I don't see that. Yes, AT levels don't count for more slots until you collect three of them, but that would hold true whether you have the wizard level(s) or not. An AT 3 has the slots of a first-level caster. So does a Rogue 2/Wiz 1. The AT3/Wiz2 has the slots of a third-level caster and potentially had those slots at level 4; AT5 would only hit third-level caster status and obtain second-level slots at 7. An AT5/wiz2, which is the most inefficient level split by the multiclassing rules, still has second level slots, and no matter which class they take their next level in they get third at 8th-level. They have more second-level than a straight AT, and the straight AT only gets 3rd-level slots at 13th level. Yes, the level of spells you can learn/cast stays lower, but the actual number of spells you can cast per day never gets lower as a Trickster because you snagged a Wizard level. To say nothing of relieving intense cantrip pressure and broadening your pool of off-school spells.
There's reasons to go straight AT, of course. But I've never seen the sort of crippling drawbacks for splashing some wizard that everyone else in here is talking about. 'Course, I'm also one of those who focuses less on absolutely maximizing combat potential at the expense of everything else, which the Trickster is honestly a bad subclass for anyways. People who want to play Excel & Dragons and create the Ultimate DPR are better served with Assassin, Swashbuckler, or frankly just staying away from Rogue entirely. Tricksters work better when you have a big fat sack of clever tricks and innovative uses for low-level spells, which Wizard levels help out with a great deal.
I don't see that. Yes, AT levels don't count for more slots until you collect three of them, but that would hold true whether you have the wizard level(s) or not.
No it wouldn't, because the multiclassing rules change how your AT levels are rounded. Every partial caster's single-classed spell slots are clearly based on rounding up after dividing your level by 2 or 3; a 4th level Arcane Trickster is treated like a 2nd level spellcaster for spell slot purposes (⌈4/3⌉ = 2). As soon as you pick up another class with the Spellcasting feature, you're forced to round down, so the same 4th level Arcane Trickster with 1 wizard level has a total caster level of ⌊4/3⌋ + 1 = 1 + 1 = 2, which is exactly what they already had while single-classed. You can see this in D&D Beyond's character builder:
The difference in rounding means you're always losing a level when you multiclass and your AT/EK/Paladin/Ranger level isn't evenly divisible. The only class exempt from this is the Artificer, whose multiclassing rules tell you to round up. Even worse, unless you're specifically paying attention to your spell slots when you add that wizard level, you might not even realize this is happening.
Now if you have a generous DM that understands this problem and is willing to house rule the rounding issue, that's awesome. There's no good way to work around it in DDB though, and Adventurer's League players are out of luck.
We had this discussion yesterday in another thread. If you build an AT to level 20, and another character to AT 18/Wiz 2, you will see that at 20th level, that MCed character actually gains an additional 4th-level slot and looses no levels of “Trickster spells known,” with additional cantrips and 1st-level spell utility on top.
That's perfectly fine if you're starting the game at 20th level, I guess. And even then, you're still getting only 1 caster level over an AT 20 or AT 19/wizard 1 or AT 19/warlock 1, while they still get their 19th level ASI and last Sneak Attack die, and the warlock dip also gets you extra 1st level slots.
My point isn't that the wizard dip brings absolutely nothing to the table, just that the way the multiclassing rules work make it bring less than it should and most players don't realize that until it's too late.
It sounds like you've come to terms with your character and made the decision to keep the wizard levels.
Grabbing a third level does give you access to 2nd level spells faster. That sounds like it's important to you so it might be worth doing. Just remember, unless you are stacking your intellect or otherwise getting it up high (which probably shouldn't be an immediate priority), your spell attack and spell save bonus won't be as effective as your attacks with dex most of the time. Keep most of your spell choices centered on spells that aren't making spell attacks or forcing saves. Also keep in mind that you can add spells to your wizard spellbook. This will let you eventually trade out your level one AT spells for higher level spells.
As for the bard being able to do many of the skill monkey/ spellcasting things that you can do- there are some things that you'll be able to do that they won't particularly with your invisible mage hand. Let your character's (and your disdain) for the bard occasionally surface with harmless tricks from that feature alone, in addition to playing up the benefits of having a mage hand that can't be seen for stealthy setups and distractions.
One thing that you mentioned during your rant that hasn't been addressed yet is the fact that you can get sneak attack merely by attacking someone that's within 5 feet of another of it's enemies and feeling like that limits the effectiveness of spells that give you advantage on the attack. Sure you can get the sneak attack damage, but a factor that you seem to be discounting is the importance of advantage. Your hit percentage goes up since you only need one of the two rolls to qualify for a hit, your chance of a critical miss drops to 1/400 since you need to roll back to back 1's, and you double your crit rate since you only need one of the rolls to qualify for a crit. Each roll has a 5% chance of being a 20 and there are no penalties for having one not be a penalty. That gives you a 10% crit rate normally. This is important because the crit applies to your sneak attack damage as well as the weapon attack. As such, your ideal attack priority should be a target that you can attack with advantage, then a target within 5 feet of another of it's enemies (does not need to be your ally), then a target that your party is focusing down (may take precedence on a case by case basis, since dead enemies typically don't cause damage), then a character that is attacking an ally, and finally any other enemy. If you can get several of those qualities on a target that will change that priority.
