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my head again mixes up 3e then... twice is quite low even for regular human being for pushing something... the x5 from 3e made more sense... oh well... it still gets the point across.
Mood, edition confusion is a pain. I mean, two words; Surprise. Round.
my head again mixes up 3e then... twice is quite low even for regular human being for pushing something... the x5 from 3e made more sense... oh well... it still gets the point across.
Mood, edition confusion is a pain. I mean, two words; Surprise. Round.
I wouldn't make Batman a monk, but give him the Unarmed Fighting Style from the Class Feature Variants.
Shadow Step is like the iconic Batman move. OTOH, you'd only really want him to have a three-level dip into fighter to get the one maneuver he'd need (menacing attack). Disarming and tripping is something he can do without those.
But batman doesn't actually teleport in the comics/movies. He's just sneaky.
That’s a flavor reskinning.
Yeah, but in my build of this, I would just ignore the monk class, and go fighter/rogue/artificer. Monk makes it so you can't wear armor.
Batman’s armor is the night.
And physical armor, too.
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This thread got boring quick. Like I've been saying, if you need the build to have arbitrarily high strength, then just don't bother. Say it's impossible and step aside. If you don't need arbitrarily high strength to be satisfied, then lets see some creativity.
I wouldn't make Batman a monk, but give him the Unarmed Fighting Style from the Class Feature Variants.
Shadow Step is like the iconic Batman move. OTOH, you'd only really want him to have a three-level dip into fighter to get the one maneuver he'd need (menacing attack). Disarming and tripping is something he can do without those.
But batman doesn't actually teleport in the comics/movies. He's just sneaky.
That’s a flavor reskinning.
Yeah, but in my build of this, I would just ignore the monk class, and go fighter/rogue/artificer. Monk makes it so you can't wear armor.
Again, I do not think that people really understand superhero power scales. Lift capacity in 5e is double carrying capacity so 30 times strength. Iron Man's lifting capacity is 100 Tons, so 200,000 pounds. That would translate in 5e to around 6,667 Strength..... and people here are saying that Batman is harder to create?
even there you are wrong... maximum capacity is multiplied by 15 for a lift overhead ! you also need to multiply that number by 5 if you wanna push or pull something which is easier then lifting it overhead.
a 20 strength medium sized barbarian can lift overhead 20x15=300 pounds which is about right for any humans to be able to. now pushing and lifting is much bigger then this since its easier to push or pull. thanks to weight control. which makes it... 20x15=300x5=1500 pounds ! which is still a pretty decent number for real human beings. considering thats about how much one would need to push a car from nothing to rolling. now all those calculations are for medium sized people... now imagine your goliath barbarian friend becoming enlarged. thats going from medium sized to large sized. each size categories is adding another 15 to the multiplier...
your enlarged barbarian is now capable of... 20x30=600x5=3000 pounds ! we're getting there ! slowly... let's see how tiamat fairs against that barbarian... she is gargantuan... which means she is 3 sizes above the medium size. so thats 15 for medium, 30 for large, 45 for huge and 60 for gargantuan. she has a strength of 30 which is the maximum capacity anyone can get. scores cannot be higher then that. so the calculation now is... 30x60=1800x5=9000 pounds. so in 5e the maximum one can get is 9000 pounds of pushing or lifting. which seems quite low for a dragon to begin with.
i think by now you get that 5e has limitiations that stops you from doing whatever you want. also, tony stark armor had trouble lifting a car. at least at the beginning, if you wanna take ironman at its peak... then batman can just use the green lantern ring and crush ironman and basically any other being as he wishes. seriously, people have to stop comparing gods to regular beings. even hulk is impossible to do in d&d. i agree with the others, you gotta do what you can in the actual limitation of th eengine. not what you should be doing to get the true strength. if you wanna play the real character then i suggest you create your own system and see for yourself how unbalanced it is to clash super heroes against each others.
"In the beginning" Batman was nowhere near as stealthy, clubbed people with wrenches and occasionally even used a revolver. Not in the many new 'in the beginnings' of course. DC resets their universe every second Tuesday, but still...
