So this is my first longer campaign (I have only played DnD oneshots before) so I've been VERY excited about the prospects of finally being able to level up my character! ...But now our party just hit level 4 and I'm experiencing BIG anxieties about what kind of feat I should pick!
I'm playing a Fallen Aasimar paladin with the Oath of Conquest (I really like the RP-potential with the race and oath, and the idea of controlling enemies with fear and intimidation is very satisfying). I made my paladin more Dexterious than Strength based, since I assumed that our Fighter and Barbarian would be at the frontline soaking up hits, and I like to have a high AC without losing stealth with heavy armor. ...However, I didn't account for our fighter to favor RANGED fighting and our barbarian to quit the campaign, so now I'm suddenly out there alone!
The feats I'm currently picking between are primarily:
Shield master Inspiring leader Mounted combatant
I'm open for other suggestions as well (our DM is OK with UA as long as we check in first) and also ASI, if there's something useful I could do with it that beats getting a feat.
Fighting style: Defense Weapons: Longsword and daggers Armor: Shield and breastplate
How I play in combat: In the case of a single enemy, I try to get up close and get a hit with Wrathful smite to make them freightened, and thus act like a wall of fear since the enemy can't willingly come closer. In case of more enemies I will use conquering presence (I'm holding off my necrotic shroud right now since the party thinks I'm human).
Party Members: War Cleric(Moody Drow, avoids physical contact with enemies and likes to bring on the hurt from a safe distance unless she gets pissed) Sorcerer (Intelligent Aarakocra with precious little HP, new player who's still figuring things out) Fighter(Tough Fire genasi, crossbow-user with trademark move where he set his arrows on fire) Rogue(Kindhearted Sea elf, a charismatic performer who ALSO favors the crossbow)
I am at this point desperate, since next session is this Friday... Any experienced players that can give me some adivce, or some fun ideas, or just ward me off from picking a feat that sounds really cool in theory but might not be very practical in game?
So. There are two options I can really see. You either up your own con, or take inspiring leader to give everyone your level+cha mod temp HP per short/long rest (note, you would need 10minutes so, hopefully not going straight from short rest to combat).
This helps the party as well as yourself if you go that route.
You DO want your con up, and eventually your strength. I assume these are rolled stats? Were you able to allocate them all, or was it just roll per stat sort of deal?
Asking because if you were able to allocate, maybe talk to your DM about swapping your dex with either STR or CON as you're only benefitting in Initiative by having a +3 in dex as Medium armor only nets you max +2 from dex, and once you have the gold (and a 15str) you'll want to swap that to Plate for the extra AC, and then you won't be getting any bonus (aside, again from initiative) from having that dex being high.
If your DM allows you to swap that ability score around. Might want to go ASI for CON or STR as it'll allow you to take a few more hits, or don Plate Armor down the line.
I'd be tempted to echo a stat buff as I had a mixed experience with a low stat high feat Paladin, but your DM could fix that with Gauntlets of Ogre strength/giant belt/Amulet of Health and so on. Back to your question though, looking at feats you've got some interesting picks.
I was tempted by mounted combatant on my old Paladin when paired with Find steed, but I'd caution it depending on your DM/campaign. It's great on the open field and in wide spaces, but most caves/dungeons are unlikely to be tall enough to fit you on your steed.
Inspiring leader is nice and free HP is always good, especially one that can be done out of combat. My concern with that, is you are already spreading a little thin with tanking, area denial, and potentially off healing so adding support abilities on top might make you a Jack of all trades and Ace of none.
Shield master is nice though you'd have to drop the dagger for it. Of the three I'd probably point that way if the chance presents itself.
Some more options to consider though
Sentinel might be interesting to prop your area denial/enemy control up. The extra chance to attack with your reaction gives another opening to try a smite as well which is always nice.
You could consider Medium Armor Master for your 16 dex if you are planning to stick with that armor class. Squeeze an extra point of AC out of your Dex, and remove the sneak disadvantage when you upgrade to Half Plate.
I think the slashing weapons feat may have had some crossover to reduce enemy speed to work with your fear/area control, but I can't quite recall the details and it's gone till Tasha's comes out I think
You might want to look into medium armor master. That will make it so you get a +3 from dex while in medium armor. I do love shield master myself, but taking ASI's are great. You can up your offensive attack stat, in this case dex, as well as your Con because its always good to have more HP and a better chance of maintaining your concentration on smites. Speaking of maintaining concentration on smites, if that is something that you are worried about, and you should be if you are going to be a melee tank and have smites, you might want to get the resilient feat for con. Increase your con and gain proficiency with it as a save.
Come to think of it, it might be worth considering Magic Initiate for the Warlock, Bard, or Sorcerer. You get a ranged option (though a bow would work OK for you too), runs off your best stat, and you can pick up a utility spell (maybe Hex or Cause Fear from the Warlock for example)
Pretty big split from what you were thinking, but I remember being frustrated at ranged fights with my Paladin and having to play with javelins.
I notice it appears like you switched around your stats? In D&D Beyond it seems your stats are 17 13 14 11 8 20. If we are going off of those stats, I would suggest a +1 to STR & DEX if you want to stick to your medium armor.
If we are using the stats you put in your post, I would probably bump up STR or get Medium Armor Master. Leaning more towards Strength as a AC of 19 is probably good enough for level 4, although I'm not sure about that.
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I would take a hard look at +2 Str or Con. +2 Str is where I would tend to be because every swing that makes contact is +1 damage for the rest of your life. I think you need the fighter and/or rogue to come up front to enjoy the action, but you can't play their characters for them.
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So. There are two options I can really see. You either up your own con, or take inspiring leader to give everyone your level+cha mod temp HP per short/long rest (note, you would need 10minutes so, hopefully not going straight from short rest to combat).
