What the argument here is that there is a physical book that needs to be made, has content that was thought up by the company, revised, re-revised, tested, produced, stocked, and shipped. This is a site that is based on information that is already there with nothing to physically stock. Pricing should not be similar in any way. I'm not saying that Beyond is a bad product, its helping us play 5e more easily which we all love. Just saying it should be less expensive.
At the same time, there are costs here that aren't a part of the physical books: design of the software, data entry, server costs, maintenance of the servers and the database, bug fixing, etc: most of those include costs for salaries, hardware, office space, etc.. Then there are the licensing fees. I don't know what all that adds up to. I doubt anyone does outside of Curse. So I don't know how they compare to WOTC's costs for creating the physical books., which is also an unknown.
Sorry, didn’t mean to ignore that part. There is a lot more cost associated with WOTC than Curse on this. WOTC also has servers, databases, salaries, hardware, office space, basically everything Curse has but add on the game design, years of play testing before anything is even sold, a physical inventory, liability for that physical product (I had one of the PHBs that needed replaced), and on and on. What WOTC does not have is a licensing fee and/or an agreement for pricing. Those 2 are the only things I can imagine that would drive pricing as high as Amazon.
Given that DDB is a digital product, that is at its core a database, one that must handle access by 500k+ users, I'm pretty confident that Curse's database, server, and development costs are significantly higher than WOTC's for DnD Books.
Not that it matters now anyway, I drank that devil whiskey and bought up some shit yesterday anyway haha
If I want to use it in my various VTT's I should be able to, the way things are set up right now is ... I have to buy a copy (same format and info) for each VTT I want to use it in. That is like having to buy a printed copy for each time you get together for an in person game.
There's where you're wrong, though... There's no "same format and info" situation going on here... Info, yes, but each one of these platforms has to take this data and put it into a format compatible with said platform. It is not a matter of WotC handing out a file and everyone else just consuming it wholesale.
Public Mod Note
(Stormknight):
moved from FAQ thread
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Grant K. Smith A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
Spastik: Except other than the PHB and DM guide, it’s not discounted at all or even more expensive than Amazon. If it was 40% off I doubt you’d see as many people having an issue. On top of that, you have a monthly subscription fee so it’s more expensive than having books.
Only issue here is that you have to go from MSRP. You can't just pick a cost you found from a retailer that has already discounted pricing. Otherwise I could find someone who sells at a higher price to show a higher cost savings. Neither are true. Thus why we have MSRP to base it off of.
Kreakdude: IMO: $50 for the PHB is way overpriced comparing the amount of production vs. AAA video games costing $60. People justify paying that to "support their local", but you might as well just buy from amazon, deal with a 2 day wait time, and walk over to your FLGS and hand them a $20 because I really doubt they get that much off their $50 sale.
yes, in your opinion, that is over priced. However, the publisher has determined that this is a fair market value through costs, research and probably other factors i don't really want/need to know. Honestly, using your logic, video games should costs $10 since once it is done, all they have to do is copy it and let me download it/buy it. Also, if Amazon can sell the book for $30, then you know that the FLGS is making at least $20 of each book.
Kreakdude: What really determines value is the price people are willing to pay for it, not content & distribution costs.
Also, you forgot Supply and Demand, can be used to manipulate the value. If no one wants it, the price would plummet, thus making it cheaper. on the flip side, they can make an exclusive cover for B&M only and release it two weeks early and charge a higher price and people will pay for it. The original MSRP, however, as I stated before, comes from market research and associated costs. It is not just some magic number they pulled out of a hat. Also, this builds in anti price fixing schemes.
AaronOfBarbaria: And that is a problem - people, generally speaking, have a terribly inaccurate sense of what price is actually fair, and are extremely resistant to attempts to educate them on the topic. Resulting in people thinking things like that the price of a D&D book or a AAA video game title is "Too high" when the reality, in both cases, is that the current asking price is actually less of an expense than it was "back in the day".
And thus, the Micro-transaction was born. We can sell a base product cheaper and then you get to buy all the little addons to make the video game really playable, or we could wrap it all up together and charge a higher price that no one will pay. of course, you don't have to buy the full book on DDB either. You can buy only what you need and be happy and move on.
Kreakdude: This is also why piracy is such a huge factor because from the consumer's perspective (the one that determines the value) it's no longer a decision of "Can I have this content or not" it's a matter of "Is it worth the convenience & risk removal?". The ability to pirate greatly reduces the value of the product because then you're just paying for convenience which is a luxury.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! This is why WOTC will not make PDF's. You just proved my point.