As others have pointed out, lift strength is double carrying. And even then, taking into account larger size, Tiamat can only handle 9,000 (x 2) = 18,000 pounds, or a whopping 9 tons. Again, Iron Man can manage 100 tons. He has been known to pick up main battle tanks, fly with them, and throw them. Completely different order of magnitude when it comes to strength. Similarly, he can fly at supersonic speeds, weapon systems can bring down stone buildings without significant power drain, etc.
And more importantly, 30 strength is neither max human strength nor intended to represent max human strength. Barbarians can theoretically get to 24 str, but this is a heroic fantasy setting, not 'normal Earth.' It is expected that a heroic fantasy hero can be far stronger than any normal human. Heracles temporarily supported the weight of the entire bloody Earth!
and yet you fail to realise that event he ironman you praise so much is living in our world where our physics applies. there is literally no amount of human ressources that actually exists that does even a fraction of what he does. he literally had to reinvent the atomics system to get there. you say D&D is nowhere near what humans can do... but in reality if you count how fast 30 feet per 6 seconds is, you'll get that it is a pretty fast walking speed already. your D&D characters are not just regular human bodies, the system has taken what the human in our world is at peak and made that the regular time of your character. 20 strength is probably the peak of human body, anything beyond that requires extensive trainings that only dedicated athletes will ever get. like body builders who pass their entire lives training for the sake of muscles. those body builders don't have time for adventuring to begin with.
again... you say ironman can lift 100 tons easily... so is any mages who takes the time to develop magical items capable of such feats. even better... instead of making you able to lift a 100 tons, they would literally make the thing weight only a fraction of a pound. my biggest issue with your saying is that you think in d&d that we can't create the stuff ironman needs to work... yet, we easily can. but now we have to balance things out of that one. sorry but ironman lifting even a planet is like sub par in a universe where galactus eats them.
reality is... doing ironman in dungeons and dragons, reguardless of the edition is the easy part. Batman on the other hand... you need to create a character that is as inteligent as a wizard, as skillful as a rogue, brutally massacre with punches, kicks, knees, elbows, headbutts !! and above all else... capable of creating technology, or magic items that are capable of rivaling the best of the best, including that ironman of yours ! from where i stand... your ironman is just a wizard, strong because of its magic, pretty god damn weak inside. batman... you'd need at least 3 different classes to make him good ! thats not mentionning you have at least 3 great stats maxed out.
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This is a stupid argument. I'd really just like to see people make the builds rather than argue about something that doesn't exist.
its easy to make the builds actually... Its called a batman mage for wizards and scrolls makes them really intense about being prepared for everything. solving everything...
ironman, is easy to build, its either a wizard too, with fly being its flying ability and magic missile being his rockets, as well as mage armor being his ironman suit.
if you want more, then you go artificer battlesmith which is literally ironman !
all in all, this is an old, very very very old 3rd edition concepts that were easy to make back then. they are still easy to make in 5e, now.
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For the sake of dnd-ifying it, I like the idea of Iron Man being part artificer and part warlock.
Artificer is quite obvious - makes cool, magical armour, giving him his defensive abilities.
You might be thinking "warlock? how is he a warlock?". Well, if you've watched the movies you'll notice he's always talking to his armour. And his armour talks back, as Jarvis. He's always telling Jarvis to do this and that, and Jarvis is always either saying yes or making a sarcastic remark about how he should pay attention to the power of his suit (IE, his spell slots).
So, Jarvis is Iron mans patron; a powerful entity who was cursed to always be bound into inanimate objects. Tony Stark the Artificer discovered him, and made a pact to forge for him a suit of armour to occupy and to take him on his travels, provided he give Tony powers. Thus Iron Man arrived in DnD, with eldritch blasts from his hands as an answer for everything!
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Talesin Jaffe played a character he called "The Owlbear" which was a pretty obvious parody of batman that seemed really close to what he is (with some comedic twists).
I'm not sure if links are allowed so I won't post it, but it's in "The Adventures of the Darrington Brigade" one-shot that they did
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
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This is a stupid argument. I'd really just like to see people make the builds rather than argue about something that doesn't exist.
its easy to make the builds actually... Its called a batman mage for wizards and scrolls makes them really intense about being prepared for everything. solving everything...
ironman, is easy to build, its either a wizard too, with fly being its flying ability and magic missile being his rockets, as well as mage armor being his ironman suit.
if you want more, then you go artificer battlesmith which is literally ironman !
all in all, this is an old, very very very old 3rd edition concepts that were easy to make back then. they are still easy to make in 5e, now.
