The Psi Die was apparently replaced with a Psionic Power Pool, which was a concept several of us had put some time and effort into refining ourselves after it was made known that The Playerbase had once again decided to complain away anything that smacked of new and engaging gameplay. There does not appear to be any way of restoring dice to the pool outside of long-resting, save for restoring one die once with a bonus action. Psychic powers and abilities do not grow over time - you never get better at using your psychic talents, you just get a higher potential number of uses per day.
It's not complete excrement, but it definitely seems like a downgrade over the original Talent Die. And "casty" psychic characters are still expected to be nothing but deliberately subpar shit-assed notwizards, so we're still stuck there.
The Psi Die was apparently replaced with a Psionic Power Pool, which was a concept several of us had put some time and effort into refining ourselves after it was made known that The Playerbase had once again decided to complain away anything that smacked of new and engaging gameplay. There does not appear to be any way of restoring dice to the pool outside of long-resting, save for restoring one die once with a bonus action. Psychic powers and abilities do not grow over time - you never get better at using your psychic talents, you just get a higher potential number of uses per day.
It's not complete excrement, but it definitely seems like a downgrade over the original Talent Die. And "casty" psychic characters are still expected to be nothing but deliberately subpar shit-assed notwizards, so we're still stuck there.
Well, Darn.
Bring me some ice cream, Yurei? I'm sad. :(
I'm all for original design but the psi die were terrible design.
They produced potentially large variance in use, punished rolling high with little to no benefit to outweigh the punishment, didn't fit the theme of being a master of your own mind, and we're generally too clunky.
I'm glad they died as a core concept for psionics. I think they would make an ok mechanic for a wild magic martial if you did a surge on the maximum die roll. At least then they would fit the theme.
The Psi Die was apparently replaced with a Psionic Power Pool, which was a concept several of us had put some time and effort into refining ourselves after it was made known that The Playerbase had once again decided to complain away anything that smacked of new and engaging gameplay. There does not appear to be any way of restoring dice to the pool outside of long-resting, save for restoring one die once with a bonus action. Psychic powers and abilities do not grow over time - you never get better at using your psychic talents, you just get a higher potential number of uses per day.
It's not complete excrement, but it definitely seems like a downgrade over the original Talent Die. And "casty" psychic characters are still expected to be nothing but deliberately subpar shit-assed notwizards, so we're still stuck there.
Well, Darn.
Bring me some ice cream, Yurei? I'm sad. :(
I'm all for original design but the psi die were terrible design.
They produced potentially large variance in use, punished rolling high with little to no benefit to outweigh the punishment, didn't fit the theme of being a master of your own mind, and we're generally too clunky.
I'm glad they died as a core concept for psionics. I think they would make an ok mechanic for a wild magic martial if you did a surge on the maximum die roll. At least then they would fit the theme.
Agree completely. The mechanic might be neat for something else, but random fluctuations in power don't match up someone who is a mental master.
The ebb and flow of psychic potential and power served as a mechanical differentiator for psychic abilities, one of the vanishingly few ways in which they were something other than Strictly Worse Spellcasting. It's not the differentiator I would have chosen - traditional magic should be the more unstable force, while properly honed psychic abilities should be as reliable as the motions of one's own body - but there's a case to be made for either discipline leaning more 'wild' than the other.
Nevertheless, at least it was a differentiator, and built in such a way as to allow the DM to pull some levers and design around it in ways that made psychic abilities feel different than simply Strictly Worse Spellcasting. The pool system may allow for similar vairability, but we'll need to see the official text for it first. In either case, psychic characters are never allowed to get stronger the way spellcasters are - they're always and forever limited to 1d6 for their abilities, whilst spellcasters gain ever spiraling increases in power. Nor do psychic characters gain the ability to use their powers at will to compensate for this. Psychic characters have less power, their power never grows, they have far fewer ways to use that power, and what ways they do have to use that power are typically represented as weakened versions of regular-ass spells.
