Am I seriously the only person who thought Ghosts of Saltmarsh was crushingly disappointing? I get the book, I start running a campaign based on the promises of ghosts, pirates, ghost pirates, and High Seas Rollicking Adventure(!!!). What I get is smugglers pulling a scam, swamp people, lizard politics, exactly one scene involving any sort of piratical adventure or seaborne fun, and exactly one scene involving any sort of ghosts.
Ugh. Screw that book.
Very true. I really only use the ship rules and I think I did a one-shot of one of the adventures once. I did like TftYP though.
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Please check out my homebrew and give me feedback!
I was legitimately surprised by the announcement of an adventure, I thought a setting was more likely. I don't know, the book might be really nice, and I do like the shorter adventures. I don't think all of them will be good. Maybe one or two will be great, and some others will be OK. I did really like Tales from the Yawning Portal and Ghosts of Saltmarsh, so something along those lines is pretty cool. The fact that this is an adventure makes me think it will be 2 adventures and 2 settings this year, which kind of sucks. I hope some of the adventures are really good.
It was my understanding that there've already been interviews implying (or outright stating? I've not read them) that there would be three campaign setting books this year, based on settings from older editions, and that those were separate from any M:tG crossover content, adventures, or sourcebooks. I'm not certain why so many people are convinced that A) We're only getting four books this year, or B) This book, put together by almost no Wizard staffers and not requiring the company's full attention, is "stealing" one of those book slots.
It seems that a lot of people's anger/frustration is based on some pretty wild assumptions.
Because Wizards has a firm policy, backed by their track record over the last few years, of only releasing four major books in a year. One of the biggest things that they got backlash'd over with older editions was pushing out too many books too quickly and swamping the market - the oh-so-dreaded problem of Book Bloat. They have since committed to a four-a-year schedule of book releases, which in turn allows each book plenty of space to generate its own sales without being crowded out of the market by another Wizards product.
Candlekeep may not have involved a lot of Wizards dev time, but it's still an official Wizards book, and as such it occupies one of the four yearly books Wizards will be willing to release in 2021. One can hope that Wizards breaks its promise and its years-old pattern, but I don't see that happening any time soon. More likely, if Candlekeep was as resource-light as people say it was (I have my doubts; even if other people wrote it, Wizards still had to edit, curate, and assemble it), that resource windfall would've simply been pushed into making another of the books in the normal pipeline a bit fatter. Or, hell, it already did - Explorer's Guide to Wildemount was a much thiccer book than Wizards is normally willing to release, maybe Candlekeep is the other end of that since they had to sink more resources than they usually do into Wildemount.
As Yurei said about their usual release schedule over the last few years. It also tends to be March/June/September/November (though it might not be Sept I forget). The fact that this book comes out in mid-March makes it seem even more unlikely that they'll cram 4 other books in.
And I think we'll most likely have another adventure (probably September) with the full campaign thing that they do every year, just because they've done that every year since the release of 5e.
And the other two will probably be settings because it ties in with UA and just other theories. I don't really think we'll have a sourcebook, really because of the lack of UA material. Maybe we'll get a monster book next year or in November, but I really, really doubt (and hope) that we don't get a subclass book until they've thoroughly playtested it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew and give me feedback!
I was legitimately surprised by the announcement of an adventure, I thought a setting was more likely. I don't know, the book might be really nice, and I do like the shorter adventures. I don't think all of them will be good. Maybe one or two will be great, and some others will be OK. I did really like Tales from the Yawning Portal and Ghosts of Saltmarsh, so something along those lines is pretty cool. The fact that this is an adventure makes me think it will be 2 adventures and 2 settings this year, which kind of sucks. I hope some of the adventures are really good.
It was my understanding that there've already been interviews implying (or outright stating? I've not read them) that there would be three campaign setting books this year
The statement was three settings in development, release dates were not stated.