This helps the party as well as yourself if you go that route.
You DO want your con up, and eventually your strength. I assume these are rolled stats? Were you able to allocate them all, or was it just roll per stat sort of deal?
Asking because if you were able to allocate, maybe talk to your DM about swapping your dex with either STR or CON as you're only benefitting in Initiative by having a +3 in dex as Medium armor only nets you max +2 from dex, and once you have the gold (and a 15str) you'll want to swap that to Plate for the extra AC, and then you won't be getting any bonus (aside, again from initiative) from having that dex being high.
If your DM allows you to swap that ability score around. Might want to go ASI for CON or STR as it'll allow you to take a few more hits, or don Plate Armor down the line.
That's my suggestion for it.
Inspiring leader did feel pretty useful, especially since I can do it after short rests (!) and I feel like every HP counts this early in the campaign. The major reason I'm hesitant to pick that feat is because it only does one very specific thing (compared to the other feats in my list which has different utilities) and I'm worried I won't use it as much when we reach higher levels... However, I DID speak with my DM and she's given me a thumbs up to swap around ability scores (partly because I missunderstood how DEX works with AC), and since her campaign also allows you to switch ONE racial bonus to a different ability score, I can get a 16 on either STR or CON but still keep a 14 DEX to not lower my AC. I'll definitely look into the possibilites to get plate as well!
I'd be tempted to echo a stat buff as I had a mixed experience with a low stat high feat Paladin, but your DM could fix that with Gauntlets of Ogre strength/giant belt/Amulet of Health and so on. Back to your question though, looking at feats you've got some interesting picks.
I was tempted by mounted combatant on my old Paladin when paired with Find steed, but I'd caution it depending on your DM/campaign. It's great on the open field and in wide spaces, but most caves/dungeons are unlikely to be tall enough to fit you on your steed.
Inspiring leader is nice and free HP is always good, especially one that can be done out of combat. My concern with that, is you are already spreading a little thin with tanking, area denial, and potentially off healing so adding support abilities on top might make you a Jack of all trades and Ace of none.
Shield master is nice though you'd have to drop the dagger for it. Of the three I'd probably point that way if the chance presents itself.
Some more options to consider though
Sentinel might be interesting to prop your area denial/enemy control up. The extra chance to attack with your reaction gives another opening to try a smite as well which is always nice.
You could consider Medium Armor Master for your 16 dex if you are planning to stick with that armor class. Squeeze an extra point of AC out of your Dex, and remove the sneak disadvantage when you upgrade to Half Plate.
I think the slashing weapons feat may have had some crossover to reduce enemy speed to work with your fear/area control, but I can't quite recall the details and it's gone till Tasha's comes out I think
Yes, the inherent coolnes of the mounted paladin is an amazing image until you get your horf into a dungeon crawl with small spaces... XD We've had encounters both in open and tight spaces so far, so it's hard to gauge how often we would be able to play with mounted combat... I will definitely tread with caution about picking it as a feat to avoid heartbreak. I have been eyeing sentinel SO many times in the feat-list (since I've heard great stuff about it) and the major reason why I didn't include it here was simply because I felt uncertain how useful it would be on lower levels and considered saving it for level 8. But I see new potential in it now when you put it like that, especially if I can put some fear in my enemies and force them to fight me with disadvantage (and hopefully keep our birdman from getting pummeled!). Medium armor master also sound interesting if it raise your AC AND takes away disadvantage on stealth, I just need the funds to get a half plate. ^^ Also, good catch with the ranged weapons! I can only imagine the frustration with being a landlocked paladin out of range, so if not magic initiate i think it could be smart to invest in something that can do damage from afar.
You might want to look into medium armor master. That will make it so you get a +3 from dex while in medium armor. I do love shield master myself, but taking ASI's are great. You can up your offensive attack stat, in this case dex, as well as your Con because its always good to have more HP and a better chance of maintaining your concentration on smites. Speaking of maintaining concentration on smites, if that is something that you are worried about, and you should be if you are going to be a melee tank and have smites, you might want to get the resilient feat for con. Increase your con and gain proficiency with it as a save.
I just checked it out and yeah, the medium armor master feat would definitely work well with my current DEX of 16 and allow me a higher AC without disadvantage on stealth checks (if I could get my hands on a half plate it would be pretty awesome!). Shield master was probably the feat I was leaning the heaviest to, but i felt that my STR was too low to fully benefit from it. However, I talked to my DM and she's OK with swapping my DEX with another ability, so I could bump up my STR to a 3+ which would be more helpful. On the other hand, the resilient feat also sound very useful for future CON-saves... You have given me a lot to think about! :D
I notice it appears like you switched around your stats? In D&D Beyond it seems your stats are 17 13 14 11 8 20. If we are going off of those stats, I would suggest a +1 to STR & DEX if you want to stick to your medium armor.
If we are using the stats you put in your post, I would probably bump up STR or get Medium Armor Master. Leaning more towards Strength as a AC of 19 is probably good enough for level 4, although I'm not sure about that.
Yeah, my DM gave me an all-clear to swap my DEX-score with another ability, so I was trying it out to see what it would do with my STR. XD I have not decided on anything yet though. Medium armor Master does sound neat (if I decide to keep my 16 DEX), but you also make a good point with 19 AC being good enough for level 4 (I have the highest AC of the group at this point). I'll look it over and see if it makes more sense to keep 16 DEX for medium armor master or possibly bump up my STR (or possibly CON).
I would take a hard look at +2 Str or Con. +2 Str is where I would tend to be because every swing that makes contact is +1 damage for the rest of your life. I think you need the fighter and/or rogue to come up front to enjoy the action, but you can't play their characters for them.