AaronOfBarbaria: Even a stellar video game is only so many hours of fun, while a run of the mill RPG book can keep the fun going for years and years. Even when I go back to my favorite video games from years past, I get maybe 60 hours out of it and I'm not doing anything I haven't already done the same way - but I can spin a whole new campaign out of my favorite gaming books from years past when I go back to them, do something new or in a new way, and blow past that 60 hour mark before the campaign is even a third of the way done.
Also, some people do not even upgrade and continue to play 1st, AD&D, 2nd, 3rd, 3.5 and (shudders) 4th. They are getting way more milage out of that fun per dollar than most people get with video games. Video games today last about a year if that before the next big thing is hyped up or a new version comes out. I bought Titanfall when it came out on PC. Was fun for about 6 months - to a year and then they were already talking TF2. TF release was 3/2014 and TF2 was 10/2016.
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I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
If I want to use it in my various VTT's I should be able to, the way things are set up right now is ... I have to buy a copy (same format and info) for each VTT I want to use it in. That is like having to buy a printed copy for each time you get together for an in person game.
There's where you're wrong, though... There's no "same format and info" situation going on here... Info, yes, but each one of these platforms has to take this data and put it into a format compatible with said platform. It is not a matter of WotC handing out a file and everyone else just consuming it wholesale.
Which is why there should be separation between the content and the tools that use said content. You pay for the content ONCE and then you pay for the tools, like here at DDB. Current system is you pay for the same content multiple times... FG, Roll20, etc.
teak
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A little bit of nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men... - Willy Wonka
Spastik: Except other than the PHB and DM guide, it’s not discounted at all or even more expensive than Amazon. If it was 40% off I doubt you’d see as many people having an issue. On top of that, you have a monthly subscription fee so it’s more expensive than having books.
Only issue here is that you have to go from MSRP. You can't just pick a cost you found from a retailer that has already discounted pricing. Otherwise I could find someone who sells at a higher price to show a higher cost savings. Neither are true. Thus why we have MSRP to base it off of.
I don't have to go off of MSRP nor will I. The price I can obtain a product for is what matters, not the MSRP. List the books at a million dollars and sell them for $30, nobody cares what MSRP is. Kind of like buying a car, you shop real prices to see what the best deal is not MSRP. I look at what things will cost out of my pocket, not imaginary savings to try to make things look like a better deal than they are. You can't say "you save 40% off of a physical book" when it's not true. You CAN say "you will save 40% off of list price" which is accurate. But true out of pocket savings from the physical books from the largest online retailer of books that everyone buys from, there just isn't any (save the PHB and DM Guide). Picking a higher price to show savings is exactly what you are doing.
Can you please tell me this one thing; Do you view Amazon as overcharging (by around 40% at current pricing) for the Player's Handbook?
Because if you don't, it seems you are actually basing your opinion of prices on MSRP - just doing so inconsistently.
No, I view them as being cheap and reliable. Again, not sure how much more clear I can be, I don't really care what MSRP is. Make it $100 billion for the MSRP, who cares. I am going by what I can actually buy a physical book for. The PHB and DMG are about $10 more if I remember correctly and all other content is similarly priced as on there (coupe cents more or a couple less depending on which one you look at). Why can't there be similar savings on the other content as well? Amazon PHB is $39, Beyond is $29, that's 25%, not 40%, and why isn't the other content 25% below as well?
It makes sense that a physical book that needs written, tested, illustrated, printed, shipped, etc. costs more. It seems like 25% more than what you can actually buy it for doesn't seem like an unreasonable markup. Why does that pricing difference not extend to the other content? Again, MSRP means nothing as you don't pay MSRP unless you want to. How is Amazon charging 40% more? I have not seen a price on a physical book 40% less than the $39 they are charging. If you could shoot up a link to this amazing store then I will be more than happy to buy my books there (as would everyone else here).
No, I view them as being cheap and reliable. Again, not sure how much more clear I can be, I don't really care what MSRP is.
I think that more of the reason why you view Amazon prices as being cheap and reliable relies on the existence of a reasonably-set MSRP than you are realizing.
Because without MSRP as a gauge for the price, how would it not look complete unreasonable that two books of similar page count and production value have noticeably different prices like happens relatively often?
Again, MSRP means nothing as you don't pay MSRP unless you want to.
