As in, just a gutter or shallow trench, down the center of the street. A gutter filled with trash, debris, and ... more noisome things. Guardez l'Eau, indeed!
None of this indoor plumbing nonsense. No flushing toilets. Very few "sewers" you could actually walk around in (generally these weren't a thing in the medieval era; London's first sewer wasn't in place until 1866, for example). The streets positively stank, especially in summer. Which is the reason for the trope of nobles and other wealthy types walking about with a perfumed handkerchief held to their nose.
Well, part of it. The other part was, that generally people didn't bathe very often, and washed their expensive clothing even less often. People stank, too.
You or I would absolutely gag if we were to suddenly find ourselves walking down a street in a medieval city. A street in a somewhat nice part of town, even.
...
Or, you know, we could just go with the Hollywood-sanitized, "high cinematic" version of things as presented in the D&D rules. 5E is hardly a simulationist system, after all. You want to get really simulationist and "accurate", then maybe you should give other systems - GURPS, for example - a close look. :)
As in, just a gutter or shallow trench, down the center of the street. A gutter filled with trash, debris, and ... more noisome things. Guardez l'Eau, indeed!
None of this indoor plumbing nonsense. No flushing toilets. Very few "sewers" you could actually walk around in (generally these weren't a thing in the medieval era; London's first sewer wasn't in place until 1866, for example).
Yup.
One of the reasons I'm glad I am doing a Roman Empire campaign. I don't have to think about those things.
The Romans had sewers, fountains on every street corner (just about), indoor plumbing in the wealthier homes, hot, warm, and cold baths in the bath houses, and underground sewer systems in the major cities (though of course not in the small towns). They also had men's and ladies' rooms much like we have today. They did not have flushing toilets, but their toilets were much like ours -- they just had a hole in the bottom leading right down into the sewer (and thus, were almost always on the ground floor).
All of which means that my campaign world is a lot less smelly than most fantasy worlds. :)
Lets not forget that other then the nobles everyone else was basically poverty stricken and wouldn't have the luxury of adventuring.
Not to mention, even among the (brand new but growing) Middle class, gold coins would have been astonishingly rare. Silver was the basis of most medieval economies, because it was around in adequate abundance to mint coins in sufficient numbers to be useful, while also being worth JUST enough to make it practical to supplant direct barter with the indirect exchange that currency supports.
As in, just a gutter or shallow trench, down the center of the street. A gutter filled with trash, debris, and ... more noisome things. Guardez l'Eau, indeed!
None of this indoor plumbing nonsense. No flushing toilets. Very few "sewers" you could actually walk around in (generally these weren't a thing in the medieval era; London's first sewer wasn't in place until 1866, for example).
Yup.
One of the reasons I'm glad I am doing a Roman Empire campaign. I don't have to think about those things.
The Romans had sewers, fountains on every street corner (just about), indoor plumbing in the wealthier homes, hot, warm, and cold baths in the bath houses, and underground sewer systems in the major cities (though of course not in the small towns). They also had men's and ladies' rooms much like we have today. They did not have flushing toilets, but their toilets were much like ours -- they just had a hole in the bottom leading right down into the sewer (and thus, were almost always on the ground floor).
All of which means that my campaign world is a lot less smelly than most fantasy worlds. :)
Actually, Roman public toilets weren't segregated by sex until fairly late in the game. Same for the public baths. :) It's largely after Christianity took over, that sex-segregation happened on a grand scale. Also, they didn't have toilet paper. Sponge-on-a-stick, in a bucket. Shared by everyone to use that public toilet ... with the all too predictable results WRT the spread of disease. :)
Actually, Roman public toilets weren't segregated by sex until fairly late in the game. Same for the public baths. :) It's largely after Christianity took over, that sex-segregation happened on a grand scale.
I saw a documentary on Ostia that had two restrooms they believe were segregated (one for men, one for women) but I'm not sure when the Ostia dig dates to. Could be quite late.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
RAW may omit homebrew, but D&D says it's fine to do it. Just have your session 0 and figure out how you wish to set the stage. The lore and mechanics are a starting point. Where you take it from there is up to you.
That stated:
I like the idea of comparing real history with fantasy. It gives me ideas on homebrew. So, do! Keep it coming!
weeeeeelll. lets burn all spell casters cause of the Salem witch trials.
If you want realism, the historic method of executing witches was hanging, not burning.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
RAW may omit homebrew, but D&D says it's fine to do it. Just have your session 0 and figure out how you wish to set the stage. The lore and mechanics are a starting point. Where you take it from there is up to you.
That stated:
I like the idea of comparing real history with fantasy. It gives me ideas on homebrew. So, do! Keep it coming!
weeeeeelll. lets burn all spell casters cause of the Salem witch trials.
If you want realism, the historic method of executing witches was hanging, not burning.
If you were in America. In Europe, witches were burned.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
RAW may omit homebrew, but D&D says it's fine to do it. Just have your session 0 and figure out how you wish to set the stage. The lore and mechanics are a starting point. Where you take it from there is up to you.