Iron Man is only a wizard if you are going the item enchanting route and he has enough access to raw materials to basically enchant what he pleases. And even then it falls apart since brilliance does not shortcut the item creation times.
Seriously, I still get the feeling that people commenting on IM have never read a single IM comic.
And not sure how one manages Batman's martial arts prowess as a wizard either. Some sort of rogue/monk combo with herbalism proficiency makes the most sense there. Or literally owning an Artificer's guild.
that'S because you keep doing RAW... it seems you can't undederstand what fluffling means. as an exemple... are spells really needing to be spells ? one could easily say that magic missile is really just a bunch of seeking missiles coming out of the mage armor which is appearing as an ironman suit. fluffing changes nothing of the mechanics but can make your stuff look like anything you want.
as for mages not able to do batmans martial prowess... you really need to make a fist wizard, which is very capable monks by themselves...
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This is a stupid argument. I'd really just like to see people make the builds rather than argue about something that doesn't exist.
its easy to make the builds actually... Its called a batman mage for wizards and scrolls makes them really intense about being prepared for everything. solving everything...
ironman, is easy to build, its either a wizard too, with fly being its flying ability and magic missile being his rockets, as well as mage armor being his ironman suit.
if you want more, then you go artificer battlesmith which is literally ironman !
all in all, this is an old, very very very old 3rd edition concepts that were easy to make back then. they are still easy to make in 5e, now.
Iron Man is only a wizard if you are going the item enchanting route and he has enough access to raw materials to basically enchant what he pleases. And even then it falls apart since brilliance does not shortcut the item creation times.
Seriously, I still get the feeling that people commenting on IM have never read a single IM comic.
And not sure how one manages Batman's martial arts prowess as a wizard either. Some sort of rogue/monk combo with herbalism proficiency makes the most sense there. Or literally owning an Artificer's guild.
that'S because you keep doing RAW... it seems you can't undederstand what fluffling means. as an exemple... are spells really needing to be spells ? one could easily say that magic missile is really just a bunch of seeking missiles coming out of the mage armor which is appearing as an ironman suit. fluffing changes nothing of the mechanics but can make your stuff look like anything you want.
as for mages not able to do batmans martial prowess... you really need to make a fist wizard, which is very capable monks by themselves...
Well then you may as well just call Iron Man 'Green Lantern' since under that level of 'fluffing' there is not that much of a difference between them... If you blur the lines enough all things become easy.
that's exactly it... you guys are searching really far something that was meant to become easy to do. you are not in 3e anymore... in 5e everything is easier to do. and yes green lantern could easily just be another wizard as well. if you think about it, every singole super hero with powers would just be that, super heroes with powers. flash would easily just be a monk with tons of speed added. give him haste and make him a tabaxi and you get flash, there is not much difference from him and the rogue. 5e isn't made for power gaming like 3E where you need to crunch those numbers of feats to get what you wanted, you can have it as low as level 5 now.
the point is... many of you search really really far something that is literally in your face since the get go. you are even encouraged to make such fluff !
also just saying... those who say mages do not have martial arts... you haven't met my bug bear full on wizard. he literally deals more then the monk damage wise.
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maybe Ironman. I'd like to see which class you think he'd be and his race(human to me). Batman is interesting and dont get me wrong, I love DC, but I'd like to see Ironman overall!
This is a stupid argument. I'd really just like to see people make the builds rather than argue about something that doesn't exist.
its easy to make the builds actually... Its called a batman mage for wizards and scrolls makes them really intense about being prepared for everything. solving everything...
ironman, is easy to build, its either a wizard too, with fly being its flying ability and magic missile being his rockets, as well as mage armor being his ironman suit.
if you want more, then you go artificer battlesmith which is literally ironman !
all in all, this is an old, very very very old 3rd edition concepts that were easy to make back then. they are still easy to make in 5e, now.