I have recieved a lot of good reasons for bumping up my STR, and after talking to my DM it looks like I can swap my DEX score for another ability that makes sense, so that way I could get a +3 in STR instead of +2. :) Lol! I will try my best to tempt them with flanking advantage so I get some company at the front line. ;D
I'd take a look at medium armor master to raise your AC and remove the DADV on your stealth checks. Also, dump the longsword for a rapier.
Medium Armor Master seems to be the best choice if I decide to stick with my 16 DEX to get my AC up (my DM has cleared that I'm allowed to swap my DEX with another ability if it makes more sense for me and since I missunderstod the usefullnes of a high DEX). I'm not sure about letting go of the longsword (partly because I can deal a 1d10 instead of 1d8 if I use both my hands) but my character is currently on the lookout for a better weapon anyway, so I'm hoping to find something a bit heftier in the future anyway. :)
As others have implied at the moment you say you wanted to be Dex based but are using a longsword. As crazy hawk said switch to a rapier. If you want to go Dec based I would go the whole way and get +2 dex to improve your rapier (and dagger) attacks and initiative and Dex saves. Studded w9uld then give you the same as breastplate, at 8 max out your dex and at 12 either increase your con or go for feats.
Also think about the impact of wrathful smite, if a creature can not attack you they will attack someone else, and if you are the tank that is not what you want. You might get an OP attack in but do you really want them running away from you to attack the sorcerer.
It's a little wishlisty, but if you are concerned over the balance of stealth to AC, you could ask your DM to consider giving you access to Mithral Armor. It's probably going to be a little costly, but it removes a suit of armors strength requirements and stealth penalties which would free up some options for you. It's only uncommon and provides no additional AC bonus (Unless you go for the AI +1 half plate) so it's nothing game breaking, but not sure how well it would fit in your campaign.
Likewise, if you are set on a Longsword (Can't blame you, it's the Paladin classic!) it might be worth looking at the Sunsword/blade. It's very powerful depending on the enemy type (And Rare/legendary depending on which type) but it's a Longsword with the Finesse property, and is very suitable to the Paladin in general. If your DM is up for homebrew stuff you could always work on a toned down version?
And Sentinel was a lot of fun on my Paladin, but was a little unreliable with my 16 strength till I got a magic weapon. As for ranged, sticking with your Dex would be great for a longbow, but don't forget that you can't use some of the Smites on ranged weapon attacks without homebrew.
Just read what you posted just before my response.
If you want ot maximise your effectiveness you have to choose if you want to go strength or Dex. A talked about a dex build above, if you want o go strength swap your dex with your strength as your DM has cleared and then get your strength to 18 for your ASI. This will give you a +4 on your attacks.
You then need to decide whether to go heavy or medium armor. Heavty will improve your DC but stealth rolls are at disadvantage, how much of a disadvantage this is depends a lot on the campaign the DM and the party, does the cleric wear heavy armor? Does the DM use the average stealth roll if the party are trying to sneak or the lowest roll. How much sneaking is there in the campaign? You could ask your DM about the chances of being able to get something like boots of elvenkind to negate this if you are worried about bad stealth.
A third decision is one handed or 2, if you want to go two handed you should pick a two handed weapon, great sworkd probably fits a conquest paladin best for flavor (is is basically just a big long sword when which does extra damage) but you could choose something which does the same damage as the longsword but has reach. The other option is to use the long sword one handed and use a shield this wiull really help your AC. You can use your shield as a spell focus, the only issue comes when you wand to cast a spell with somantic but no matirial component as you would need to sheath your sword (object interaction) before you cast the spell at your next turn you would be able to draw your sword (object interaction) either before using it or after casting another spell but it wmeans you would not have your sword available for oportunity attacks inbetween. Having said that the majority of DMs I know waive this rule and allow you to cast cuer wounds (for example) without sheathing your sword.
It's a little wishlisty, but if you are concerned over the balance of stealth to AC, you could ask your DM to consider giving you access to Mithral Armor. It's probably going to be a little costly, but it removes a suit of armors strength requirements and stealth penalties which would free up some options for you. It's only uncommon and provides no additional AC bonus (Unless you go for the AI +1 half plate) so it's nothing game breaking, but not sure how well it would fit in your campaign.
Likewise, if you are set on a Longsword (Can't blame you, it's the Paladin classic!) it might be worth looking at the Sunsword/blade. It's very powerful depending on the enemy type (And Rare/legendary depending on which type) but it's a Longsword with the Finesse property, and is very suitable to the Paladin in general. If your DM is up for homebrew stuff you could always work on a toned down version?
And Sentinel was a lot of fun on my Paladin, but was a little unreliable with my 16 strength till I got a magic weapon. As for ranged, sticking with your Dex would be great for a longbow, but don't forget that you can't use some of the Smites on ranged weapon attacks without homebrew.
Oh Mithral armor would be very useful! I don't think our DM would make it easily available, but it's very possible that she would let me search for if she knows it's an item my character is very interested in. :) I do really like to have a longsword as well, and as part of my character backstory I'm constantly looking for something with more power to it, so the Sunsword/blade would definitely be intresting for him! We are currenlty in a massive dwarven society with a lot of smiths and shopping oportunities, so it couldn't hurt asking around for weapons and armor with special capabilities. Despite my initial uncertainties about sentinel it has started to climb up the list with purpose now. XD I also realized that it could be VERY useful when I get my aura of conquest on level 7, since any enemy that gets frightened within my aura reduce its speed to 0, which would make flying enemies drop from the sky, and then I can use sentinel to keep them landlocked in case they later save from my fear effect. It's very situational, but it's another point for sentinels usefulness that I didn't took into account before. I'm right now leaning towards swapping my 16 DEX for a 16 STR, so I can keep my current AC of 19 but get the potential to wear heavier armor further down the road and get more power in my longsword. I'm still deciding between sentinel, shield master, or potentially resilient to get proficiency with con saves. But I feel WAY more confident now with what I want vs what would actually be useful, so thank you so much for all your advice. ;D
Just read what you posted just before my response.
