generated characters using the approved method (I allowed the optional 4d6-drop-the-lowest stats rule, as I knew what was coming). They had Fighter, Cleric, Thief, Elf, and Wizard (a reasonable party balance).
I decided to run the intro adventure, Castle Caldwell.
In the first combat encounter - the guard room with 4 goblins, two of the party died. Dead.
How? The thief was at the front, with the elf. The Thief class gets 1d4 hit points at 1st level. With a con of 13 and a d4 roll of 3, they had 4 hit points. A goblin, armed with a shortsword does 1d6 damage. A goblin hit them, rolled a 5 for damage and that is that - dead. Similar story for the elf.
Yeah, it's a bit of a problem. I wouldn't say it's a silly thing, but there is clearly something wrong with D&D today. Too much wonder trivializes the simpler wonders. Just like saving the world trivializes other types of adventures.
Some of it is all the races that don't fit in that type of story, Kenku, Tabaxi, Firbolg, and more Tieflings than you can shake a spoon at. Some of it is the adventures, 5e's adventures are not good on average. I hated every minute of Dragon Heist. Some of it is the new people that play now that its popular. Too many people that watched Critical Role and just want to be that.
Yeah, it's a bit of a problem. I wouldn't say it's a silly thing, but there is clearly something wrong with D&D today. Too much wonder trivializes the simpler wonders. Just like saving the world trivializes other types of adventures.
Yeah no, there's nothing wrong with "D&D today". Maybe it's not the D&D that you want to play, but it's the type of D&D that's bringing people in, making the game successful and giving people options.
Some of it is the new people that play now that its popular. Too many people that watched Critical Role and just want to be that.
No one likes a gatekeeper. D&D is many things to many people and saying that there's something wrong with it because it's not all the D&D you want to play is a very excluding approach to the hobby.
Instead of attacking what you consider to be 'wrong' with D&D and the people who play it, maybe run the game you want to play? Run a game with grounded adventures using just humans, dwarves, elves and halflings. There is literally nothing stopping you.
Too much wonder trivializes the simpler wonders. Just like saving the world trivializes other types of adventures.
But that's Rick and Morty and Dan Harmon's whole schtick! Sucking the joy out of things! Isn't that great??? I can't wait for the pop culture collective unconscious' current infatuation with Gen X post-ironic disaffection to die already. Eventually it'll pass, so I'm not exactly worried. There are definitely issues of tone, but I don't think the sky is falling. I'm old enough to remember the D&D Saturday morning cartoon show. Eventually there'll be another tone shift for a new generation. There'll be a thing after Youtube. There'll be a thing after The Internet. D&D preceeds both and will exist afterwards.
Though I appreciate parody and some degree of Omigawsh-ness in world-building, I actually find Tolkien to not be serious enough. I'm thinking that if WotC doesn't release a Dark Sun update for 5e in the next 2 years, I will probably end up buying some older edition books and modding my own. I would probably still allow most the races and classes available up to Xanathar's and Volo's Guide, but change the lore and tweak a few abilities here and there.
That's one of the things I love about D&D... it's not like monopoly or Hell... even something like Settler of Catan where there are hard and fast rules that every player has to adhere to or else the game just doesn't work. If you want to play a game where hitting 0 HP is instant death, the only thing stopping you is being able to find enough other people to run a game. And in this day and age, with sites like Roll20 and other digital tabletops, even if you can't find a group of likeminded players in your area, there's always the chance to find someone who loves to play the same way you do.
I've found myself playing two different systems lately... I have a home campaign which is very serious (but not dark and edgy) and RP focused, with a ton of social interaction and large stakes. My character in it is a bit goofy, but the story is played very straight with the only 4th wall breaks being either OOC chatter or the bard singing a popular real world song and maybe changing some of the lyrics to be about D&D stuff. We'll go through long sessions that sometimes have no combat, but always have things like persuasion rolls, skill checks, or investigations to run.
However, sometimes I just crave a straightforward Dungeon Crawl or combat-heavy adventure, and for that I go to a local game store for Adventurer's League. It's hard to do any serious roleplay, since it's rare to travel with the same group of characters and you just kind of hop from town to town fighting crime. But it's a good place to vent with a less serious story and just experiment with different game systems. I've been kind of using it to let out some gimmicky characters that seem fun, but which I wouldn't want to try and play over a long period of time in a more serious campaign.
Don't get me wrong: I think there's no right or wrong way to play D&D. But between "bard seduces everything" memes and LOLrandom "Chaotic Neutral" characters, etc, it's getting harder to find people who enjoy playing the serious, Tolkienesque games I enjoy. And I feel like releases like Acquisitions Incorporated and Rick and Morty are increasingly playing into that mindset, that D&D is a silly game. It certainly can be that, and I like having some lightness to my games, but does anyone else feel like the silliness is just a lot these days?
Again, I'm not telling anyone that their fun is wrong. If you like Rick and Morty D&D, good on you. Enjoy it! I just feel like the game is leaving its more classic themes in the dust, and I wonder if anyone else feels the same way.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
I am with you in the sense that everyone plays DND differently and I accept that, but I also miss some of the more serious aspects of the game, the drama, the intrigue, the fear. I was just remarking to myself the other day that anytime a character dies nowadays people get really upset, but not (imo) for the right reasons. They blame the system, it's too hard, players should always win, and I feel like this Silliness plays into that even more. I miss the 2nd edition days where your mage could die if they didn't run, hide, take cover, whatever at first level. Where dungeons weren't catered to players winning every encounter. I remember running into ogres and trolls as 2nd level adventurers, the world was dangerous!