Iron Man is only a wizard if you are going the item enchanting route and he has enough access to raw materials to basically enchant what he pleases. And even then it falls apart since brilliance does not shortcut the item creation times.
Seriously, I still get the feeling that people commenting on IM have never read a single IM comic.
And not sure how one manages Batman's martial arts prowess as a wizard either. Some sort of rogue/monk combo with herbalism proficiency makes the most sense there. Or literally owning an Artificer's guild.
that'S because you keep doing RAW... it seems you can't undederstand what fluffling means. as an exemple... are spells really needing to be spells ? one could easily say that magic missile is really just a bunch of seeking missiles coming out of the mage armor which is appearing as an ironman suit. fluffing changes nothing of the mechanics but can make your stuff look like anything you want.
as for mages not able to do batmans martial prowess... you really need to make a fist wizard, which is very capable monks by themselves...
Well then you may as well just call Iron Man 'Green Lantern' since under that level of 'fluffing' there is not that much of a difference between them... If you blur the lines enough all things become easy.
that's exactly it... you guys are searching really far something that was meant to become easy to do. you are not in 3e anymore... in 5e everything is easier to do. and yes green lantern could easily just be another wizard as well. if you think about it, every singole super hero with powers would just be that, super heroes with powers. flash would easily just be a monk with tons of speed added. give him haste and make him a tabaxi and you get flash, there is not much difference from him and the rogue. 5e isn't made for power gaming like 3E where you need to crunch those numbers of feats to get what you wanted, you can have it as low as level 5 now.
the point is... many of you search really really far something that is literally in your face since the get go. you are even encouraged to make such fluff !
also just saying... those who say mages do not have martial arts... you haven't met my bug bear full on wizard. he literally deals more then the monk damage wise.
Flash can run faster than light when he needs to (Or at least Barry Allen could).
If you give any character the powers of the Flash, or Green Lantern you are only technically playing 5e. You are playing a d20 based superhero game and calling it 5e.
If you are not really familiar with the characters or accept that you are just doing homages to the characters, sure, but that is not what the OP seems to be talking about.
ok let's stick to the OP then... the answeris clearly none of the two !!! because in dungeons and dragons, you are limited only by what "YOU" like, thus we're not the OP and thus cannot answer that question.
to me... both arefine with me... but batmanis easier for meto imagine because his technology can be simulated with magic... while ironman is more like a tech thing with finite amount of stuff. and thus i have a harder time managing that in my headconsidering that if i send magic missiles to simulate actual missiles, then i have to think where they come out of and how much can be crammed in there. but you do you. i think both can easily be done reguardless of the class you choose.
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goodness all this about carring cappacity =\
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Mood, edition confusion is a pain. I mean, two words; Surprise. Round.
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This thread got boring quick. Like I've been saying, if you need the build to have arbitrarily high strength, then just don't bother. Say it's impossible and step aside. If you don't need arbitrarily high strength to be satisfied, then lets see some creativity.
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and yet you fail to realise that event he ironman you praise so much is living in our world where our physics applies.
there is literally no amount of human ressources that actually exists that does even a fraction of what he does. he literally had to reinvent the atomics system to get there.
you say D&D is nowhere near what humans can do... but in reality if you count how fast 30 feet per 6 seconds is, you'll get that it is a pretty fast walking speed already. your D&D characters are not just regular human bodies, the system has taken what the human in our world is at peak and made that the regular time of your character. 20 strength is probably the peak of human body, anything beyond that requires extensive trainings that only dedicated athletes will ever get. like body builders who pass their entire lives training for the sake of muscles. those body builders don't have time for adventuring to begin with.
again... you say ironman can lift 100 tons easily...
so is any mages who takes the time to develop magical items capable of such feats. even better... instead of making you able to lift a 100 tons, they would literally make the thing weight only a fraction of a pound. my biggest issue with your saying is that you think in d&d that we can't create the stuff ironman needs to work... yet, we easily can. but now we have to balance things out of that one. sorry but ironman lifting even a planet is like sub par in a universe where galactus eats them.
reality is... doing ironman in dungeons and dragons, reguardless of the edition is the easy part.
