I wouldn't make Batman a monk, but give him the Unarmed Fighting Style from the Class Feature Variants.
Shadow Step is like the iconic Batman move. OTOH, you'd only really want him to have a three-level dip into fighter to get the one maneuver he'd need (menacing attack). Disarming and tripping is something he can do without those.
I wouldn't make Batman a monk, but give him the Unarmed Fighting Style from the Class Feature Variants.
Shadow Step is like the iconic Batman move. OTOH, you'd only really want him to have a three-level dip into fighter to get the one maneuver he'd need (menacing attack). Disarming and tripping is something he can do without those.
But batman doesn't actually teleport in the comics/movies. He's just sneaky.
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I wouldn't make Batman a monk, but give him the Unarmed Fighting Style from the Class Feature Variants.
Shadow Step is like the iconic Batman move. OTOH, you'd only really want him to have a three-level dip into fighter to get the one maneuver he'd need (menacing attack). Disarming and tripping is something he can do without those.
But batman doesn't actually teleport in the comics/movies. He's just sneaky.
Sure, but it's the closest analog to what looks like magic to his enemies. I mean Iron Man doesn't actually use magic to build his armor, but we're all okay with him as an Artificer.
I wouldn't make Batman a monk, but give him the Unarmed Fighting Style from the Class Feature Variants.
Shadow Step is like the iconic Batman move. OTOH, you'd only really want him to have a three-level dip into fighter to get the one maneuver he'd need (menacing attack). Disarming and tripping is something he can do without those.
But batman doesn't actually teleport in the comics/movies. He's just sneaky.
Sure, but it's the closest analog to what looks like magic to his enemies. I mean Iron Man doesn't actually use magic to build his armor, but we're all okay with him as an Artificer.
I think the closest analogue to batman's sneakiness in D&D is roguish expertise in stealth.
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i made them both in already... unfortunately both are wizards and both have the very same arsenal. yeah they ended up pretty much the same, except that batman was a close quarter combat specialist and the ironman was more of a back line player.
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You guys are missing the point though... just fluffing is enough to create ironman !
the ironman i made was using magic missiles to shoot his rockets and had auto targetting thanks to jarvis. the suit ? simple... i had maximum dex and casted mage armor on myself... no suit, billionnaire playboy... combat erupts, i cast mage armor and describe how my suit of armor just pulled itself from my teleporter or from my wrist watch.
sadly flying was relegated to my 5th level wizard when i could actually cast fly on myself. or you can just take aarakocra and say you look human instead with no wings.
i mean fluffing allows you to do a lot without having to mechanically find anything. it was pretty god damn nice to play ironman though. mind you that was in a modern setting, not medieval fantasy. but we kept the classes as is and only fluffed our casting and abilities.
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I wouldn't make Batman a monk, but give him the Unarmed Fighting Style from the Class Feature Variants.
Shadow Step is like the iconic Batman move. OTOH, you'd only really want him to have a three-level dip into fighter to get the one maneuver he'd need (menacing attack). Disarming and tripping is something he can do without those.
But batman doesn't actually teleport in the comics/movies. He's just sneaky.
Again, I do not think that people really understand superhero power scales. Lift capacity in 5e is double carrying capacity so 30 times strength. Iron Man's lifting capacity is 100 Tons, so 200,000 pounds. That would translate in 5e to around 6,667 Strength..... and people here are saying that Batman is harder to create?
Fundamentally it's because overpowered magic items are easier to create than overpowered class-race combos. Tony Stark can't lift more than an average human. It's his armor that makes him a superhero, so translating him into the game is no more difficult than having a human with high intelligence with a really OP magic item. Batman has gadgets for sure, but it's his own skill that makes him a martial arts expert and "the world's greatest detective". If you gave me a cowl, light tank, and set of batarangs, I'd still be useless. If you gave me Iron Man's suit... well things would be different.
Again, I do not think that people really understand superhero power scales. Lift capacity in 5e is double carrying capacity so 30 times strength. Iron Man's lifting capacity is 100 Tons, so 200,000 pounds. That would translate in 5e to around 6,667 Strength..... and people here are saying that Batman is harder to create?
Fundamentally it's because overpowered magic items are easier to create than overpowered class-race combos. Tony Stark can't lift more than an average human. It's his armor that makes him a superhero, so translating him into the game is no more difficult than having a human with high intelligence with a really OP magic item. Batman has gadgets for sure, but it's his own skill that makes him a martial arts expert and "the world's greatest detective". If you gave me a cowl, light tank, and set of batarangs, I'd still be useless. If you gave me Iron Man's suit... well things would be different.
No, his armor lets him do the “super” stuff. His will is what makes him a superhero.
I wouldn't make Batman a monk, but give him the Unarmed Fighting Style from the Class Feature Variants.
Shadow Step is like the iconic Batman move. OTOH, you'd only really want him to have a three-level dip into fighter to get the one maneuver he'd need (menacing attack). Disarming and tripping is something he can do without those.
But batman doesn't actually teleport in the comics/movies. He's just sneaky.
That’s a flavor reskinning.
Yeah, but in my build of this, I would just ignore the monk class, and go fighter/rogue/artificer. Monk makes it so you can't wear armor.
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I wouldn't make Batman a monk, but give him the Unarmed Fighting Style from the Class Feature Variants.
Shadow Step is like the iconic Batman move. OTOH, you'd only really want him to have a three-level dip into fighter to get the one maneuver he'd need (menacing attack). Disarming and tripping is something he can do without those.
But batman doesn't actually teleport in the comics/movies. He's just sneaky.
That’s a flavor reskinning.
Yeah, but in my build of this, I would just ignore the monk class, and go fighter/rogue/artificer. Monk makes it so you can't wear armor.
No, his armor lets him do the “super” stuff. His will is what makes him a superhero.
Sure, but the "super" stuff is what makes them mechanically interesting. The willpower fluff is just how they'd be played. I mean, Batman also has the brain of Sherlock Holmes, including his own flavor of anti-social compulsions. But that's just high int and fluff.
Yeah, but in my build of this, I would just ignore the monk class, and go fighter/rogue/artificer. Monk makes it so you can't wear armor.
Yeah this is where things get interesting. An armored monk isn't in the cards, but I wouldn't be too concerned about armor for a bat-build because his armor is rarely ever portrayed to provide any serious protection over his ability to simply not be hit. It's a flavor choice, and I can understand wanting the armor to be more important, especially if you're aiming for the Batfleck portrayal. I still don't really see the artificer angle though. He doesn't really need the attunement slots, because most of the gadgets he uses can be matched with official magic items that don't require it. The armorer archetype sounds like a fit if you are aiming for the "heavy" Batman, but it's an illusion. None of the spells make sense, and the armor modifications don't really seem to hit the mark.
Regardless of how it is achieved, a 6,667 strength is game breaking, not merely game bending. That would be a damage modifier of 3,333 and to balance against that you would need to re-balance the entire game. So I stand by my statement that Ironman is harder to make.
The logic you are using, 'just create an overpowered item,' applies just as easily to Batman. Just create a new Batman class. By that logic, Batman is just as easy.
You've 100% missed my point. If hitting an arbitrarily high strength stat is how you're going to measure the success of the build, then sure, but that's not really what Iron Man is known for. My point is that for a human without real superpowers and mind-bogglingly futuristic tech, Batman is complex to make by nature of the 20-level cap and the number of class-archetype combos he could potentially choose. Iron Man, OTOH, is strictly an artificer, and I think most people would be more interested in our ability to match his ability to fly around and shoot stuff. Throw in a belt of storm giant strength if you really need his to arm wrestle Tiamat.
I made a first pass on Batman here. Didn't bother taking a stand on the stats. He's super smart, scares people with a glance, and can fight an army of ninjas.
Again, I do not think that people really understand superhero power scales. Lift capacity in 5e is double carrying capacity so 30 times strength. Iron Man's lifting capacity is 100 Tons, so 200,000 pounds. That would translate in 5e to around 6,667 Strength..... and people here are saying that Batman is harder to create?
even there you are wrong... maximum capacity is multiplied by 15 for a lift overhead ! you also need to multiply that number by 5 if you wanna push or pull something which is easier then lifting it overhead.
a 20 strength medium sized barbarian can lift overhead 20x15=300 pounds which is about right for any humans to be able to. now pushing and lifting is much bigger then this since its easier to push or pull. thanks to weight control. which makes it... 20x15=300x5=1500 pounds ! which is still a pretty decent number for real human beings. considering thats about how much one would need to push a car from nothing to rolling. now all those calculations are for medium sized people... now imagine your goliath barbarian friend becoming enlarged. thats going from medium sized to large sized. each size categories is adding another 15 to the multiplier...
