Just came to say I didn't support archiving old warforge, negative attribute races and other "legacy" content. I don't support it now.
While I intend to keep my subscription due to AL being the place where most of my gaming happens, I can no longer in good conscience advertise DDB.
Everyone here has a right to be upset at these changes. Especially the idea that *each individual person has to make their own homebrew fix b/c of the copyright system blocking it from being shared*.
I don't know made this choice, but it's very anti-consumer and putting it out here this close to release is even less appreciated.
I play hybrid games. Some players are digital, others physical.
My physical players often use spell cards, which hasn’t been an issue when quickly trying to pull up the digital version to read the wording and use of said spells. They don’t want to go virtual, and this is going to have them dig their heels in more towards making that change, since they will lose control of the version they want to play.
Yet, this change basically requires that they do go virtual in order to maintain consistency, because their version of spells will be different than the virtual players, especially if we need to make rulings on spell wording in various situations, or how one spell interacts with another.
A toggle to let people select the 2014 and/or 2024 version of spells/items will give players the flexibility they need to play with the rulesets that they want to play with, so people are able to change if, as, and when they want to. Taking away people’s choices does not earn more customers.
Just came to say I didn't support archiving old warforge, negative attribute races and other "legacy" content. I don't support it now.
While I intend to keep my subscription due to AL being the place where most of my gaming happens, I can no longer in good conscience advertise DDB.
Everyone here has a right to be upset at these changes. Especially the idea that *each individual person has to make their own homebrew fix b/c of the copyright system blocking it from being shared*.
I don't know made this choice, but it's very anti-consumer and putting it out here this close to release is even less appreciated.
I'm not sure I'm following... You didn't support "Legacy" before but now you want the 2014 rules to be available as "Legacy"? Am I understanding you correctly?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Grant K. Smith A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
There is maybe one or two posters defending these changes to a large amount of people who are extremely upset. They have replied on almost every single page of this thread saying that what we are losing in this update is trivial and this is only causing more people to get upset and angry.
I have worked in a customer facing role myself and I understand the perspective "People who have negative opinions are generally more vocal about their displeasure than those who are okay with something." but it's wrong to imply that this is the case with the community here given the circumstances. The vast majority of public opinion about these changes on facebook, reddit, here, twitter and elsewhere is hugely negative. No one I know is happy with this update. We are losing access to content we paid for and it's going to break subclasses from books we purchased.
Most of the people coming onto these forums to complain about the changes have an extremely low post count because they are not the type of people who normally complain. For a fair number of people it's their first time posting here. These changes have such a large negative impact for Dungeon Masters running games and their players that people who normally are happy with dndbeyond are coming here to give feedback in a desperate attempt to get these changes reverted or they will be unsubscribing from the dndbeyond service. This decision isn't being made lightly for these people as they have spent hundreds of dollars, pounds or euros on this site.
You are obviously talking about me since I am the only person who is not angry and who has posted on nearly every page. Which post of mine stated that what you feel you lost is trivial? Which post was even incendiary? I have only been communicating an opinion on the topic of the changes and replying directly to those who have tagged me, excluding this post (which refers to me) and my first post in this thread.
I do not believe the impact is universally trivial and have actually spent a lot of time encouraging people to voice to what degree this change has negatively impacted them. I myself am not very impacted because my review of videos covering the changes are largely beneficial, I am getting these beneficial updates free of charge, and I had intended to change to the 2024 rules as soon as my DMs choose to switch. Even if my DMs elected to stay in the 2014 rules however, there is a relatively small impact to me and my tables because we do not use every spell or every magic item, and in fact, most spells and magic items do not get used at the tables I play at; the effort that would go into homebrewing those items and spells would be fairly minimal. Hardliner 2014 players feel very differently and that is just as valid as my feelings on it. No more, no less.
Instead of just offering legacy versions of the spells, would every gm need to make there own version hundreds, if not thousands of just a single spell.
The cost for each duplicate may be small, but it's not nothing, and if enough people do your crazy workaround, it can start to add up where it could all be avoided by just adding a flag.
It literally won't be impossible, as stated now by 2 separate official statements and breakdowns on the how and why. I don't understand how you people can read something that definitively says "Here's how to do the thing you want to do" and so confidently scream "IT'S IMPOSSIBLE! YOU'RE RUINING/TAKING AWAY EVERYTHING!". But, then again, I've been silently watching this community do it since I was 12.
Edit: Just making a note here to expect the future of this conversation to keep repeating "taking away what I paid for" and "removing content" despite neither of those things happening. Someone already responded with a "pay an intern overtime to make it work" and that tells me all I need to know about you folks.
I think that maybe what you and several others who are on the side of “nothing is being taken away” have forgotten is that the DnDBeyond Character Creator tool does not currently (as far as I’ve ever been able to tell) offer a way to customize available spells, number of spells allowed, or whether or not a spell is “always prepared”. Any spell that is “Always Prepared” is stuck there and cannot be replaced and adding a homebrew copy of the 2014 version will, according to DnDBeyond, count against spells known or prepared. As far as I can tell there is no workaround to this problem and so their proposed “solution” of just homebrewing those spells and replacing them on our character sheets doesn’t even work the way they’ve proposed.
Additionally, after the update, the homebrew tool that allows us to copy a spell to make a homebrew version of a spell, will presumably point at the new version of the spell. Most of us don’t have the book yet, so we can’t look at the 300 (? 400?) ish 2024 spells and compare them to the 2014 versions to determine whether they need to be copied, so again their proposed solution falls short of being workable even for the use case that they themselves proposed even IF the spell picker worked in a way that would actually allow us to replace all of our own spells with homebrew legacy copies.
It literally won't be impossible, as stated now by 2 separate official statements and breakdowns on the how and why. I don't understand how you people can read something that definitively says "Here's how to do the thing you want to do" and so confidently scream "IT'S IMPOSSIBLE! YOU'RE RUINING/TAKING AWAY EVERYTHING!". But, then again, I've been silently watching this community do it since I was 12.
Edit: Just making a note here to expect the future of this conversation to keep repeating "taking away what I paid for" and "removing content" despite neither of those things happening. Someone already responded with a "pay an intern overtime to make it work" and that tells me all I need to know about you folks.
I think that maybe what you and several others who are on the side of “nothing is being taken away” have forgotten is that the DnDBeyond Character Creator tool does not currently (as far as I’ve ever been able to tell) offer a way to customize available spells, number of spells allowed, or whether or not a spell is “always prepared”. Any spell that is “Always Prepared” is stuck there and cannot be replaced and adding a homebrew copy of the 2014 version will, according to DnDBeyond, count against spells known or prepared. As far as I can tell there is no workaround to this problem and so their proposed “solution” of just homebrewing those spells and replacing them on our character sheets doesn’t even work the way they’ve proposed.
Additionally, after the update, the homebrew tool that allows us to copy a spell to make a homebrew version of a spell, will presumably point at the new version of the spell. Most of us don’t have the book yet, so we can’t look at the 300 (? 400?) ish 2024 spells and compare them to the 2014 versions to determine whether they need to be copied, so again their proposed solution falls short of being workable even for the use case that they themselves proposed even IF the spell picker worked in a way that would actually allow us to replace all of our own spells with homebrew legacy copies.
FYI: Most of the spells being replaced are in the Basic Rules. Start by copying all of those and watch for full listings from there.
It's been a day since this "clarification" and 3+ days since the initial announcement.
Hey DnD Beyond staff, you've probably gathered some significant feedback to this change by now. Do you have a response beyond "we're listening to you"? Any consideration at all for the people who weren't planning to update rules before you forced us into it?
It's been a day since this "clarification" and 3+ days since the initial announcement.
Hey DnD Beyond staff, you've probably gathered some significant feedback to this change by now. Do you have a response beyond "we're listening to you"? Any consideration at all for the people who weren't planning to update rules before you forced us into it?
It's unlikely that the relevant decision makers are in their offices at the moment. I expect they'll have a meeting on Monday which will probably fail to come to a decision (because, frankly, no good fix exists; they need to have a 2024 compatible character creator available by the time the PHB launches, that's really non-negotiable, and there just isn't enough time to create an alternative to the path they're currently on), resulting in some sort of announcement that won't make anyone happy sometime later.
Oh boy, I sure do love losing access to the things i spent money on
Too bad you're just the vocal minority, otherwise this might actually be something WotC would take into consideration.
I feel like you're intentionally trying to be antagonist there, but if that really is WotC's position they should give the mods the go ahead to tell us. It'd genuinely be useful to hear a "No we're not doing that" so we can know for sure whether to go or not.
Oh boy, I sure do love losing access to the things i spent money on
Too bad you're just the vocal minority, otherwise this might actually be something WotC would take into consideration.
I feel like you're intentionally trying to be antagonist there, but if that really is WotC's position they should give the mods the go ahead to tell us. It'd genuinely be useful to hear a "No we're not doing that" so we can know for sure whether to go or not.
He's saying that because, intentionally or not, the mods pretty much called everyone complaining a vocal minority several pages ago. For the record I'm not sure it was intentional but a lot of people took it that way.
It's been a day since this "clarification" and 3+ days since the initial announcement.
Hey DnD Beyond staff, you've probably gathered some significant feedback to this change by now. Do you have a response beyond "we're listening to you"? Any consideration at all for the people who weren't planning to update rules before you forced us into it?
It's unlikely that the relevant decision makers are in their offices at the moment. I expect they'll have a meeting on Monday which will probably fail to come to a decision (because, frankly, no good fix exists; they need to have a 2024 compatible character creator available by the time the PHB launches, that's really non-negotiable, and there just isn't enough time to create an alternative to the path they're currently on), resulting in some sort of announcement that won't make anyone happy sometime later.
Yep - that's the way it's going to go down. Hopefully they'll at least recognize there's a problem. Somewhere there's a low-level manager who's going to get scapegoated for everything....
"Some people are okay with these changes, and some are not"
Let me correct that for you...
"A very, very, very small percentage of people are okay with these changes, while the overwhelmingly vast majority of people are not"
Semantics. People who have negative opinions are generally more vocal about their displeasure than those who are okay with something. Those who are okay with something, as I'm seeing here, are quick to be called 'shills', 'sheep', or any other negative moniker.
You don't find it weird when an accounts that have been quiet and happy for years is suddenly active only to tell you they are upset about being forced to new rules instead of making the transition in the timely manner they want?
For how long I've been on the internet? Not at all. Negative news (and opinions) travel much farther than the positive. It's not quite a one-to-one, but the quote "A lie travels halfway around the world before the truth has time to put on pants/tie its shoes" feels relevant to me in a different way: "you will hear how much someone dislikes a thing before you will hear someone say they love it."
I never said that it was wrong to tell us how upset you are. That's what we're here for. I just don't want y'all to start tearing each other (or us) apart in the process.
Oh boy, I sure do love losing access to the things i spent money on
Too bad you're just the vocal minority, otherwise this might actually be something WotC would take into consideration.
I feel like you're intentionally trying to be antagonist there, but if that really is WotC's position they should give the mods the go ahead to tell us. It'd genuinely be useful to hear a "No we're not doing that" so we can know for sure whether to go or not.
That's essentially what we've been told so far.
Am I intentionally being antagonistic? I think I've been antagonized. I'm acting accordingly.
It's been a day since this "clarification" and 3+ days since the initial announcement.
Hey DnD Beyond staff, you've probably gathered some significant feedback to this change by now. Do you have a response beyond "we're listening to you"? Any consideration at all for the people who weren't planning to update rules before you forced us into it?
It's unlikely that the relevant decision makers are in their offices at the moment. I expect they'll have a meeting on Monday which will probably fail to come to a decision (because, frankly, no good fix exists; they need to have a 2024 compatible character creator available by the time the PHB launches, that's really non-negotiable, and there just isn't enough time to create an alternative to the path they're currently on), resulting in some sort of announcement that won't make anyone happy sometime later.
DDB Classic! ;)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Grant K. Smith A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
It's been a day since this "clarification" and 3+ days since the initial announcement.
Hey DnD Beyond staff, you've probably gathered some significant feedback to this change by now. Do you have a response beyond "we're listening to you"? Any consideration at all for the people who weren't planning to update rules before you forced us into it?
It's unlikely that the relevant decision makers are in their offices at the moment. I expect they'll have a meeting on Monday which will probably fail to come to a decision (because, frankly, no good fix exists; they need to have a 2024 compatible character creator available by the time the PHB launches, that's really non-negotiable, and there just isn't enough time to create an alternative to the path they're currently on), resulting in some sort of announcement that won't make anyone happy sometime later.
At this point they should just delay the dndbeyond updates until the monster manual comes out next year. Will save them so much headache and give them time to make the tool actually work for everyone. Nobody would have an issue with it if they were transparent with the community and said they needed more time to make sure no existing characters break
Oh boy, I sure do love losing access to the things i spent money on
Too bad you're just the vocal minority, otherwise this might actually be something WotC would take into consideration.
I feel like you're intentionally trying to be antagonist there, but if that really is WotC's position they should give the mods the go ahead to tell us. It'd genuinely be useful to hear a "No we're not doing that" so we can know for sure whether to go or not.
That's essentially what we've been told so far.
Am I intentionally being antagonistic? I think I've been antagonized. I'm acting accordingly.
Nowhere was there ever a "too bad," she was only pointing out that folks who don't have a complaint aren't going to show up in the complaint thread.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Grant K. Smith A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
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Just came to say I didn't support archiving old warforge, negative attribute races and other "legacy" content. I don't support it now.
While I intend to keep my subscription due to AL being the place where most of my gaming happens, I can no longer in good conscience advertise DDB.
Everyone here has a right to be upset at these changes. Especially the idea that *each individual person has to make their own homebrew fix b/c of the copyright system blocking it from being shared*.
I don't know made this choice, but it's very anti-consumer and putting it out here this close to release is even less appreciated.
I play hybrid games. Some players are digital, others physical.
My physical players often use spell cards, which hasn’t been an issue when quickly trying to pull up the digital version to read the wording and use of said spells. They don’t want to go virtual, and this is going to have them dig their heels in more towards making that change, since they will lose control of the version they want to play.
Yet, this change basically requires that they do go virtual in order to maintain consistency, because their version of spells will be different than the virtual players, especially if we need to make rulings on spell wording in various situations, or how one spell interacts with another.
A toggle to let people select the 2014 and/or 2024 version of spells/items will give players the flexibility they need to play with the rulesets that they want to play with, so people are able to change if, as, and when they want to. Taking away people’s choices does not earn more customers.
I'm not sure I'm following... You didn't support "Legacy" before but now you want the 2014 rules to be available as "Legacy"? Am I understanding you correctly?
Grant K. Smith
A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
You are obviously talking about me since I am the only person who is not angry and who has posted on nearly every page. Which post of mine stated that what you feel you lost is trivial? Which post was even incendiary? I have only been communicating an opinion on the topic of the changes and replying directly to those who have tagged me, excluding this post (which refers to me) and my first post in this thread.
I do not believe the impact is universally trivial and have actually spent a lot of time encouraging people to voice to what degree this change has negatively impacted them. I myself am not very impacted because my review of videos covering the changes are largely beneficial, I am getting these beneficial updates free of charge, and I had intended to change to the 2024 rules as soon as my DMs choose to switch. Even if my DMs elected to stay in the 2014 rules however, there is a relatively small impact to me and my tables because we do not use every spell or every magic item, and in fact, most spells and magic items do not get used at the tables I play at; the effort that would go into homebrewing those items and spells would be fairly minimal. Hardliner 2014 players feel very differently and that is just as valid as my feelings on it. No more, no less.
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Instead of just offering legacy versions of the spells, would every gm need to make there own version hundreds, if not thousands of just a single spell.
The cost for each duplicate may be small, but it's not nothing, and if enough people do your crazy workaround, it can start to add up where it could all be avoided by just adding a flag.
- Deleting due to formatting issues. Sorry. -
I think that maybe what you and several others who are on the side of “nothing is being taken away” have forgotten is that the DnDBeyond Character Creator tool does not currently (as far as I’ve ever been able to tell) offer a way to customize available spells, number of spells allowed, or whether or not a spell is “always prepared”. Any spell that is “Always Prepared” is stuck there and cannot be replaced and adding a homebrew copy of the 2014 version will, according to DnDBeyond, count against spells known or prepared. As far as I can tell there is no workaround to this problem and so their proposed “solution” of just homebrewing those spells and replacing them on our character sheets doesn’t even work the way they’ve proposed.
Additionally, after the update, the homebrew tool that allows us to copy a spell to make a homebrew version of a spell, will presumably point at the new version of the spell. Most of us don’t have the book yet, so we can’t look at the 300 (? 400?) ish 2024 spells and compare them to the 2014 versions to determine whether they need to be copied, so again their proposed solution falls short of being workable even for the use case that they themselves proposed even IF the spell picker worked in a way that would actually allow us to replace all of our own spells with homebrew legacy copies.
FYI: Most of the spells being replaced are in the Basic Rules. Start by copying all of those and watch for full listings from there.
Oh boy, I sure do love losing access to the things i spent money on
It's been a day since this "clarification" and 3+ days since the initial announcement.
Hey DnD Beyond staff, you've probably gathered some significant feedback to this change by now. Do you have a response beyond "we're listening to you"? Any consideration at all for the people who weren't planning to update rules before you forced us into it?
Too bad you're just the vocal minority, otherwise this might actually be something WotC would take into consideration.
It's unlikely that the relevant decision makers are in their offices at the moment. I expect they'll have a meeting on Monday which will probably fail to come to a decision (because, frankly, no good fix exists; they need to have a 2024 compatible character creator available by the time the PHB launches, that's really non-negotiable, and there just isn't enough time to create an alternative to the path they're currently on), resulting in some sort of announcement that won't make anyone happy sometime later.
I feel like you're intentionally trying to be antagonist there, but if that really is WotC's position they should give the mods the go ahead to tell us. It'd genuinely be useful to hear a "No we're not doing that" so we can know for sure whether to go or not.
He's saying that because, intentionally or not, the mods pretty much called everyone complaining a vocal minority several pages ago. For the record I'm not sure it was intentional but a lot of people took it that way.
Yep - that's the way it's going to go down. Hopefully they'll at least recognize there's a problem. Somewhere there's a low-level manager who's going to get scapegoated for everything....
This is why these things are being said.
Note: LaTiaJacquise is a community manager
That's essentially what we've been told so far.
Am I intentionally being antagonistic? I think I've been antagonized. I'm acting accordingly.
DDB Classic! ;)
Grant K. Smith
A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
At this point they should just delay the dndbeyond updates until the monster manual comes out next year. Will save them so much headache and give them time to make the tool actually work for everyone. Nobody would have an issue with it if they were transparent with the community and said they needed more time to make sure no existing characters break
Nowhere was there ever a "too bad," she was only pointing out that folks who don't have a complaint aren't going to show up in the complaint thread.
Grant K. Smith
A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous