The party is about to go up to 9th level, which means the Transmuter wizard gets access to 5th level spells. I started wondering how other DMs go about deciding how many spells to allow the character to get? I was going to give her 3 5th level spells, one of which must be from Transmutation, then 1 each of 1st-4th level.
I only add spells when characters specifically invest downtime in transcribing or learning new spells. Just because you are now more powerful in channelling magic doesn't mean spells automatically appear in your spell book, so often characters might just use that new higher level slot to upcast existing spells until they have had time to transcribe new spells (e.g. if they previously came across a spell book or scroll of a higher level spell - by hanging onto it, they can now get that spell into the repertoire)
Wizards automatically get two new spells when they level up. Any other spells they learn would have to be encountered out in the world basically as "loot"
I only add spells when characters specifically invest downtime in transcribing or learning new spells. Just because you are now more powerful in channelling magic doesn't mean spells automatically appear in your spell book, so often characters might just use that new higher level slot to upcast existing spells until they have had time to transcribe new spells (e.g. if they previously came across a spell book or scroll of a higher level spell - by hanging onto it, they can now get that spell into the repertoire)
I always have the party spend time/money leveling up. It allows me a chance to make sure they get some skills/spells/items I want them to have that will come into play later in the campaign, and allows me to take away some of their money. And since the players are still relatively new to D&D, it gives them a chance to learn more about spells and abilities and think about their character's progression.
I always have the party spend time/money leveling up. It allows me a chance to make sure they get some skills/spells/items I want them to have that will come into play later in the campaign, and allows me to take away some of their money. And since the players are still relatively new to D&D, it gives them a chance to learn more about spells and abilities and think about their character's progression.
Why not just play the game by the rules and allow the players to take the spells/skills/items they want themselves instead of forcing them to act a certain way and basically play their characters for them? Do you also roll their dice for them?
Easy there skippy, that was uncalled for. We have been playing this campaign for a year and they are enjoying it, so maybe you could not comment on things you don't know about?
Wizards automatically get two new spells when they level up. Any other spells they learn would have to be encountered out in the world basically as "loot"
Exactly, “loot” in this case being spell scrolls bought or plundered, or enemy wizards’ spellbooks recovered after a battle, that sort of thing.
I tend to let the players pick because it's their character and it is going to mean more to them that they build the character they want than it does to me that one player has a specific spell. If the party needs a certain spell to get through something, they get a scroll. So yeah, for me the wizard learns 2 spells of their choosing on their level up, and I take no part in the decision, unless they ask me.
I haven't DMed for a Wizard yet, but I feel that when I do, I will be looking for interesting spells that are lower than the wizards maximum spell level, and that are interesting/quirky. I will also look to make my own spells, and to pick spells from other spell lists for them to find and learn. It is a key part of being a wizard, after all!
I am curious as to how you're running level-ups? it sounds like you're homebrewing how many spells an already powerful casting class gets, but limiting them as a DM?
I tend to let the players pick because it's their character and it is going to mean more to them that they build the character they want than it does to me that one player has a specific spell. If the party needs a certain spell to get through something, they get a scroll. So yeah, for me the wizard learns 2 spells of their choosing on their level up, and I take no part in the decision, unless they ask me.
I haven't DMed for a Wizard yet, but I feel that when I do, I will be looking for interesting spells that are lower than the wizards maximum spell level, and that are interesting/quirky. I will also look to make my own spells, and to pick spells from other spell lists for them to find and learn. It is a key part of being a wizard, after all!
I am curious as to how you're running level-ups? it sounds like you're homebrewing how many spells an already powerful casting class gets, but limiting them as a DM?
No, I am giving them more spells in their spellbook, but not changing how many they can cast. I don't want to homebrew any spells for this party yet, as the wizard is pretty new and definitely does not want to do any more work in learning D&D than she has to (we're all busy, so it is legit).
I tend to do my level ups retro. Takes a certain amount of downtime and money to achieve that level and gain the skills, spells, attribute increases, etc. 95% of the time, they pick what they want, however every now and then I will push a certain thing on them as their mentor. For example, the rogue is getting Infiltration Expertise, so I will suggest a certain identity she needs to create as it is something I want to use to push a storyline later in the campaign. Other identities are all hers to decide.