your enlarged barbarian is now capable of... 20x30=600x5=3000 pounds ! we're getting there ! slowly... let's see how tiamat fairs against that barbarian... she is gargantuan... which means she is 3 sizes above the medium size. so thats 15 for medium, 30 for large, 45 for huge and 60 for gargantuan. she has a strength of 30 which is the maximum capacity anyone can get. scores cannot be higher then that. so the calculation now is... 30x60=1800x5=9000 pounds. so in 5e the maximum one can get is 9000 pounds of pushing or lifting. which seems quite low for a dragon to begin with.
i think by now you get that 5e has limitiations that stops you from doing whatever you want. also, tony stark armor had trouble lifting a car. at least at the beginning, if you wanna take ironman at its peak... then batman can just use the green lantern ring and crush ironman and basically any other being as he wishes. seriously, people have to stop comparing gods to regular beings. even hulk is impossible to do in d&d. i agree with the others, you gotta do what you can in the actual limitation of th eengine. not what you should be doing to get the true strength. if you wanna play the real character then i suggest you create your own system and see for yourself how unbalanced it is to clash super heroes against each others.
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even there you are wrong... maximum capacity is multiplied by 15 for a lift overhead ! you also need to multiply that number by 5 if you wanna push or pull something which is easier then lifting it overhead.
That's not quite right, carrying capacity is 15, but that's not for lifting overhead, that's just for what you can carry on your person while moving. Lift, Push and Pull is double your carry
Carrying Capacity. Your carrying capacity is your Strength score multiplied by 15. This is the weight (in pounds) that you can carry, which is high enough that most characters don't usually have to worry about it.
Push, Drag, or Lift. You can push, drag, or lift a weight in pounds up to twice your carrying capacity (or 30 times your Strength score). While pushing or dragging weight in excess of your carrying capacity, your speed drops to 5 feet.
my head again mixes up 3e then... twice is quite low even for regular human being for pushing something... the x5 from 3e made more sense... oh well... it still gets the point across.
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Batman is a Mastermind Rogue that found a bottomless purse to buy a bunch of infusions from Lucius Fox.
Iron-man is an Armorer Artificer that found a bottomless purse to buy a bunch of materials to build all his stuff himself.
Batman is way more than that. He’s also a Battle Master Fighter and a Way of the Shadow Monk at the very least.
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I wouldn't make Batman a monk, but give him the Unarmed Fighting Style from the Class Feature Variants.
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Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Shadow Step is like the iconic Batman move. OTOH, you'd only really want him to have a three-level dip into fighter to get the one maneuver he'd need (menacing attack). Disarming and tripping is something he can do without those.
But batman doesn't actually teleport in the comics/movies. He's just sneaky.
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Sure, but it's the closest analog to what looks like magic to his enemies. I mean Iron Man doesn't actually use magic to build his armor, but we're all okay with him as an Artificer.
I think the closest analogue to batman's sneakiness in D&D is roguish expertise in stealth.
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i made them both in already... unfortunately both are wizards and both have the very same arsenal.
yeah they ended up pretty much the same, except that batman was a close quarter combat specialist and the ironman was more of a back line player.
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You guys are missing the point though...
just fluffing is enough to create ironman !
the ironman i made was using magic missiles to shoot his rockets and had auto targetting thanks to jarvis.
the suit ? simple... i had maximum dex and casted mage armor on myself...
no suit, billionnaire playboy... combat erupts, i cast mage armor and describe how my suit of armor just pulled itself from my teleporter or from my wrist watch.
sadly flying was relegated to my 5th level wizard when i could actually cast fly on myself.
or you can just take aarakocra and say you look human instead with no wings.
i mean fluffing allows you to do a lot without having to mechanically find anything.
it was pretty god damn nice to play ironman though. mind you that was in a modern setting, not medieval fantasy. but we kept the classes as is and only fluffed our casting and abilities.
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That’s a flavor reskinning.