It would be nice if they added a regular 5th book of smaller, actually modular adventures. It wouldn’t really complete with a new Setting, Campaign,* Folio, or “Everything” book. As a collection of short modules it would really just complement all of those. It won’t have any player options, so it would be a DMs’ product. Some short Modules, and a handful of magic items and monsters is not going to compete with a campaign like CoS for sales to DMs, and if you want a folio of monsters this won’t compete with something like Mordenkinen’s. Without player options, it won’t compete with settings or everything books either, or even a book like Volo’s. *(“Adventure” whatever, I don’t care what they call it. If it takes you from levels 1-11+, it’s a campaign.)
It would have some traps and puzzles and maps for the DM looking for stuff to cannibalizes for homebrew, and if we get two or three books like that it would be enough for any DM to mix and match their own string of adventures tied together with their own narratives, and still have untouched material to do it again. That’s exactly why I still use my old 1e/2e modules instead of WotC publish adventures. They’re like apps.
I need a quick dungeon crawl? I got a stack I could use, why not send them In Search of the Unknown? (TSR 9023, aka Module B1)
I need something to bridge the gap until I develop the next arc? How about a madcap funhouse dungeon where up is down and everything can get you killed. Welcome to Château d’ Amberville (TSR 9051 aka X2), and I can even throw the next party into the sequel (TSR 2513) so the players can get both stories.
I need a C plot with a bullet? How about a convenient run in with a local Den of Thieves? (TSR 9515) There are a bunch of short 1 offs in there that I could develop.
I don’t buy the Adventures, they’re too big, too long, and too inflexible for my needs. I get that people love them, but for me, a collection of short adventures is way more appealing. This is the first thing I’ve actually considered preordering, and I haven’t actually read any of the articles yet.
For players who don’t have a library of old modules to use, this could be a super useful book to have.
that article definitely did make it more appealing
I posted that article too a few pages back while the chat tempo was still geared on 4e mechanics as a way to save mystery play for some reason. It's a good write up (though recognizing we're reading transcripted hype from a virtual press conference), and confirmed / reinforced my understanding of the product. I thought the new designers talking about the challenges of designing a short adventure was interesting, and I like the idea that the adventures themselves are very different in tempo, theme etc. I'd argue that a book like this, even if you don't run most of it might be useful for inspiration or hooks to change up an existing campaign.
I was legitimately surprised by the announcement of an adventure, I thought a setting was more likely. I don't know, the book might be really nice, and I do like the shorter adventures. I don't think all of them will be good. Maybe one or two will be great, and some others will be OK. I did really like Tales from the Yawning Portal and Ghosts of Saltmarsh, so something along those lines is pretty cool. The fact that this is an adventure makes me think it will be 2 adventures and 2 settings this year, which kind of sucks. I hope some of the adventures are really good.
It was my understanding that there've already been interviews implying (or outright stating? I've not read them) that there would be three campaign setting books this year, based on settings from older editions, and that those were separate from any M:tG crossover content, adventures, or sourcebooks. I'm not certain why so many people are convinced that A) We're only getting four books this year, or B) This book, put together by almost no Wizard staffers and not requiring the company's full attention, is "stealing" one of those book slots.
It seems that a lot of people's anger/frustration is based on some pretty wild assumptions.
That's the video where the three classic settings _and a bunch of other stuff_ is broached. It's an interesting vid if you're interested in "the business of dungeons and dragons" as it's not from the perspective of creators but the business management behind the brand.
What I remember being said was that there were three classic settings being revisited that might all be rolled out between 2021 and 2022. There would also be MtG tie ins. They also spoke of anthology works that would bring a more diverse array of writers than the present "regulars" producing D&D content, a lot of writers who would be new to professional game design. Candlekeep Mysteries is definitely that last thing. A desire to push how D&D is played and some products were in the pipeline speaking to that was also brought up, this pending release could also be under that umbrella.