Well, it says, "Each time you gain a wizard level, you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots, as shown on the Wizard table. On your adventures, you might find other spells that you can add to your spellbook (see the “Your Spellbook” sidebar)."
I would not read that as a hard limit of two. I do have them find some other spells as they go along as loot.
Well, it says, "Each time you gain a wizard level, you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots, as shown on the Wizard table. On your adventures, you might find other spells that you can add to your spellbook (see the “Your Spellbook” sidebar)."
I would not read that as a hard limit of two. I do have them find some other spells as they go along as loot.
Sorry, can you explain how "you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free" doesn't read as a limit of two?
Well, it says, "Each time you gain a wizard level, you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots, as shown on the Wizard table. On your adventures, you might find other spells that you can add to your spellbook (see the “Your Spellbook” sidebar)."
I would not read that as a hard limit of two. I do have them find some other spells as they go along as loot.
Sorry, can you explain how "you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free" doesn't read as a limit of two?
Because it says "for free". A limit would say "You can add only two wizard spells of your choice". Nothing in the RAW limits you to more than two, IMO.
Well, it says, "Each time you gain a wizard level, you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots, as shown on the Wizard table. On your adventures, you might find other spells that you can add to your spellbook (see the “Your Spellbook” sidebar)."
I would not read that as a hard limit of two. I do have them find some other spells as they go along as loot.
Sorry, can you explain how "you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free" doesn't read as a limit of two?
Because it says "for free". A limit would say "You can add only two wizard spells of your choice". Nothing in the RAW limits you to more than two, IMO.
No one has suggested otherwise. But additional spells aren't free; they have to be bought or looted, and then they have to be transcribed into the spellbook.
Well, it says, "Each time you gain a wizard level, you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots, as shown on the Wizard table. On your adventures, you might find other spells that you can add to your spellbook (see the “Your Spellbook” sidebar)."
I would not read that as a hard limit of two. I do have them find some other spells as they go along as loot.
Sorry, can you explain how "you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free" doesn't read as a limit of two?
Because it says "for free". A limit would say "You can add only two wizard spells of your choice". Nothing in the RAW limits you to more than two, IMO.
No one has suggested otherwise. But additional spells aren't free; they have to be bought or looted.
Well, it says, "Each time you gain a wizard level, you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots, as shown on the Wizard table. On your adventures, you might find other spells that you can add to your spellbook (see the “Your Spellbook” sidebar)."
I would not read that as a hard limit of two. I do have them find some other spells as they go along as loot.
Sorry, can you explain how "you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free" doesn't read as a limit of two?
Because it says "for free". A limit would say "You can add only two wizard spells of your choice". Nothing in the RAW limits you to more than two, IMO.
No one has suggested otherwise. But additional spells aren't free; they have to be bought or looted.
You just asked me how it doesn't read as a limit of two, so you suggested otherwise. And nothing says other spells cannot be free, although I do charge them for the training/spells. I think you are interpreting RAW more strictly than I do.
You just asked me how it doesn't read as a limit of two, so you suggested otherwise. And nothing says other spells cannot be free, although I do charge them for the training/spells. I think you are interpreting RAW more strictly than I do.
I absolutely did not suggest otherwise. I was agreeing with and elaborating on a post explaining how to get more spells above and beyond the two you get for free. I really don't want to get into a back and forth because you haven't understood what I've been saying though so I won't belabor it further.
Thanks for the insight in any event. I have not played in along, long time before starting back up about a year ago, and when I di play we were on 2E and 3E, so a lot of what I am used to doing is not necessarily RAW now. Insights are always good.
I think the two of you are saying the same thing from different angles and putting a different concept on the word “limit.” One of you is conceptualizing it as a hard “limit” of two spells per level total, and the other is thinking of it as a limit on the number of free spells.
I think the two of you are saying the same thing from different angles and putting a different concept on the word “limit.” One of you is conceptualizing it as a hard “limit” of two spells per level total, and the other is thinking of it as a limit on the number of free spells.
I don't think of it as a limit at all. You get two for free, RAW. Other than that, I think it is up to me.
I think the two of you are saying the same thing from different angles and putting a different concept on the word “limit.” One of you is conceptualizing it as a hard “limit” of two spells per level total, and the other is thinking of it as a limit on the number of free spells.
I don't think of it as a limit at all. You get two for free, RAW. Other than that, I think it is up to me.
I'd say it's a team effort - you can present them with as many spell scrolls and spells to copy as you like, but it is up to them whether they spend the 50gp and 2 hours needed to note each one into their spellbook. A wizard with only 60gp might hang onto a scroll for a while before they can justify the spend to copy it down. Or, in the hands of another player, they might thirst for new spells like a vampire for blood, and will stop at nothing to get the 50gp to copy it down.
The important thing is to be aware of the balance that 5e is using, as it has the cost for a reason for wizards. A level 20 wizard already knows 44 spells base, so if they learn 3 per level extra from generous DMing, then they could have over 100 by then!
Agree that giving a wizard extra spells is along similar lines to giving a fighter a magic sword or a ranger a magic bow, but it is worth keeping it in mind as them being bonus on top of the 2 they learn for free. The best way, I suspect, is if they are debating which they want to take and there's a third they can't decide over - whichever they don't pick, have it turn up in a scroll a ways along, before they level up again. It's also worth noting that the extra ones can be gathered along the way, rather than all at a level up - again, offsetting the rogue getting cool sneaky shoes and the barbarian getting a painful hat that lets their rage burn for the whole length of time in a dungeon halfway through their level, give the wizard a new spell.
I think the two of you are saying the same thing from different angles and putting a different concept on the word “limit.” One of you is conceptualizing it as a hard “limit” of two spells per level total, and the other is thinking of it as a limit on the number of free spells.
I don't think of it as a limit at all. You get two for free, RAW. Other than that, I think it is up to me.
I'd say it's a team effort - you can present them with as many spell scrolls and spells to copy as you like, but it is up to them whether they spend the 50gp and 2 hours needed to note each one into their spellbook. A wizard with only 60gp might hang onto a scroll for a while before they can justify the spend to copy it down. Or, in the hands of another player, they might thirst for new spells like a vampire for blood, and will stop at nothing to get the 50gp to copy it down.
The important thing is to be aware of the balance that 5e is using, as it has the cost for a reason for wizards. A level 20 wizard already knows 44 spells base, so if they learn 3 per level extra from generous DMing, then they could have over 100 by then!
Agree that giving a wizard extra spells is along similar lines to giving a fighter a magic sword or a ranger a magic bow, but it is worth keeping it in mind as them being bonus on top of the 2 they learn for free. The best way, I suspect, is if they are debating which they want to take and there's a third they can't decide over - whichever they don't pick, have it turn up in a scroll a ways along, before they level up again. It's also worth noting that the extra ones can be gathered along the way, rather than all at a level up - again, offsetting the rogue getting cool sneaky shoes and the barbarian getting a painful hat that lets their rage burn for the whole length of time in a dungeon halfway through their level, give the wizard a new spell.
That makes a lot of sense. They are not hurting for gold. However, since there are only 3 PCs in the party, I tend to let the wizard be a little more powerful, to offset physical attacks and the lack thereof.
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The party is about to go up to 9th level, which means the Transmuter wizard gets access to 5th level spells. I started wondering how other DMs go about deciding how many spells to allow the character to get? I was going to give her 3 5th level spells, one of which must be from Transmutation, then 1 each of 1st-4th level.
How do you all do this?
I usually go RAW for my players leveling up.
In this instance the wizard gets to learn 2 new spells of any level they have slots for.
I only add spells when characters specifically invest downtime in transcribing or learning new spells. Just because you are now more powerful in channelling magic doesn't mean spells automatically appear in your spell book, so often characters might just use that new higher level slot to upcast existing spells until they have had time to transcribe new spells (e.g. if they previously came across a spell book or scroll of a higher level spell - by hanging onto it, they can now get that spell into the repertoire)
Wizards automatically get two new spells when they level up. Any other spells they learn would have to be encountered out in the world basically as "loot"
I always have the party spend time/money leveling up. It allows me a chance to make sure they get some skills/spells/items I want them to have that will come into play later in the campaign, and allows me to take away some of their money. And since the players are still relatively new to D&D, it gives them a chance to learn more about spells and abilities and think about their character's progression.
Easy there skippy, that was uncalled for. We have been playing this campaign for a year and they are enjoying it, so maybe you could not comment on things you don't know about?
Exactly, “loot” in this case being spell scrolls bought or plundered, or enemy wizards’ spellbooks recovered after a battle, that sort of thing.
I tend to let the players pick because it's their character and it is going to mean more to them that they build the character they want than it does to me that one player has a specific spell. If the party needs a certain spell to get through something, they get a scroll. So yeah, for me the wizard learns 2 spells of their choosing on their level up, and I take no part in the decision, unless they ask me.
I haven't DMed for a Wizard yet, but I feel that when I do, I will be looking for interesting spells that are lower than the wizards maximum spell level, and that are interesting/quirky. I will also look to make my own spells, and to pick spells from other spell lists for them to find and learn. It is a key part of being a wizard, after all!
I am curious as to how you're running level-ups? it sounds like you're homebrewing how many spells an already powerful casting class gets, but limiting them as a DM?
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
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No, I am giving them more spells in their spellbook, but not changing how many they can cast. I don't want to homebrew any spells for this party yet, as the wizard is pretty new and definitely does not want to do any more work in learning D&D than she has to (we're all busy, so it is legit).
I tend to do my level ups retro. Takes a certain amount of downtime and money to achieve that level and gain the skills, spells, attribute increases, etc. 95% of the time, they pick what they want, however every now and then I will push a certain thing on them as their mentor. For example, the rogue is getting Infiltration Expertise, so I will suggest a certain identity she needs to create as it is something I want to use to push a storyline later in the campaign. Other identities are all hers to decide.
Well, it says, "Each time you gain a wizard level, you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots, as shown on the Wizard table. On your adventures, you might find other spells that you can add to your spellbook (see the “Your Spellbook” sidebar)."
I would not read that as a hard limit of two. I do have them find some other spells as they go along as loot.
Sorry, can you explain how "you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free" doesn't read as a limit of two?
Because it says "for free". A limit would say "You can add only two wizard spells of your choice". Nothing in the RAW limits you to more than two, IMO.
No one has suggested otherwise. But additional spells aren't free; they have to be bought or looted, and then they have to be transcribed into the spellbook.
You just asked me how it doesn't read as a limit of two, so you suggested otherwise. And nothing says other spells cannot be free, although I do charge them for the training/spells. I think you are interpreting RAW more strictly than I do.
I absolutely did not suggest otherwise. I was agreeing with and elaborating on a post explaining how to get more spells above and beyond the two you get for free. I really don't want to get into a back and forth because you haven't understood what I've been saying though so I won't belabor it further.
Thanks for the insight in any event. I have not played in along, long time before starting back up about a year ago, and when I di play we were on 2E and 3E, so a lot of what I am used to doing is not necessarily RAW now. Insights are always good.
I think the two of you are saying the same thing from different angles and putting a different concept on the word “limit.” One of you is conceptualizing it as a hard “limit” of two spells per level total, and the other is thinking of it as a limit on the number of free spells.
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I don't think of it as a limit at all. You get two for free, RAW. Other than that, I think it is up to me.
I'd say it's a team effort - you can present them with as many spell scrolls and spells to copy as you like, but it is up to them whether they spend the 50gp and 2 hours needed to note each one into their spellbook. A wizard with only 60gp might hang onto a scroll for a while before they can justify the spend to copy it down. Or, in the hands of another player, they might thirst for new spells like a vampire for blood, and will stop at nothing to get the 50gp to copy it down.
The important thing is to be aware of the balance that 5e is using, as it has the cost for a reason for wizards. A level 20 wizard already knows 44 spells base, so if they learn 3 per level extra from generous DMing, then they could have over 100 by then!
Agree that giving a wizard extra spells is along similar lines to giving a fighter a magic sword or a ranger a magic bow, but it is worth keeping it in mind as them being bonus on top of the 2 they learn for free. The best way, I suspect, is if they are debating which they want to take and there's a third they can't decide over - whichever they don't pick, have it turn up in a scroll a ways along, before they level up again. It's also worth noting that the extra ones can be gathered along the way, rather than all at a level up - again, offsetting the rogue getting cool sneaky shoes and the barbarian getting a painful hat that lets their rage burn for the whole length of time in a dungeon halfway through their level, give the wizard a new spell.
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
That makes a lot of sense. They are not hurting for gold. However, since there are only 3 PCs in the party, I tend to let the wizard be a little more powerful, to offset physical attacks and the lack thereof.