Anyone who believes that any design for which this is true is 'better' than the Psi Die as presented is incorrect. Simply incorrect. The Psi Die was not a perfect mechanic by any means, but at least it permitted a player to avoid feeling actively punished by their class or subclass choices.
The ebb and flow of psychic potential and power served as a mechanical differentiator for psychic abilities, one of the vanishingly few ways in which they were something other than Strictly Worse Spellcasting. It's not the differentiator I would have chosen - traditional magic should be the more unstable force, while properly honed psychic abilities should be as reliable as the motions of one's own body - but there's a case to be made for either discipline leaning more 'wild' than the other.
Nevertheless, at least it was a differentiator, and built in such a way as to allow the DM to pull some levers and design around it in ways that made psychic abilities feel different than simply Strictly Worse Spellcasting. The pool system may allow for similar vairability, but we'll need to see the official text for it first. In either case, psychic characters are never allowed to get stronger the way spellcasters are - they're always and forever limited to 1d6 for their abilities, whilst spellcasters gain ever spiraling increases in power. Nor do psychic characters gain the ability to use their powers at will to compensate for this. Psychic characters have less power, their power never grows, they have far fewer ways to use that power, and what ways they do have to use that power are typically represented as weakened versions of regular-ass spells.
Anyone who believes that any design for which this is true is 'better' than the Psi Die as presented is incorrect. Simply incorrect. The Psi Die was not a perfect mechanic by any means, but at least it permitted a player to avoid feeling actively punished by their class or subclass choices.
Oh I agree with this not being better...its serviceable at best.
I hope they go back to the drawing board for Psionics and listen to community feedback for a full on class. I think psi points is a better option myself since it allows for precise control of abilities.
I am kind of hoping they go warlock invocation style and have always on abilities that are empowered with points.
The psi die fit more erratic psychics- like Eleven from Stranger Things. I enjoyed the mechanics for it, but it didn't really fit the honed mental discipline of some psychics.
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A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
The psi die fit more erratic psychics- like Eleven from Stranger Things. I enjoyed the mechanics for it, but it didn't really fit the honed mental discipline of some psychics.
yeah even if it was a Wild Psionic subclass it would fit the theme better. I think it can live on in the right theme for sure just not with these.
If one desires psychic abilities, or for psychic characters to be fun and satisfying to play, one had best hope that Wizards about-faces on their usual policies and disregards community feedback completely. The Playerbase has made it agonizingly clear that the only way it will tolerate psychic powers being implemented is as a weaker, more limited, and less useful form of spellcasting. Many previous discussions have made it plain that 'The Majority' - alleged as it may be - does not want any sort of new mechanical framework for psychic abilities. They desire it to simply be "Spellcasting, but without any of the good parts of spellcasting".
This feedback is actively horrible and no game designer worth the title should give it any credence, but we are unfortunately living in the reality where the company responsible for development of this game has abdicated its responsibilities for doing so and instead invites the entire Internet to design the game by billion-mouths-zero-brains committee. Ergo, we are all ****ed. It's immensely frustrating, as constantly having one of my favorite character archetypes dangled in front of my face only to be jerked away again and again and again just...well. It's immensely frustrating. I would honestly rather Wizards simply not implement psychic power systems at all than continue to wheedle and tease and half-promise these ideas only to steal them away again because the hordes of slobbering grognards that aren't going to buy the book in the first place left scathing feedback on a survey somewhere despite having no idea how game design works.
If one desires psychic abilities, or for psychic characters to be fun and satisfying to play, one had best hope that Wizards about-faces on their usual policies and disregards community feedback completely. The Playerbase has made it agonizingly clear that the only way it will tolerate psychic powers being implemented is as a weaker, more limited, and less useful form of spellcasting. Many previous discussions have made it plain that 'The Majority' - alleged as it may be - does not want any sort of new mechanical framework for psychic abilities. They desire it to simply be "Spellcasting, but without any of the good parts of spellcasting".
