I am currently DMing for five and no matter what I do I can't seem to get them to quiet down and show me more respect. I'm playing with a person that challenges everything I say and I don't know how to get them to believe that my word is final.
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I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past, I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone, there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
Dont deal with it. Your simply going to have to have a talk with the whole group it seems. I understand a little bit of small talk. Challenging DMs rule is uncalled for and should never happen. They need to understand that they are their to play D&D not talk about how their day went. When my group starts getting carried away with small talk, and it happens now and then I just refocus their attention. For example you could call out the player/s who is being disruptive and draw some attention to their character within the game. Try to keep them involved with something all the time. This will help. If not, then its probably not the game for them. Your going to have to weed out the player/s who are not focused and make sure they understand why you guys are there. Its to play D&D. If they dont like it then they can leave the group. If you cannot seem to correct the issue as a whole then you might want to consider finding/starting another group. Sadly not every group jive together well. Its just how it is.
I have a very sharp, loud whistle. Whenever the group I am DMing starts to get out of hand with the chatter I first ask them to chill and if that doesn’t work I just put my lips together and blow. Quiets a room down real fast.
BrokenDM has the right of it, sounds like conversation o’clock to me.
I agree with the "not every group of people is a Party" sentiment.
It may be that not everyone is there to play D&D ( exactly ). It may be that they're there to kick back and decompress - what I've heard of as "kick down the door, kill orcs, beer & pretzels" style. Maybe one ( small ) step away from playing a D&D-esque board game like Talisman. This doesn't sound like your style, so you expect them to take it more seriously, when that isn't their style.
Talk to your Players, figure out what everyone's style and expectations are. They are showing up, so they want some kind of game experience. Figure out what it is; figure out what yours is; figure out if you can find a common ground for everyone. The answer may be "no".
As for your Player who is arguing with everything - when you've had enough, start packing up the game. Make it clear that if they're going to argue with everything, you're done DM'ing. Be willing to walk away from that situation. Tell them that you put a lot of time and effort into the game, which you are providing to them, for free - so if they don't like the way you're running it, they are free to find another group. You'll even refund what they paid you :p Again - it sounds like they want to play under a very particular implementation of the rules ( which may be RAW, and they are the "rules lawyer" type ), which you are not adhering to. Find out their expectations. If they're just the argumentative type, maybe just pull out a character sheet and tell them, "you DM then, I'm playing".
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You shouldn't play with people who dont respect you. Mutual respect is one of the most basic foundations of the game. You dont have it, you don't have a game.
Ask them nicely, making it clear you don't think there's ill-intent. Maybe they just don't recognize that they're being disruptive. If they're mature, they should understand. If not...maybe it's time to find players who are.
If the players are friends outside of the game, they're probably just seeing this as hangout time. In that case, plan an hour or half hour both before and after each game session to just chill and chat. That way, they'll be much more focused on the game when it comes. Works wonders.
Ask them nicely, making it clear you don't think there's ill-intent. Maybe they just don't recognize that they're being disruptive. If they're mature, they should understand. If not...maybe it's time to find players who are.
If the players are friends outside of the game, they're probably just seeing this as hangout time. In that case, plan an hour or half hour both before and after each game session to just chill and chat. That way, they'll be much more focused on the game when it comes. Works wonders.
This! Definitely. New groups, it's not often an issue, but as players start getting to know each other, having time to unwind and small talk before and after session becomes vital to keeping good focus all around during session.
1. Have a chat with them telling them how you feel and what kind of game you’d like to run. Provide any of them with an immediate ‘get out of group’ card if this doesn’t suit. Speak openly and honestly. Ask them to do the same. Maybe they’re bored. Maybe they prefer another DM. Restless players are often not engaged. Ask them pointedly why they are not engaged? Or enough combat. Too much combat. Slow pacing. Take their feedback onboard. Commit to giving it a couple sessions before checking in with everyone again. I wouldn’t single out any individuals in the group conversation lest they get defensive, but happily invite all of them to come to you one on one if they need to. At the end of this heart to heart, introduce...
2. Table etiquette rules, there are hundreds of lists of these out there but my personal list are: A) no cell phones at the table B) keep out of game chatter to a minimum - usually enforced by asking players to only speak in character (depends on the crowd if this works) C) rules disagreements will be entertained between sessions, never in session. Never. DM Retcons and apologies are totally allowed at the start of next session... but no-one has the right to derail a session with rules lawyering. D) be aware of the spotlight and share it with other players E) Listen to each other, and to me - don’t talk over another
these rules are there to help everyone have a better game.
3. During the game enforce these rules. If chaos ensues. Sit back down quietly without saying a word and wait. Let them laugh and joke. Just wait. Be quiet. A quiet dm should be a scary thing. After a while, start clapping your hands together to get their attention. A few “heys!” For good measure... and then right back into the game. At each moment of chaos, give them less time before clapping. If you hit 5 in one night, announce that You’re calling it start packing up.
4. After a couple sessions, ask them if they’re more invested in the story. If they can live with the new etiquette. Be honest too, have they been more engaged. If the one player still corrects you every session, speak to him privately and sincerely. Perhaps even deputize him to run initiative, or all the groups NPCs, or make him tactics leader... just give him something mechanical to occupy him. If he’s a total pain and doesn’t come round after all of the above, tell him he’s about to be booted unless he plays as the others. And then finally, boot him if he doesn’t improve. If one player is usually the cause of the chaos, take that player aside and ask him to be more aware of the other players actions and be more present In game.
good luck. It’s not all that fun, but stick to your guns.
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Rule for drama. Roll for memories. If there isn't a meaningful failure condition, do not roll. Ever. (Perception checks, I'm .... clunk, roll, roll, roll, stop... 14, looking at you... maybe?)
I am currently DMing for five and no matter what I do I can't seem to get them to quiet down and show me more respect. I'm playing with a person that challenges everything I say and I don't know how to get them to believe that my word is final.
I can tell you exactly how to do it (and a few people above have said it similarly). But you're probably not going to like it.
Tell them you don't want to DM anymore. Don't be rude. Just state it, matter of fact. Don't give ultimatums. Nothing like that.
I will assume there are 2 basic possible conditions your campaign is in. Either you are in the middle of a dungeon or some other adventure (I'll just call it "the dungeon" from now on), or else you are in between adventures. I'll deal with each separately below.
Case 1 - In the middle of a dungeon: Next time you get together to play, start the session by saying you have an announcement to make. Tell them very politely, but firmly, that this dungeon you are in the middle of will be your last one, and then someone else will need to take over as DM. When they ask why, tell them that you aren't having any fun at it, and explain, again politely, what you have said above. You feel you are not respected. That they are arguing with you all the time. That this makes your job miserable as a DM and you don't want to be miserable any more. You will finish out this dungeon and then when they get back to town, that is it. Someone else will need to become the DM.
Case 2 - In between adventures: This may be harder, depending on your mode of contact. I feel like this whole thing is better handled face-to-face. If these are people you see regularly, outside of D&D, then you can do the above, except say, "I don't want to DM anymore so who wants to take over?" If it's only offline comms between sessions you will have to do this in an e-mail. It will probably lose some of its punch in e-mail but there's nothing you can do. Resist the urge, in e-mail, to write a novel of your grievances. Just state it simply as you did above in a couple of sentences. Either way, ask who wants to step up to be a DM.
Whichever case you are in (within or between dungeons), one of three things will happen.
First, the players will realize they are being wangrods (to use Colville's expression), and will apologize and agree to change their behavior. This may work long-term, but in my experience what is more likely to happen is they shape up for one session and then slowly go back to their old ways. You may have to do this more than once until it "takes" if that happens.
Second, someone else might be itching to DM and step up to take over. In that case, I say enjoy the break. Make up a PC, play your character, and let the new DM deal with the wangrods. If this happens, I strongly urge you NOT to get revenge by doing back to the DM what he or she was doing to you. Instead, model good player behavior for your group, and relax and have some fun. Odds are the other DM will lose patience with the wangrods a lot faster than you did, and as this happens, may seek your aid in getting the group to change. If they do change, and the new DM wants to go back to playing, you can take back over. Or if not, again, enjoy the vacation.
Third, the group may stop playing D&D altogether. I consider this unlikely unless they really don't want to be playing. But you may have this happen and be prepared for it... for them to say OK, you can stop DMing, but no one steps up. Here you have to decide if you want to go back to taking their abuse, and be a martyr to keep the group going. I'm not a martyr so I would not do this, but everyone has his own threshold.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Disruptions were fairly normal when I was running games as a teenager. Most of us had short attention spans anyways, its just that the DM is more invested. At that time in my life I would close the book, cross my arms, and wait. This would get them on track for awhile. If your group is young then this could be an uphill battle that is never fully resolved.
The good news is that as you meet different gamers over the years, you will meet some that better match your play style. Years after that, you will probably find that gamers who are still playing are more serious about making the most of their table time. Past a certain age, most people just have less free time.
None of that is likely to help you much right now though. There are many ways to say this, and some of the posts above do a great job, but the short answer is always the same: talk to them. Being a DM requires patience, even with a group you love. You have to draw the line somewhere. You’ll just regret playing a game that is nothing but frustrating. That’s no good. Talk to them, and be prepared to quit the group or quit DMing the group (as recommended in some of those well-written posts) if necessary.