I think the setting presumption was largely predicated by some fans reading of when prior books were released and some thought that meant a setting would be released this quarter. Add to that WotC D&D annual surveys kept asking participants about what settings they play in (which included legacy worlds yet to be supported in 5e) while not usually asking what sort o adventures they play in, I can see the expectation and maybe the disappointment. How that disappointment is expressed on the internet is something I won't try to explain unless I'm provided billable hours.
But back to not expecting the anthology / new writers / maybe a different play style showing up as a hardcover, which surprised me, that gets to what Sposta's at:
It would be nice if they added a regular 5th book of smaller, actually modular adventures. It wouldn’t really complete with a new Setting, Campaign,* Folio, or “Everything” book. As a collection of short modules it would really just complement all of those. It won’t have any player options, so it would be a DMs’ product. Some short Modules, and a handful of magic items and monsters is not going to compete with a campaign like CoS for sales to DMs, and if you want a folio of monsters this won’t compete with something like Mordenkinen’s. Without player options, it won’t compete with settings or everything books either, or even a book like Volo’s. *(“Adventure” whatever, I don’t care what they call it. If it takes you from levels 1-11+, it’s a campaign.)
It would have some traps and puzzles and maps for the DM looking for stuff to cannibalizes for homebrew, and if we get two or three books like that it would be enough for any DM to mix and match their own string of adventures tied together with their own narratives, and still have untouched material to do it again. That’s exactly why I still use my old 1e/2e modules instead of WotC publish adventures. They’re like apps.
I need a quick dungeon crawl? I got a stack I could use, why not send them In Search of the Unknown? (TSR 9023, aka Module B1)
I need something to bridge the gap until I develop the next arc? How about a madcap funhouse dungeon where up is down and everything can get you killed. Welcome to Château d’ Amberville (TSR 9051 aka X2), and I can even throw the next party into the sequel (TSR 2513) so the players can get both stories.
I need a C plot with a bullet? How about a convenient run in with a local Den of Thieves? (TSR 9515) There are a bunch of short 1 offs in there that I could develop.
I don’t buy the Adventures, they’re too big, too long, and too inflexible for my needs. I get that people love them, but for me, a collection of short adventures is way more appealing. This is the first thing I’ve actually considered preordering, and I haven’t actually read any of the articles yet.
For players who don’t have a library of old modules to use, this could be a super useful book to have.
Agreed, when I returned to 5e I was surprised how much WotC invested in tentpole campaign books ... when I saw how a lot of AL activity and even a lot of DMsGuild (particular Guild Adepts) stuff was also in support of those campaign books, I figured these sorts of "event" books were sort of a business practice conflating the logic of "event" releases in other franchise entertainment (like Marvel movies or World of Warcraft world shaping releases).
Hardcovers as the driving core product are probably established to stay for the lifespan of 5e. Given that, I share Sposta's optimism that maybe Candlekeep Mysteries is a step toward providing DMs and groups who don't want to marry to full length campaigns a tool kit useful for wherever and however they play. I know there's a lot of quibbling on the quality, but I'd say D&D has done good work in provided player options, and monster options, but could use to diversify it's "adventure options" and I think this book sounds like a productive step in that direction.
My dream, supported by the "other products" tease in the vid, would be for there to someday be even more "background" products for world and adventure building rather than tie in dice set and screen packages at high price points.
Am I seriously the only person who thought Ghosts of Saltmarsh was crushingly disappointing? I get the book, I start running a campaign based on the promises of ghosts, pirates, ghost pirates, and High Seas Rollicking Adventure(!!!). What I get is smugglers pulling a scam, swamp people, lizard politics, exactly one scene involving any sort of piratical adventure or seaborne fun, and exactly one scene involving any sort of ghosts.
Ugh. Screw that book.
Very true. I really only use the ship rules and I think I did a one-shot of one of the adventures once. I did like TftYP though.