This feedback is actively horrible and no game designer worth the title should give it any credence, but we are unfortunately living in the reality where the company responsible for development of this game has abdicated its responsibilities for doing so and instead invites the entire Internet to design the game by billion-mouths-zero-brains committee. Ergo, we are all ****ed. It's immensely frustrating, as constantly having one of my favorite character archetypes dangled in front of my face only to be jerked away again and again and again just...well. It's immensely frustrating. I would honestly rather Wizards simply not implement psychic power systems at all than continue to wheedle and tease and half-promise these ideas only to steal them away again because the hordes of slobbering grognards that aren't going to buy the book in the first place left scathing feedback on a survey somewhere despite having no idea how game design works.
Yeah I mostly want them to listen to the "We want a full on class nerds" and not the "But with weak ass spellcasting" part lol
Okay, so Sorcerers get to have two of the better metamagic options from the UA. Sure, there was a name change for them. They still have an option to swap damage types on spells, and a spell attack reroll without a feat needed. If the bonus spell lists for the new sorcerous origins are like the choice for a Divine Soul, then it’s a single choice and thus not an issue. If those lists are instead like a Cleric or Paladin’s bonus spells, then they really should have added rules to retroactively give earlier origins some bonus spells known.
Armored Artificer seems to be definitively nerfed on both armor modes at their core. Defensive Field probably needed the nerf just because infinite temporary HP gain can be nuts. The Second Skin change was a deliberate nerf to prevent the Armorer from ever benefiting from a Trickery Cleric’s base feature, because the rules cannot allow two instances of advantage to apply to a roll. Battle Smith seems to get a buff due to the new wording, which gives more strategy to the specialization. New cantrips and the buff to the UA armor infusion seems good, as does the effective multi-tool for the class.
Unity/Peace domain seems kinda junk, though that seems to be bad wording. I have never heard of a Channel Divinity that lost functionality the more it’s used during a day before, so I hope that’s one of many typos on that one. Twilight Domain seems to have had reasonable changes for the most part. Moonbeam makes sense for the spell list, and the Darkvision changes were absolutely necessary. Channel Divinity option for all Clerics/Paladins got a nice buff to go with a strange nerf, so still usable.
Barbarians got just a universal buff from the looks of it. Good for them. Path of the Beast made sensible changes, including a surprise buff to the tail mode. I’m fairly pleased with this one overall.
There is still one bit of UA content from the CFV packet that we don’t know the status on: the expanded spell lists. I think it fair to say that a lot of us were pleasantly surprised with those lists, especially for Sorcerers, Bards, and Druids. I dare say it might have received the most positive feedback from that UA, next to the Ranger stuff. We know of a couple notable spells for the Bard, but we don’t have a clue on a lot of those spell lists as a whole.
If these leaks are in any way true, they have a massive impact on the game. And I am not even talking about the ridiculous changes to char creation. I was going to avoid the entire book, but now it appears I will have to absorb it, and then dismiss the most egregious stuff.
If one desires psychic abilities, or for psychic characters to be fun and satisfying to play, one had best hope that Wizards about-faces on their usual policies and disregards community feedback completely.
That's really a request for "pay attention to my feedback, but not his", because the response to "no feedback" is "clearly no-one wants this thing, so let's toss it". The main problem with implementing psis as a sorcerer subtype is that sorcerers are bad, and that doesn't have anything to do with psi per se.
If one desires psychic abilities, or for psychic characters to be fun and satisfying to play, one had best hope that Wizards about-faces on their usual policies and disregards community feedback completely.
That's really a request for "pay attention to my feedback, but not his", because the response to "no feedback" is "clearly no-one wants this thing, so let's toss it". The main problem with implementing psis as a sorcerer subtype is that sorcerers are bad, and that doesn't have anything to do with psi per se.
Psionics has always left a bad taste in the mouth of the majority of players, and even a larger percentage of DM's who have had to deal with any psi-based chars. It is far far better for WOTC to simply kill off the entire concept.
