Will d&d beyond ever allow for gestalt characters to be created on its interface? It sucks that my group has invested so much into this and now we've hit a brick wall
Guess I'm left wondering why you'd want DDB to do that for you? The main purpose behind using the powerful tool that is DDB for character creation is that it follows all the rules and official guidelines based on purchased/ unlocked content available to you. Gestalt characters basically break the rules, so you'd have to manually override the system. In which, DDB would still be a great resource, but I'm not sure why you'd want the powerful tool to do calculations for you if you aren't going to be playing by any guidelines anyway?
@ManOfValor: DDB is indeed a powerful tool. That doesn't mean all its users are AL folks who have to obey every single rule scrupulously to the letter, to the great detriment of their game. The homebrew tools exist, in part, because people would like to make their D&D characters and games their own, rather than simply using the paltry and inadequate resources in the books.
@DW: I'll give you the same advice I gave the last person who asked how to implement a gestalt character in DDB. Create two character sheets: "Joe Gestalt(Fighter)" and "Joe Gestalt (Bard)". Use one of them as your primary sheet, with your up-to-date gear and HP and such, while the other character sheet serves as a supporting document that keeps track of your second class' abilities and spells and such. It's not perfect, but it gets the overall job done of tracking your multiple classes electronically, rather than via an overloaded pen-and-paper sheet.
@ManOfValor: DDB is indeed a powerful tool. That doesn't mean all its users are AL folks who have to obey every single rule scrupulously to the letter, to the great detriment of their game. The homebrew tools exist, in part, because people would like to make their D&D characters and games their own, rather than simply using the paltry and inadequate resources in the books.
Their point seemed to be more "DDB has to follow the core rules of D&D, which does not include gestalt characters". I wouldn't say people following some, most, or all of the rules of 5th edition are doing a detriment to their game, people like to enjoy different things. And as for calling the books available 'paltry and inadequate', they're perfectly adequate for playing 5th edition. They're not designed for playing features from much earlier, more convoluted editions and the features therein such as gestalt characters.
It is less accurate to say they wont do it because it is not in the rules and more accurate to say they can't do it because there are no rules that tell them how to set up their automated tools to support it.
Gestalts and epic levels are simply outside the scope of what the rules the tools are built to describe.
Yeah, that's all valid. Heh, suppose I just found myself squinty-eyed at Valor's assertion that nobody should ever want to do anything that isn't Covered By The Rules(C) because how dare someone want to step outside the books.
Gestalt rules don't exist outside weird homebrew, and Wizards definitely seems to be leaning more towards solving the "Party Too Small" rule by adding extraneous NPCs via the (once awesome but now awful) Sidekick rules, rather than allowing single PCs to gain more breadth of ability. That's valid, especially since running a gestalt seems like it'd confuse new players and 5e is designed strictly for new players at the strong expense of errybuddy else, but hey.
Nevertheless. Two character sheets on DDB, with some care taken not to overload on ASIs. Gestalt: accomplished.
There was a Sidekick UA that went out a while ago, before I started playing. You can probably Google it, that's how I found it. Those Sidekick stat blocks were almost shockingly potent, and also designed to be very generically applicable. A 'Warrior' sidekick block could be a fighter that joined your cause, or it could be a trained war beast you acquired (which also very neatly solved the Ranger Beastmaster issue). Casters and Experts were similarly designed to be easily reflavored to whatever you needed, and the statblocks were impressive enough to serve as powerful bolsters - or, if you were running a game for a set of players that eschewed combat and wanted to be more talky intrigue-y subterfuge sorts, the Warrior sidekicks especially could serve as NPC bruisers and legbreakers the party employed as actual factual hired muscle.
The Sidekick system, as introduced in the Essentials Kit, gives the DM eight or so extremely specific NPCs that only go up to 5th level, I believe, and which are not permitted to be ANYTHING ELSE because they're tied directly into what little plot there is in Durgan of Icyhot Peek. Their statblocks are pretty godawful, and they have a bunch of extra baggage attached. It's super disappointing. Much like most everything that Wizards mangles in the transition from UA to live game. At this point I honestly almost wish they would stop releasing UA content - they're just going to murder it before release anyways, why even try and get people excited?