Short of criminal activity, it's actually that you pay MSRP unless someone wants to give you a discount. And again, the existence of one discount option does not make another discount option not a discount.
How is Amazon charging 40% more? I have not seen a price on a physical book 40% less than the $39 they are charging.
You've got it backwards. I was suggesting that if you consider the rougly $29 price of Xanathar's Guide as "that's just the price of a D&D book" that the roughly $40 price of the Player's Handbook would be considered overcharging by 40%, unless not being consistent in consideration of prices.
...as would everyone else here...
Speaking for others is unwise, especially when you actually mean "most" or "many" but typed out "everyone" because you thought it sounded better. Price is not the only factor people use to determine where they will make their purchases.
If you are paying $40 from Amazon, well then, really Amazon is overcharging you by 50%! You should not buy from them! Anyone that does is a natural born sucker.
DDB has the Compendium Content Only (which is in fact the same content as the book, less the tools) for only $19.99. to pay more would be asinine.
I know this sounds ridiculous, but it is the argument being made for anyone who buys at MSRP in a FLGS instead of Amazon (and yes, Walmart is cheaper so you are getting screwed over by Amazon again, so ha!). So either you can buy the physical version and pay more, or the digital version and pay less since it is all about costs to you. Then if you want to use the tools, you will have to pay more to use them too. I hope you have a wonderful day.
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I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Can you please tell me this one thing; Do you view Amazon as overcharging (by around 40% at current pricing) for the Player's Handbook?
Because if you don't, it seems you are actually basing your opinion of prices on MSRP - just doing so inconsistently.
No, I view them as being cheap and reliable. Again, not sure how much more clear I can be, I don't really care what MSRP is. Make it $100 billion for the MSRP, who cares. I am going by what I can actually buy a physical book for. The PHB and DMG are about $10 more if I remember correctly and all other content is similarly priced as on there (coupe cents more or a couple less depending on which one you look at). Why can't there be similar savings on the other content as well? Amazon PHB is $39, Beyond is $29, that's 25%, not 40%, and why isn't the other content 25% below as well?
It makes sense that a physical book that needs written, tested, illustrated, printed, shipped, etc. costs more. It seems like 25% more than what you can actually buy it for doesn't seem like an unreasonable markup. Why does that pricing difference not extend to the other content? Again, MSRP means nothing as you don't pay MSRP unless you want to. How is Amazon charging 40% more? I have not seen a price on a physical book 40% less than the $39 they are charging. If you could shoot up a link to this amazing store then I will be more than happy to buy my books there (as would everyone else here).
because thank God in a free economy market, they can charge whatever price they darn well please and you have three choices about it. 1) Pay it, use it. 2) Don't pay, don't use (except only the free part). or 3) (and one of my favorites) Build your own system like DDB, for personal use and use it all you want for free.
As for your little cost equation, the only savings is the printing and shipping...and in place of that DDB has developer time to put the content in DDB format (it is not as if WOTC is doing all the hard work and just giving them a file that they can plug in and make work), cost of database servers, cost of maintenance, cost of licensing (WOTC doesn't charge themselves, duh), etc...
yeah, people only pay MSRP that want to...or those that do not have a Credit Card or those that do not have internet (yes, some people in the WORLD do not have internet), or that that was bought as a gift (yeah, i admit, this one is stretching it, but Grandparents don't always shop online). Might be more examples out there if i wanted to look hard enough.
So when you look at a product in a store, do you always wait to go buy it from Amazon or do you just buy it right there? I mean, they are cheaper on most things anyways.
Speaking for others is unwise, especially when you actually mean "most" or "many" but typed out "everyone" because you thought it sounded better. Price is not the only factor people use to determine where they will make their purchases.
You don't speak for me, so his statement is false.
If someone were to send him a link where the books are only $10 each and may (or may not) just be a scam site that wants his CC info, I sure don't want to try and buy there.
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I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
If I want to use it in my various VTT's I should be able to, the way things are set up right now is ... I have to buy a copy (same format and info) for each VTT I want to use it in. That is like having to buy a printed copy for each time you get together for an in person game.
There's where you're wrong, though... There's no "same format and info" situation going on here... Info, yes, but each one of these platforms has to take this data and put it into a format compatible with said platform. It is not a matter of WotC handing out a file and everyone else just consuming it wholesale.
Which is why there should be separation between the content and the tools that use said content. You pay for the content ONCE and then you pay for the tools, like here at DDB. Current system is you pay for the same content multiple times... FG, Roll20, etc.
teak
DDB has Compendium only Content, that is for the book only, no tools. PHB is $19.99. there you go. it is seperate from the tools.
Otherwise, What you are asking for is something you should bring up to WOTC, not here at DDB.
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I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
If you are paying $40 from Amazon, well then, really Amazon is overcharging you by 50%! You should not buy from them! Anyone that does is a natural born sucker.
DDB has the Compendium Content Only (which is in fact the same content as the book, less the tools) for only $19.99. to pay more would be asinine.
I know this sounds ridiculous, but it is the argument being made for anyone who buys at MSRP in a FLGS instead of Amazon (and yes, Walmart is cheaper so you are getting screwed over by Amazon again, so ha!). So either you can buy the physical version and pay more, or the digital version and pay less since it is all about costs to you. Then if you want to use the tools, you will have to pay more to use them too. I hope you have a wonderful day.
So you are completely missing the entire point here as is the other guy. It's not all about price, its cost vs value and why something costs what it does. Some people do want to support their game store and I entirely respect that, but it is their choice. I, unfortunately, do not have a store close to me otherwise I would probably pay that extra amount, but I don't need to. There are more times than not that I go to a really nice restaurant rather than taco bell, drink crown and not well liquor, drive a really nice SUV and not a Corolla, because I can justify the higher expense based on quality and service. I cannot get DND (not &) Beyond at a local store, so I will go by the actual pricing and what I actually paid, not a suggested price that is optional. You keep pointing out a HUGE price difference between the physical books and the digital content when in some cases it is the same. I am just asking WHY. That's all. Why is one book 25% more (or 50% in your head) and another is 0%? Not that pricing will change based on anything we say here, I'm just trying to get a little info and calling someone a sucker isn't really all that productive (that Rolex I got in Manhattan on the street is real dernit!).
I am sorry that I used the term everyone before. I was just thinking that in a thread that is completely due to pricing and a business model that we were talking about..... price. Lower price for same thing would, in my mind, be a good thing. I will reword... Most people would like to buy something they want for the lowest price possible and still get the same product and service.
Have a good evening and have a great time gaming! We are all on the same team here :)
Yeah lol give Spastik a break. I'm seeing a pattern of picking apart small details and getting lost in those rather than addressing the obvious point ... I mean, it was obvious at one point I think ... I forgot now with all the distractions. We're comparing prices from different vendors (and sometimes different products) to ... what purpose? To discuss why there are different prices and why different consumers would pay them?
I think it is a fair assumption that the subscription service is there to cover Curse's costs. While the book sales are split in such a way that WotC profit per book is the same.
The problem is that Curse and WotC are trying to reinvent the wheel here by forcing the purchase of the service to be tied to the purchase of the content. Nothing they are doing is new, that is why many are not all that happy about how they are doing it.
If they instead offered something like the following people would be a lot more positive about this whole thing:
1. Provide a way for those who buy or already have bought the physical copy of the books a way to reclaim access to that content only. They would only be able to read and search the content of the books they own, unless they do step two.
2. Separate the purchase of the content from the service, you can offer to bundle them when people buy the digital only content, but price them out separately, and offer a service only price option for those who already own the content. $5-10 per book depending on if it is core or not would be reasonable I think.
3. Expand the benefits of subscribing. Not sure how, but as it is there is really only a need for one person per group to even want to subscribe. Make it so that people will want to sub even though they don't need to do so.
I think it is a fair assumption that the subscription service is there to cover Curse's costs. While the book sales are split in such a way that WotC profit per book is the same.
Yes, someone gets it.
The problem is that Curse and WotC are trying to reinvent the wheel here by forcing the purchase of the service to be tied to the purchase of the content. Nothing they are doing is new, that is why many are not all that happy about how they are doing it.
I don't think so. it is the same wheel that others have used before and seemed to work. I don't use Roll20 or FG. Can you use those and include homebrew and buy ans use books without being subscribed with their service? You do not here, you can but them all and use all the tools except content sharing without a subscription. Fun Fact: Did you know that books on FG and Roll20 were also $50 before DDB came along? You do not get credit if you have the physical on either site either.
If they instead offered something like the following people would be a lot more positive about this whole thing:
1. Provide a way for those who buy or already have bought the physical copy of the books a way to reclaim access to that content only. They would only be able to read and search the content of the books they own, unless they do step two.
As has been stated over..and over...and over. There is no way for anyone to prove that they purchased the book and still retain it. How is it fair if you bought it at the FLGS and no longer have the receipt? Sorry, too bad for you? How is that fair? What is fair, everyone pays the same price no matter what. I happen to own both physical and digital. I paid for both. Will you give me a refund on said books?
2. Separate the purchase of the content from the service, you can offer to bundle them when people buy the digital only content, but price them out separately, and offer a service only price option for those who already own the content. $5-10 per book depending on if it is core or not would be reasonable I think.
Well, WOTC happens to disagree and wants a licensing cost for every book. See point 1. However, there is a compendium only that you only get the book for $19.99 on DDB. So they have shown the separation. They offer the price to get it with the tools first as that is what most people want anyways.
3. Expand the benefits of subscribing. Not sure how, but as it is there is really only a need for one person per group to even want to subscribe. Make it so that people will want to sub even though they don't need to do so.
Well, they made this a bonus. really they didn't have to have content sharing, but this is modeled after the "you show up at the table with all the books to share with all your friends there" idea. Plus as a group, if you all go in together, it makes it cheaper. Only the master tier needs to turn on content sharing, then no matter who owns what, it is all shared to the group. Otherwise, the benefit of subscribing is to get more database space to hold unlimited characters. this is true for either level you get in at.
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I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
If you are paying $40 from Amazon, well then, really Amazon is overcharging you by 50%! You should not buy from them! Anyone that does is a natural born sucker.
DDB has the Compendium Content Only (which is in fact the same content as the book, less the tools) for only $19.99. to pay more would be asinine.
I know this sounds ridiculous, but it is the argument being made for anyone who buys at MSRP in a FLGS instead of Amazon (and yes, Walmart is cheaper so you are getting screwed over by Amazon again, so ha!). So either you can buy the physical version and pay more, or the digital version and pay less since it is all about costs to you. Then if you want to use the tools, you will have to pay more to use them too. I hope you have a wonderful day.
So you are completely missing the entire point here as is the other guy. It's not all about price, its cost vs value and why something costs what it does. Some people do want to support their game store and I entirely respect that, but it is their choice. I, unfortunately, do not have a store close to me otherwise I would probably pay that extra amount, but I don't need to. There are more times than not that I go to a really nice restaurant rather than taco bell, drink crown and not well liquor, drive a really nice SUV and not a Corolla, because I can justify the higher expense based on quality and service. I cannot get DND (not &) Beyond at a local store, so I will go by the actual pricing and what I actually paid, not a suggested price that is optional. You keep pointing out a HUGE price difference between the physical books and the digital content when in some cases it is the same. I am just asking WHY. That's all. Why is one book 25% more (or 50% in your head) and another is 0%? Not that pricing will change based on anything we say here, I'm just trying to get a little info and calling someone a sucker isn't really all that productive (that Rolex I got in Manhattan on the street is real dernit!).
I am sorry that I used the term everyone before. I was just thinking that in a thread that is completely due to pricing and a business model that we were talking about..... price. Lower price for same thing would, in my mind, be a good thing. I will reword... Most people would like to buy something they want for the lowest price possible and still get the same product and service.
Have a good evening and have a great time gaming! We are all on the same team here :)
my "local" flgs is at least 20 miles away so I feel your pain. However, you said you don't care about MSRP which is ridiculous as you need to have a reference point to obtain value. Otherwise you wouldn't know if what you just bought was a bad deal, a good deal or a great deal.
I know the source books each have a compendium price, which is to say apples to apples if you only want to compare a physical book to a digital book. otherwise you are going by the added DDB service which to me, does add more end value. So if you were willing to purchase a physical book at $39 which is whatever percent off MSRP, then buying the digital for $19.99 is a way better deal. even if you wish to ignore the MSRP, then it is still a good deal for the digital over the physical.
Now, I will give you the following points.
With a physical book i can carry it no matter where i go and use it where ever/whenever i want. DDB i have to be connected to the internet to use it*
With a physical book, i can hand it to another person and they can use it and look up whatever they want. DDB, you would have to be subscribes to a master account and they need a free account in your shared content campaign to access the books.
I just wanted three bulletin points and i couldn't think of anything else off the top of my head.
