personally I like to write a friend or rival into my character's back story. It adds some nice RP hooks
You can do that, but it isn't necessary. You can also do it as part of the 3 elements I mentioned. "I came here to get away from my rival." Or "I came here in search of my friend." Or, "I am motivated to adventure because my rival adventures and I want to out-earn him in GP and magic items." etc.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I agree about backstories. Overly detailed backstories with too much information in them can be an impediment to game play rather than a boon.
A backstory of a role-playing game character needs to explain three things: Starting abilities, presence in the starting area, and motivation.
Starting abilities: the background explain why the character is in the chosen class, or how the character learned the starting abilities in that class (why did you become a druid? How did you learn the sneaky skills of a rogue? etc).
Presence in the starting area: The background should explain how the character got to the starting location (unless the DM provides that in some other way).
Motivation: Why the character is an adventurer -- why does the character choose this life of going out into the dangerous world exploring dungeons? Or in a city/intrigue campaign, why has the character gotten involved with the local politics?
You can explain all of those things in a paragraph or two. More than that is not necessary.
I'll make one other point... Someone on the internet (whom I shall not name because I know he is a lightning rod, and no it was not Colville) said "the most important thing that happened to your character shouldn't be in the backstory." Backstory provides your character with a reason to start... but all the interesting stuff should occur during the campaign. When you are level 10, the level 1-9 stuff is your backstory, and it should be way more interesting than the pre-level-1 stuff written before the campaign even began.
As long as a background does those three things, that is all you need to start.
Very much this.
I will add one more thing for me. Having done local theatre for the past 5 years or so and working my way up from bit parts to leading roles, you need something that triggers this character. For me it is generally a phrase. Usually a greeting of some kind from the character. "Thii-us is tha Reverend Spiiii-kkesss" sets the tone for me being dressed like Col. Sanders in Greater Tuna with a drawl and he is going to use word play in everything. "Hoooowdy" will immediately take me to Will Stockdale... the bumbling good natured do-gooder in No Time For Sergeants is different than the "Heeee-yyy" of Baby Crumpler in Doublewide and so are his actions. The thing with theatre scripts is they stay the same. You say the same words over and over day after day until you have it memorized. Somewhere in those 5-8 weeks (depending on if you started reading ahead of time) you develop the persona of the character in your mind and by the time the lights go up and you stand in front of an audience, you know who the character is and what they are doing and mostly why.
Most people will work on a character, slap on a name, put in the stats and do an hour of backstory and call it done thinking they are ready for "role-play". At that point you are about 2-4 hours in if you weren't in a hurry. So one session. Good. But you'll find that you really don't understand the character until about 4th or 5th level. That's because we haven't really started to explore them in the beginning. At that point we were just reading the script. If you're lucky, you got the script ahead of time and could say it out loud a few times before the reading and so you might have a head start on the voicing. If you get there that night and are handed a part and a script, you're winging it. That's not a bad thing. You're just introducing yourself to the character. If this were a play, you would finally understand the character, have the voicing and be ready for Opening Night about 10th to 12th level... which is about when most campaigns wrap up.
So, for the most part, don't beat yourself up for having a hard time being "in-character"... few campaigns actually take the time to develop characters enough to get to that point where you can pull them on. It is also one of the reasons that you can look back on some of your longer played characters with nostalgia. You did take the time to get to know them. You knew who they were and what they went through. Just at the point you were ready to go and perform, you put them on the shelf.
Now, just to make sure someone understands the part of the background above, that doesn't mean write out a detailed history of this character and "perform" it every night to get into character before the story starts. You'll spend too much of your time in the past and not pay attention to the present. Just be aware that until you can find what triggers that character in your mind, it is hard to role-play as that character. Just trying to figure out how a person greets others will go a long way toward helping you know who they are. And sometimes, you'll get lucky and you can picture them in your mind and the right drawl comes out and you hit the ground running.
Oh, and another thing about "performance art" if you are actually seeking that as part of your roleplaying experience... I find that I am always more nervous with the house lights up and someone I don't know comes in to the theatre to sit down and watch. Even when I know the character. But you turn off the house lights and pull up the mains and the mood lighting and you open the curtain, and it is a different experience. Same thing in a house. You sit down with a bunch of strangers (or even one new person) and the nerves act out instead of you. That doesn't mean you can add a curtain or install flood lights to make D&D better, but be aware of how others are feeling. Usually all it takes is one player acting in character to begin to pull other people in (Sadly, the DM doesn't always count, cause we all expect the DM to perform). So if you took some extra time to find out who you are, tried out some introduction lines, then be the one that jump starts the in-character voice and actions that help others be more comfortable.