Regarding the player who challenges your rulings, you need to be firm. If he is concise and to the point (and correct), then say OK and move on. If it will require looking things up and/or derail whats going on, then overrule and move on. You can Work things out after combat or after the session. If he can’t abide this... I don’t know. I haven't had to deal with this in so long. Skip his turn or something? Its childish, but sometimes children need to be treated like children.
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I am currently DMing for five and no matter what I do I can't seem to get them to quiet down and show me more respect. I'm playing with a person that challenges everything I say and I don't know how to get them to believe that my word is final.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past, I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone, there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
- Litany Against Fear, Frank Herbert
Dont deal with it. Your simply going to have to have a talk with the whole group it seems. I understand a little bit of small talk. Challenging DMs rule is uncalled for and should never happen. They need to understand that they are their to play D&D not talk about how their day went. When my group starts getting carried away with small talk, and it happens now and then I just refocus their attention. For example you could call out the player/s who is being disruptive and draw some attention to their character within the game. Try to keep them involved with something all the time. This will help. If not, then its probably not the game for them. Your going to have to weed out the player/s who are not focused and make sure they understand why you guys are there. Its to play D&D. If they dont like it then they can leave the group. If you cannot seem to correct the issue as a whole then you might want to consider finding/starting another group. Sadly not every group jive together well. Its just how it is.
I have a very sharp, loud whistle. Whenever the group I am DMing starts to get out of hand with the chatter I first ask them to chill and if that doesn’t work I just put my lips together and blow. Quiets a room down real fast.
BrokenDM has the right of it, sounds like conversation o’clock to me.
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I agree with the "not every group of people is a Party" sentiment.
It may be that not everyone is there to play D&D ( exactly ). It may be that they're there to kick back and decompress - what I've heard of as "kick down the door, kill orcs, beer & pretzels" style. Maybe one ( small ) step away from playing a D&D-esque board game like Talisman. This doesn't sound like your style, so you expect them to take it more seriously, when that isn't their style.
Talk to your Players, figure out what everyone's style and expectations are. They are showing up, so they want some kind of game experience. Figure out what it is; figure out what yours is; figure out if you can find a common ground for everyone. The answer may be "no".
As for your Player who is arguing with everything - when you've had enough, start packing up the game. Make it clear that if they're going to argue with everything, you're done DM'ing. Be willing to walk away from that situation. Tell them that you put a lot of time and effort into the game, which you are providing to them, for free - so if they don't like the way you're running it, they are free to find another group. You'll even refund what they paid you :p Again - it sounds like they want to play under a very particular implementation of the rules ( which may be RAW, and they are the "rules lawyer" type ), which you are not adhering to. Find out their expectations. If they're just the argumentative type, maybe just pull out a character sheet and tell them, "you DM then, I'm playing".
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
You shouldn't play with people who dont respect you. Mutual respect is one of the most basic foundations of the game. You dont have it, you don't have a game.
Ask them nicely, making it clear you don't think there's ill-intent. Maybe they just don't recognize that they're being disruptive. If they're mature, they should understand. If not...maybe it's time to find players who are.
If the players are friends outside of the game, they're probably just seeing this as hangout time. In that case, plan an hour or half hour both before and after each game session to just chill and chat. That way, they'll be much more focused on the game when it comes. Works wonders.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
This! Definitely. New groups, it's not often an issue, but as players start getting to know each other, having time to unwind and small talk before and after session becomes vital to keeping good focus all around during session.
1. Have a chat with them telling them how you feel and what kind of game you’d like to run. Provide any of them with an immediate ‘get out of group’ card if this doesn’t suit. Speak openly and honestly. Ask them to do the same. Maybe they’re bored. Maybe they prefer another DM. Restless players are often not engaged. Ask them pointedly why they are not engaged? Or enough combat. Too much combat. Slow pacing. Take their feedback onboard. Commit to giving it a couple sessions before checking in with everyone again. I wouldn’t single out any individuals in the group conversation lest they get defensive, but happily invite all of them to come to you one on one if they need to. At the end of this heart to heart, introduce...
2. Table etiquette rules, there are hundreds of lists of these out there but my personal list are:
A) no cell phones at the table
B) keep out of game chatter to a minimum - usually enforced by asking players to only speak in character (depends on the crowd if this works)
C) rules disagreements will be entertained between sessions, never in session. Never. DM Retcons and apologies are totally allowed at the start of next session... but no-one has the right to derail a session with rules lawyering.
D) be aware of the spotlight and share it with other players
E) Listen to each other, and to me - don’t talk over another
these rules are there to help everyone have a better game.
3. During the game enforce these rules. If chaos ensues. Sit back down quietly without saying a word and wait. Let them laugh and joke. Just wait. Be quiet. A quiet dm should be a scary thing. After a while, start clapping your hands together to get their attention. A few “heys!” For good measure... and then right back into the game. At each moment of chaos, give them less time before clapping. If you hit 5 in one night, announce that You’re calling it start packing up.
4. After a couple sessions, ask them if they’re more invested in the story. If they can live with the new etiquette. Be honest too, have they been more engaged. If the one player still corrects you every session, speak to him privately and sincerely. Perhaps even deputize him to run initiative, or all the groups NPCs, or make him tactics leader... just give him something mechanical to occupy him. If he’s a total pain and doesn’t come round after all of the above, tell him he’s about to be booted unless he plays as the others. And then finally, boot him if he doesn’t improve. If one player is usually the cause of the chaos, take that player aside and ask him to be more aware of the other players actions and be more present In game.
good luck. It’s not all that fun, but stick to your guns.
Rule for drama. Roll for memories.
If there isn't a meaningful failure condition, do not roll. Ever. (Perception checks, I'm .... clunk, roll, roll, roll, stop... 14, looking at you... maybe?)
I can tell you exactly how to do it (and a few people above have said it similarly). But you're probably not going to like it.
Tell them you don't want to DM anymore. Don't be rude. Just state it, matter of fact. Don't give ultimatums. Nothing like that.
I will assume there are 2 basic possible conditions your campaign is in. Either you are in the middle of a dungeon or some other adventure (I'll just call it "the dungeon" from now on), or else you are in between adventures. I'll deal with each separately below.
Case 1 - In the middle of a dungeon: Next time you get together to play, start the session by saying you have an announcement to make. Tell them very politely, but firmly, that this dungeon you are in the middle of will be your last one, and then someone else will need to take over as DM. When they ask why, tell them that you aren't having any fun at it, and explain, again politely, what you have said above. You feel you are not respected. That they are arguing with you all the time. That this makes your job miserable as a DM and you don't want to be miserable any more. You will finish out this dungeon and then when they get back to town, that is it. Someone else will need to become the DM.
Case 2 - In between adventures: This may be harder, depending on your mode of contact. I feel like this whole thing is better handled face-to-face. If these are people you see regularly, outside of D&D, then you can do the above, except say, "I don't want to DM anymore so who wants to take over?" If it's only offline comms between sessions you will have to do this in an e-mail. It will probably lose some of its punch in e-mail but there's nothing you can do. Resist the urge, in e-mail, to write a novel of your grievances. Just state it simply as you did above in a couple of sentences. Either way, ask who wants to step up to be a DM.
Whichever case you are in (within or between dungeons), one of three things will happen.
First, the players will realize they are being wangrods (to use Colville's expression), and will apologize and agree to change their behavior. This may work long-term, but in my experience what is more likely to happen is they shape up for one session and then slowly go back to their old ways. You may have to do this more than once until it "takes" if that happens.
Second, someone else might be itching to DM and step up to take over. In that case, I say enjoy the break. Make up a PC, play your character, and let the new DM deal with the wangrods. If this happens, I strongly urge you NOT to get revenge by doing back to the DM what he or she was doing to you. Instead, model good player behavior for your group, and relax and have some fun. Odds are the other DM will lose patience with the wangrods a lot faster than you did, and as this happens, may seek your aid in getting the group to change. If they do change, and the new DM wants to go back to playing, you can take back over. Or if not, again, enjoy the vacation.
Third, the group may stop playing D&D altogether. I consider this unlikely unless they really don't want to be playing. But you may have this happen and be prepared for it... for them to say OK, you can stop DMing, but no one steps up. Here you have to decide if you want to go back to taking their abuse, and be a martyr to keep the group going. I'm not a martyr so I would not do this, but everyone has his own threshold.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Disruptions were fairly normal when I was running games as a teenager. Most of us had short attention spans anyways, its just that the DM is more invested. At that time in my life I would close the book, cross my arms, and wait. This would get them on track for awhile. If your group is young then this could be an uphill battle that is never fully resolved.
The good news is that as you meet different gamers over the years, you will meet some that better match your play style. Years after that, you will probably find that gamers who are still playing are more serious about making the most of their table time. Past a certain age, most people just have less free time.
None of that is likely to help you much right now though. There are many ways to say this, and some of the posts above do a great job, but the short answer is always the same: talk to them. Being a DM requires patience, even with a group you love. You have to draw the line somewhere. You’ll just regret playing a game that is nothing but frustrating. That’s no good. Talk to them, and be prepared to quit the group or quit DMing the group (as recommended in some of those well-written posts) if necessary.
Regarding the player who challenges your rulings, you need to be firm. If he is concise and to the point (and correct), then say OK and move on. If it will require looking things up and/or derail whats going on, then overrule and move on. You can Work things out after combat or after the session. If he can’t abide this... I don’t know. I haven't had to deal with this in so long. Skip his turn or something? Its childish, but sometimes children need to be treated like children.