The sidekick statblocks go up to 12 level I believe, at least in the Divine Contention adventure for the DM's Kit. That said, the UA went up to 20th level, and had a lot more choices available to the statblocks than what the official versions came out with, plus a couple of features that look like they didn't make the final cut.
Back to the topic at hand, yeah, DDB unfortunately is unable at present to offer much in the way of content that isn't based on what's been released in the official sourcebooks. That said, there may be a little more wriggle room available for homebrew once the framework for the Class Feature Variants UA is eventually implemented; until then though, Yurei's suggestion is the best workaround available right now.
Because some things in beyond are set in stone. Like proficiency bonus for example. Yes I do change everything but because of that constant it makes my life much more difficult. Also you are capped at lvl 20 and the only way to have both classes on the gestalt is to l vel them both to ten and adjust the numbers.... But they cannot be leveled passed that due to the cap. So it isn't possible past 10th lvl. Also don't tell me about a site that "makes everything by the rules" when they allow custom items, subclasses, races etc to be made. Dnd has always been about house rules, and everything that go along with them, to maximize your players experience.
@ManOfValor: DDB is indeed a powerful tool. That doesn't mean all its users are AL folks who have to obey every single rule scrupulously to the letter, to the great detriment of their game. The homebrew tools exist, in part, because people would like to make their D&D characters and games their own, rather than simply using the paltry and inadequate resources in the books.
@DW: I'll give you the same advice I gave the last person who asked how to implement a gestalt character in DDB. Create two character sheets: "Joe Gestalt(Fighter)" and "Joe Gestalt (Bard)". Use one of them as your primary sheet, with your up-to-date gear and HP and such, while the other character sheet serves as a supporting document that keeps track of your second class' abilities and spells and such. It's not perfect, but it gets the overall job done of tracking your multiple classes electronically, rather than via an overloaded pen-and-paper sheet.
Thank you Yurei1453... That's seems like the best option
Also don't tell me about a site that "makes everything by the rules" when they allow custom items, subclasses, races etc to be made. Dnd has always been about house rules, and everything that go along with them, to maximize your players experience.
It is less accurate to say they wont do it because it is not in the rules and more accurate to say they can't do it because there are no rules that tell them how to set up their automated tools to support it.
Gestalts and epic levels are simply outside the scope of what the rules the tools are built to describe.
It is fair to remember that currently, the only "Gestalt" rules for 5e are alien homebrew weirdthings from YouTube, where they use paper sheets or editable PDFs that can be literally anything they want. We already have the issue of DDB being unable to flex far enough to accommodate alternative class features, it's not surprising that this isn't in place yet.
The simplest version of "gestalt" characters would be to simply fully level up in two classes. I don't know how the character sheet was architected but, it may be as simple as removing the limit on combined class levels. If you multiclass today the editor prevents you from selecting a level that will raise your total above 20, if you have 5 in Fighter you can't go higher than 15 in Barbarian. If there was a toggle to remove that limitation that could go a long way in supporting "gestalt" characters. The issue after that would be selecting which class' hit dice to use (but that could be handled manually on the sheet to start). They wouldn't need to deal with the ASIs initially either since a player could just not set them.
What's a gestalt character? This is all just making me think of Nier lol.
Gestalt is a psychological term. Gestalt psychology is characterized, very roughly, by the idea that we perceive things holistically - we recognize patterns and as such can "fill in the blanks" when only seeing something partially.
In D&D, gestalt characters originated in 3E and basically are characters that gain the qualities and abilities of two different classes at the same time (concurrent multiclassing, if you will): when gaining a level, they get whatever benefits each class would give separately and the best of each if there's an overlap. A gestalt bardbarian at level 3 has a bard's first two levels of abilities and a barbarian's first two levels of abilities and gains a bard college, expertise, an extra spell known and a first and two second level spell slots from the bard side, as well as a primal path and an extra rage from the barbarian side; getting an extra hit die overlaps so the gestalt character gets the better of the two, the barbarian's 1d12.
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What's a gestalt character? This is all just making me think of Nier lol.
Gestalt is a psychological term. Gestalt psychology is characterized, very roughly, by the idea that we perceive things holistically - we recognize patterns and as such can "fill in the blanks" when only seeing something partially.