One thing that you mentioned during your rant that hasn't been addressed yet is the fact that you can get sneak attack merely by attacking someone that's within 5 feet of another of it's enemies and feeling like that limits the effectiveness of spells that give you advantage on the attack. Sure you can get the sneak attack damage, but a factor that you seem to be discounting is the importance of advantage. Your hit percentage goes up since you only need one of the two rolls to qualify for a hit, your chance of a critical miss drops to 1/400 since you need to roll back to back 1's, and you double your crit rate since you only need one of the rolls to qualify for a crit. Each roll has a 5% chance of being a 20 and there are no penalties for having one not be a penalty. That gives you a 10% crit rate normally. This is important because the crit applies to your sneak attack damage as well as the weapon attack. As such, your ideal attack priority should be a target that you can attack with advantage, then a target within 5 feet of another of it's enemies (does not need to be your ally), then a target that your party is focusing down (may take precedence on a case by case basis, since dead enemies typically don't cause damage), then a character that is attacking an ally, and finally any other enemy. If you can get several of those qualities on a target that will change that priority.
This is valid, and during my rant I articulated poorly. Advantage is very important and having many tools to gain it is great. Im more disappointed that there is no difference between ambushing someone from the shadows and ambushing someone who is blinded from the shadows. Really this could be wrapped up in the general rule complaint that so many situations call for a coup de gras which is not addressed in the rules.
Generally though, Im feeling less ranty. Finding that Shadow Blade exists helped me even out my future damage output concerns. Im already an Int rogue for character-sake so the wizard levels make sense and our adventure today made me realize how many areas I can shine in that are non-combat ( exploring a wizard's pyramid is an AT wet dream ). We encountered an aboleth down there and, while I missed every single attack and dealt 0 damage to it, eventually the bard cursed it. Thanks to portent my character could just relax against the wall eating an apple and say "I've seen this before, the creature fails its next two saves and takes no actions. Barbarian you may commence with the smashing".
Heh. One recommendation I offer for roleplay funsies is treating Portent like a Sherlock Scan. Your character zens out and just takes in a huge amount of information all at once, then deduces exactly what has to happen in the next few moments. Really leans into the whole magical-mastermind thing, and further gives you an opportunity to distance yourself from the bard as an exceedingly intelligent character.
I love that Idea but I don't know if a 16 int justifies that :P Maybe divination magic acts as a high-powered computer that assists in eliminating sections of possibility-space
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I don't see that. Yes, AT levels don't count for more slots until you collect three of them, but that would hold true whether you have the wizard level(s) or not. An AT 3 has the slots of a first-level caster. So does a Rogue 2/Wiz 1. The AT3/Wiz2 has the slots of a third-level caster and potentially had those slots at level 4; AT5 would only hit third-level caster status and obtain second-level slots at 7. An AT5/wiz2, which is the most inefficient level split by the multiclassing rules, still has second level slots, and no matter which class they take their next level in they get third at 8th-level. They have more second-level than a straight AT, and the straight AT only gets 3rd-level slots at 13th level. Yes, the level of spells you can learn/cast stays lower, but the actual number of spells you can cast per day never gets lower as a Trickster because you snagged a Wizard level. To say nothing of relieving intense cantrip pressure and broadening your pool of off-school spells.
There's reasons to go straight AT, of course. But I've never seen the sort of crippling drawbacks for splashing some wizard that everyone else in here is talking about. 'Course, I'm also one of those who focuses less on absolutely maximizing combat potential at the expense of everything else, which the Trickster is honestly a bad subclass for anyways. People who want to play Excel & Dragons and create the Ultimate DPR are better served with Assassin, Swashbuckler, or frankly just staying away from Rogue entirely. Tricksters work better when you have a big fat sack of clever tricks and innovative uses for low-level spells, which Wizard levels help out with a great deal.
Please do not contact or message me.