Most people will work on a character, slap on a name, put in the stats and do an hour of backstory and call it done thinking they are ready for "role-play". At that point you are about 2-4 hours in if you weren't in a hurry. So one session. Good. But you'll find that you really don't understand the character until about 4th or 5th level. That's because we haven't really started to explore them in the beginning.
I agree.
One of my players early on talked about how he is "still discovering" who his character is. And this is how an RPG should be. You discover your character as you go.
I think sometimes people try to impose the character into the game from without, beforehand, and then are left with just whatever basic features they came up with in an hour or two. This will lead to a much less complex character than if one discovers it as you go.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I appreciate the advice for how to maximise RP but we're talking about a group of newbies who don't really know much about their characters
If that’s the case, why worry about ”encouraging Role Play” at this stage? Just let them get comfortable playing. The rest can come about down the road.
Maybe try spending some time, 5-10 minutes a session, with what do you think your characters would do if..... type questions to help them flesh out the personalities of their characters. Simple things like:
How would your character react to a cheesy joke?
What would your character do if they found 5 gold on the street? What about if it was 500 gold?
What would your character say to a grieving widow?
How would your character deal with bumping in to their ex at a gathering?
Just silly examples but questions that are relatable to real life that your players may be able to realistically think about how their characters would react, maybe a few personality traits around some easy to relate circumstances might help them translate to how they behave when facing down a hoard of enemies or a tricky situation. If they can’t think of any answers to your questions maybe it will give them something to think about and work on between sessions?
No reason in particular, I didn’t know how you and your group meet up and communicate etc.
Just an idea you can adapt and use anyway you like, I was thinking it’d be a nice thing to do as a group, if you’re trying to encourage your players to RP a bit more maybe they might find it useful to discuss these things as a group and introduce those personality traits to one another but you know your players better then me.
I know this may sound obtuse of me but have you had a conversation with them about how they view RP and if it’s something they actually want to do more of and if so what’s holding them back?
Maybe try spending some time, 5-10 minutes a session, with what do you think your characters would do if..... type questions to help them flesh out the personalities of their characters. Simple things like:
How would your character react to a cheesy joke?
What would your character do if they found 5 gold on the street? What about if it was 500 gold?
What would your character say to a grieving widow?
How would your character deal with bumping in to their ex at a gathering?
Just silly examples but questions that are relatable to real life that your players may be able to realistically think about how their characters would react, maybe a few personality traits around some easy to relate circumstances might help them translate to how they behave when facing down a hoard of enemies or a tricky situation. If they can’t think of any answers to your questions maybe it will give them something to think about and work on between sessions?
When new players and new DMs begin, I guess one of the important questions to back up and ask when trying to come to terms with role-play is, "Does the DM like to Roleplay?" When you begin with your NPCs are you playing them as fleshed out characters so they can see an example of what you mean? Are they distinct? Do they have motivations for why they are selling armor in a store in town versus out adventuring themselves? Do they have a mindset on what type of customers they are expecting? Do they have prejudices against certain races or classes? Do they only talk to the guys in the party? Do they have a favorite color and are they wearing it when the characters enter? Obviously this is overkill for most NPCs, but if you aren't doing this for the NPCs what are you truly expecting of your players? The more creative you are in opening the minds eye, the more likely they are to respond in kind.
Just ask them “what would you like to do?” when they seem stuck.
Personally...PERSONALLY, I like doing voices n all that and as the DM you are in a position to set the example. So get real into it and do all the stuff you’re expecting out of them and maybe they’ll reciprocate. If not, then there’s nothing you can do cuz you can’t and shouldn’t make people play a certain way.
When new players and new DMs begin, I guess one of the important questions to back up and ask when trying to come to terms with role-play is, "Does the DM like to Roleplay?" When you begin with your NPCs are you playing them as fleshed out characters so they can see an example of what you mean? Are they distinct? Do they have motivations for why they are selling armor in a store in town versus out adventuring themselves? Do they have a mindset on what type of customers they are expecting? Do they have prejudices against certain races or classes? Do they only talk to the guys in the party? Do they have a favorite color and are they wearing it when the characters enter? Obviously this is overkill for most NPCs, but if you aren't doing this for the NPCs what are you truly expecting of your players? The more creative you are in opening the minds eye, the more likely they are to respond in kind.