If you want ot maximise your effectiveness you have to choose if you want to go strength or Dex. A talked about a dex build above, if you want o go strength swap your dex with your strength as your DM has cleared and then get your strength to 18 for your ASI. This will give you a +4 on your attacks.
You then need to decide whether to go heavy or medium armor. Heavty will improve your DC but stealth rolls are at disadvantage, how much of a disadvantage this is depends a lot on the campaign the DM and the party, does the cleric wear heavy armor? Does the DM use the average stealth roll if the party are trying to sneak or the lowest roll. How much sneaking is there in the campaign? You could ask your DM about the chances of being able to get something like boots of elvenkind to negate this if you are worried about bad stealth.
A third decision is one handed or 2, if you want to go two handed you should pick a two handed weapon, great sworkd probably fits a conquest paladin best for flavor (is is basically just a big long sword when which does extra damage) but you could choose something which does the same damage as the longsword but has reach. The other option is to use the long sword one handed and use a shield this wiull really help your AC. You can use your shield as a spell focus, the only issue comes when you wand to cast a spell with somantic but no matirial component as you would need to sheath your sword (object interaction) before you cast the spell at your next turn you would be able to draw your sword (object interaction) either before using it or after casting another spell but it wmeans you would not have your sword available for oportunity attacks inbetween. Having said that the majority of DMs I know waive this rule and allow you to cast cuer wounds (for example) without sheathing your sword.
Yes, I agree that swapping my 16 DEX for a 16 STR is probably gonna do me better in the long run, especially if I decide to pick up heavier armor and want to do more damage with my longsword. The cleric has a minus in STR so no armor there. XD We have honestly not made a lot of stealth checks so far, and when we do I've gathered from the results that it's a group effort, so if if one player rolls poorly but the others do good, we will still succeed (unless its a nat1). A greatsword sounds great (!), though I really like the idea of a one handed weapon and shield, especially with the higher AC, and it goes well with the kind of character I play. I also didn't know that my shield could be used as an arcane focus but I'm very excited about it! And thank you for the heads-up on spells that require somantic components, I'm happy that most of the spells I have are verbal (wrathful smite, command) but that could change at higher levels, so I will defintiely check with my DM how she treat object interactions during battle, especially with sword-wielding casters.
Most of the paladins that I know personally prioritize strength, then charisma and then constitution. Dex is a dump stat.
If you could swap your Str and Dex, then we have this ...
Level: 4 HP: 36 (10+2 + 3xN+6) N= 6 has been your average HP roll per level? AC: 19
STR: 16 DEX: 14 CON: 14 INT: 11 WIS: 8 CHA: 20
Fighting style: Defense Weapons: Longsword and daggers Armor: Shield and breastplate
and you still get an ASI -or- feat. I would still be considering an 18 strength rather than a feat at level 4, but with a 16 strength and a 20 charisma, I can understand your desire to think about it.
Shield master This sounds a lot like you. You want to be in the thick of it and if anyone is around you want to help them stay in the fight. If the rogue fights melee standing next to you and fighting a monster within 5 feet of you, he gets his rogue bonus, just sayin'.
Inspiring leader This doesn't sound like it is going to get a lot of utility in your group. Your other fellows should like they don't want to be hit at all, and take some measures to minimize the chances of it happening. The Bard I play is a bit more likely to get into it and has run into a fight often just to give the minions more targets to distribute their strikes upon. We'll just use Song of Rest later and have a good laugh. Without checking my notes, I believe my level 5 Bard has killed eight monsters with his rapier. In one recent encounter he took more damage than any of the other players. He does it because he knows by talking a little damage he helps keep the real fighters in the fight to the end. So far that party has only seen the Rogue make death saves five or six times and the paladin once, because he was unlucky enough to fail a save against a breath weapon.
Mounted combatant - I just don't see this being a top draw when it is unlikely your party will have many encounters where you fight as mounted warriors, especially when they are hide in the back sort of players. But maybe, when you're outdoors, the other players can remain mounted and fight from a distance and rely on their mounts to keep them out of melee. But in the end, you have to be outdoors and riding a horse, and you have to avoid being unhorsed (knocked off your horse) to use this, right? That sounds like a small number of combat encounters to me.
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Most of the paladins that I know personally prioritize strength, then charisma and then constitution. Dex is a dump stat.
If you could swap your Str and Dex, then we have this ...
Level: 4 HP: 36 (10+2 + 3xN+6) N= 6 has been your average HP roll per level? AC: 19
STR: 16 DEX: 14 CON: 14 INT: 11 WIS: 8 CHA: 20
Fighting style: Defense Weapons: Longsword and daggers Armor: Shield and breastplate
and you still get an ASI -or- feat. I would still be considering an 18 strength rather than a feat at level 4, but with a 16 strength and a 20 charisma, I can understand your desire to think about it.
Shield master This sounds a lot like you. You want to be in the thick of it and if anyone is around you want to help them stay in the fight. If the rogue fights melee standing next to you and fighting a monster within 5 feet of you, he gets his rogue bonus, just sayin'.
Inspiring leader This doesn't sound like it is going to get a lot of utility in your group. Your other fellows should like they don't want to be hit at all, and take some measures to minimize the chances of it happening. The Bard I play is a bit more likely to get into it and has run into a fight often just to give the minions more targets to distribute their strikes upon. We'll just use Song of Rest later and have a good laugh. Without checking my notes, I believe my level 5 Bard has killed eight monsters with his rapier. In one recent encounter he took more damage than any of the other players. He does it because he knows by talking a little damage he helps keep the real fighters in the fight to the end. So far that party has only seen the Rogue make death saves five or six times and the paladin once, because he was unlucky enough to fail a save against a breath weapon.