No it wouldn't, because the multiclassing rules change how your AT levels are rounded. Every partial caster's single-classed spell slots are clearly based on rounding up after dividing your level by 2 or 3; a 4th level Arcane Trickster is treated like a 2nd level spellcaster for spell slot purposes (⌈4/3⌉ = 2). As soon as you pick up another class with the Spellcasting feature, you're forced to round down, so the same 4th level Arcane Trickster with 1 wizard level has a total caster level of ⌊4/3⌋ + 1 = 1 + 1 = 2, which is exactly what they already had while single-classed. You can see this in D&D Beyond's character builder:
https://ddb.ac/characters/27991769/uwVmOV
https://ddb.ac/characters/27991982/6NpjUo
The difference in rounding means you're always losing a level when you multiclass and your AT/EK/Paladin/Ranger level isn't evenly divisible. The only class exempt from this is the Artificer, whose multiclassing rules tell you to round up. Even worse, unless you're specifically paying attention to your spell slots when you add that wizard level, you might not even realize this is happening.
Now if you have a generous DM that understands this problem and is willing to house rule the rounding issue, that's awesome. There's no good way to work around it in DDB though, and Adventurer's League players are out of luck.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
We had this discussion yesterday in another thread. If you build an AT to level 20, and another character to AT 18/Wiz 2, you will see that at 20th level, that MCed character actually gains an additional 4th-level slot and looses no levels of “Trickster spells known,” with additional cantrips and 1st-level spell utility on top.
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That's perfectly fine if you're starting the game at 20th level, I guess. And even then, you're still getting only 1 caster level over an AT 20 or AT 19/wizard 1 or AT 19/warlock 1, while they still get their 19th level ASI and last Sneak Attack die, and the warlock dip also gets you extra 1st level slots.
My point isn't that the wizard dip brings absolutely nothing to the table, just that the way the multiclassing rules work make it bring less than it should and most players don't realize that until it's too late.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
It sounds like you've come to terms with your character and made the decision to keep the wizard levels.
Grabbing a third level does give you access to 2nd level spells faster. That sounds like it's important to you so it might be worth doing. Just remember, unless you are stacking your intellect or otherwise getting it up high (which probably shouldn't be an immediate priority), your spell attack and spell save bonus won't be as effective as your attacks with dex most of the time. Keep most of your spell choices centered on spells that aren't making spell attacks or forcing saves. Also keep in mind that you can add spells to your wizard spellbook. This will let you eventually trade out your level one AT spells for higher level spells.
As for the bard being able to do many of the skill monkey/ spellcasting things that you can do- there are some things that you'll be able to do that they won't particularly with your invisible mage hand. Let your character's (and your disdain) for the bard occasionally surface with harmless tricks from that feature alone, in addition to playing up the benefits of having a mage hand that can't be seen for stealthy setups and distractions.
One thing that you mentioned during your rant that hasn't been addressed yet is the fact that you can get sneak attack merely by attacking someone that's within 5 feet of another of it's enemies and feeling like that limits the effectiveness of spells that give you advantage on the attack. Sure you can get the sneak attack damage, but a factor that you seem to be discounting is the importance of advantage. Your hit percentage goes up since you only need one of the two rolls to qualify for a hit, your chance of a critical miss drops to 1/400 since you need to roll back to back 1's, and you double your crit rate since you only need one of the rolls to qualify for a crit. Each roll has a 5% chance of being a 20 and there are no penalties for having one not be a penalty. That gives you a 10% crit rate normally. This is important because the crit applies to your sneak attack damage as well as the weapon attack. As such, your ideal attack priority should be a target that you can attack with advantage, then a target within 5 feet of another of it's enemies (does not need to be your ally), then a target that your party is focusing down (may take precedence on a case by case basis, since dead enemies typically don't cause damage), then a character that is attacking an ally, and finally any other enemy. If you can get several of those qualities on a target that will change that priority.
This is valid, and during my rant I articulated poorly. Advantage is very important and having many tools to gain it is great. Im more disappointed that there is no difference between ambushing someone from the shadows and ambushing someone who is blinded from the shadows. Really this could be wrapped up in the general rule complaint that so many situations call for a coup de gras which is not addressed in the rules.
Generally though, Im feeling less ranty. Finding that Shadow Blade exists helped me even out my future damage output concerns. Im already an Int rogue for character-sake so the wizard levels make sense and our adventure today made me realize how many areas I can shine in that are non-combat ( exploring a wizard's pyramid is an AT wet dream ). We encountered an aboleth down there and, while I missed every single attack and dealt 0 damage to it, eventually the bard cursed it. Thanks to portent my character could just relax against the wall eating an apple and say "I've seen this before, the creature fails its next two saves and takes no actions. Barbarian you may commence with the smashing".
Portent is stupid good, yeah.
Heh. One recommendation I offer for roleplay funsies is treating Portent like a Sherlock Scan. Your character zens out and just takes in a huge amount of information all at once, then deduces exactly what has to happen in the next few moments. Really leans into the whole magical-mastermind thing, and further gives you an opportunity to distance yourself from the bard as an exceedingly intelligent character.
Please do not contact or message me.
I love that Idea but I don't know if a 16 int justifies that :P Maybe divination magic acts as a high-powered computer that assists in eliminating sections of possibility-space