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Fundamentally it's because overpowered magic items are easier to create than overpowered class-race combos. Tony Stark can't lift more than an average human. It's his armor that makes him a superhero, so translating him into the game is no more difficult than having a human with high intelligence with a really OP magic item. Batman has gadgets for sure, but it's his own skill that makes him a martial arts expert and "the world's greatest detective". If you gave me a cowl, light tank, and set of batarangs, I'd still be useless. If you gave me Iron Man's suit... well things would be different.
No, his armor lets him do the “super” stuff. His will is what makes him a superhero.
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Yeah, but in my build of this, I would just ignore the monk class, and go fighter/rogue/artificer. Monk makes it so you can't wear armor.
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Batman’s armor is the night.
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Methinks we should actually put some of these builds together.
Sure, but the "super" stuff is what makes them mechanically interesting. The willpower fluff is just how they'd be played. I mean, Batman also has the brain of Sherlock Holmes, including his own flavor of anti-social compulsions. But that's just high int and fluff.
Yeah this is where things get interesting. An armored monk isn't in the cards, but I wouldn't be too concerned about armor for a bat-build because his armor is rarely ever portrayed to provide any serious protection over his ability to simply not be hit. It's a flavor choice, and I can understand wanting the armor to be more important, especially if you're aiming for the Batfleck portrayal. I still don't really see the artificer angle though. He doesn't really need the attunement slots, because most of the gadgets he uses can be matched with official magic items that don't require it. The armorer archetype sounds like a fit if you are aiming for the "heavy" Batman, but it's an illusion. None of the spells make sense, and the armor modifications don't really seem to hit the mark.
You've 100% missed my point. If hitting an arbitrarily high strength stat is how you're going to measure the success of the build, then sure, but that's not really what Iron Man is known for. My point is that for a human without real superpowers and mind-bogglingly futuristic tech, Batman is complex to make by nature of the 20-level cap and the number of class-archetype combos he could potentially choose. Iron Man, OTOH, is strictly an artificer, and I think most people would be more interested in our ability to match his ability to fly around and shoot stuff. Throw in a belt of storm giant strength if you really need his to arm wrestle Tiamat.
I made a first pass on Batman here. Didn't bother taking a stand on the stats. He's super smart, scares people with a glance, and can fight an army of ninjas.
even there you are wrong... maximum capacity is multiplied by 15 for a lift overhead ! you also need to multiply that number by 5 if you wanna push or pull something which is easier then lifting it overhead.
a 20 strength medium sized barbarian can lift overhead 20x15=300 pounds which is about right for any humans to be able to.
now pushing and lifting is much bigger then this since its easier to push or pull. thanks to weight control. which makes it...
20x15=300x5=1500 pounds ! which is still a pretty decent number for real human beings. considering thats about how much one would need to push a car from nothing to rolling.
now all those calculations are for medium sized people... now imagine your goliath barbarian friend becoming enlarged. thats going from medium sized to large sized.
each size categories is adding another 15 to the multiplier...
your enlarged barbarian is now capable of... 20x30=600x5=3000 pounds ! we're getting there ! slowly...
let's see how tiamat fairs against that barbarian...
she is gargantuan... which means she is 3 sizes above the medium size. so thats 15 for medium, 30 for large, 45 for huge and 60 for gargantuan.
she has a strength of 30 which is the maximum capacity anyone can get. scores cannot be higher then that.
so the calculation now is... 30x60=1800x5=9000 pounds. so in 5e the maximum one can get is 9000 pounds of pushing or lifting. which seems quite low for a dragon to begin with.
i think by now you get that 5e has limitiations that stops you from doing whatever you want.
also, tony stark armor had trouble lifting a car. at least at the beginning, if you wanna take ironman at its peak... then batman can just use the green lantern ring and crush ironman and basically any other being as he wishes. seriously, people have to stop comparing gods to regular beings. even hulk is impossible to do in d&d. i agree with the others, you gotta do what you can in the actual limitation of th eengine. not what you should be doing to get the true strength. if you wanna play the real character then i suggest you create your own system and see for yourself how unbalanced it is to clash super heroes against each others.
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That's not quite right, carrying capacity is 15, but that's not for lifting overhead, that's just for what you can carry on your person while moving. Lift, Push and Pull is double your carry
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/using-ability-scores#LiftingandCarrying
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my head again mixes up 3e then... twice is quite low even for regular human being for pushing something... the x5 from 3e made more sense... oh well... it still gets the point across.
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