There is no database design ever that would warrant replacement on a technical site at all.
In fact replacing entries balantly is something you have to go out of your way for.
Well that's just patently false.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Grant K. Smith A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
There is no database design ever that would warrant replacement on a technical site at all.
In fact replacing entries balantly is something you have to go out of your way for.
Well that's just patently false.
UPDATE Spells SET Description = '2024 Magic Missile description" WHERE Name = 'Magic Missile';
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Grant K. Smith A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
So you are conceding that you can't have a 100% 2014 character, you will have to at least have the 2024 spell descriptions and 2024 hide rules (there are more obviously, but we don't need to go through one by one).
Sure, if that misinterpretation makes you feel better, but those things are not your character, though. They're links off your character sheet in a tool. It doesn't make it more optimal, but those are the facts.
Yes, the facts are that you cannot run a 2014 character off the new sheets. You've just admitted it by saying the spells will still list the 2024 rules.
My Druid character often uses the 2014 Conjure Animal spell to summon beasts for crowd control. On this supposedly 100% 2014 character sheet of yours, where would the rules for that be listed? Specifically on the character sheet, not in the compendium.
It's not a good feeling losing access to things you have paid for, or having those things become overly complicated.
D&D Beyond was a toolkit to streamline character management.
Hopefully this is a wake up call to the D&D Beyond Team that if we have to create homebrew content to access something paid for that we currently have there is no reason to support or continue using the service.
i think the real problem with this whether its intentional or not it just seems greedy as many have stated before if there is some technical reason they cant make the change they need to state that, especially when to the user base it seems like they have integrated legacy content before, so what makes this different? but my guess is its not a technical issue, they are making the old system harder to use on purpose so people are more inclined to use the new system and they can just sell more books. like almost everyone i know my self included has canceled their sub or cant due to a "bug" but want too. this is not a small out cry from a few disgruntled players. this is a massive mistake and over-site that has already cost hasbro and wotc millions. people are flocking to new systems left and right. even people that preordered the books and liked the new rules now want a refund and are unsubing cause this is such a scummy thing to do. and at this point, even if they backpedaled the whole thing and added the old spell under legacy content like most of the player base wants[which they wont], its almost too late. the damage has been done, the trust has been lost, and i do fear for the future of this platform moving forward..
Your "Valid Reason" is pretty much coperate greed.
There is no database design ever that would warrant replacement on a technical site at all.
In fact replacing entries balantly is something you have to go out of your way for.
Maybe. We simply don't know.
The devs who created this site have, long ago, gone on record stating that the site was rushed to get it going and that meant that the code is what is dubbed by my dev friends 'spaghetti'. Fix one problem, it makes another. That is a possible reason. Another is that the labor for them to replicate every spell and magic item in the name of preserving nothing but flavor or lack of clarity did not make much operational sense. That is another very valid reason from someone who is intimately familiar with the subject.
We just don't know. Thought distortions are not helpful and in fact, they are harmful. I am not really willing to engage in those. I am dealing only with what I know, what is.
So you are conceding that you can't have a 100% 2014 character, you will have to at least have the 2024 spell descriptions and 2024 hide rules (there are more obviously, but we don't need to go through one by one).
Sure, if that misinterpretation makes you feel better, but those things are not your character, though. They're links off your character sheet in a tool. It doesn't make it more optimal, but those are the facts.
Yes, the facts are that you cannot run a 2014 character off the new sheets. You've just admitted it by saying the spells will still list the 2024 rules.
My Druid character often uses the 2014 Conjure Animal spell to summon beasts for crowd control. On this supposedly 100% 2014 character sheet of yours, where would the rules for that be listed? Specifically on the character sheet, not in the compendium.
Funny, I don't see anything on an actual character sheet spell list other than a line for a spell name. Everything else is LINKED OUT from a digit tool which is not optimal, but is not the same thing as the character being some ruleset hybrid.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Grant K. Smith A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
I purchased content for the character builder. That will no longer be accessable. Do not try and claim that compendium content is an acceptable substitute.
I will not.
The content is still available in the character builder, just in its updated form.
Considering every reply of yours have been a veiled or outright defense of their actions.
Yes, i am talking to you.
Which post has defended their actions? Explain how the post in question does this and how it is not actually me correcting someone's misunderstanding of my post.