Now to ask why on DDB the evaluation is different on each book, which is what you said your whole post was about, I couldn't tell you. I am not on the inside track. What I looked up and found interesting is that except for Hoard, Lost Mines, and Tales, every book has a compendium price of $19.99. Hoard is $14.99, Lost Mines is $9.99, and Tales doesn't have one. Also of note, Rise of Tiamat, even though the regular cost is $19.99, so is the compendium price. What this tell me is that price will covers at least the licensing fee and maybe some of Curse's cost. otherwise, the other $5 to $10 cover's Curse's cost to build, maintain, promote, etc. Thus perhaps it is that the books with more resources in it take more time and therefore costs more. I didn't look that far, but maybe someone else will.
And yeah, Curse needs to make money too to keep running.
Edit: Forgot the *Yes i know that they are coming out with a app that will allow it to be used offline. However, to me this is a poor replacement to using it on my computer where my old eyes can actually make use of the resources DDB has.
The problem is that Curse and WotC are trying to reinvent the wheel here by forcing the purchase of the service to be tied to the purchase of the content. Nothing they are doing is new, that is why many are not all that happy about how they are doing it.
I don't think so. it is the same wheel that others have used before and seemed to work. I don't use Roll20 or FG. Can you use those and include homebrew and buy ans use books without being subscribed with their service? You do not here, you can but them all and use all the tools except content sharing without a subscription.
Fun Fact: Did you know that books on FG and Roll20 were also $50 before DDB came along? You do not get credit if you have the physical on either site either.
The pricing scheme is what I was referring to them trying to reinvent the wheel. There have been methods to officially convert physical to digital, with numerous other games that have made the transition from physical to digital. The tried and true method has generally been, to offer a very nominal fee ($10 or less per item, usually much less) to grant the owner of the physical copy a digital one.
I don't use any of the services. Roll20 and FG have been simply licensed to sell digital content. Before the existence of DDB, WotC, having not established internal digital values for the books, most likely gave them both deals similar to what they gave to stores which sold their physical books. After the coming of DDB, WotC had established at least a baseline value to allow for the other providers to renegotiate prices and if they chose lower the prices.
Fun Fact: Neither Roll20 nor FG are now working or have ever (to my knowledge) worked in collaboration with WotC to make their services. They have simply had their service and sold the books and such on their. Curse however is working in collaboration with WotC. Without WotC collaboration and support, I am fairly sure that this site would go poof.
If they instead offered something like the following people would be a lot more positive about this whole thing:
1. Provide a way for those who buy or already have bought the physical copy of the books a way to reclaim access to that content only. They would only be able to read and search the content of the books they own, unless they do step two.
As has been stated over..and over...and over. There is no way for anyone to prove that they purchased the book and still retain it. How is it fair if you bought it at the FLGS and no longer have the receipt? Sorry, too bad for you? How is that fair? What is fair, everyone pays the same price no matter what. I happen to own both physical and digital. I paid for both. Will you give me a refund on said books?
First off, there are numerous ways to prove that someone purchased the book, the most commonly used method is to send in the UPC code from the item in question. This isn't ideal in the case of books, as it would damage the cover, but it would prevent anyone from claiming more than one book. There is also the alternative of providing local sellers with access to codes for a period of time which would give the owner a discount on the site equal to the cost of the compendium copy; the local seller would then somehow mark the book in a uniform method which would prevent it from being able to be claimed additional times. Either way involves some kind of indelible mark being made upon the book.
Second, it doesn't matter if the person retains the book after they claimed it or not; no one else would be able to claim the digital copy of the book again. So since the only thing that they are getting by showing the book is a Compendium copy, why would they bother buying a physical copy of the book which will in all likelihood cost more than the compendium copy?
Third, using a receipt is asking for multiple claims of the same item, because all they will be sending is a copy; due to the likelihood that multiple items were purchased on the same receipt. Thus as I mentioned above, the UPC or a system involving bringing the books to your authorized FLGS and they would mark its use and give you a code to claim your $19.99 coupon.
2. Separate the purchase of the content from the service, you can offer to bundle them when people buy the digital only content, but price them out separately, and offer a service only price option for those who already own the content. $5-10 per book depending on if it is core or not would be reasonable I think.
Well, WOTC happens to disagree and wants a licensing cost for every book. See point 1. However, there is a compendium only that you only get the book for $19.99 on DDB. So they have shown the separation. They offer the price to get it with the tools first as that is what most people want anyways.
WotC has already gotten their licensing cost for the books which people have purchased, WotC cannot prevent the digitalization if said person can provide proof that they own said book. This has been covered by innumerable court cases over the past two decades. As long as that person does not provide the digitized version to others enmasse, they are allowed to have such a version of it. If WotC is actually going at this with the intention of forcing people to buy the same content twice, then they really do not deserve my business (or anyone else's IMO).