That stated:
I like the idea of comparing real history with fantasy. It gives me ideas on homebrew. So, do! Keep it coming!
weeeeeelll. lets burn all spell casters cause of the Salem witch trials.
If you want realism, the historic method of executing witches was hanging, not burning.
If you were in America. In Europe, witches were burned.
I didn't know that witches lived in america in medieval times. ;)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
RAW may omit homebrew, but D&D says it's fine to do it. Just have your session 0 and figure out how you wish to set the stage. The lore and mechanics are a starting point. Where you take it from there is up to you.
That stated:
I like the idea of comparing real history with fantasy. It gives me ideas on homebrew. So, do! Keep it coming!
weeeeeelll. lets burn all spell casters cause of the Salem witch trials.
If you want realism, the historic method of executing witches was hanging, not burning.
If you were in America. In Europe, witches were burned.
Witches were hanged. Heretics were burned.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Aren't witches heretical by definition? (Also, I did some research and while burning at the stake was originally a punishment for heretics in Europe, some witches were burned as well. Source.)
Aren't witches heretical by definition? (Also, I did some research and while burning at the stake was originally a punishment for heretics in Europe, some witches were burned as well. Source.)
Depends on when and where. "Europe" is a big place with many different cultures. Few heretics and/or witches were burned alive (again, depending on the time and place).
As for Roman toilets, some of them actually had running water. You basically pooped down into a small gutter where water flowed through that would then go into a sewer.
All this talk about realism leading to the end of 99% of D&D is rather silly.
Of course D&D isn't real. It is a fantasy we can enjoy together.
But there is a degree of realism that can be built into the background to help the players feel their characters are experiencing the existence described in the core role books, you know, the several pictures of quaint medieval villages. So would it be too much to hear about the farmers and villagers that populate 95% of the land? Would it be a tragedy if the world-building reflected that in almost every community that had a blacksmith he would be making simple farm tools, lantern holders, hinges and stuff like that so he wouldn't have several sets of armor and battle axes laying about for sale?
I just think a little degree of realism would go a long way in many groups.
I don't pretend to know what every group wants to do, but I know for myself, an RP heavy player, having a society that made sense would be enjoyable.
If you ever played Lords of the Realm II, I imagine the background noise going on around me to be like that game. Farmers, woodsmen, stone cutters, carpenters and smiths just going about their lives every day, season after season. And then there is some rumor of goblins off to the east ...
Pretty much every game I've played in has had that level of realism- if you're in a small farming village you're not going to be finding suits of heavy armor or swords for sale. At all.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I still have trouble understanding players who think there is a magic item shop on every corner (or at least in every town, or that there are any such shops at all)....
There are three reasons for this. One, probably the biggest one, is that this is how a lot of video game RPGs work. Two, a lot of DMs run things that way, just for convenience... instead of having to make sure you give the party items that they will find useful (if you want to do that), and trying to figure out what your players would want, you just put in a shop where they can swap the items you gave them for ones they really want, kind of like exchanging Christmas gifts the day after. And three, a couple of streams allow this, and if they are getting D&D from the online streams, they will think it is "standard practice."
I certainly agree with you -- I don't have "magic shops" in anything but the largest cities. In my Roman Empire campaign, you can find them in Rome, yes (because, well, you can find anything in Rome -- it is a city of a half million people after all), and in the capitals of the former kingdoms Rome conquered (Alexandria for Egypt, Carthage for the Carthaginians). But even there, if it's not Rome, it's only going to be basic magic items, like +1 weapons or ammo, very basic potions, etc. And even in Rome, you're not going to find something major like a legendary weapon. (Or if it exists, it's going to be in possession of some powerful senator or the Emperor, not in a magic shop.)
But... lots of other DMs just put magic shops everywhere, and if they have a "high magic" world it would make sense. And again, a lot of video games do this and many players these days (unlike when I was growing up with "Pong" as the only video game anyone could play back then in the home) have had their main pre-D&D experience from video games.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
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it is a total "I walk through my enemy, and they are sliced in two" trope
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
Muskets also took 20-30 seconds to reload.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
You want medieval realism? Fine, two words:
Open. Sewers.
...
As in, just a gutter or shallow trench, down the center of the street. A gutter filled with trash, debris, and ... more noisome things. Guardez l'Eau, indeed!
None of this indoor plumbing nonsense. No flushing toilets. Very few "sewers" you could actually walk around in (generally these weren't a thing in the medieval era; London's first sewer wasn't in place until 1866, for example). The streets positively stank, especially in summer. Which is the reason for the trope of nobles and other wealthy types walking about with a perfumed handkerchief held to their nose.
Well, part of it. The other part was, that generally people didn't bathe very often, and washed their expensive clothing even less often. People stank, too.
You or I would absolutely gag if we were to suddenly find ourselves walking down a street in a medieval city. A street in a somewhat nice part of town, even.
...