In D&D, gestalt characters originated in 3E and basically are characters that gain the qualities and abilities of two different classes at the same time (concurrent multiclassing, if you will): when gaining a level, they get whatever benefits each class would give separately and the best of each if there's an overlap. A gestalt bardbarian at level 3 has a bard's first two levels of abilities and a barbarian's first two levels of abilities and gains a bard college, expertise, an extra spell known and a first and two second level spell slots from the bard side, as well as a primal path and an extra rage from the barbarian side; getting an extra hit die overlaps so the gestalt character gets the better of the two, the barbarian's 1d12.
So they get almost two level ups each time they level? They get L2 Bard and L2 Barb at L2, L3 Bard and L3 Barb at L3, etc? They may only get 1 HD, but that seems very OP?
I mean, it would be pretty powerful to choose which class for each level (for example, L2 Rogue, then level up and take L3 Wizard, and L4 Fighter, etc without having to take the lower levels of that class), but to level up both classes simultaneously seems like it would break the game.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Will d&d beyond ever allow for gestalt characters to be created on its interface? It sucks that my group has invested so much into this and now we've hit a brick wall
Guess I'm left wondering why you'd want DDB to do that for you? The main purpose behind using the powerful tool that is DDB for character creation is that it follows all the rules and official guidelines based on purchased/ unlocked content available to you. Gestalt characters basically break the rules, so you'd have to manually override the system. In which, DDB would still be a great resource, but I'm not sure why you'd want the powerful tool to do calculations for you if you aren't going to be playing by any guidelines anyway?
If Wizards of the Coast release a sourcebook that contains rules for creating gestalt characters, then D&D Beyond will add support for them. 🙂
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@ManOfValor: DDB is indeed a powerful tool. That doesn't mean all its users are AL folks who have to obey every single rule scrupulously to the letter, to the great detriment of their game. The homebrew tools exist, in part, because people would like to make their D&D characters and games their own, rather than simply using the paltry and inadequate resources in the books.
@DW: I'll give you the same advice I gave the last person who asked how to implement a gestalt character in DDB.
Create two character sheets: "Joe Gestalt(Fighter)" and "Joe Gestalt (Bard)". Use one of them as your primary sheet, with your up-to-date gear and HP and such, while the other character sheet serves as a supporting document that keeps track of your second class' abilities and spells and such. It's not perfect, but it gets the overall job done of tracking your multiple classes electronically, rather than via an overloaded pen-and-paper sheet.
Please do not contact or message me.
Their point seemed to be more "DDB has to follow the core rules of D&D, which does not include gestalt characters". I wouldn't say people following some, most, or all of the rules of 5th edition are doing a detriment to their game, people like to enjoy different things. And as for calling the books available 'paltry and inadequate', they're perfectly adequate for playing 5th edition. They're not designed for playing features from much earlier, more convoluted editions and the features therein such as gestalt characters.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
It is less accurate to say they wont do it because it is not in the rules and more accurate to say they can't do it because there are no rules that tell them how to set up their automated tools to support it.
Gestalts and epic levels are simply outside the scope of what the rules the tools are built to describe.
Yeah, that's all valid. Heh, suppose I just found myself squinty-eyed at Valor's assertion that nobody should ever want to do anything that isn't Covered By The Rules(C) because how dare someone want to step outside the books.
Gestalt rules don't exist outside weird homebrew, and Wizards definitely seems to be leaning more towards solving the "Party Too Small" rule by adding extraneous NPCs via the (once awesome but now awful) Sidekick rules, rather than allowing single PCs to gain more breadth of ability. That's valid, especially since running a gestalt seems like it'd confuse new players and 5e is designed strictly for new players at the strong expense of errybuddy else, but hey.
Nevertheless. Two character sheets on DDB, with some care taken not to overload on ASIs. Gestalt: accomplished.
Please do not contact or message me.
??? *leans in* Go on....
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There was a Sidekick UA that went out a while ago, before I started playing. You can probably Google it, that's how I found it. Those Sidekick stat blocks were almost shockingly potent, and also designed to be very generically applicable. A 'Warrior' sidekick block could be a fighter that joined your cause, or it could be a trained war beast you acquired (which also very neatly solved the Ranger Beastmaster issue). Casters and Experts were similarly designed to be easily reflavored to whatever you needed, and the statblocks were impressive enough to serve as powerful bolsters - or, if you were running a game for a set of players that eschewed combat and wanted to be more talky intrigue-y subterfuge sorts, the Warrior sidekicks especially could serve as NPC bruisers and legbreakers the party employed as actual factual hired muscle.