Mounted combatant - I just don't see this being a top draw when it is unlikely your party will have many encounters where you fight as mounted warriors, especially when they are hide in the back sort of players. But maybe, when you're outdoors, the other players can remain mounted and fight from a distance and rely on their mounts to keep them out of melee. But in the end, you have to be outdoors and riding a horse, and you have to avoid being unhorsed (knocked off your horse) to use this, right? That sounds like a small number of combat encounters to me.
I did it! :D I've officially swapped my DEX and STR and I'm not looking back! I'm still a bit indecisive about wheather I should pick an ASI or feat (feats are very exciting, but ASI sounds very useful)... After a lot of thinking, I believe I have to agree that Inspiring Leader and Mounted Combatant feels like the wrong investment to make at this point in the campaign (I was mostly considering Mounted Combatant because of RP-reasons since I will likely pick Find Steed at level 5, but I can still have fun without that feat and without draging the poor animal into battle ;D). Shield master still feels pretty tempting, especially when I get the Aura of Conquest at level 7 where I can do the prone trap. But I've also been recomended Sentinel (which I didn't include in my first post because I imagined picking it at a higher level), and now I've realized that it might be more useful than I thought even at a low level. ^^
Id still recommend resilient for con. Proficiency with saving throws is better then advantage at times. You get the +1 to con aswell!
Clearly you can take these things at different points too. Some DM's will let you train to increase your ability scores or to get feats and training can be enjoyable RP and usually dosent cost more then just in game time and or money.
Depends on the theme of the campaign, playing Rise of Tiamat with an Oathbreaker/Hexblade combo, and I rolled high on stats so only needed one asi, variant human so have 3 feats.
Sentinel Shield Master Resilient DEX
So **** most of your breath attacks Tiamat. DM screwed up and gave me the Sentinel Shield as well.
I'll have you know that a couple of hours before our session yesterday, I informed my vey patient DM about my choice for level 4:
Feat: Sentinel
...Which interestingly wasn't even among the feats I was considering! Mostly because I'm so used to play my characters defensively, and I've always seen Sentinel as a very offensive feat, mostly for players who loves to get into the thick of the action with no fear of taking some blows, and I also felt that level 4 was a little too early and risky to pick it. But the more I thought about it, the more it made sense: I am the highest damage dealer and have highest HP next to the Fighter, and my character is also fiercely protective, so it would be very sweet RP:ing to have him stop enemies from going after his group.
And the risks of forcing an enemy to stay and keep fighting me seemed less and less dangerous considering that I have Healing Hands as well as Lay on Hands (AND the Cleric has a thing for me and will prevent me from going down at all costs). I'm really not used to play a character that's up in the opponents face in battle, but with your guys help I feel more confident in giving this playing style a shot. And hey, I'm not one to say no to an extra free swing.
Note: I was extremely close to picking Shield Master, but the thing that eventually made me turn it down (at least for now) is that making enemies prone would help me, but ultimately give my crossbow-loving team mates disadvantage on attack rolls. So rather than having them change their playing style, Sentinel would actually make it easier for them to just shower whoever I'm fighting in piercing damage while I'm keeping their speed at 0.
A huge thanks to all your amazing dedication and help with this! You absolutely rock, and deserve free inspiration for your next game. :)
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So this is my first longer campaign (I have only played DnD oneshots before) so I've been VERY excited about the prospects of finally being able to level up my character! ...But now our party just hit level 4 and I'm experiencing BIG anxieties about what kind of feat I should pick!
I'm playing a Fallen Aasimar paladin with the Oath of Conquest (I really like the RP-potential with the race and oath, and the idea of controlling enemies with fear and intimidation is very satisfying). I made my paladin more Dexterious than Strength based, since I assumed that our Fighter and Barbarian would be at the frontline soaking up hits, and I like to have a high AC without losing stealth with heavy armor. ...However, I didn't account for our fighter to favor RANGED fighting and our barbarian to quit the campaign, so now I'm suddenly out there alone!
The feats I'm currently picking between are primarily:
Shield master
Inspiring leader
Mounted combatant
I'm open for other suggestions as well (our DM is OK with UA as long as we check in first) and also ASI, if there's something useful I could do with it that beats getting a feat.
Link to character sheet on DnDBeyond: https://www.dndbeyond.com/profile/TheBlackSquirrel/characters/32327181
Or read below:
Level: 4
HP: 36
AC: 19
STR: 14
DEX: 16
CON: 14
INT: 11
WIS: 8
CHA: 20
Fighting style: Defense
Weapons: Longsword and daggers
Armor: Shield and breastplate
How I play in combat: In the case of a single enemy, I try to get up close and get a hit with Wrathful smite to make them freightened, and thus act like a wall of fear since the enemy can't willingly come closer. In case of more enemies I will use conquering presence (I'm holding off my necrotic shroud right now since the party thinks I'm human).
Party Members:
War Cleric (Moody Drow, avoids physical contact with enemies and likes to bring on the hurt from a safe distance unless she gets pissed)
Sorcerer (Intelligent Aarakocra with precious little HP, new player who's still figuring things out)
Fighter (Tough Fire genasi, crossbow-user with trademark move where he set his arrows on fire)
Rogue (Kindhearted Sea elf, a charismatic performer who ALSO favors the crossbow)
I am at this point desperate, since next session is this Friday... Any experienced players that can give me some adivce, or some fun ideas, or just ward me off from picking a feat that sounds really cool in theory but might not be very practical in game?