Or, you know, we could just go with the Hollywood-sanitized, "high cinematic" version of things as presented in the D&D rules. 5E is hardly a simulationist system, after all. You want to get really simulationist and "accurate", then maybe you should give other systems - GURPS, for example - a close look. :)
Also, resting. You lie on the ground nearly bleeding out for half a minute, yet eight hours of sleep fixes it.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Well, while mostly true, hit points don't only represent physical health, and damage doesn't really represent only physical damage.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Yup.
One of the reasons I'm glad I am doing a Roman Empire campaign. I don't have to think about those things.
The Romans had sewers, fountains on every street corner (just about), indoor plumbing in the wealthier homes, hot, warm, and cold baths in the bath houses, and underground sewer systems in the major cities (though of course not in the small towns). They also had men's and ladies' rooms much like we have today. They did not have flushing toilets, but their toilets were much like ours -- they just had a hole in the bottom leading right down into the sewer (and thus, were almost always on the ground floor).
All of which means that my campaign world is a lot less smelly than most fantasy worlds. :)
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Lets not forget that other then the nobles everyone else was basically poverty stricken and wouldn't have the luxury of adventuring.
there's isn't much about D&D that lines up with what was reality. if you go down that path you have to throw out 99% of D&D...
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
Not to mention, even among the (brand new but growing) Middle class, gold coins would have been astonishingly rare. Silver was the basis of most medieval economies, because it was around in adequate abundance to mint coins in sufficient numbers to be useful, while also being worth JUST enough to make it practical to supplant direct barter with the indirect exchange that currency supports.
Actually, Roman public toilets weren't segregated by sex until fairly late in the game. Same for the public baths. :) It's largely after Christianity took over, that sex-segregation happened on a grand scale. Also, they didn't have toilet paper. Sponge-on-a-stick, in a bucket. Shared by everyone to use that public toilet ... with the all too predictable results WRT the spread of disease. :)
I saw a documentary on Ostia that had two restrooms they believe were segregated (one for men, one for women) but I'm not sure when the Ostia dig dates to. Could be quite late.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
If you want realism, the historic method of executing witches was hanging, not burning.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
If you were in America. In Europe, witches were burned.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
I didn't know that witches lived in america in medieval times. ;)
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Witches were hanged. Heretics were burned.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Aren't witches heretical by definition? (Also, I did some research and while burning at the stake was originally a punishment for heretics in Europe, some witches were burned as well. Source.)
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Depends on when and where. "Europe" is a big place with many different cultures. Few heretics and/or witches were burned alive (again, depending on the time and place).
As for Roman toilets, some of them actually had running water. You basically pooped down into a small gutter where water flowed through that would then go into a sewer.
All this talk about realism leading to the end of 99% of D&D is rather silly.
Of course D&D isn't real. It is a fantasy we can enjoy together.
But there is a degree of realism that can be built into the background to help the players feel their characters are experiencing the existence described in the core role books, you know, the several pictures of quaint medieval villages. So would it be too much to hear about the farmers and villagers that populate 95% of the land? Would it be a tragedy if the world-building reflected that in almost every community that had a blacksmith he would be making simple farm tools, lantern holders, hinges and stuff like that so he wouldn't have several sets of armor and battle axes laying about for sale?
I just think a little degree of realism would go a long way in many groups.
I don't pretend to know what every group wants to do, but I know for myself, an RP heavy player, having a society that made sense would be enjoyable.
If you ever played Lords of the Realm II, I imagine the background noise going on around me to be like that game. Farmers, woodsmen, stone cutters, carpenters and smiths just going about their lives every day, season after season. And then there is some rumor of goblins off to the east ...
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Pretty much every game I've played in has had that level of realism- if you're in a small farming village you're not going to be finding suits of heavy armor or swords for sale. At all.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
There are three reasons for this. One, probably the biggest one, is that this is how a lot of video game RPGs work. Two, a lot of DMs run things that way, just for convenience... instead of having to make sure you give the party items that they will find useful (if you want to do that), and trying to figure out what your players would want, you just put in a shop where they can swap the items you gave them for ones they really want, kind of like exchanging Christmas gifts the day after. And three, a couple of streams allow this, and if they are getting D&D from the online streams, they will think it is "standard practice."
I certainly agree with you -- I don't have "magic shops" in anything but the largest cities. In my Roman Empire campaign, you can find them in Rome, yes (because, well, you can find anything in Rome -- it is a city of a half million people after all), and in the capitals of the former kingdoms Rome conquered (Alexandria for Egypt, Carthage for the Carthaginians). But even there, if it's not Rome, it's only going to be basic magic items, like +1 weapons or ammo, very basic potions, etc. And even in Rome, you're not going to find something major like a legendary weapon. (Or if it exists, it's going to be in possession of some powerful senator or the Emperor, not in a magic shop.)
But... lots of other DMs just put magic shops everywhere, and if they have a "high magic" world it would make sense. And again, a lot of video games do this and many players these days (unlike when I was growing up with "Pong" as the only video game anyone could play back then in the home) have had their main pre-D&D experience from video games.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.