If your shield is worn strapped to your arm there is really no reason why you couldn’t use that hand to load the crossbow bolt. Yes I know that’s not RAW. But it makes sense.
Yeah, but the conversation is about RAW. The rules in 5e are explicit when it comes to shields. The hand attached to the arm the shield is on is not available for ANYTHING until the shield is removed (and it can't be dropped). The only exception to that rule involves stuff like Warcaster, Shield Master, or a Holy Symbol on a shield. But that stuff is not martial combat.
If your shield is worn strapped to your arm there is really no reason why you couldn’t use that hand to load the crossbow bolt. Yes I know that’s not RAW. But it makes sense.
Yeah, but the conversation is about RAW. The rules in 5e are explicit when it comes to shields. The hand attached to the arm the shield is on is not available for ANYTHING until the shield is removed (and it can't be dropped). The only exception to that rule involves stuff like Warcaster, Shield Master, or a Holy Symbol on a shield. But that stuff is not martial combat.
Let's recognize that 5e is actually not depriving players from an IRL tradition of warriors and combatants using their "shield hand" for anything that would constitute an action in game terms. At minimum you're rupturing the protective integrity by using your free hand and attendant shield arm (and attention otherwise utilized in utilizing your shield) for something other than defense/AC. That's presuming your hand is as available as Beardsinger's proposing, and again, show me a shield wearer that does that. Yes 5e isn't full bore tactical realism, but if we're getting to the point where we're saying a shield hand can be used to ready a crossbow, you might as well say you can dual wield with a shield.
That said, there are methods to load a semi automatic handgun one handed that have been integrated in the use of ballistic shields: 1.) if not already in slide lock use a hard holster or a firm duty belt to pull the weapon into slide lock using rear sights to gain purchase on the slide, dropped racked weapon into holster, 2.) pop mag in, draw weapon and trip slide release. If it's drilled you can almost get to a tempo approximating a two handed reload. I don't know how viable this would be for a hand crossbow, as I think you need the bolt loaded in before you set the springs, so you're inverting steps 1 and 2 in the handgun drill (also not sure what the D&D equivalent of Kydex would be for the holster). However, if one were to be implement in a game I'd say it'd have to be done as a shield and hand crossbow feat to accommodate the manual gymnastics that are not commonly and definitely not intuitively drilled in regular weapons handling. I mean if you really want that to be your "thing" go for it.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
If your shield is worn strapped to your arm there is really no reason why you couldn’t use that hand to load the crossbow bolt. Yes I know that’s not RAW. But it makes sense.
Historically, the vast majority of shields were never strapped to the forearm. And even the ones that were still also occupied the hand as well.
Anyone in my game who is planning their build around dropping things to get around the action cost of stowing just might find themselves in the following situations:
fighting in shallow water with a strong current
fighting in a spooky graveyard with waist-high, vision-blocking mist
fighting on an incline
fighting grabby little monsters who would love a free rapier
fighting on a rickety rope bridge with gaps between the steps
And so on and so forth. I'm totally fine letting someone drop their blade for a bow if they're caught with nothing to do, but if you plan to do this stuff as a rule? I'm going to make it cost something. Maybe not every fight, but it will come up.
You can’t just simply take that stuff out in the PCs like that. It’s an issue with the player, not the character. You gotta talk to the player about the problem.
Of course, if they keep that crap up I can’t be blamed if they end up with a cursed Rapier that they can’t get rid of and gives them disadvantage on all attacks made with any other weapon.
If your shield is worn strapped to your arm there is really no reason why you couldn’t use that hand to load the crossbow bolt. Yes I know that’s not RAW. But it makes sense.
Historically, the vast majority of shields were never strapped to the forearm. And even the ones that were still also occupied the hand as well.
Yes I know, but so far the arguement has been that the shield is not held in the hand but strapped to the forearm which is why it takes a round to remove or put on.
If your shield is worn strapped to your arm there is really no reason why you couldn’t use that hand to load the crossbow bolt. Yes I know that’s not RAW. But it makes sense.
