I will continue to hope beyond hope for a Greyhawk book, even just a module with Greyhawk as the default setting. But I know it'll never happen...
Ghosts of Saltmarsh happened.
Yes it did, and I can live with just that (plus about half of TftYP), but I will still dream of a new World of Greyhawk Boxed Set or a revamp of the Slave Lords storyline.
Bsed on the recentish test subclasses/races it could be Dragonlance or DarkSun. As I remember a lot of Dragonlike creatures in DarkSun original adventures and both the power wizardey sorts turned dragonish when they got to legendary powers. Also all the psionics. Admittedly I would rather they wait until they do a real psi class to come up with Darksun but they don't seem to be pushing for a psi. I hope for Spelljammer or Dragonlance because I've had some great campaigns in both those worlds and moving them into 5th ed would add some of those same narrative possibilities.
given the (still) pending lawsuit with Hickman &Weiss I wouldnt hold my breath for a DL book. But, a Spelljammer may be likely (especially given the popularity of Starfinder)
given the (still) pending lawsuit with Hickman &Weiss I wouldnt hold my breath for a DL book. But, a Spelljammer may be likely (especially given the popularity of Starfinder)
The suit is not still pending. It was dismissed without prejudice per plaintiff's request last month.
Following up on the press of the case Weiss on twitter confirms her parties dropped the suit and encourages DL fans to stay tuned for exciting announcement in a few weeks. That could be the new book announcement or it could be something else but there should be some DL news shortly.
Again, not fanboying, I'm not excited about a DL treatment in 5e in stead of an established world that's actually "different" (Planescape, Jammer, Dark Sun) from traditional Tolkien DNA; but the likelihood is there.
Some folks who don't follow litigation cling to the "without prejudice". At this stage in litigation a dismissal with prejudice would basically be the Court saying "Never stink up my court with this issue again." Without at this timing in a civil case's life cycle basically means something has happened between the parties that means they want this case to go away. Can it be refiled? Sure, but that would take time.
If it is Dragonlance, I'm sort of dreading these forums for the next few months based on how the possibility dominated this thread and the form that dominion took.
given the (still) pending lawsuit with Hickman &Weiss I wouldnt hold my breath for a DL book.
It was dismissed without prejudice. Means it could be refiled, but that seems unlikely as Margaret Weis tweeted about exciting news in the weeks to come.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
If it is Dragonlance, I'm sort of dreading these forums for the next few months based on how the possibility dominated this thread and the form that dominion took.
I mean, you can replace Dragonlance with Dark Sun and that would still be true albeit based on a couple of other threads. :p
And if it's Planescape my excitement for what we might get will only be matched by my dread for what we might get, so...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
It occurred to me today that the place where the dragon-themed subclasses would really fit would be in a new Draconomicon. and also I think we're probably about due for a new monster book anyway.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
It occurred to me today that the place where the dragon-themed subclasses would really fit would be in a new Draconomicon. and also I think we're probably about due for a new monster book anyway.
If it lacks DRAGONRAGE Barbarians, I'm flipping the table and dismissing the Draconomicon as Dunderdunce's Draconic Ditherings
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
It occurred to me today that the place where the dragon-themed subclasses would really fit would be in a new Draconomicon. and also I think we're probably about due for a new monster book anyway.
If it lacks DRAGONRAGE Barbarians, I'm flipping the table and dismissing the Draconomicon as Dunderdunce's Draconic Ditherings
It wouldn't have subclasses because it would be a monster book like Volo's or Mordenkainenen's.
It occurred to me today that the place where the dragon-themed subclasses would really fit would be in a new Draconomicon. and also I think we're probably about due for a new monster book anyway.
I've wondered about this, given that when the Sapphire Dragon was released as a one-off special, word was that other Crystal Dragons were coming. Don't know enough about DL to know if that would apply to DL as well.
It occurred to me today that the place where the dragon-themed subclasses would really fit would be in a new Draconomicon. and also I think we're probably about due for a new monster book anyway.
If it lacks DRAGONRAGE Barbarians, I'm flipping the table and dismissing the Draconomicon as Dunderdunce's Draconic Ditherings
It wouldn't have subclasses because it would be a monster book like Volo's or Mordenkainenen's.