The Sidekick system, as introduced in the Essentials Kit, gives the DM eight or so extremely specific NPCs that only go up to 5th level, I believe, and which are not permitted to be ANYTHING ELSE because they're tied directly into what little plot there is in Durgan of Icyhot Peek. Their statblocks are pretty godawful, and they have a bunch of extra baggage attached. It's super disappointing. Much like most everything that Wizards mangles in the transition from UA to live game. At this point I honestly almost wish they would stop releasing UA content - they're just going to murder it before release anyways, why even try and get people excited?
Please do not contact or message me.
The sidekick statblocks go up to 12 level I believe, at least in the Divine Contention adventure for the DM's Kit. That said, the UA went up to 20th level, and had a lot more choices available to the statblocks than what the official versions came out with, plus a couple of features that look like they didn't make the final cut.
Back to the topic at hand, yeah, DDB unfortunately is unable at present to offer much in the way of content that isn't based on what's been released in the official sourcebooks. That said, there may be a little more wriggle room available for homebrew once the framework for the Class Feature Variants UA is eventually implemented; until then though, Yurei's suggestion is the best workaround available right now.
Because some things in beyond are set in stone. Like proficiency bonus for example. Yes I do change everything but because of that constant it makes my life much more difficult. Also you are capped at lvl 20 and the only way to have both classes on the gestalt is to l vel them both to ten and adjust the numbers.... But they cannot be leveled passed that due to the cap. So it isn't possible past 10th lvl. Also don't tell me about a site that "makes everything by the rules" when they allow custom items, subclasses, races etc to be made. Dnd has always been about house rules, and everything that go along with them, to maximize your players experience.
Thank you Yurei1453... That's seems like the best option
Right, that is where my comment comes in:
It is fair to remember that currently, the only "Gestalt" rules for 5e are alien homebrew weirdthings from YouTube, where they use paper sheets or editable PDFs that can be literally anything they want. We already have the issue of DDB being unable to flex far enough to accommodate alternative class features, it's not surprising that this isn't in place yet.
Please do not contact or message me.
The simplest version of "gestalt" characters would be to simply fully level up in two classes. I don't know how the character sheet was architected but, it may be as simple as removing the limit on combined class levels. If you multiclass today the editor prevents you from selecting a level that will raise your total above 20, if you have 5 in Fighter you can't go higher than 15 in Barbarian. If there was a toggle to remove that limitation that could go a long way in supporting "gestalt" characters. The issue after that would be selecting which class' hit dice to use (but that could be handled manually on the sheet to start). They wouldn't need to deal with the ASIs initially either since a player could just not set them.
What's a gestalt character? This is all just making me think of Nier lol.
Gestalt is a psychological term. Gestalt psychology is characterized, very roughly, by the idea that we perceive things holistically - we recognize patterns and as such can "fill in the blanks" when only seeing something partially.
In D&D, gestalt characters originated in 3E and basically are characters that gain the qualities and abilities of two different classes at the same time (concurrent multiclassing, if you will): when gaining a level, they get whatever benefits each class would give separately and the best of each if there's an overlap. A gestalt bardbarian at level 3 has a bard's first two levels of abilities and a barbarian's first two levels of abilities and gains a bard college, expertise, an extra spell known and a first and two second level spell slots from the bard side, as well as a primal path and an extra rage from the barbarian side; getting an extra hit die overlaps so the gestalt character gets the better of the two, the barbarian's 1d12.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
So they get almost two level ups each time they level? They get L2 Bard and L2 Barb at L2, L3 Bard and L3 Barb at L3, etc? They may only get 1 HD, but that seems very OP?
I mean, it would be pretty powerful to choose which class for each level (for example, L2 Rogue, then level up and take L3 Wizard, and L4 Fighter, etc without having to take the lower levels of that class), but to level up both classes simultaneously seems like it would break the game.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
It's not meant to be used as part of a "regular" campaign.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
@Yurei1453 I was just looking at how to make a Gestalt character so thank you for the idea on two character sheets!!!