I had forgotten that they had the Compendium versions, by the looks of it the $5-$10 dollar range I estimated earlier was about right. The joke of an a la cart method that this site has is just insulting. Take Xanathar's Guide to Everything, all-in-one price is $29.99, the compendium is $19.99, subclasses are $9.99, feats are $3.99, magic items are $6.99, and spells are $4.99; so since there is no way to just buy the usage of all on DDB without the compendium that $10 dollar difference ballons into $25.96. That is insane; either the compendium price needs to drop or the various sets need to drop. A way to be able to use all without the compendium for at most $15 would be at least tolerable, 50% higher for buying separate rather than almost 260% more.
3. Expand the benefits of subscribing. Not sure how, but as it is there is really only a need for one person per group to even want to subscribe. Make it so that people will want to sub even though they don't need to do so.
Well, they made this a bonus. really they didn't have to have content sharing, but this is modeled after the "you show up at the table with all the books to share with all your friends there" idea. Plus as a group, if you all go in together, it makes it cheaper. Only the master tier needs to turn on content sharing, then no matter who owns what, it is all shared to the group. Otherwise, the benefit of subscribing is to get more database space to hold unlimited characters. this is true for either level you get in at.
I understand that and am not wanting it expanded to get more from it (neither I nor anyone I know has a subscription). There is little to no reason for most people to subscribe more than a single account per 12 to 36 people. I mean ignore the ads, and you can print out the character sheet then delete the existing character if you want to make another. I'm also not asking for game content, but just something to make it more enticing to do something like the Hero tier when someone else is already Master tier in the group.
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Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
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Grant K. Smith
A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
Only issue here is that you have to go from MSRP. You can't just pick a cost you found from a retailer that has already discounted pricing. Otherwise I could find someone who sells at a higher price to show a higher cost savings. Neither are true. Thus why we have MSRP to base it off of.
yes, in your opinion, that is over priced. However, the publisher has determined that this is a fair market value through costs, research and probably other factors i don't really want/need to know. Honestly, using your logic, video games should costs $10 since once it is done, all they have to do is copy it and let me download it/buy it. Also, if Amazon can sell the book for $30, then you know that the FLGS is making at least $20 of each book.
Also, you forgot Supply and Demand, can be used to manipulate the value. If no one wants it, the price would plummet, thus making it cheaper. on the flip side, they can make an exclusive cover for B&M only and release it two weeks early and charge a higher price and people will pay for it. The original MSRP, however, as I stated before, comes from market research and associated costs. It is not just some magic number they pulled out of a hat. Also, this builds in anti price fixing schemes.
And thus, the Micro-transaction was born. We can sell a base product cheaper and then you get to buy all the little addons to make the video game really playable, or we could wrap it all up together and charge a higher price that no one will pay. of course, you don't have to buy the full book on DDB either. You can buy only what you need and be happy and move on.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! This is why WOTC will not make PDF's. You just proved my point.
Also, some people do not even upgrade and continue to play 1st, AD&D, 2nd, 3rd, 3.5 and (shudders) 4th. They are getting way more milage out of that fun per dollar than most people get with video games. Video games today last about a year if that before the next big thing is hyped up or a new version comes out. I bought Titanfall when it came out on PC. Was fun for about 6 months - to a year and then they were already talking TF2. TF release was 3/2014 and TF2 was 10/2016.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
A little bit of nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men...
- Willy Wonka
Can you please tell me this one thing; Do you view Amazon as overcharging (by around 40% at current pricing) for the Player's Handbook?
Because if you don't, it seems you are actually basing your opinion of prices on MSRP - just doing so inconsistently.
I think that more of the reason why you view Amazon prices as being cheap and reliable relies on the existence of a reasonably-set MSRP than you are realizing.
Because without MSRP as a gauge for the price, how would it not look complete unreasonable that two books of similar page count and production value have noticeably different prices like happens relatively often?
Short of criminal activity, it's actually that you pay MSRP unless someone wants to give you a discount. And again, the existence of one discount option does not make another discount option not a discount.
You've got it backwards. I was suggesting that if you consider the rougly $29 price of Xanathar's Guide as "that's just the price of a D&D book" that the roughly $40 price of the Player's Handbook would be considered overcharging by 40%, unless not being consistent in consideration of prices.
Speaking for others is unwise, especially when you actually mean "most" or "many" but typed out "everyone" because you thought it sounded better. Price is not the only factor people use to determine where they will make their purchases.I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Yeah lol give Spastik a break. I'm seeing a pattern of picking apart small details and getting lost in those rather than addressing the obvious point ... I mean, it was obvious at one point I think ... I forgot now with all the distractions. We're comparing prices from different vendors (and sometimes different products) to ... what purpose? To discuss why there are different prices and why different consumers would pay them?
I think it is a fair assumption that the subscription service is there to cover Curse's costs. While the book sales are split in such a way that WotC profit per book is the same.
The problem is that Curse and WotC are trying to reinvent the wheel here by forcing the purchase of the service to be tied to the purchase of the content. Nothing they are doing is new, that is why many are not all that happy about how they are doing it.
If they instead offered something like the following people would be a lot more positive about this whole thing:
1. Provide a way for those who buy or already have bought the physical copy of the books a way to reclaim access to that content only. They would only be able to read and search the content of the books they own, unless they do step two.
2. Separate the purchase of the content from the service, you can offer to bundle them when people buy the digital only content, but price them out separately, and offer a service only price option for those who already own the content. $5-10 per book depending on if it is core or not would be reasonable I think.
3. Expand the benefits of subscribing. Not sure how, but as it is there is really only a need for one person per group to even want to subscribe. Make it so that people will want to sub even though they don't need to do so.
What?
You know the use of the letter 'N' instead of an ampersand is only because of how domain names are set up, right?
The ampersand is used in every logo, and even shows up when I look at what my browser tab (rather than the address bar) says I am looking at.
Yes, someone gets it.
I don't think so. it is the same wheel that others have used before and seemed to work. I don't use Roll20 or FG. Can you use those and include homebrew and buy ans use books without being subscribed with their service? You do not here, you can but them all and use all the tools except content sharing without a subscription.
Fun Fact: Did you know that books on FG and Roll20 were also $50 before DDB came along? You do not get credit if you have the physical on either site either.
As has been stated over..and over...and over. There is no way for anyone to prove that they purchased the book and still retain it. How is it fair if you bought it at the FLGS and no longer have the receipt? Sorry, too bad for you? How is that fair? What is fair, everyone pays the same price no matter what. I happen to own both physical and digital. I paid for both. Will you give me a refund on said books?
Well, WOTC happens to disagree and wants a licensing cost for every book. See point 1. However, there is a compendium only that you only get the book for $19.99 on DDB. So they have shown the separation. They offer the price to get it with the tools first as that is what most people want anyways.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Now to ask why on DDB the evaluation is different on each book, which is what you said your whole post was about, I couldn't tell you. I am not on the inside track. What I looked up and found interesting is that except for Hoard, Lost Mines, and Tales, every book has a compendium price of $19.99. Hoard is $14.99, Lost Mines is $9.99, and Tales doesn't have one. Also of note, Rise of Tiamat, even though the regular cost is $19.99, so is the compendium price. What this tell me is that price will covers at least the licensing fee and maybe some of Curse's cost. otherwise, the other $5 to $10 cover's Curse's cost to build, maintain, promote, etc. Thus perhaps it is that the books with more resources in it take more time and therefore costs more. I didn't look that far, but maybe someone else will.
And yeah, Curse needs to make money too to keep running.
Edit: Forgot the *Yes i know that they are coming out with a app that will allow it to be used offline. However, to me this is a poor replacement to using it on my computer where my old eyes can actually make use of the resources DDB has.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
First off, there are numerous ways to prove that someone purchased the book, the most commonly used method is to send in the UPC code from the item in question. This isn't ideal in the case of books, as it would damage the cover, but it would prevent anyone from claiming more than one book. There is also the alternative of providing local sellers with access to codes for a period of time which would give the owner a discount on the site equal to the cost of the compendium copy; the local seller would then somehow mark the book in a uniform method which would prevent it from being able to be claimed additional times. Either way involves some kind of indelible mark being made upon the book.
Second, it doesn't matter if the person retains the book after they claimed it or not; no one else would be able to claim the digital copy of the book again. So since the only thing that they are getting by showing the book is a Compendium copy, why would they bother buying a physical copy of the book which will in all likelihood cost more than the compendium copy?
Third, using a receipt is asking for multiple claims of the same item, because all they will be sending is a copy; due to the likelihood that multiple items were purchased on the same receipt. Thus as I mentioned above, the UPC or a system involving bringing the books to your authorized FLGS and they would mark its use and give you a code to claim your $19.99 coupon.