So. There are two options I can really see. You either up your own con, or take inspiring leader to give everyone your level+cha mod temp HP per short/long rest (note, you would need 10minutes so, hopefully not going straight from short rest to combat).
This helps the party as well as yourself if you go that route.
You DO want your con up, and eventually your strength. I assume these are rolled stats? Were you able to allocate them all, or was it just roll per stat sort of deal?
Asking because if you were able to allocate, maybe talk to your DM about swapping your dex with either STR or CON as you're only benefitting in Initiative by having a +3 in dex as Medium armor only nets you max +2 from dex, and once you have the gold (and a 15str) you'll want to swap that to Plate for the extra AC, and then you won't be getting any bonus (aside, again from initiative) from having that dex being high.
If your DM allows you to swap that ability score around. Might want to go ASI for CON or STR as it'll allow you to take a few more hits, or don Plate Armor down the line.
That's my suggestion for it.
I'd be tempted to echo a stat buff as I had a mixed experience with a low stat high feat Paladin, but your DM could fix that with Gauntlets of Ogre strength/giant belt/Amulet of Health and so on. Back to your question though, looking at feats you've got some interesting picks.
I was tempted by mounted combatant on my old Paladin when paired with Find steed, but I'd caution it depending on your DM/campaign. It's great on the open field and in wide spaces, but most caves/dungeons are unlikely to be tall enough to fit you on your steed.
Inspiring leader is nice and free HP is always good, especially one that can be done out of combat. My concern with that, is you are already spreading a little thin with tanking, area denial, and potentially off healing so adding support abilities on top might make you a Jack of all trades and Ace of none.
Shield master is nice though you'd have to drop the dagger for it. Of the three I'd probably point that way if the chance presents itself.
Some more options to consider though
Sentinel might be interesting to prop your area denial/enemy control up. The extra chance to attack with your reaction gives another opening to try a smite as well which is always nice.
You could consider Medium Armor Master for your 16 dex if you are planning to stick with that armor class. Squeeze an extra point of AC out of your Dex, and remove the sneak disadvantage when you upgrade to Half Plate.
I think the slashing weapons feat may have had some crossover to reduce enemy speed to work with your fear/area control, but I can't quite recall the details and it's gone till Tasha's comes out I think
You might want to look into medium armor master. That will make it so you get a +3 from dex while in medium armor. I do love shield master myself, but taking ASI's are great. You can up your offensive attack stat, in this case dex, as well as your Con because its always good to have more HP and a better chance of maintaining your concentration on smites. Speaking of maintaining concentration on smites, if that is something that you are worried about, and you should be if you are going to be a melee tank and have smites, you might want to get the resilient feat for con. Increase your con and gain proficiency with it as a save.
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Come to think of it, it might be worth considering Magic Initiate for the Warlock, Bard, or Sorcerer. You get a ranged option (though a bow would work OK for you too), runs off your best stat, and you can pick up a utility spell (maybe Hex or Cause Fear from the Warlock for example)
Pretty big split from what you were thinking, but I remember being frustrated at ranged fights with my Paladin and having to play with javelins.
I notice it appears like you switched around your stats? In D&D Beyond it seems your stats are 17 13 14 11 8 20. If we are going off of those stats, I would suggest a +1 to STR & DEX if you want to stick to your medium armor.
If we are using the stats you put in your post, I would probably bump up STR or get Medium Armor Master. Leaning more towards Strength as a AC of 19 is probably good enough for level 4, although I'm not sure about that.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
I would take a hard look at +2 Str or Con. +2 Str is where I would tend to be because every swing that makes contact is +1 damage for the rest of your life. I think you need the fighter and/or rogue to come up front to enjoy the action, but you can't play their characters for them.
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I'd take a look at medium armor master to raise your AC and remove the DADV on your stealth checks. Also, dump the longsword for a rapier.
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Tasha
Oooh those are some really good advice people! :D I never expected to get this much help, and I'm truly greatful.🖤
Inspiring leader did feel pretty useful, especially since I can do it after short rests (!) and I feel like every HP counts this early in the campaign. The major reason I'm hesitant to pick that feat is because it only does one very specific thing (compared to the other feats in my list which has different utilities) and I'm worried I won't use it as much when we reach higher levels... However, I DID speak with my DM and she's given me a thumbs up to swap around ability scores (partly because I missunderstood how DEX works with AC), and since her campaign also allows you to switch ONE racial bonus to a different ability score, I can get a 16 on either STR or CON but still keep a 14 DEX to not lower my AC. I'll definitely look into the possibilites to get plate as well!
Yes, the inherent coolnes of the mounted paladin is an amazing image until you get your horf into a dungeon crawl with small spaces... XD We've had encounters both in open and tight spaces so far, so it's hard to gauge how often we would be able to play with mounted combat... I will definitely tread with caution about picking it as a feat to avoid heartbreak.
I have been eyeing sentinel SO many times in the feat-list (since I've heard great stuff about it) and the major reason why I didn't include it here was simply because I felt uncertain how useful it would be on lower levels and considered saving it for level 8. But I see new potential in it now when you put it like that, especially if I can put some fear in my enemies and force them to fight me with disadvantage (and hopefully keep our birdman from getting pummeled!). Medium armor master also sound interesting if it raise your AC AND takes away disadvantage on stealth, I just need the funds to get a half plate. ^^ Also, good catch with the ranged weapons! I can only imagine the frustration with being a landlocked paladin out of range, so if not magic initiate i think it could be smart to invest in something that can do damage from afar.