So you are conceding that you can't have a 100% 2014 character, you will have to at least have the 2024 spell descriptions and 2024 hide rules (there are more obviously, but we don't need to go through one by one).
Sure, if that misinterpretation makes you feel better, but those things are not your character, though. They're links off your character sheet in a tool. It doesn't make it more optimal, but those are the facts.
Yes, the facts are that you cannot run a 2014 character off the new sheets. You've just admitted it by saying the spells will still list the 2024 rules.
My Druid character often uses the 2014 Conjure Animal spell to summon beasts for crowd control. On this supposedly 100% 2014 character sheet of yours, where would the rules for that be listed? Specifically on the character sheet, not in the compendium.
Funny, I don't see anything on an actual character sheet spell list other than a line for a spell name. Everything else is LINKED OUT from a digit tool which is not optimal, but is not the same thing as the character being some ruleset hybrid.
That doesn't look like the DDB character sheet. Mine shows spell information when you click on it.
Do you want to try again, or do you want to keep clutching at straws to try and prove that the content that DDB have said is being removed isn't being removed?
I purchased content for the character builder. That will no longer be accessable. Do not try and claim that compendium content is an acceptable substitute.
I will not.
The content is still available in the character builder, just in its updated form.
Considering every reply of yours have been a veiled or outright defense of their actions.
Yes, i am talking to you.
Which post has defended their actions? Explain how the post in question does this and how it is not actually me correcting someone's misunderstanding of my post.
I mean.. you did just in this post.
Instead of dealing with the issue that is there, you continue to tell people why it is somehow not an issue; or you go into some stupid dichotomy how WotC's only options were "take it all away" and "Give us the new stuff in place of what they're taking away" and then going to bat for them on why Legacy wasn't an option.
Maybe next you'd like to tell us why the OGL event or the AI art usage isn't what we thought they were.
I purchased content for the character builder. That will no longer be accessable. Do not try and claim that compendium content is an acceptable substitute.
I will not.
The content is still available in the character builder, just in its updated form.
Do you not understand the the two rulesets are different. The 2024 Conjure Animals spell is completely different to the 2014 one.
Will the 2014 version be accessable in the character builder with the correct spell description when you click on it?
Instead of dealing with the issue that is there, you continue to tell people why it is somehow not an issue.
Maybe next you'd like to tell us why the OGL event or the AI art usage isn't what we thought they were.
I did not. I am simply stating what is, with no judgment attached to it.
I am not telling people it is not an issue either. This is putting words in my mouth and fair warning, is against the terms and conditions of the site. I am not creating a dichotomy either. I am addressing confusion by others on whether they were having content removed and having to pay for the new content.
The last sentence is very off topic, much like all the rest of your posts at me. Can you please just address my posts or find someone else to argue with?
Just like many others. I’ve now cancelled our Master Tier subscription. These kind of actions and decisions are indicative of what the future of DnDBeyond is going to look like. I really hope you guys can listen to your fan base and fix this. It’s pretty simple, add legacy tags to the spells or have a toggle on each character sheet (or any other of myriad fixes)
It’s really sad to have supported you for so long only to be slapped in the face with this kind of move. For us and our campaign that doesn’t want to shift half way through, this is such a frustrating and game breaking change. We’ll eventually update to 2024 and we’ll be moving to a new platform from then on
This is a really frustrating change. I'm running an active campaign with new players who have already put a ton of time into learning the 2014 rules so and even though the 2024 rules appeal to me, I didn't want to force them into using them because I didn't want to create even more barrier to entry into this game. But now I have to choose between forcing them to re-learn the 2024 rules or have their character sheets effectively become useless for referencing the 2014 rules/spells/etc.
Having the 2014 rules only available in a compendium and not in character sheets basically means there's no reason for us to continue using DnD Beyond for managing our characters. We may as well go back to PDFs if we have to look up critical information like spells and core rules outside of the sheet anyway. DDB was worth the cost to me because it made my job as a DM easier and made playing easier for my players. I have no reason to continue paying for it if I'm going to have to homebrew a ton of things to try and keep the character sheets working.
If I'm a minority opinion on this then fine, but I've shown how I feel the only way I know how to, which is by cancelling the renewal on my DDB subscription. I hope that DDB finds a way to do this better without forcing DMs into doing a bunch of extra work, and if they do, I'll be happy to renew my subscription. But in the meantime, I'll be spending the time it'd take me to homebrew looking into other platforms to manage the character sheets for our campaign.
It's bizarre. In different threads I've got two people trying to tell me that the spells removed from the character builder aren't removed from the character builder, because they're in the compendium, and another trying to convince me you can make a character withe 100% 2014 rules, you just have to use the the 2024 spells. 🤦♂️
Do you not understand the the two rulesets are different. The 2024 Conjure Animals spell is completely different to the 2014 one.
Will the 2014 version be accessable in the character builder with the correct spell description when you click on it?
I do understand this and I believe I have communicated this very thing many times. Whether they are different is a different issue than whether you have access to content. You do, the content you purchased has just been updated. If you have a problem with that, you should probably try to argue with someone who is telling you to like it. That person is not me.
I believe you already read the changelog, so you know that the 2014 version of spells and magic items are going to be overwritten with the 2024 version of those same spells and magic items. This acknowledgement by me is not a victory for you because I never disputed this, nor said you should like it.
Once again, please read my posts for what they are.
I didn't think that they had actually given a definite answer on whether you would be able to add 2014 content to character sheets, just that all character sheets will default to the new 2024 content. They were being vague and skirting around the issue with the new clarification (backtrack) announcement by saying 2014 content will still be available but not mentioning at all if you can add it to character sheets. Maybe I missed something but that's what I had read.
I also think that it is crazy that in the character creation home page it will not be possible to toggle OFF the new 2024 rules. What if we want to play completely without them? We just aren't allowed to do that anymore?
This is just another OGL fiasco all over again where they make these terrible changes to things that the community absolutely despises and makes no sense to do in the first place and then they go into damage control mode and start rolling stuff back.
Let's hope they roll it back enough because I've already told the players in my games to make backups of their DnDbeyond character sheets on other platforms or at least take screenshots so they can be remade somewhere else, and I have probably at least 30 I have to backup myself because I use character sheets for a lot of NPCs in my homebrew world, and also have a handful of PCs on here as well.
You will 100% be able to make and play characters using the 2014 rules. The issue people are concerned about is that certain parts of the system are being updated to the new rules in such a way that it will affect those characters in the toolset, spells and equipment being the main issues, presumably because they're not segmented in the system the same way as other things that have been marked "Legacy" in the past (but that last bit is my educated guess).
So even though you have a 2014 character, the links in the tools will point to the current 2024 version of spells and equipment and the 2014 versions will only be accessible via the compendium content. That's the problem.
No, you can make a character with *some* 2014 rules. Other rules you will be forced to use 2024 rules. Existing character sheets will have some features forcibly changed to 2024 rules. There will be no way to build a 100% 2014 cjaracter on here adter the switchover.
This is all quite clear in the changelog. They have listed a homebrew workaround for spells, however experimentation on the forums has shown that this won't work in many cases.
Access through the compendium is irrelevant to the character builder features being removed.
Well this is literally my freaking nightmare then. DNDbeyond and Beyond20 make my DMing life with VTTs so much easier and it looks like I am gonna have to find an entirely new way to DM on Roll20 now. This absolutely sucks. Why can they not just add a toggle option for 2014 character or 2024 character? How hard is that? Or just have all of the features for both and if you checkmark the box allowing 2014 features on the character creation home page those will be able to be added to the sheet. What a giant ******* mess. WotC just keeps stepping on their own ***** and not listening to it's own gaming community. Sad and extremely frustrating.
I have been waiting for a promise that the 2014 rules would be usable for a couple years on DND Beyond before preordering the 2024 rules. I guess its time to tell all the WotC haters that I was wrong about the greater customer focus since the OGL Crisis.
Nothing is forever but to drop support for Vecna just a few months after releasing the module, when it often takes groups a couple years to work through an adventure is hard to fathom.
5 years of support is what I would expect from a beloved company like Larian Studios. 2 years of support seems like a reasonable expectation for WotC.
Do you not understand the the two rulesets are different. The 2024 Conjure Animals spell is completely different to the 2014 one.
Will the 2014 version be accessable in the character builder with the correct spell description when you click on it?
I do understand this and I believe I have communicated this very thing many times. Whether they are different is a different issue than whether you have access to content. You do, the content you purchased has just been updated. If you have a problem with that, you should probably try to argue with someone who is telling you to like it. That person is not me.
I believe you already read the changelog, so you know that the 2014 version of spells and magic items are going to be overwritten with the 2024 version of those same spells and magic items. This acknowledgement by me is not a victory for you because I never disputed this, nor said you should like it.
Once again, please read my posts for what they are.
The 2012 Conjure Animals spell is not the same content as the 2024 Conjure Animals spell. The former will no longer be available in the character builder. Maybe you're confused because they have the same name, but they are not the same content. Both are valid under 5e rules and should both be available in the character builder.
I don't think I can make things much simpler.
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Well that's just patently false.
Grant K. Smith
A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
UPDATE Spells
SET Description = '2024 Magic Missile description"
WHERE Name = 'Magic Missile';
Grant K. Smith
A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
Yes, the facts are that you cannot run a 2014 character off the new sheets. You've just admitted it by saying the spells will still list the 2024 rules.
My Druid character often uses the 2014 Conjure Animal spell to summon beasts for crowd control. On this supposedly 100% 2014 character sheet of yours, where would the rules for that be listed? Specifically on the character sheet, not in the compendium.
It's not a good feeling losing access to things you have paid for, or having those things become overly complicated.
D&D Beyond was a toolkit to streamline character management.
Hopefully this is a wake up call to the D&D Beyond Team that if we have to create homebrew content to access something paid for that we currently have there is no reason to support or continue using the service.
i think the real problem with this whether its intentional or not it just seems greedy as many have stated before if there is some technical reason they cant make the change they need to state that, especially when to the user base it seems like they have integrated legacy content before, so what makes this different? but my guess is its not a technical issue, they are making the old system harder to use on purpose so people are more inclined to use the new system and they can just sell more books. like almost everyone i know my self included has canceled their sub or cant due to a "bug" but want too. this is not a small out cry from a few disgruntled players. this is a massive mistake and over-site that has already cost hasbro and wotc millions. people are flocking to new systems left and right. even people that preordered the books and liked the new rules now want a refund and are unsubing cause this is such a scummy thing to do. and at this point, even if they backpedaled the whole thing and added the old spell under legacy content like most of the player base wants[which they wont], its almost too late. the damage has been done, the trust has been lost, and i do fear for the future of this platform moving forward..
Maybe. We simply don't know.
The devs who created this site have, long ago, gone on record stating that the site was rushed to get it going and that meant that the code is what is dubbed by my dev friends 'spaghetti'. Fix one problem, it makes another. That is a possible reason. Another is that the labor for them to replicate every spell and magic item in the name of preserving nothing but flavor or lack of clarity did not make much operational sense. That is another very valid reason from someone who is intimately familiar with the subject.
We just don't know. Thought distortions are not helpful and in fact, they are harmful. I am not really willing to engage in those. I am dealing only with what I know, what is.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock
Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
Check out my life-changing
Funny, I don't see anything on an actual character sheet spell list other than a line for a spell name. Everything else is LINKED OUT from a digit tool which is not optimal, but is not the same thing as the character being some ruleset hybrid.
Grant K. Smith
A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
I will not.
The content is still available in the character builder, just in its updated form.
Which post has defended their actions? Explain how the post in question does this and how it is not actually me correcting someone's misunderstanding of my post.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock
Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
Check out my life-changing
👀🍿🍿🍿 Had to go to dinner with the family. What did I miss? I have alot of reading to do.
That doesn't look like the DDB character sheet. Mine shows spell information when you click on it.
Do you want to try again, or do you want to keep clutching at straws to try and prove that the content that DDB have said is being removed isn't being removed?
I mean.. you did just in this post.
Instead of dealing with the issue that is there, you continue to tell people why it is somehow not an issue; or you go into some stupid dichotomy how WotC's only options were "take it all away" and "Give us the new stuff in place of what they're taking away" and then going to bat for them on why Legacy wasn't an option.
Maybe next you'd like to tell us why the OGL event or the AI art usage isn't what we thought they were.
Do you not understand the the two rulesets are different. The 2024 Conjure Animals spell is completely different to the 2014 one.
Will the 2014 version be accessable in the character builder with the correct spell description when you click on it?
I did not. I am simply stating what is, with no judgment attached to it.
I am not telling people it is not an issue either. This is putting words in my mouth and fair warning, is against the terms and conditions of the site. I am not creating a dichotomy either. I am addressing confusion by others on whether they were having content removed and having to pay for the new content.
The last sentence is very off topic, much like all the rest of your posts at me. Can you please just address my posts or find someone else to argue with?
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock
Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
Check out my life-changing
Just like many others. I’ve now cancelled our Master Tier subscription. These kind of actions and decisions are indicative of what the future of DnDBeyond is going to look like. I really hope you guys can listen to your fan base and fix this. It’s pretty simple, add legacy tags to the spells or have a toggle on each character sheet (or any other of myriad fixes)
It’s really sad to have supported you for so long only to be slapped in the face with this kind of move. For us and our campaign that doesn’t want to shift half way through, this is such a frustrating and game breaking change. We’ll eventually update to 2024 and we’ll be moving to a new platform from then on
This is a really frustrating change. I'm running an active campaign with new players who have already put a ton of time into learning the 2014 rules so and even though the 2024 rules appeal to me, I didn't want to force them into using them because I didn't want to create even more barrier to entry into this game. But now I have to choose between forcing them to re-learn the 2024 rules or have their character sheets effectively become useless for referencing the 2014 rules/spells/etc.
Having the 2014 rules only available in a compendium and not in character sheets basically means there's no reason for us to continue using DnD Beyond for managing our characters. We may as well go back to PDFs if we have to look up critical information like spells and core rules outside of the sheet anyway. DDB was worth the cost to me because it made my job as a DM easier and made playing easier for my players. I have no reason to continue paying for it if I'm going to have to homebrew a ton of things to try and keep the character sheets working.
If I'm a minority opinion on this then fine, but I've shown how I feel the only way I know how to, which is by cancelling the renewal on my DDB subscription. I hope that DDB finds a way to do this better without forcing DMs into doing a bunch of extra work, and if they do, I'll be happy to renew my subscription. But in the meantime, I'll be spending the time it'd take me to homebrew looking into other platforms to manage the character sheets for our campaign.
It's bizarre. In different threads I've got two people trying to tell me that the spells removed from the character builder aren't removed from the character builder, because they're in the compendium, and another trying to convince me you can make a character withe 100% 2014 rules, you just have to use the the 2024 spells. 🤦♂️
I do understand this and I believe I have communicated this very thing many times. Whether they are different is a different issue than whether you have access to content. You do, the content you purchased has just been updated. If you have a problem with that, you should probably try to argue with someone who is telling you to like it. That person is not me.
I believe you already read the changelog, so you know that the 2014 version of spells and magic items are going to be overwritten with the 2024 version of those same spells and magic items. This acknowledgement by me is not a victory for you because I never disputed this, nor said you should like it.
Once again, please read my posts for what they are.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock
Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
Check out my life-changing
Well this is literally my freaking nightmare then. DNDbeyond and Beyond20 make my DMing life with VTTs so much easier and it looks like I am gonna have to find an entirely new way to DM on Roll20 now. This absolutely sucks. Why can they not just add a toggle option for 2014 character or 2024 character? How hard is that? Or just have all of the features for both and if you checkmark the box allowing 2014 features on the character creation home page those will be able to be added to the sheet. What a giant ******* mess. WotC just keeps stepping on their own ***** and not listening to it's own gaming community. Sad and extremely frustrating.
I have been waiting for a promise that the 2014 rules would be usable for a couple years on DND Beyond before preordering the 2024 rules. I guess its time to tell all the WotC haters that I was wrong about the greater customer focus since the OGL Crisis.
Nothing is forever but to drop support for Vecna just a few months after releasing the module, when it often takes groups a couple years to work through an adventure is hard to fathom.
5 years of support is what I would expect from a beloved company like Larian Studios. 2 years of support seems like a reasonable expectation for WotC.
The 2012 Conjure Animals spell is not the same content as the 2024 Conjure Animals spell. The former will no longer be available in the character builder. Maybe you're confused because they have the same name, but they are not the same content. Both are valid under 5e rules and should both be available in the character builder.
I don't think I can make things much simpler.