Serious Books: 11 sourcebooks, 21 adventures (1 of these not yet released). Total: 32
Not Serious Books: 1 sourcebook, 1 adventure (not yet released). Total: 2.
I prefer serious to silly but I think you're overreacting a little. Not trying to be mean or anything but the Serious stuff is far, far, outpacing the Silly. And they're still releasing more Serious and always will. 2 books in 5 years (half a decade) is very, very, little. I don't understand why you felt the need to rant about this (which is what your post is coming across as to me).
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I agree with Cybermind, there are many ways to play D&D, so claiming that there's an issue with a second non-serious source coming out sounds a bit like saying the only way to play is serious.
Plus it's only a small adventure, it's hardly a massive amount of content.
Also, the non-serious, anti-tolkien, R&M style games aren't new, they've been around for decades. Heck, Melf's name, of "Melf's Acid Arrow" fame, is just short for "Male Elf". He was a character made by Gary Gygax's son Luke, who initially didn't take it too seriously and as such made a dismissively named character. I've been encountering silly, low brow R&M style play since before R&M existed.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Moichendizing!
I'm ambivalent. I'm not the target audience, and there's always been Fantasy RPG parody. Knights of the Dinner Table and Hackmaster come to mind. However, WOTC's 5e output has been pretty consistently above average to absolutely fantastic to me in the grand scope of the total D&D library, so I guess there's always bound to be books in the series that really don't apply to my game style. There's a couple of the regular 5e adventure campaigns I wouldn't run because they're a bad fit. It's OK.
That's fair. And reassuring. It's probable that my feelings are more a result of the players in my local area and less WotC's releases. Either way, it's good to think that we'll stick with the classic content for those of us who are dedicated to it.
YES!!! It's actually laughable when people say 5e is hard...I'm a college kid but my mom introduced me to the game with Red Box, those were the good days. :-)
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
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D&D Beyond FoundersI started with the red box basic D&D game too, back in the 80s.
A few years back, five friends who hadn't played it asked me to run a game for them, so I did - they generated characters using the approved method (I allowed the optional 4d6-drop-the-lowest stats rule, as I knew what was coming). They had Fighter, Cleric, Thief, Elf, and Wizard (a reasonable party balance).
I decided to run the intro adventure, Castle Caldwell.
In the first combat encounter - the guard room with 4 goblins, two of the party died. Dead.
How? The thief was at the front, with the elf. The Thief class gets 1d4 hit points at 1st level. With a con of 13 and a d4 roll of 3, they had 4 hit points. A goblin, armed with a shortsword does 1d6 damage. A goblin hit them, rolled a 5 for damage and that is that - dead. Similar story for the elf.
"I've got healing," says the cleric.
"Sorry - zero hit points is dead."
That game was BRUTAL!
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Yeah, it's a bit of a problem. I wouldn't say it's a silly thing, but there is clearly something wrong with D&D today. Too much wonder trivializes the simpler wonders. Just like saving the world trivializes other types of adventures.
Some of it is all the races that don't fit in that type of story, Kenku, Tabaxi, Firbolg, and more Tieflings than you can shake a spoon at. Some of it is the adventures, 5e's adventures are not good on average. I hated every minute of Dragon Heist. Some of it is the new people that play now that its popular. Too many people that watched Critical Role and just want to be that.
Yeah no, there's nothing wrong with "D&D today". Maybe it's not the D&D that you want to play, but it's the type of D&D that's bringing people in, making the game successful and giving people options.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
But that's Rick and Morty and Dan Harmon's whole schtick! Sucking the joy out of things! Isn't that great??? I can't wait for the pop culture collective unconscious' current infatuation with Gen X post-ironic disaffection to die already. Eventually it'll pass, so I'm not exactly worried. There are definitely issues of tone, but I don't think the sky is falling. I'm old enough to remember the D&D Saturday morning cartoon show. Eventually there'll be another tone shift for a new generation. There'll be a thing after Youtube. There'll be a thing after The Internet. D&D preceeds both and will exist afterwards.
Though I appreciate parody and some degree of Omigawsh-ness in world-building, I actually find Tolkien to not be serious enough. I'm thinking that if WotC doesn't release a Dark Sun update for 5e in the next 2 years, I will probably end up buying some older edition books and modding my own. I would probably still allow most the races and classes available up to Xanathar's and Volo's Guide, but change the lore and tweak a few abilities here and there.
That's one of the things I love about D&D... it's not like monopoly or Hell... even something like Settler of Catan where there are hard and fast rules that every player has to adhere to or else the game just doesn't work. If you want to play a game where hitting 0 HP is instant death, the only thing stopping you is being able to find enough other people to run a game. And in this day and age, with sites like Roll20 and other digital tabletops, even if you can't find a group of likeminded players in your area, there's always the chance to find someone who loves to play the same way you do.
I've found myself playing two different systems lately... I have a home campaign which is very serious (but not dark and edgy) and RP focused, with a ton of social interaction and large stakes. My character in it is a bit goofy, but the story is played very straight with the only 4th wall breaks being either OOC chatter or the bard singing a popular real world song and maybe changing some of the lyrics to be about D&D stuff. We'll go through long sessions that sometimes have no combat, but always have things like persuasion rolls, skill checks, or investigations to run.
However, sometimes I just crave a straightforward Dungeon Crawl or combat-heavy adventure, and for that I go to a local game store for Adventurer's League. It's hard to do any serious roleplay, since it's rare to travel with the same group of characters and you just kind of hop from town to town fighting crime. But it's a good place to vent with a less serious story and just experiment with different game systems. I've been kind of using it to let out some gimmicky characters that seem fun, but which I wouldn't want to try and play over a long period of time in a more serious campaign.
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