I just checked it out and yeah, the medium armor master feat would definitely work well with my current DEX of 16 and allow me a higher AC without disadvantage on stealth checks (if I could get my hands on a half plate it would be pretty awesome!). Shield master was probably the feat I was leaning the heaviest to, but i felt that my STR was too low to fully benefit from it. However, I talked to my DM and she's OK with swapping my DEX with another ability, so I could bump up my STR to a 3+ which would be more helpful. On the other hand, the resilient feat also sound very useful for future CON-saves... You have given me a lot to think about! :D
Yeah, my DM gave me an all-clear to swap my DEX-score with another ability, so I was trying it out to see what it would do with my STR. XD I have not decided on anything yet though.
Medium armor Master does sound neat (if I decide to keep my 16 DEX), but you also make a good point with 19 AC being good enough for level 4 (I have the highest AC of the group at this point). I'll look it over and see if it makes more sense to keep 16 DEX for medium armor master or possibly bump up my STR (or possibly CON).
I have recieved a lot of good reasons for bumping up my STR, and after talking to my DM it looks like I can swap my DEX score for another ability that makes sense, so that way I could get a +3 in STR instead of +2. :) Lol! I will try my best to tempt them with flanking advantage so I get some company at the front line. ;D
Medium Armor Master seems to be the best choice if I decide to stick with my 16 DEX to get my AC up (my DM has cleared that I'm allowed to swap my DEX with another ability if it makes more sense for me and since I missunderstod the usefullnes of a high DEX). I'm not sure about letting go of the longsword (partly because I can deal a 1d10 instead of 1d8 if I use both my hands) but my character is currently on the lookout for a better weapon anyway, so I'm hoping to find something a bit heftier in the future anyway. :)
As others have implied at the moment you say you wanted to be Dex based but are using a longsword. As crazy hawk said switch to a rapier. If you want to go Dec based I would go the whole way and get +2 dex to improve your rapier (and dagger) attacks and initiative and Dex saves. Studded w9uld then give you the same as breastplate, at 8 max out your dex and at 12 either increase your con or go for feats.
Also think about the impact of wrathful smite, if a creature can not attack you they will attack someone else, and if you are the tank that is not what you want. You might get an OP attack in but do you really want them running away from you to attack the sorcerer.
It's a little wishlisty, but if you are concerned over the balance of stealth to AC, you could ask your DM to consider giving you access to Mithral Armor. It's probably going to be a little costly, but it removes a suit of armors strength requirements and stealth penalties which would free up some options for you. It's only uncommon and provides no additional AC bonus (Unless you go for the AI +1 half plate) so it's nothing game breaking, but not sure how well it would fit in your campaign.
Likewise, if you are set on a Longsword (Can't blame you, it's the Paladin classic!) it might be worth looking at the Sunsword/blade. It's very powerful depending on the enemy type (And Rare/legendary depending on which type) but it's a Longsword with the Finesse property, and is very suitable to the Paladin in general. If your DM is up for homebrew stuff you could always work on a toned down version?
And Sentinel was a lot of fun on my Paladin, but was a little unreliable with my 16 strength till I got a magic weapon. As for ranged, sticking with your Dex would be great for a longbow, but don't forget that you can't use some of the Smites on ranged weapon attacks without homebrew.
Just read what you posted just before my response.
If you want ot maximise your effectiveness you have to choose if you want to go strength or Dex. A talked about a dex build above, if you want o go strength swap your dex with your strength as your DM has cleared and then get your strength to 18 for your ASI. This will give you a +4 on your attacks.
You then need to decide whether to go heavy or medium armor. Heavty will improve your DC but stealth rolls are at disadvantage, how much of a disadvantage this is depends a lot on the campaign the DM and the party, does the cleric wear heavy armor? Does the DM use the average stealth roll if the party are trying to sneak or the lowest roll. How much sneaking is there in the campaign? You could ask your DM about the chances of being able to get something like boots of elvenkind to negate this if you are worried about bad stealth.
A third decision is one handed or 2, if you want to go two handed you should pick a two handed weapon, great sworkd probably fits a conquest paladin best for flavor (is is basically just a big long sword when which does extra damage) but you could choose something which does the same damage as the longsword but has reach. The other option is to use the long sword one handed and use a shield this wiull really help your AC. You can use your shield as a spell focus, the only issue comes when you wand to cast a spell with somantic but no matirial component as you would need to sheath your sword (object interaction) before you cast the spell at your next turn you would be able to draw your sword (object interaction) either before using it or after casting another spell but it wmeans you would not have your sword available for oportunity attacks inbetween. Having said that the majority of DMs I know waive this rule and allow you to cast cuer wounds (for example) without sheathing your sword.
Oh Mithral armor would be very useful! I don't think our DM would make it easily available, but it's very possible that she would let me search for if she knows it's an item my character is very interested in. :) I do really like to have a longsword as well, and as part of my character backstory I'm constantly looking for something with more power to it, so the Sunsword/blade would definitely be intresting for him! We are currenlty in a massive dwarven society with a lot of smiths and shopping oportunities, so it couldn't hurt asking around for weapons and armor with special capabilities.
Despite my initial uncertainties about sentinel it has started to climb up the list with purpose now. XD I also realized that it could be VERY useful when I get my aura of conquest on level 7, since any enemy that gets frightened within my aura reduce its speed to 0, which would make flying enemies drop from the sky, and then I can use sentinel to keep them landlocked in case they later save from my fear effect. It's very situational, but it's another point for sentinels usefulness that I didn't took into account before. I'm right now leaning towards swapping my 16 DEX for a 16 STR, so I can keep my current AC of 19 but get the potential to wear heavier armor further down the road and get more power in my longsword. I'm still deciding between sentinel, shield master, or potentially resilient to get proficiency with con saves. But I feel WAY more confident now with what I want vs what would actually be useful, so thank you so much for all your advice. ;D
Yes, I agree that swapping my 16 DEX for a 16 STR is probably gonna do me better in the long run, especially if I decide to pick up heavier armor and want to do more damage with my longsword. The cleric has a minus in STR so no armor there. XD We have honestly not made a lot of stealth checks so far, and when we do I've gathered from the results that it's a group effort, so if if one player rolls poorly but the others do good, we will still succeed (unless its a nat1).