The Draconomicons typically weren’t just monster books. It was a book that pertained to all manner of dragon themed content. They had new dragon themed characters classes, new lore content for dragons in general, new spells, new magic items, new dragon and draconic creatures, sections on dragon religion, cults, and organizations, new PC race or subrace options, more options to build unique dragon encounters, and a lot of fluff pertaining to how one could use dragons in various ways in a campaign.
They could make a dragon book with only monster, but it wouldn’t really be a true Draconomicon then.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
I would love more fey options in 5e. The fey with the highest CR are the Eladrin from Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes, with a CR of 10. We seriously need higher level options for fey monsters, like Archfey and other powerful faerie folk that can be used to fight against the party.
We need more options for several creature types. More Dragons, more Fey, more Celestials, More Oozes, more Plants, honestly more everything.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
What would be even better than big monster books would be a truly robust and useful set of tools for creating one's own monsters. Rather than a Monster Manual, make a Monster Workshop, and build some of the classic D&D critters in said workshop with said rules as a guideline.
Everybody knows by now that Wizards doesn't even remotely follow its own bare-bones, over-basic monster creation rules for building monsters - they just play it loose and go with their guts because they have the game and system experience to do it that way. But forcing themselves to put together a real, systematic approach for building monsters and then showing players how to use it would empower players so much more than simply another bag of prepackaged monster treats for people to use once, then get bored with. It's one of the oldest saws out there - give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to make his own CR 8 Dire Barracuda, he can feast on his party for the rest of his life.
What would be even better than big monster books would be a truly robust and useful set of tools for creating one's own monsters. Rather than a Monster Manual, make a Monster Workshop, and build some of the classic D&D critters in said workshop with said rules as a guideline.
Everybody knows by now that Wizards doesn't even remotely follow its own bare-bones, over-basic monster creation rules for building monsters - they just play it loose and go with their guts because they have the game and system experience to do it that way. But forcing themselves to put together a real, systematic approach for building monsters and then showing players how to use it would empower players so much more than simply another bag of prepackaged monster treats for people to use once, then get bored with. It's one of the oldest saws out there - give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to make his own CR 8 Dire Barracuda, he can feast on his party for the rest of his life.
If they're robust enough, they could be used to recalculate a few of the more egregiously miscast (CR-wise) monsters in the MM and other books, but in fairness it's hard to draft a guideline for monsters with some of the funkier abilities - intellect devourers, rust monsters etc. - and the same would be true for homebrew monsters with creative qualities. Sometimes gut trumps ratio. And the way a DM uses a monster and the context they surround it with can easily swing an effective CR by 2-3 in either direction anyway.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
What would be even better than big monster books would be a truly robust and useful set of tools for creating one's own monsters. Rather than a Monster Manual, make a Monster Workshop, and build some of the classic D&D critters in said workshop with said rules as a guideline.
Trying to rebuild standard critters under a critter generator will always discover that the point budgets don't add up. This is not to say that a critter generator wouldn't have uses (I've considered a random demon generator), and it's possible to build '+X CR' templates, which would be super useful for tweaking monsters, but having GMed systems that use a build system for enemies, it's a lot of work and you usually wind up wanting a bunch of pregens anyway.
What would be even better than big monster books would be a truly robust and useful set of tools for creating one's own monsters. Rather than a Monster Manual, make a Monster Workshop, and build some of the classic D&D critters in said workshop with said rules as a guideline.
Everybody knows by now that Wizards doesn't even remotely follow its own bare-bones, over-basic monster creation rules for building monsters - they just play it loose and go with their guts because they have the game and system experience to do it that way. But forcing themselves to put together a real, systematic approach for building monsters and then showing players how to use it would empower players so much more than simply another bag of prepackaged monster treats for people to use once, then get bored with. It's one of the oldest saws out there - give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to make his own CR 8 Dire Barracuda, he can feast on his party for the rest of his life.
My ideal scenario would be a book series of about 12 volumes for each monster type (a couple being combined like Beasts and Plants, and adding Oozes to either Monstrosities or Aberrations) that act similar to a Draconomicon (adding various different creature type themed content for both players and DMs) with the last chapter of each book being dedicated to creating your own monsters of that type and having various options and advice for doing so.
What would be even better than big monster books would be a truly robust and useful set of tools for creating one's own monsters. Rather than a Monster Manual, make a Monster Workshop, and build some of the classic D&D critters in said workshop with said rules as a guideline.