I'm a new DM and my players are all new and something I'd like to improve is the RP the players never talk in character and don't really take the initiative to do anything without me explicitly saying hey guys how bout we do this thing like if we do one thing they'll just stand there silently waiting for me to direct them to next thing and I'd really like some tips on how to try and fix this
May I humbly suggest a large hammer and the insistence that they leave their hands upon the table top?
I'm a new DM and my players are all new and something I'd like to improve is the RP the players never talk in character and don't really take the initiative to do anything without me explicitly saying hey guys how bout we do this thing like if we do one thing they'll just stand there silently waiting for me to direct them to next thing and I'd really like some tips on how to try and fix this
First thing I'd say is don't make people "act." Lead by example and if someone wants to speak in character seeing what you're doing they will. If someone wants to talk in third person though, let them. Your comfort zone is not other people's and they may have better reasons for not wanting to leave theirs than you have for trying to make them. If you want to suggest that they speak in character a bit more propose using one of their personality traits as a catchphrase or aphorism and only dish out inspiration when it's used appropriately in character.
Secondly if they're not willing to take the initiative and they look like a bunch of sheep watching the headlights of an approaching truck after you've asked them "What do you do now?" keep piling on the description. Add details, restate the description in different terms to highlight things. "The desk looks functional, it's one drawer isn't open. There's nothing on top and there's no dust unusually for something in this manky old pit of a dungeon."
And remember if they dither the world moves on around them. If they're dithering in the door of a tavern have old Jed by the fire shout "Put wood in hole lads, were you born in a barn or what?" Likewise if they're standing about in the middle of the Festering Pits of Endless Chaos have something interesting turn up to try and spank them. Or the City Watch becomes interested in a weirdly dressed bunch of weirdos and ne'er do wells loitering at the crossroads.
Finally (as other people have suggested using them), character backstories are the sperm of satan as far as I'm concerned. Once a player comes up with one they expect that it's written in stone and you'll incorporate it into the game. Doubly so if you asked them to write it. If they have a detailed backstory in mind that's fine, but they should keep it to themselves until it's revealed in play. If you want you can work out other things in play by asking the players questions about the way their characters behave. "So you got a worked up about that carpenter abusing his son like that..." but don't feel you have to.
Maybe try spending some time, 5-10 minutes a session, with what do you think your characters would do if..... type questions to help them flesh out the personalities of their characters. Simple things like:
How would your character react to a cheesy joke?
What would your character do if they found 5 gold on the street? What about if it was 500 gold?
What would your character say to a grieving widow?
How would your character deal with bumping in to their ex at a gathering?
Just silly examples but questions that are relatable to real life that your players may be able to realistically think about how their characters would react, maybe a few personality traits around some easy to relate circumstances might help them translate to how they behave when facing down a hoard of enemies or a tricky situation. If they can’t think of any answers to your questions maybe it will give them something to think about and work on between sessions?
God no, why bother with hypothetical questions?? Throw the situation at the characters and play it out!
"Hey Barak, you see there's a purse lying there. What do you do?"
"Hey Cerych, you're always saying that you have a thing for human women. What's the name of one of them? Why do I want to know? 'cause she's standing RIGHT THERE looking surprised to see you...."
Which reminds me I should really MC Apocalypse World more often. I always come back to D&D as a better DM after doing that.
There is something floating around on the internet somewhere, 100 questions for RPers about their characters or some such... If you Google you can find it. You could ask your players to answer some of those (don't make them do all 100). I used to do that after making up a character for MMO RP guilds, before I started RPing with him/her, just to give myself a sense of who the character is. Some characters I kept saying "I dunno," and that told me something. Some characters I was like, "This is easy" and answered them all.
The thing is you answer them in-character, first person... which really can help people think like their character.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
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You can do that, but it isn't necessary. You can also do it as part of the 3 elements I mentioned. "I came here to get away from my rival." Or "I came here in search of my friend." Or, "I am motivated to adventure because my rival adventures and I want to out-earn him in GP and magic items." etc.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Very much this.