If one desires psychic abilities, or for psychic characters to be fun and satisfying to play, one had best hope that Wizards about-faces on their usual policies and disregards community feedback completely.
That's really a request for "pay attention to my feedback, but not his", because the response to "no feedback" is "clearly no-one wants this thing, so let's toss it". The main problem with implementing psis as a sorcerer subtype is that sorcerers are bad, and that doesn't have anything to do with psi per se.
Psionics has always left a bad taste in the mouth of the majority of players, and even a larger percentage of DM's who have had to deal with any psi-based chars. It is far far better for WOTC to simply kill off the entire concept.
Psionics were notoriously broken in 1e/2e, which probably accounts for the bad taste.
Does anyone get the impression that Wizards just hasn't told their digital partners that Tasha's is going to be book-exclusive or be on some sort of delayed digital release?
If one desires psychic abilities, or for psychic characters to be fun and satisfying to play, one had best hope that Wizards about-faces on their usual policies and disregards community feedback completely.
That's really a request for "pay attention to my feedback, but not his", because the response to "no feedback" is "clearly no-one wants this thing, so let's toss it". The main problem with implementing psis as a sorcerer subtype is that sorcerers are bad, and that doesn't have anything to do with psi per se.
Psionics has always left a bad taste in the mouth of the majority of players, and even a larger percentage of DM's who have had to deal with any psi-based chars. It is far far better for WOTC to simply kill off the entire concept.
Psionics were notoriously broken in 1e/2e, which probably accounts for the bad taste.
I can certainly attest to what a mess they were in 2e. WOTC has enough stuff on its plate to deal with, long before they start messing with this grenade again.
I can certainly attest to what a mess they were in 2e. WOTC has enough stuff on its plate to deal with, long before they start messing with this grenade again.
3e psionics weren't terrible as far as I can tell, but basically amounted to "sorcerer, but uses spell points instead of spell slots, and metamagic is unique per spell".
Okay, so Sorcerers get to have two of the better metamagic options from the UA. Sure, there was a name change for them. They still have an option to swap damage types on spells, and a spell attack reroll without a feat needed. If the bonus spell lists for the new sorcerous origins are like the choice for a Divine Soul, then it’s a single choice and thus not an issue. If those lists are instead like a Cleric or Paladin’s bonus spells, then they really should have added rules to retroactively give earlier origins some bonus spells known.
Armored Artificer seems to be definitively nerfed on both armor modes at their core. Defensive Field probably needed the nerf just because infinite temporary HP gain can be nuts. The Second Skin change was a deliberate nerf to prevent the Armorer from ever benefiting from a Trickery Cleric’s base feature, because the rules cannot allow two instances of advantage to apply to a roll. Battle Smith seems to get a buff due to the new wording, which gives more strategy to the specialization. New cantrips and the buff to the UA armor infusion seems good, as does the effective multi-tool for the class.
Unity/Peace domain seems kinda junk, though that seems to be bad wording. I have never heard of a Channel Divinity that lost functionality the more it’s used during a day before, so I hope that’s one of many typos on that one. Twilight Domain seems to have had reasonable changes for the most part. Moonbeam makes sense for the spell list, and the Darkvision changes were absolutely necessary. Channel Divinity option for all Clerics/Paladins got a nice buff to go with a strange nerf, so still usable.
Barbarians got just a universal buff from the looks of it. Good for them. Path of the Beast made sensible changes, including a surprise buff to the tail mode. I’m fairly pleased with this one overall.
There is still one bit of UA content from the CFV packet that we don’t know the status on: the expanded spell lists. I think it fair to say that a lot of us were pleasantly surprised with those lists, especially for Sorcerers, Bards, and Druids. I dare say it might have received the most positive feedback from that UA, next to the Ranger stuff. We know of a couple notable spells for the Bard, but we don’t have a clue on a lot of those spell lists as a whole.