Trying to rebuild standard critters under a critter generator will always discover that the point budgets don't add up. This is not to say that a critter generator wouldn't have uses (I've considered a random demon generator), and it's possible to build '+X CR' templates, which would be super useful for tweaking monsters, but having GMed systems that use a build system for enemies, it's a lot of work and you usually wind up wanting a bunch of pregens anyway.
Lists of pregens are always useful, but right now we're in the opposite end of things - we've got nothing but pregens and the weakest, loosest, sloppiest "Ehhhhhh...this is maybe about right" lame-ass generator system one could do. The monster generation rules in the DMG are so weak as to be almost nonexistent, and trying to assign or even judge a CR is worse than useless. Hell, the idea of Challenge Rating itself is badly flawed - it's only there because Wizards needed something to force-feed people who're so bad at judging encounters that they need a spreadsheet of potential rektness before they can figure something out.
There's always gonna be at least some degree of fudging things and accounting for a specific group at a specific table, but man. The DMG generation rules are so weak that even as a fairly inexperienced DM I ignored them almost completely when creating critters. Just used the tables to tweak HP formulas here and there and then just assigned whatever CR the table told me to.
Something more rigorous, and a means of at least estimating what certain, more common critter powers do to threat level would be nice.
A book about encounters and monsters that actually makes sense?
Okay maybe a bit too far, but perhaps making tiers for monsters so there's a version of low level such as skeletons as is and lycanthropes with resistance and not immunity to normal weapons maybe going to medium to high level to explain skeletons have resistance to most normal weapons except bludgeoning?
As far as monsters go, my biggest issue with 5e monsters is that they're super boring. I don't need the giant pile of effects 3e was prone to, but giving each monster one or two special tricks would add a lot of flavor.
As far as monsters go, my biggest issue with 5e monsters is that they're super boring. I don't need the giant pile of effects 3e was prone to, but giving each monster one or two special tricks would add a lot of flavor.
Agreed. In case you haven’t seen it, this might be useful to you as it is for many of us:
Yes it did, and I can live with just that (plus about half of TftYP), but I will still dream of a new World of Greyhawk Boxed Set or a revamp of the Slave Lords storyline.
Bsed on the recentish test subclasses/races it could be Dragonlance or DarkSun. As I remember a lot of Dragonlike creatures in DarkSun original adventures and both the power wizardey sorts turned dragonish when they got to legendary powers. Also all the psionics. Admittedly I would rather they wait until they do a real psi class to come up with Darksun but they don't seem to be pushing for a psi. I hope for Spelljammer or Dragonlance because I've had some great campaigns in both those worlds and moving them into 5th ed would add some of those same narrative possibilities.
given the (still) pending lawsuit with Hickman &Weiss I wouldnt hold my breath for a DL book.
But, a Spelljammer may be likely (especially given the popularity of Starfinder)
The suit is not still pending. It was dismissed without prejudice per plaintiff's request last month.
https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2020/12/dd-dragonlance-lawsuit-against-wotc-dismissed-is-krynn-in-the-cards.html
Following up on the press of the case Weiss on twitter confirms her parties dropped the suit and encourages DL fans to stay tuned for exciting announcement in a few weeks. That could be the new book announcement or it could be something else but there should be some DL news shortly.
Again, not fanboying, I'm not excited about a DL treatment in 5e in stead of an established world that's actually "different" (Planescape, Jammer, Dark Sun) from traditional Tolkien DNA; but the likelihood is there.
Some folks who don't follow litigation cling to the "without prejudice". At this stage in litigation a dismissal with prejudice would basically be the Court saying "Never stink up my court with this issue again." Without at this timing in a civil case's life cycle basically means something has happened between the parties that means they want this case to go away. Can it be refiled? Sure, but that would take time.
If it is Dragonlance, I'm sort of dreading these forums for the next few months based on how the possibility dominated this thread and the form that dominion took.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
It was dismissed without prejudice. Means it could be refiled, but that seems unlikely as Margaret Weis tweeted about exciting news in the weeks to come.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I mean, you can replace Dragonlance with Dark Sun and that would still be true albeit based on a couple of other threads. :p
And if it's Planescape my excitement for what we might get will only be matched by my dread for what we might get, so...
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
It occurred to me today that the place where the dragon-themed subclasses would really fit would be in a new Draconomicon. and also I think we're probably about due for a new monster book anyway.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
If it lacks DRAGONRAGE Barbarians, I'm flipping the table and dismissing the Draconomicon as Dunderdunce's Draconic Ditherings
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
It wouldn't have subclasses because it would be a monster book like Volo's or Mordenkainenen's.