The ship rules are the only useful things in that book in my opinion. I really hated spending so much money on such a small number of pages worth of material. But it is what it is I guess :/
It would be nice if they added a regular 5th book of smaller, actually modular adventures. It wouldn’t really complete with a new Setting, Campaign,* Folio, or “Everything” book. As a collection of short modules it would really just complement all of those. It won’t have any player options, so it would be a DMs’ product. Some short Modules, and a handful of magic items and monsters is not going to compete with a campaign like CoS for sales to DMs, and if you want a folio of monsters this won’t compete with something like Mordenkinen’s. Without player options, it won’t compete with settings or everything books either, or even a book like Volo’s. *(“Adventure” whatever, I don’t care what they call it. If it takes you from levels 1-11+, it’s a campaign.)
It would have some traps and puzzles and maps for the DM looking for stuff to cannibalizes for homebrew, and if we get two or three books like that it would be enough for any DM to mix and match their own string of adventures tied together with their own narratives, and still have untouched material to do it again. That’s exactly why I still use my old 1e/2e modules instead of WotC publish adventures. They’re like apps.
I need a quick dungeon crawl? I got a stack I could use, why not send them In Search of the Unknown? (TSR 9023, aka Module B1)
I need something to bridge the gap until I develop the next arc? How about a madcap funhouse dungeon where up is down and everything can get you killed. Welcome to Château d’ Amberville (TSR 9051 aka X2), and I can even throw the next party into the sequel (TSR 2513) so the players can get both stories.
I need a C plot with a bullet? How about a convenient run in with a local Den of Thieves? (TSR 9515) There are a bunch of short 1 offs in there that I could develop.
I don’t buy the Adventures, they’re too big, too long, and too inflexible for my needs. I get that people love them, but for me, a collection of short adventures is way more appealing. This is the first thing I’ve actually considered preordering, and I haven’t actually read any of the articles yet.
For players who don’t have a library of old modules to use, this could be a super useful book to have.
This is exactly what I do. I don't use the book campaigns. I also hate the format, it's very unwieldy. I loved the older edition campaign boxed sets like The night below or the tome series or monstrous arcana where they did 3 modules in a row for a series. But I also have a stack of old 1st and 2nd ed modules that are mostly setting agnostic that I can easily work in for subplots or side adventure arcs or even modify to be a part of the main adventure arc.
Am I seriously the only person who thought Ghosts of Saltmarsh was crushingly disappointing? I get the book, I start running a campaign based on the promises of ghosts, pirates, ghost pirates, and High Seas Rollicking Adventure(!!!). What I get is smugglers pulling a scam, swamp people, lizard politics, exactly one scene involving any sort of piratical adventure or seaborne fun, and exactly one scene involving any sort of ghosts.
Ugh. Screw that book.
Very true. I really only use the ship rules and I think I did a one-shot of one of the adventures once. I did like TftYP though.
The ship rules are the only useful things in that book in my opinion. I really hated spending so much money on such a small number of pages worth of material. But it is what it is I guess :/
My favorite things by far were the ship rules and then I realized (after buying it) that they were available on DDB even if you didn't buy the book. Shame.
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Am I seriously the only person who thought Ghosts of Saltmarsh was crushingly disappointing? I get the book, I start running a campaign based on the promises of ghosts, pirates, ghost pirates, and High Seas Rollicking Adventure(!!!). What I get is smugglers pulling a scam, swamp people, lizard politics, exactly one scene involving any sort of piratical adventure or seaborne fun, and exactly one scene involving any sort of ghosts.
Ugh. Screw that book.
Very true. I really only use the ship rules and I think I did a one-shot of one of the adventures once. I did like TftYP though.
The ship rules are the only useful things in that book in my opinion. I really hated spending so much money on such a small number of pages worth of material. But it is what it is I guess :/
My favorite things by far were the ship rules and then I realized (after buying it) that they were available on DDB even if you didn't buy the book. Shame.
The ship rules aren't available if you haven't purchased Ghosts of Saltmarsh.
Very true. I really only use the ship rules and I think I did a one-shot of one of the adventures once. I did like TftYP though.
Please check out my homebrew and give me feedback!
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that article definitely did make it more appealing
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
It was my understanding that there've already been interviews implying (or outright stating? I've not read them) that there would be three campaign setting books this year, based on settings from older editions, and that those were separate from any M:tG crossover content, adventures, or sourcebooks. I'm not certain why so many people are convinced that A) We're only getting four books this year, or B) This book, put together by almost no Wizard staffers and not requiring the company's full attention, is "stealing" one of those book slots.
It seems that a lot of people's anger/frustration is based on some pretty wild assumptions.
Because Wizards has a firm policy, backed by their track record over the last few years, of only releasing four major books in a year. One of the biggest things that they got backlash'd over with older editions was pushing out too many books too quickly and swamping the market - the oh-so-dreaded problem of Book Bloat. They have since committed to a four-a-year schedule of book releases, which in turn allows each book plenty of space to generate its own sales without being crowded out of the market by another Wizards product.
Candlekeep may not have involved a lot of Wizards dev time, but it's still an official Wizards book, and as such it occupies one of the four yearly books Wizards will be willing to release in 2021. One can hope that Wizards breaks its promise and its years-old pattern, but I don't see that happening any time soon. More likely, if Candlekeep was as resource-light as people say it was (I have my doubts; even if other people wrote it, Wizards still had to edit, curate, and assemble it), that resource windfall would've simply been pushed into making another of the books in the normal pipeline a bit fatter. Or, hell, it already did - Explorer's Guide to Wildemount was a much thiccer book than Wizards is normally willing to release, maybe Candlekeep is the other end of that since they had to sink more resources than they usually do into Wildemount.
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As Yurei said about their usual release schedule over the last few years. It also tends to be March/June/September/November (though it might not be Sept I forget). The fact that this book comes out in mid-March makes it seem even more unlikely that they'll cram 4 other books in.
And I think we'll most likely have another adventure (probably September) with the full campaign thing that they do every year, just because they've done that every year since the release of 5e.
And the other two will probably be settings because it ties in with UA and just other theories. I don't really think we'll have a sourcebook, really because of the lack of UA material. Maybe we'll get a monster book next year or in November, but I really, really doubt (and hope) that we don't get a subclass book until they've thoroughly playtested it.
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I wouldn't expect to see a new subclasses/player options book until 2022 at the earliest.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The statement was three settings in development, release dates were not stated.
You can always wait for the reviews if you're not sure. Just sit back a while and let other people playtest it for you.
It would be nice if they added a regular 5th book of smaller, actually modular adventures. It wouldn’t really complete with a new Setting, Campaign,* Folio, or “Everything” book. As a collection of short modules it would really just complement all of those. It won’t have any player options, so it would be a DMs’ product. Some short Modules, and a handful of magic items and monsters is not going to compete with a campaign like CoS for sales to DMs, and if you want a folio of monsters this won’t compete with something like Mordenkinen’s. Without player options, it won’t compete with settings or everything books either, or even a book like Volo’s.
*(“Adventure” whatever, I don’t care what they call it. If it takes you from levels 1-11+, it’s a campaign.)
It would have some traps and puzzles and maps for the DM looking for stuff to cannibalizes for homebrew, and if we get two or three books like that it would be enough for any DM to mix and match their own string of adventures tied together with their own narratives, and still have untouched material to do it again. That’s exactly why I still use my old 1e/2e modules instead of WotC publish adventures. They’re like apps.
I don’t buy the Adventures, they’re too big, too long, and too inflexible for my needs. I get that people love them, but for me, a collection of short adventures is way more appealing. This is the first thing I’ve actually considered preordering, and I haven’t actually read any of the articles yet.
For players who don’t have a library of old modules to use, this could be a super useful book to have.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
I posted that article too a few pages back while the chat tempo was still geared on 4e mechanics as a way to save mystery play for some reason. It's a good write up (though recognizing we're reading transcripted hype from a virtual press conference), and confirmed / reinforced my understanding of the product. I thought the new designers talking about the challenges of designing a short adventure was interesting, and I like the idea that the adventures themselves are very different in tempo, theme etc. I'd argue that a book like this, even if you don't run most of it might be useful for inspiration or hooks to change up an existing campaign.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnUr14aQX4w
That's the video where the three classic settings _and a bunch of other stuff_ is broached. It's an interesting vid if you're interested in "the business of dungeons and dragons" as it's not from the perspective of creators but the business management behind the brand.
What I remember being said was that there were three classic settings being revisited that might all be rolled out between 2021 and 2022. There would also be MtG tie ins. They also spoke of anthology works that would bring a more diverse array of writers than the present "regulars" producing D&D content, a lot of writers who would be new to professional game design. Candlekeep Mysteries is definitely that last thing. A desire to push how D&D is played and some products were in the pipeline speaking to that was also brought up, this pending release could also be under that umbrella.
I think the setting presumption was largely predicated by some fans reading of when prior books were released and some thought that meant a setting would be released this quarter. Add to that WotC D&D annual surveys kept asking participants about what settings they play in (which included legacy worlds yet to be supported in 5e) while not usually asking what sort o adventures they play in, I can see the expectation and maybe the disappointment. How that disappointment is expressed on the internet is something I won't try to explain unless I'm provided billable hours.
But back to not expecting the anthology / new writers / maybe a different play style showing up as a hardcover, which surprised me, that gets to what Sposta's at:
Agreed, when I returned to 5e I was surprised how much WotC invested in tentpole campaign books ... when I saw how a lot of AL activity and even a lot of DMsGuild (particular Guild Adepts) stuff was also in support of those campaign books, I figured these sorts of "event" books were sort of a business practice conflating the logic of "event" releases in other franchise entertainment (like Marvel movies or World of Warcraft world shaping releases).
Hardcovers as the driving core product are probably established to stay for the lifespan of 5e. Given that, I share Sposta's optimism that maybe Candlekeep Mysteries is a step toward providing DMs and groups who don't want to marry to full length campaigns a tool kit useful for wherever and however they play. I know there's a lot of quibbling on the quality, but I'd say D&D has done good work in provided player options, and monster options, but could use to diversify it's "adventure options" and I think this book sounds like a productive step in that direction.
My dream, supported by the "other products" tease in the vid, would be for there to someday be even more "background" products for world and adventure building rather than tie in dice set and screen packages at high price points.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
The ship rules are the only useful things in that book in my opinion. I really hated spending so much money on such a small number of pages worth of material. But it is what it is I guess :/
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
This is exactly what I do. I don't use the book campaigns. I also hate the format, it's very unwieldy. I loved the older edition campaign boxed sets like The night below or the tome series or monstrous arcana where they did 3 modules in a row for a series. But I also have a stack of old 1st and 2nd ed modules that are mostly setting agnostic that I can easily work in for subplots or side adventure arcs or even modify to be a part of the main adventure arc.
My favorite things by far were the ship rules and then I realized (after buying it) that they were available on DDB even if you didn't buy the book. Shame.
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The more I read about this the more I'm absolutely positive I will never buy it. Smh.
Good for you?
The ship rules aren't available if you haven't purchased Ghosts of Saltmarsh.
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think he's talking about the vehicle stats. oddly enough the vehicles in GoS are open to everyone, but not the vehicles in Acq. Inc or baldur's gate.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
Yeah, that's what I meant. It is kind of weird though.
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You must not know that WotC and the creators of Dragonlance are in a big legal battle and we will most likely never see Dragonlance stuff ever again.
The case was withdrawn from court weeks ago and there’s a new dragon lance novel set to come out in late July.