A greatsword sounds great (!), though I really like the idea of a one handed weapon and shield, especially with the higher AC, and it goes well with the kind of character I play. I also didn't know that my shield could be used as an arcane focus but I'm very excited about it! And thank you for the heads-up on spells that require somantic components, I'm happy that most of the spells I have are verbal (wrathful smite, command) but that could change at higher levels, so I will defintiely check with my DM how she treat object interactions during battle, especially with sword-wielding casters.
Most of the paladins that I know personally prioritize strength, then charisma and then constitution. Dex is a dump stat.
If you could swap your Str and Dex, then we have this ...
Level: 4
HP: 36 (10+2 + 3xN+6) N= 6 has been your average HP roll per level?
AC: 19
STR: 16
DEX: 14
CON: 14
INT: 11
WIS: 8
CHA: 20
Fighting style: Defense
Weapons: Longsword and daggers
Armor: Shield and breastplate
and you still get an ASI -or- feat. I would still be considering an 18 strength rather than a feat at level 4, but with a 16 strength and a 20 charisma, I can understand your desire to think about it.
Shield master This sounds a lot like you. You want to be in the thick of it and if anyone is around you want to help them stay in the fight. If the rogue fights melee standing next to you and fighting a monster within 5 feet of you, he gets his rogue bonus, just sayin'.
Inspiring leader This doesn't sound like it is going to get a lot of utility in your group. Your other fellows should like they don't want to be hit at all, and take some measures to minimize the chances of it happening. The Bard I play is a bit more likely to get into it and has run into a fight often just to give the minions more targets to distribute their strikes upon. We'll just use Song of Rest later and have a good laugh. Without checking my notes, I believe my level 5 Bard has killed eight monsters with his rapier. In one recent encounter he took more damage than any of the other players. He does it because he knows by talking a little damage he helps keep the real fighters in the fight to the end. So far that party has only seen the Rogue make death saves five or six times and the paladin once, because he was unlucky enough to fail a save against a breath weapon.
Mounted combatant - I just don't see this being a top draw when it is unlikely your party will have many encounters where you fight as mounted warriors, especially when they are hide in the back sort of players. But maybe, when you're outdoors, the other players can remain mounted and fight from a distance and rely on their mounts to keep them out of melee. But in the end, you have to be outdoors and riding a horse, and you have to avoid being unhorsed (knocked off your horse) to use this, right? That sounds like a small number of combat encounters to me.
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I did it! :D I've officially swapped my DEX and STR and I'm not looking back! I'm still a bit indecisive about wheather I should pick an ASI or feat (feats are very exciting, but ASI sounds very useful)... After a lot of thinking, I believe I have to agree that Inspiring Leader and Mounted Combatant feels like the wrong investment to make at this point in the campaign (I was mostly considering Mounted Combatant because of RP-reasons since I will likely pick Find Steed at level 5, but I can still have fun without that feat and without draging the poor animal into battle ;D). Shield master still feels pretty tempting, especially when I get the Aura of Conquest at level 7 where I can do the prone trap. But I've also been recomended Sentinel (which I didn't include in my first post because I imagined picking it at a higher level), and now I've realized that it might be more useful than I thought even at a low level. ^^
Happy to have helped a little, and hope that you have fun with whatever option you pick =)
Id still recommend resilient for con. Proficiency with saving throws is better then advantage at times. You get the +1 to con aswell!
Clearly you can take these things at different points too. Some DM's will let you train to increase your ability scores or to get feats and training can be enjoyable RP and usually dosent cost more then just in game time and or money.
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Depends on the theme of the campaign, playing Rise of Tiamat with an Oathbreaker/Hexblade combo, and I rolled high on stats so only needed one asi, variant human so have 3 feats.
Sentinel
Shield Master
Resilient DEX
So **** most of your breath attacks Tiamat.
DM screwed up and gave me the Sentinel Shield as well.
I'll have you know that a couple of hours before our session yesterday, I informed my vey patient DM about my choice for level 4:
Feat: Sentinel
...Which interestingly wasn't even among the feats I was considering! Mostly because I'm so used to play my characters defensively, and I've always seen Sentinel as a very offensive feat, mostly for players who loves to get into the thick of the action with no fear of taking some blows, and I also felt that level 4 was a little too early and risky to pick it. But the more I thought about it, the more it made sense: I am the highest damage dealer and have highest HP next to the Fighter, and my character is also fiercely protective, so it would be very sweet RP:ing to have him stop enemies from going after his group.
And the risks of forcing an enemy to stay and keep fighting me seemed less and less dangerous considering that I have Healing Hands as well as Lay on Hands (AND the Cleric has a thing for me and will prevent me from going down at all costs). I'm really not used to play a character that's up in the opponents face in battle, but with your guys help I feel more confident in giving this playing style a shot. And hey, I'm not one to say no to an extra free swing.
Note: I was extremely close to picking Shield Master, but the thing that eventually made me turn it down (at least for now) is that making enemies prone would help me, but ultimately give my crossbow-loving team mates disadvantage on attack rolls. So rather than having them change their playing style, Sentinel would actually make it easier for them to just shower whoever I'm fighting in piercing damage while I'm keeping their speed at 0.
A huge thanks to all your amazing dedication and help with this! You absolutely rock, and deserve free inspiration for your next game. :)