I have a weird sense of humor.
I also make maps.(That's a link)
I've wondered about this, given that when the Sapphire Dragon was released as a one-off special, word was that other Crystal Dragons were coming. Don't know enough about DL to know if that would apply to DL as well.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
Check your entitlements here. | Support Ticket LInk
The Draconomicons typically weren’t just monster books. It was a book that pertained to all manner of dragon themed content. They had new dragon themed characters classes, new lore content for dragons in general, new spells, new magic items, new dragon and draconic creatures, sections on dragon religion, cults, and organizations, new PC race or subrace options, more options to build unique dragon encounters, and a lot of fluff pertaining to how one could use dragons in various ways in a campaign.
They could make a dragon book with only monster, but it wouldn’t really be a true Draconomicon then.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
We need more options for several creature types. More Dragons, more Fey, more Celestials, More Oozes, more Plants, honestly more everything.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
What would be even better than big monster books would be a truly robust and useful set of tools for creating one's own monsters. Rather than a Monster Manual, make a Monster Workshop, and build some of the classic D&D critters in said workshop with said rules as a guideline.
Everybody knows by now that Wizards doesn't even remotely follow its own bare-bones, over-basic monster creation rules for building monsters - they just play it loose and go with their guts because they have the game and system experience to do it that way. But forcing themselves to put together a real, systematic approach for building monsters and then showing players how to use it would empower players so much more than simply another bag of prepackaged monster treats for people to use once, then get bored with. It's one of the oldest saws out there - give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to make his own CR 8 Dire Barracuda, he can feast on his party for the rest of his life.
Please do not contact or message me.
If they're robust enough, they could be used to recalculate a few of the more egregiously miscast (CR-wise) monsters in the MM and other books, but in fairness it's hard to draft a guideline for monsters with some of the funkier abilities - intellect devourers, rust monsters etc. - and the same would be true for homebrew monsters with creative qualities. Sometimes gut trumps ratio. And the way a DM uses a monster and the context they surround it with can easily swing an effective CR by 2-3 in either direction anyway.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Trying to rebuild standard critters under a critter generator will always discover that the point budgets don't add up. This is not to say that a critter generator wouldn't have uses (I've considered a random demon generator), and it's possible to build '+X CR' templates, which would be super useful for tweaking monsters, but having GMed systems that use a build system for enemies, it's a lot of work and you usually wind up wanting a bunch of pregens anyway.
My ideal scenario would be a book series of about 12 volumes for each monster type (a couple being combined like Beasts and Plants, and adding Oozes to either Monstrosities or Aberrations) that act similar to a Draconomicon (adding various different creature type themed content for both players and DMs) with the last chapter of each book being dedicated to creating your own monsters of that type and having various options and advice for doing so.
A pipe dream really but yeah.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
Lists of pregens are always useful, but right now we're in the opposite end of things - we've got nothing but pregens and the weakest, loosest, sloppiest "Ehhhhhh...this is maybe about right" lame-ass generator system one could do. The monster generation rules in the DMG are so weak as to be almost nonexistent, and trying to assign or even judge a CR is worse than useless. Hell, the idea of Challenge Rating itself is badly flawed - it's only there because Wizards needed something to force-feed people who're so bad at judging encounters that they need a spreadsheet of potential rektness before they can figure something out.
There's always gonna be at least some degree of fudging things and accounting for a specific group at a specific table, but man. The DMG generation rules are so weak that even as a fairly inexperienced DM I ignored them almost completely when creating critters. Just used the tables to tweak HP formulas here and there and then just assigned whatever CR the table told me to.
Something more rigorous, and a means of at least estimating what certain, more common critter powers do to threat level would be nice.
Please do not contact or message me.
A book about encounters and monsters that actually makes sense?
Okay maybe a bit too far, but perhaps making tiers for monsters so there's a version of low level such as skeletons as is and lycanthropes with resistance and not immunity to normal weapons maybe going to medium to high level to explain skeletons have resistance to most normal weapons except bludgeoning?
As far as monsters go, my biggest issue with 5e monsters is that they're super boring. I don't need the giant pile of effects 3e was prone to, but giving each monster one or two special tricks would add a lot of flavor.
Agreed. In case you haven’t seen it, this might be useful to you as it is for many of us:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y_zl8WWaSyI
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting