It would be cool to have an Antipaladin class. This would basically be my fix for the Oathbreaker paladin, which is way too restrictive IMO. Why do all paladins that break their oath suddenly gain an affinity for controlling/creating undead? It just doesn't make sense to me.
What I would do is make the base Antipaladin class have pretty much the same amount of features as the Paladin, but reversed. (For example; Divine Smite would be replaced with Unholy Smite, and it would do necrotic damage instead of radiant damage and deal an extra 1d8 damage to celestials and fey instead of to fiends and undead. Lay on Hands could be replaced with a feature similar to Inflict Wounds. Divine Health could be replaced with a feature that makes you immune to poison.)
Then, there would be subclasses that were the opposite of all of the paladin subclasses, which is what a paladin of that original oath would become if they broke their oath. The Oath of Devotion's opposite subclass would focus on breaking down the protections of others, restraining them with spells like hold person and hold monster, and channeling dark energy. The opposite of the Oath of the Watchers would focus on allowing extraplanar creatures get into the world, help hide them, and summon fiends/aberrations/shadowspawn. The opposite of the Oath of the Ancients would focus on destroying nature through spells like inflict wounds, blight, and animate dead.
Any thoughts?
I love it! What would be the opposite of oath of conquest?
I haven't decided yet. It would probably either keep people from getting frightened and try to create chaos to overthrow governments (an Anarchy Knight or something). Alternatively, it could charm people and convince others to follow it through charming instead of frightening.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Conquest paladin is basically already an anti-paladin class, just needs a bit of tweaking with the healing/smite damage type. Conquest is the "virtue" of Lawful Evil types.
Conquest paladin is basically already an anti-paladin class, just needs a bit of tweaking with the healing/smite damage type. Conquest is the "virtue" of Lawful Evil types.
Not at all. The Conquest paladin merely believes that the strongest people should rule. That doesn't make them evil. You can easily play a lawful good Conquest paladin that uses their magical powers to frighten evil dictators and overthrow corrupt oligarchs.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Conquest paladin is basically already an anti-paladin class, just needs a bit of tweaking with the healing/smite damage type. Conquest is the "virtue" of Lawful Evil types.
Not at all. The Conquest paladin merely believes that the strongest people should rule. That doesn't make them evil. You can easily play a lawful good Conquest paladin that uses their magical powers to frighten evil dictators and overthrow corrupt oligarchs.
I feel like with any supposed "evil" oath there will be ways to justify it and make it good. Good oathbreakers seem fairly common on the forums.
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A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
Yeah a wow style death knight/evil paladin seems redundant as a class next to the paladin, but the oathbreaker really doesn't satisfy the feel.
You're still tied to all the paladin features like lay on hands, divine smite being radiant damage, and other abilities which are just themed wrong. Ultimately the base paladin class is themed around being 'good' (hell it's only since 5e where being good isn't a class requirement), and 5e's class system is poorly equipped to provide a paladin subclass which deviates significantly from this.
Yeah a wow style death knight/evil paladin seems redundant as a class next to the paladin, but the oathbreaker really doesn't satisfy the feel.
You're still tied to all the paladin features like lay on hands, divine smite being radiant damage, and other abilities which are just themed wrong. Ultimately the base paladin class is themed around being 'good' (hell it's only since 5e where being good isn't a class requirement), and 5e's class system is poorly equipped to provide a paladin subclass which deviates significantly from this.
To be fair if we delve into the realm of homebrew, making the paladin "evil" isn't that hard. Just switching a couple creature and damage types works pretty well.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
Conquest paladin is basically already an anti-paladin class, just needs a bit of tweaking with the healing/smite damage type. Conquest is the "virtue" of Lawful Evil types.
Not at all. The Conquest paladin merely believes that the strongest people should rule. That doesn't make them evil.
Each of the three Evil alignments has a "virtue" associated with them. This has come up in several editions, especially with alternative paladins. Chaotic Evil is fury / slaughter. Neutral Evil is greed. And Lawful Evil is... domination and tyranny. What is rule by strength again? Domination and tyranny. Its really right there in the Oath. "Douse the Flame of Hope. Rule with an Iron Fist. Strength Above All." Those aren't Goodly, or even Neutral, qualities. Its "might makes right."
Bane, of Forgotten Realms lore, is a god of conquest. He's also Lawful Evil. In Dragonlance, the gods of conquests are, again, Evil. Every other god of conquest that I'm familiar with are some flavor of Evil alignment. In 5e Volo book, the Lawful Evil goblinoids and their gods are defined as the Conquering Horde.
Sorry, but "conquest" is, in D&D lore, historically an Evil-aligned trait.
Now, that's not to say that a PC Conquest Paladin has to be evil. I've given several suggestions on how to do so in the past. But that's like playing a non-evil necromancer - using the tools of evil for a less-than-evil end.
I like indestructoboy's Merchant class. It looks cool.
Maybe something that is specifically based around transforming yourself? Like, you can transform into animals, other people, grow/shrink in size, change just one part of your body into a tool, etc.
Something based on gathering resources. Like a miner and you use it to make specific things? idk.
someone in a discord i'm in is making an oracle class, which I'm really interested in.
Conquest paladin is basically already an anti-paladin class, just needs a bit of tweaking with the healing/smite damage type. Conquest is the "virtue" of Lawful Evil types.
Not at all. The Conquest paladin merely believes that the strongest people should rule. That doesn't make them evil.
Each of the three Evil alignments has a "virtue" associated with them. This has come up in several editions, especially with alternative paladins. Chaotic Evil is fury / slaughter. Neutral Evil is greed. And Lawful Evil is... domination and tyranny. What is rule by strength again? Domination and tyranny. Its really right there in the Oath. "Douse the Flame of Hope. Rule with an Iron Fist. Strength Above All." Those aren't Goodly, or even Neutral, qualities. Its "might makes right."
Bane, of Forgotten Realms lore, is a god of conquest. He's also Lawful Evil. In Dragonlance, the gods of conquests are, again, Evil. Every other god of conquest that I'm familiar with are some flavor of Evil alignment. In 5e Volo book, the Lawful Evil goblinoids and their gods are defined as the Conquering Horde.
Sorry, but "conquest" is, in D&D lore, historically an Evil-aligned trait.
Now, that's not to say that a PC Conquest Paladin has to be evil. I've given several suggestions on how to do so in the past. But that's like playing a non-evil necromancer - using the tools of evil for a less-than-evil end.
I also have to mention rule by strength is also what democracy is,just with another definition of strong.
I also have to mention rule by strength is also what democracy is,just with another definition of strong.
That....is very much just straight up incorrect.
Your right, This only applies to a subset of democracy (democracy democracy is democracy).The one commonly referred to as republic but that also has another definition as a type of democracy that has nothing to do with it.Goverment types are weird.
Basically in this type of democracy (basically the only kind that exists now a days) is election.Which is the strong rule by strong means popular instead of litterally the capability of your armies.
I haven't decided yet. It would probably either keep people from getting frightened and try to create chaos to overthrow governments (an Anarchy Knight or something). Alternatively, it could charm people and convince others to follow it through charming instead of frightening.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Conquest paladin is basically already an anti-paladin class, just needs a bit of tweaking with the healing/smite damage type. Conquest is the "virtue" of Lawful Evil types.
Not at all. The Conquest paladin merely believes that the strongest people should rule. That doesn't make them evil. You can easily play a lawful good Conquest paladin that uses their magical powers to frighten evil dictators and overthrow corrupt oligarchs.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I feel like with any supposed "evil" oath there will be ways to justify it and make it good. Good oathbreakers seem fairly common on the forums.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Yeah a wow style death knight/evil paladin seems redundant as a class next to the paladin, but the oathbreaker really doesn't satisfy the feel.
You're still tied to all the paladin features like lay on hands, divine smite being radiant damage, and other abilities which are just themed wrong. Ultimately the base paladin class is themed around being 'good' (hell it's only since 5e where being good isn't a class requirement), and 5e's class system is poorly equipped to provide a paladin subclass which deviates significantly from this.
To be fair if we delve into the realm of homebrew, making the paladin "evil" isn't that hard. Just switching a couple creature and damage types works pretty well.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Each of the three Evil alignments has a "virtue" associated with them. This has come up in several editions, especially with alternative paladins. Chaotic Evil is fury / slaughter. Neutral Evil is greed. And Lawful Evil is... domination and tyranny. What is rule by strength again? Domination and tyranny. Its really right there in the Oath. "Douse the Flame of Hope. Rule with an Iron Fist. Strength Above All." Those aren't Goodly, or even Neutral, qualities. Its "might makes right."
Bane, of Forgotten Realms lore, is a god of conquest. He's also Lawful Evil. In Dragonlance, the gods of conquests are, again, Evil. Every other god of conquest that I'm familiar with are some flavor of Evil alignment. In 5e Volo book, the Lawful Evil goblinoids and their gods are defined as the Conquering Horde.
Sorry, but "conquest" is, in D&D lore, historically an Evil-aligned trait.
Now, that's not to say that a PC Conquest Paladin has to be evil. I've given several suggestions on how to do so in the past. But that's like playing a non-evil necromancer - using the tools of evil for a less-than-evil end.
I like indestructoboy's Merchant class. It looks cool.
Maybe something that is specifically based around transforming yourself? Like, you can transform into animals, other people, grow/shrink in size, change just one part of your body into a tool, etc.
Something based on gathering resources. Like a miner and you use it to make specific things? idk.
someone in a discord i'm in is making an oracle class, which I'm really interested in.
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
where is that forum, because i am a homebrewer for dnd 5e and i am trying to make a whole new sorcebook
Haben Iuram, the player of Carnage, the aberrational tiefling necromancer.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/homebrew-house-rules
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
if there was an anti paladin class what would it be called, something like Death knight or Blackguard
(adding that to the homebrew)
Haben Iuram, the player of Carnage, the aberrational tiefling necromancer.
like a mimic class,
Haben Iuram, the player of Carnage, the aberrational tiefling necromancer.
There's Matt Colville's the Illrigger
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
I really want a Jedi class but I don't think that will happen
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I also have to mention rule by strength is also what democracy is,just with another definition of strong.
Check out my homebrew subclasses spells magic items feats monsters races
i am a sauce priest
help create a world here
That....is very much just straight up incorrect.
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
Your right, This only applies to a subset of democracy (democracy democracy is democracy).The one commonly referred to as republic but that also has another definition as a type of democracy that has nothing to do with it.Goverment types are weird.
Basically in this type of democracy (basically the only kind that exists now a days) is election.Which is the strong rule by strong means popular instead of litterally the capability of your armies.
Check out my homebrew subclasses spells magic items feats monsters races
i am a sauce priest
help create a world here
Or better yet, check out FFG’s Star Wars roleplaying game. Absolutely brilliant RPG.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
thank you
Haben Iuram, the player of Carnage, the aberrational tiefling necromancer.