Batman on the other hand...
you need to create a character that is as inteligent as a wizard, as skillful as a rogue, brutally massacre with punches, kicks, knees, elbows, headbutts !! and above all else... capable of creating technology, or magic items that are capable of rivaling the best of the best, including that ironman of yours ! from where i stand... your ironman is just a wizard, strong because of its magic, pretty god damn weak inside. batman... you'd need at least 3 different classes to make him good ! thats not mentionning you have at least 3 great stats maxed out.
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This is a stupid argument. I'd really just like to see people make the builds rather than argue about something that doesn't exist.
its easy to make the builds actually...
Its called a batman mage for wizards and scrolls makes them really intense about being prepared for everything. solving everything...
ironman, is easy to build, its either a wizard too, with fly being its flying ability and magic missile being his rockets, as well as mage armor being his ironman suit.
if you want more, then you go artificer battlesmith which is literally ironman !
all in all, this is an old, very very very old 3rd edition concepts that were easy to make back then.
they are still easy to make in 5e, now.
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For the sake of dnd-ifying it, I like the idea of Iron Man being part artificer and part warlock.
Artificer is quite obvious - makes cool, magical armour, giving him his defensive abilities.
You might be thinking "warlock? how is he a warlock?". Well, if you've watched the movies you'll notice he's always talking to his armour. And his armour talks back, as Jarvis. He's always telling Jarvis to do this and that, and Jarvis is always either saying yes or making a sarcastic remark about how he should pay attention to the power of his suit (IE, his spell slots).
So, Jarvis is Iron mans patron; a powerful entity who was cursed to always be bound into inanimate objects. Tony Stark the Artificer discovered him, and made a pact to forge for him a suit of armour to occupy and to take him on his travels, provided he give Tony powers. Thus Iron Man arrived in DnD, with eldritch blasts from his hands as an answer for everything!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
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omg are you necromaning my thread?
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Talesin Jaffe played a character he called "The Owlbear" which was a pretty obvious parody of batman that seemed really close to what he is (with some comedic twists).
I'm not sure if links are allowed so I won't post it, but it's in "The Adventures of the Darrington Brigade" one-shot that they did
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
hmm
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Don't forget to love each other!
I play characters at taverns.
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that'S because you keep doing RAW... it seems you can't undederstand what fluffling means.
as an exemple... are spells really needing to be spells ?
one could easily say that magic missile is really just a bunch of seeking missiles coming out of the mage armor which is appearing as an ironman suit.
fluffing changes nothing of the mechanics but can make your stuff look like anything you want.
as for mages not able to do batmans martial prowess...
you really need to make a fist wizard, which is very capable monks by themselves...
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Isn’t the Armorer Artifcer basically Iron Man?
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that's exactly it... you guys are searching really far something that was meant to become easy to do.
you are not in 3e anymore... in 5e everything is easier to do. and yes green lantern could easily just be another wizard as well.
if you think about it, every singole super hero with powers would just be that, super heroes with powers. flash would easily just be a monk with tons of speed added. give him haste and make him a tabaxi and you get flash, there is not much difference from him and the rogue. 5e isn't made for power gaming like 3E where you need to crunch those numbers of feats to get what you wanted, you can have it as low as level 5 now.
the point is... many of you search really really far something that is literally in your face since the get go. you are even encouraged to make such fluff !
also just saying... those who say mages do not have martial arts... you haven't met my bug bear full on wizard.
he literally deals more then the monk damage wise.
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maybe Ironman. I'd like to see which class you think he'd be and his race(human to me). Batman is interesting and dont get me wrong, I love DC, but I'd like to see Ironman overall!
A riptide sweeps over the land; you look, it's a fish. The fish snarls and says, "You thought I was a god? No! I am Magikarp!! Obviously."
ok let's stick to the OP then...
the answeris clearly none of the two !!!
because in dungeons and dragons, you are limited only by what "YOU" like, thus we're not the OP and thus cannot answer that question.
to me... both arefine with me... but batmanis easier for meto imagine because his technology can be simulated with magic... while ironman is more like a tech thing with finite amount of stuff. and thus i have a harder time managing that in my headconsidering that if i send magic missiles to simulate actual missiles, then i have to think where they come out of and how much can be crammed in there. but you do you. i think both can easily be done reguardless of the class you choose.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
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