I will add one more thing for me. Having done local theatre for the past 5 years or so and working my way up from bit parts to leading roles, you need something that triggers this character. For me it is generally a phrase. Usually a greeting of some kind from the character. "Thii-us is tha Reverend Spiiii-kkesss" sets the tone for me being dressed like Col. Sanders in Greater Tuna with a drawl and he is going to use word play in everything. "Hoooowdy" will immediately take me to Will Stockdale... the bumbling good natured do-gooder in No Time For Sergeants is different than the "Heeee-yyy" of Baby Crumpler in Doublewide and so are his actions. The thing with theatre scripts is they stay the same. You say the same words over and over day after day until you have it memorized. Somewhere in those 5-8 weeks (depending on if you started reading ahead of time) you develop the persona of the character in your mind and by the time the lights go up and you stand in front of an audience, you know who the character is and what they are doing and mostly why.
Most people will work on a character, slap on a name, put in the stats and do an hour of backstory and call it done thinking they are ready for "role-play". At that point you are about 2-4 hours in if you weren't in a hurry. So one session. Good. But you'll find that you really don't understand the character until about 4th or 5th level. That's because we haven't really started to explore them in the beginning. At that point we were just reading the script. If you're lucky, you got the script ahead of time and could say it out loud a few times before the reading and so you might have a head start on the voicing. If you get there that night and are handed a part and a script, you're winging it. That's not a bad thing. You're just introducing yourself to the character. If this were a play, you would finally understand the character, have the voicing and be ready for Opening Night about 10th to 12th level... which is about when most campaigns wrap up.
So, for the most part, don't beat yourself up for having a hard time being "in-character"... few campaigns actually take the time to develop characters enough to get to that point where you can pull them on. It is also one of the reasons that you can look back on some of your longer played characters with nostalgia. You did take the time to get to know them. You knew who they were and what they went through. Just at the point you were ready to go and perform, you put them on the shelf.
Now, just to make sure someone understands the part of the background above, that doesn't mean write out a detailed history of this character and "perform" it every night to get into character before the story starts. You'll spend too much of your time in the past and not pay attention to the present. Just be aware that until you can find what triggers that character in your mind, it is hard to role-play as that character. Just trying to figure out how a person greets others will go a long way toward helping you know who they are. And sometimes, you'll get lucky and you can picture them in your mind and the right drawl comes out and you hit the ground running.
Oh, and another thing about "performance art" if you are actually seeking that as part of your roleplaying experience... I find that I am always more nervous with the house lights up and someone I don't know comes in to the theatre to sit down and watch. Even when I know the character. But you turn off the house lights and pull up the mains and the mood lighting and you open the curtain, and it is a different experience. Same thing in a house. You sit down with a bunch of strangers (or even one new person) and the nerves act out instead of you. That doesn't mean you can add a curtain or install flood lights to make D&D better, but be aware of how others are feeling. Usually all it takes is one player acting in character to begin to pull other people in (Sadly, the DM doesn't always count, cause we all expect the DM to perform). So if you took some extra time to find out who you are, tried out some introduction lines, then be the one that jump starts the in-character voice and actions that help others be more comfortable.
So much for One More Thing... lol...
I agree.
One of my players early on talked about how he is "still discovering" who his character is. And this is how an RPG should be. You discover your character as you go.
I think sometimes people try to impose the character into the game from without, beforehand, and then are left with just whatever basic features they came up with in an hour or two. This will lead to a much less complex character than if one discovers it as you go.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I appreciate the advice for how to maximise RP but we're talking about a group of newbies who don't really know much about their characters
Basic advice: encourage them to create a personality for their characters and a backstory that you can use to build story hooks off of.
If that’s the case, why worry about ”encouraging Role Play” at this stage? Just let them get comfortable playing. The rest can come about down the road.
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Friends, rivals and love interests are great for story hooks.
Maybe try spending some time, 5-10 minutes a session, with what do you think your characters would do if..... type questions to help them flesh out the personalities of their characters. Simple things like:
How would your character react to a cheesy joke?
What would your character do if they found 5 gold on the street? What about if it was 500 gold?
What would your character say to a grieving widow?
How would your character deal with bumping in to their ex at a gathering?
Just silly examples but questions that are relatable to real life that your players may be able to realistically think about how their characters would react, maybe a few personality traits around some easy to relate circumstances might help them translate to how they behave when facing down a hoard of enemies or a tricky situation. If they can’t think of any answers to your questions maybe it will give them something to think about and work on between sessions?
I like the advice but why during the session? Like why not just message them on discord to save session time
No reason in particular, I didn’t know how you and your group meet up and communicate etc.
Just an idea you can adapt and use anyway you like, I was thinking it’d be a nice thing to do as a group, if you’re trying to encourage your players to RP a bit more maybe they might find it useful to discuss these things as a group and introduce those personality traits to one another but you know your players better then me.
I know this may sound obtuse of me but have you had a conversation with them about how they view RP and if it’s something they actually want to do more of and if so what’s holding them back?
I like these ideas.
When new players and new DMs begin, I guess one of the important questions to back up and ask when trying to come to terms with role-play is, "Does the DM like to Roleplay?" When you begin with your NPCs are you playing them as fleshed out characters so they can see an example of what you mean? Are they distinct? Do they have motivations for why they are selling armor in a store in town versus out adventuring themselves? Do they have a mindset on what type of customers they are expecting? Do they have prejudices against certain races or classes? Do they only talk to the guys in the party? Do they have a favorite color and are they wearing it when the characters enter? Obviously this is overkill for most NPCs, but if you aren't doing this for the NPCs what are you truly expecting of your players? The more creative you are in opening the minds eye, the more likely they are to respond in kind.
Just ask them “what would you like to do?” when they seem stuck.
Personally...PERSONALLY, I like doing voices n all that and as the DM you are in a position to set the example. So get real into it and do all the stuff you’re expecting out of them and maybe they’ll reciprocate. If not, then there’s nothing you can do cuz you can’t and shouldn’t make people play a certain way.
Very good point
May I humbly suggest a large hammer and the insistence that they leave their hands upon the table top?
First thing I'd say is don't make people "act." Lead by example and if someone wants to speak in character seeing what you're doing they will. If someone wants to talk in third person though, let them. Your comfort zone is not other people's and they may have better reasons for not wanting to leave theirs than you have for trying to make them. If you want to suggest that they speak in character a bit more propose using one of their personality traits as a catchphrase or aphorism and only dish out inspiration when it's used appropriately in character.
Secondly if they're not willing to take the initiative and they look like a bunch of sheep watching the headlights of an approaching truck after you've asked them "What do you do now?" keep piling on the description. Add details, restate the description in different terms to highlight things. "The desk looks functional, it's one drawer isn't open. There's nothing on top and there's no dust unusually for something in this manky old pit of a dungeon."
And remember if they dither the world moves on around them. If they're dithering in the door of a tavern have old Jed by the fire shout "Put wood in hole lads, were you born in a barn or what?" Likewise if they're standing about in the middle of the Festering Pits of Endless Chaos have something interesting turn up to try and spank them. Or the City Watch becomes interested in a weirdly dressed bunch of weirdos and ne'er do wells loitering at the crossroads.
Finally (as other people have suggested using them), character backstories are the sperm of satan as far as I'm concerned. Once a player comes up with one they expect that it's written in stone and you'll incorporate it into the game. Doubly so if you asked them to write it. If they have a detailed backstory in mind that's fine, but they should keep it to themselves until it's revealed in play. If you want you can work out other things in play by asking the players questions about the way their characters behave. "So you got a worked up about that carpenter abusing his son like that..." but don't feel you have to.
God no, why bother with hypothetical questions?? Throw the situation at the characters and play it out!
"Hey Barak, you see there's a purse lying there. What do you do?"
"Hey Cerych, you're always saying that you have a thing for human women. What's the name of one of them? Why do I want to know? 'cause she's standing RIGHT THERE looking surprised to see you...."
Which reminds me I should really MC Apocalypse World more often. I always come back to D&D as a better DM after doing that.
There is something floating around on the internet somewhere, 100 questions for RPers about their characters or some such... If you Google you can find it. You could ask your players to answer some of those (don't make them do all 100). I used to do that after making up a character for MMO RP guilds, before I started RPing with him/her, just to give myself a sense of who the character is. Some characters I kept saying "I dunno," and that told me something. Some characters I was like, "This is easy" and answered them all.
The thing is you answer them in-character, first person... which really can help people think like their character.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.