Yeah, but the conversation is about RAW. The rules in 5e are explicit when it comes to shields. The hand attached to the arm the shield is on is not available for ANYTHING until the shield is removed (and it can't be dropped). The only exception to that rule involves stuff like Warcaster, Shield Master, or a Holy Symbol on a shield. But that stuff is not martial combat.
Let's recognize that 5e is actually not depriving players from an IRL tradition of warriors and combatants using their "shield hand" for anything that would constitute an action in game terms. At minimum you're rupturing the protective integrity by using your free hand and attendant shield arm (and attention otherwise utilized in utilizing your shield) for something other than defense/AC. That's presuming your hand is as available as Beardsinger's proposing, and again, show me a shield wearer that does that. Yes 5e isn't full bore tactical realism, but if we're getting to the point where we're saying a shield hand can be used to ready a crossbow, you might as well say you can dual wield with a shield.
It isn't real life and has nothing to do with real life - you have Clerics praying to gods that answer, you have wizards throwing out fireballs, druids that do a lot more than just run around naked hugging trees and so on. So it is pointless comparing the rules of a fantasy game with what happens in real life. There are a number of options that allow you to use the shield hand in game such as war caster allows you to perform the somatic components of a spell. I'm not saying that everyone should be able to - but allowing a caster class to do it when they don't even start off with shield prof and not an EK who has spent huge amounts of time training in weapons and armour seems a bit silly. And yes I know it is costing them an asi to be able to do it, but from a common sense perspective, there isn't any.
If your shield is worn strapped to your arm there is really no reason why you couldn’t use that hand to load the crossbow bolt. Yes I know that’s not RAW. But it makes sense.
Yeah, but the conversation is about RAW. The rules in 5e are explicit when it comes to shields. The hand attached to the arm the shield is on is not available for ANYTHING until the shield is removed (and it can't be dropped). The only exception to that rule involves stuff like Warcaster, Shield Master, or a Holy Symbol on a shield. But that stuff is not martial combat.
Let's recognize that 5e is actually not depriving players from an IRL tradition of warriors and combatants using their "shield hand" for anything that would constitute an action in game terms. At minimum you're rupturing the protective integrity by using your free hand and attendant shield arm (and attention otherwise utilized in utilizing your shield) for something other than defense/AC. That's presuming your hand is as available as Beardsinger's proposing, and again, show me a shield wearer that does that. Yes 5e isn't full bore tactical realism, but if we're getting to the point where we're saying a shield hand can be used to ready a crossbow, you might as well say you can dual wield with a shield.
It isn't real life and has nothing to do with real life - you have Clerics praying to gods that answer, you have wizards throwing out fireballs, druids that do a lot more than just run around naked hugging trees and so on. So it is pointless comparing the rules of a fantasy game with what happens in real life. There are a number of options that allow you to use the shield hand in game such as war caster allows you to perform the somatic components of a spell. I'm not saying that everyone should be able to - but allowing a caster class to do it when they don't even start off with shield prof and not an EK who has spent huge amounts of time training in weapons and armour seems a bit silly. And yes I know it is costing them an asi to be able to do it, but from a common sense perspective, there isn't any.
I don't think the War Caster's ability to perform spells with somatic components while armed (sometimes with weapon and shield where the grasp of the shield hand may or may not be occupied, sometimes dual wielding where the grasps of both hands are definitely occupied) is to be interpreted that the War Caster is presumably somehow performing the hand gestures D&D magic is traditionally thought to employ. I think a more likely explanation is that the somatic components of a War Caster evolve into a gestural language incorporating the fighter's arms, maybe muscle flexion and working of tension in kinetics sympathetic with martial maneuvers. After all, somatic does actually denote "the body" not just finger twiddling. So I don't think War Caster grants precedent for shield hand reloads. I don't know of any other option in game that allows a character to use a shield hand in game ... largely because none of my largely common sensical players have ever asked to do it. If you have anything else besides what I think is a misapplicaiton of War Caster, I'd be happy to see it.
Regardless, in the part of my post you omitted, I offered a logic to entertain how a one handed crossbow reload while shield wielding could work. We agree I think that such an action could become a feat. However, while I'm not sure about the common sense standard, and I'm definitely not one to insist on character builds for maximum mechanical advantage, a feat so you could do this one thing for one weapon _hand crossbow_ is a big commitment of character development resources.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
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Yeah, but the conversation is about RAW. The rules in 5e are explicit when it comes to shields. The hand attached to the arm the shield is on is not available for ANYTHING until the shield is removed (and it can't be dropped). The only exception to that rule involves stuff like Warcaster, Shield Master, or a Holy Symbol on a shield. But that stuff is not martial combat.
Let's recognize that 5e is actually not depriving players from an IRL tradition of warriors and combatants using their "shield hand" for anything that would constitute an action in game terms. At minimum you're rupturing the protective integrity by using your free hand and attendant shield arm (and attention otherwise utilized in utilizing your shield) for something other than defense/AC. That's presuming your hand is as available as Beardsinger's proposing, and again, show me a shield wearer that does that. Yes 5e isn't full bore tactical realism, but if we're getting to the point where we're saying a shield hand can be used to ready a crossbow, you might as well say you can dual wield with a shield.
That said, there are methods to load a semi automatic handgun one handed that have been integrated in the use of ballistic shields: 1.) if not already in slide lock use a hard holster or a firm duty belt to pull the weapon into slide lock using rear sights to gain purchase on the slide, dropped racked weapon into holster, 2.) pop mag in, draw weapon and trip slide release. If it's drilled you can almost get to a tempo approximating a two handed reload. I don't know how viable this would be for a hand crossbow, as I think you need the bolt loaded in before you set the springs, so you're inverting steps 1 and 2 in the handgun drill (also not sure what the D&D equivalent of Kydex would be for the holster). However, if one were to be implement in a game I'd say it'd have to be done as a shield and hand crossbow feat to accommodate the manual gymnastics that are not commonly and definitely not intuitively drilled in regular weapons handling. I mean if you really want that to be your "thing" go for it.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Historically, the vast majority of shields were never strapped to the forearm. And even the ones that were still also occupied the hand as well.
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You can’t just simply take that stuff out in the PCs like that. It’s an issue with the player, not the character. You gotta talk to the player about the problem.
Of course, if they keep that crap up I can’t be blamed if they end up with a cursed Rapier that they can’t get rid of and gives them disadvantage on all attacks made with any other weapon.
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Yes I know, but so far the arguement has been that the shield is not held in the hand but strapped to the forearm which is why it takes a round to remove or put on.
It isn't real life and has nothing to do with real life - you have Clerics praying to gods that answer, you have wizards throwing out fireballs, druids that do a lot more than just run around naked hugging trees and so on. So it is pointless comparing the rules of a fantasy game with what happens in real life. There are a number of options that allow you to use the shield hand in game such as war caster allows you to perform the somatic components of a spell. I'm not saying that everyone should be able to - but allowing a caster class to do it when they don't even start off with shield prof and not an EK who has spent huge amounts of time training in weapons and armour seems a bit silly. And yes I know it is costing them an asi to be able to do it, but from a common sense perspective, there isn't any.
I don't think the War Caster's ability to perform spells with somatic components while armed (sometimes with weapon and shield where the grasp of the shield hand may or may not be occupied, sometimes dual wielding where the grasps of both hands are definitely occupied) is to be interpreted that the War Caster is presumably somehow performing the hand gestures D&D magic is traditionally thought to employ. I think a more likely explanation is that the somatic components of a War Caster evolve into a gestural language incorporating the fighter's arms, maybe muscle flexion and working of tension in kinetics sympathetic with martial maneuvers. After all, somatic does actually denote "the body" not just finger twiddling. So I don't think War Caster grants precedent for shield hand reloads. I don't know of any other option in game that allows a character to use a shield hand in game ... largely because none of my largely common sensical players have ever asked to do it. If you have anything else besides what I think is a misapplicaiton of War Caster, I'd be happy to see it.
Regardless, in the part of my post you omitted, I offered a logic to entertain how a one handed crossbow reload while shield wielding could work. We agree I think that such an action could become a feat. However, while I'm not sure about the common sense standard, and I'm definitely not one to insist on character builds for maximum mechanical advantage, a feat so you could do this one thing for one weapon _hand crossbow_ is a big commitment of character development resources.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.