New sorcerer subclasses get about 9-11 spells. Old sublasses? Probably nothing or we need to wait a year for new errata.
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They have dice but it's no where near the same as it was before. It's just a certain number equal to proficiency bonus.
The Psi Die was apparently replaced with a Psionic Power Pool, which was a concept several of us had put some time and effort into refining ourselves after it was made known that The Playerbase had once again decided to complain away anything that smacked of new and engaging gameplay. There does not appear to be any way of restoring dice to the pool outside of long-resting, save for restoring one die once with a bonus action. Psychic powers and abilities do not grow over time - you never get better at using your psychic talents, you just get a higher potential number of uses per day.
It's not complete excrement, but it definitely seems like a downgrade over the original Talent Die. And "casty" psychic characters are still expected to be nothing but deliberately subpar shit-assed notwizards, so we're still stuck there.
Please do not contact or message me.
I'm all for original design but the psi die were terrible design.
They produced potentially large variance in use, punished rolling high with little to no benefit to outweigh the punishment, didn't fit the theme of being a master of your own mind, and we're generally too clunky.
I'm glad they died as a core concept for psionics. I think they would make an ok mechanic for a wild magic martial if you did a surge on the maximum die roll. At least then they would fit the theme.
Agree completely. The mechanic might be neat for something else, but random fluctuations in power don't match up someone who is a mental master.
The ebb and flow of psychic potential and power served as a mechanical differentiator for psychic abilities, one of the vanishingly few ways in which they were something other than Strictly Worse Spellcasting. It's not the differentiator I would have chosen - traditional magic should be the more unstable force, while properly honed psychic abilities should be as reliable as the motions of one's own body - but there's a case to be made for either discipline leaning more 'wild' than the other.
Nevertheless, at least it was a differentiator, and built in such a way as to allow the DM to pull some levers and design around it in ways that made psychic abilities feel different than simply Strictly Worse Spellcasting. The pool system may allow for similar vairability, but we'll need to see the official text for it first. In either case, psychic characters are never allowed to get stronger the way spellcasters are - they're always and forever limited to 1d6 for their abilities, whilst spellcasters gain ever spiraling increases in power. Nor do psychic characters gain the ability to use their powers at will to compensate for this. Psychic characters have less power, their power never grows, they have far fewer ways to use that power, and what ways they do have to use that power are typically represented as weakened versions of regular-ass spells.
Anyone who believes that any design for which this is true is 'better' than the Psi Die as presented is incorrect. Simply incorrect. The Psi Die was not a perfect mechanic by any means, but at least it permitted a player to avoid feeling actively punished by their class or subclass choices.
Please do not contact or message me.
Oh I agree with this not being better...its serviceable at best.
I hope they go back to the drawing board for Psionics and listen to community feedback for a full on class. I think psi points is a better option myself since it allows for precise control of abilities.
I am kind of hoping they go warlock invocation style and have always on abilities that are empowered with points.
The psi die fit more erratic psychics- like Eleven from Stranger Things. I enjoyed the mechanics for it, but it didn't really fit the honed mental discipline of some psychics.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
yeah even if it was a Wild Psionic subclass it would fit the theme better. I think it can live on in the right theme for sure just not with these.
If one desires psychic abilities, or for psychic characters to be fun and satisfying to play, one had best hope that Wizards about-faces on their usual policies and disregards community feedback completely. The Playerbase has made it agonizingly clear that the only way it will tolerate psychic powers being implemented is as a weaker, more limited, and less useful form of spellcasting. Many previous discussions have made it plain that 'The Majority' - alleged as it may be - does not want any sort of new mechanical framework for psychic abilities. They desire it to simply be "Spellcasting, but without any of the good parts of spellcasting".
This feedback is actively horrible and no game designer worth the title should give it any credence, but we are unfortunately living in the reality where the company responsible for development of this game has abdicated its responsibilities for doing so and instead invites the entire Internet to design the game by billion-mouths-zero-brains committee. Ergo, we are all ****ed. It's immensely frustrating, as constantly having one of my favorite character archetypes dangled in front of my face only to be jerked away again and again and again just...well. It's immensely frustrating. I would honestly rather Wizards simply not implement psychic power systems at all than continue to wheedle and tease and half-promise these ideas only to steal them away again because the hordes of slobbering grognards that aren't going to buy the book in the first place left scathing feedback on a survey somewhere despite having no idea how game design works.
Please do not contact or message me.
Yeah I mostly want them to listen to the "We want a full on class nerds" and not the "But with weak ass spellcasting" part lol
Okay, so Sorcerers get to have two of the better metamagic options from the UA. Sure, there was a name change for them. They still have an option to swap damage types on spells, and a spell attack reroll without a feat needed. If the bonus spell lists for the new sorcerous origins are like the choice for a Divine Soul, then it’s a single choice and thus not an issue. If those lists are instead like a Cleric or Paladin’s bonus spells, then they really should have added rules to retroactively give earlier origins some bonus spells known.
Armored Artificer seems to be definitively nerfed on both armor modes at their core. Defensive Field probably needed the nerf just because infinite temporary HP gain can be nuts. The Second Skin change was a deliberate nerf to prevent the Armorer from ever benefiting from a Trickery Cleric’s base feature, because the rules cannot allow two instances of advantage to apply to a roll. Battle Smith seems to get a buff due to the new wording, which gives more strategy to the specialization. New cantrips and the buff to the UA armor infusion seems good, as does the effective multi-tool for the class.
Unity/Peace domain seems kinda junk, though that seems to be bad wording. I have never heard of a Channel Divinity that lost functionality the more it’s used during a day before, so I hope that’s one of many typos on that one. Twilight Domain seems to have had reasonable changes for the most part. Moonbeam makes sense for the spell list, and the Darkvision changes were absolutely necessary. Channel Divinity option for all Clerics/Paladins got a nice buff to go with a strange nerf, so still usable.
Barbarians got just a universal buff from the looks of it. Good for them. Path of the Beast made sensible changes, including a surprise buff to the tail mode. I’m fairly pleased with this one overall.
There is still one bit of UA content from the CFV packet that we don’t know the status on: the expanded spell lists. I think it fair to say that a lot of us were pleasantly surprised with those lists, especially for Sorcerers, Bards, and Druids. I dare say it might have received the most positive feedback from that UA, next to the Ranger stuff. We know of a couple notable spells for the Bard, but we don’t have a clue on a lot of those spell lists as a whole.
Might as well call Tasha's 5.5e.
If these leaks are in any way true, they have a massive impact on the game. And I am not even talking about the ridiculous changes to char creation. I was going to avoid the entire book, but now it appears I will have to absorb it, and then dismiss the most egregious stuff.
That's really a request for "pay attention to my feedback, but not his", because the response to "no feedback" is "clearly no-one wants this thing, so let's toss it". The main problem with implementing psis as a sorcerer subtype is that sorcerers are bad, and that doesn't have anything to do with psi per se.
If the leaks are accurate, I have to say I am measurably less excited about the book than I was prior to reading them.
Psionics has always left a bad taste in the mouth of the majority of players, and even a larger percentage of DM's who have had to deal with any psi-based chars. It is far far better for WOTC to simply kill off the entire concept.
Psionics were notoriously broken in 1e/2e, which probably accounts for the bad taste.
Does anyone get the impression that Wizards just hasn't told their digital partners that Tasha's is going to be book-exclusive or be on some sort of delayed digital release?
I can certainly attest to what a mess they were in 2e. WOTC has enough stuff on its plate to deal with, long before they start messing with this grenade again.
3e psionics weren't terrible as far as I can tell, but basically amounted to "sorcerer, but uses spell points instead of spell slots, and metamagic is unique per spell".
New sorcerer subclasses get about 9-11 spells. Old sublasses? Probably nothing or we need to wait a year for new errata.