I ask because I haven't for my current game but am debating for the next one.
Does anyone know just how much the cost of components is factored into spell balance (more powerful spells cost WAY more to cast)?
I'm not worried about plants or items that are easily bought and carried but I've seen gemstones into the thousands of gp as well as chalices and other crazy stuff you might have to really hunt for.
I follow the rules in the book regarding spellcasting components... anything with a GP value listed needs to actually be present, and if the spell says it consumes the component, then the component can't be used multiple times.
That said... spells are often balanced by costly spell components. Death becomes completely negligible if there is no Diamond cost to resurrect a character. It's a lot easier to revive characters in 5e than other games, but there's still a hard cost to it. If you're homebrewing a spell, you can justify making the spell a bit more powerful than its level would imply if it has a costly spell component.
That said... in my game all the spellcasters carry focuses, so they don't really think about it too much. But I did have the party go to a party in a recent game where they had to turn over their weapons and spell components, so the party members had to creatively grab components for spells from the area around them.
If the spell calls out a component with a cost, then that component must be sourced and purchased. Otherwise I assume it's in the caster's component cast. In other words, I don't require my wizard to go wading through a swamp to harvest 'eye of newt', but if they need a pearl worth 100gp to cast a spell, they best go find one.
I use them. It really does limit the expectations of things like resurrection magic when you tell them they actually need 300gp worth of diamonds for Revivify, and that they cannot just Heroes’ Feast whenever they want.
I use them. It really does limit the expectations of things like resurrection magic when you tell them they actually need 300gp worth of diamonds for Revivify, and that they cannot just Heroes’ Feast whenever they want.
I dont. People seem to continuously use Revivify as a example on this thread, so:
Where are you going to get 300 gp worth of diamonds in a minute? Its a recipe for TPK's when the cleric has to leave and find 300 gp worth of DIAMONDS. Find me some diamonds in a minute worth at least $300.
I use them. It really does limit the expectations of things like resurrection magic when you tell them they actually need 300gp worth of diamonds for Revivify, and that they cannot just Heroes’ Feast whenever they want.
I dont. People seem to continuously use Revivify as a example on this thread, so:
Where are you going to get 300 gp worth of diamonds in a minute? Its a recipe for TPK's when the cleric has to leave and find 300 gp worth of DIAMONDS. Find me some diamonds in a minute worth at least $300.
No, they don’t go find them in a minute, they have to already have the diamonds with them. It’s called planning and forethought.
I think the cost of components are definitely factored into spell balance, it is kind of why they are there. It is part of what makes a spell like revivify or heroes feast special. I never worry about any components other than the ones that have a cost. Pretty much any magic user will have either a focus or a component pouch to handle all the mundane/no cost components, and if anything it's there for flavor. The ones that have a cost associated are different though.
I know some DMs let players retcon and just pay for the cost of the component when they use it. I prefer to make them plan ahead. Depends how in depth you want to get, I guess, but I think of it as another part of being a spellcaster, just like choosing which spells to prepare, etc. I would probably be ok letting them get away with a retcon for something like a 50 GP chromatic orb once or twice, but not for the more expensive/significant/hard to get components. Think about it, if you venture out with only enough diamonds for 2 castings of revivify, that is going to make it much more dramatic than just "subtract 300 GP whenever we need to revive someone."
If it's not super expensive spell components no. When it's just a Tow Magnets (I got it wrong last time :p) to cast mending then I don't really care if the material is present.
I use them. It really does limit the expectations of things like resurrection magic when you tell them they actually need 300gp worth of diamonds for Revivify, and that they cannot just Heroes’ Feast whenever they want.
I dont. People seem to continuously use Revivify as a example on this thread, so:
Where are you going to get 300 gp worth of diamonds in a minute? Its a recipe for TPK's when the cleric has to leave and find 300 gp worth of DIAMONDS. Find me some diamonds in a minute worth at least $300.
I mean, if you take the spell with the anticipation of using it, you should gather the components in advance and carry them with.
Whenever my party comes across an item that the wizard knows they need for a spell they have, or plan to choose in the future, she asks that the party hold on to it and not cash it in. Amusingly the party has nominated the rogue (criminal background) as party treasurer, and he keeps ahold of everything of value. So far, at least, I don't believe the rogue has cheated them out of anything, but I don't see that as my problem to monitor.
Looking forward to potential awkwardness in the future -
Wizard: "Things are looking dire, but fear not, I have the perfect spell! Rockmond [rogue] throw me that diamond you've been keeping hold of." Rogue <awkwardly looks at ground and shuffles feet>
Where are you going to get 300 gp worth of diamonds in a minute? Its a recipe for TPK's when the cleric has to leave and find 300 gp worth of DIAMONDS. Find me some diamonds in a minute worth at least $300.
Why did you prep Revivify without also making sure you had the material components on hand to cast it?
If you want to circumvent costly spell components, just have a level 14+ College of Creation Bard (who has at least one spell slot left) handy.
Joking aside, I think the cost of components is an important part of game balance, except for Continual Flame. Glyph of Warding is a prime example of a spell that could be easily abused were it not for component cost.
I do components and created verbals for all the spells with a verbal component and did a bit of work on where material components come from (shameless self promotion: they're available on drivethru rpg/dms guild), admittedly a lot of material components become irrelevant once you start usiing the various spell foci (arcane focus, druidic focus, holy symbol etc).
Material components are a bit odd in my opinion as some things that have no monetary cost attached to them area common/inocuous but others are pretty rare, for example, Aganazzars Scorcher requires a Red Dragon Scale which they likely are not giving up for free but is otherwise supplied as part of learning the spell and what about Banishment, you need "an item distastful to the target" which is rather hard to quantify.
I use components though wonder if I'm being too easy on foci users. Other thing I'm wondering. It just seems the nature of sorcerer's magic (being a force they're imbued with) sort of goes counter the needs for components. Wizards are basically working out of science manual and need their lab equipment, got it. The more divinely or primordial force worshiping/serving spell casters offering the components to their higher powers, I get that too. But sorcerers, since their magic is something that they're imbued with, and do not study, I just don't follow the need to have like a copper wire to use an antenna when I message. Is it just me or am I missing something?
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I use components though wonder if I'm being too easy on foci users. Other thing I'm wondering. It just seems the nature of sorcerer's magic (being a force they're imbued with) sort of goes counter the needs for components. Wizards are basically working out of science manual and need their lab equipment, got it. The more divinely or primordial force worshiping/serving spell casters offering the components to their higher powers, I get that too. But sorcerers, since their magic is something that they're imbued with, and do not study, I just don't follow the need to have like a copper wire to use an antenna when I message. Is it just me or am I missing something?
I think I tie that concept specifically into the Subtle Spell Metamagic... it implies that, through sheer force of will, a Sorcerer can just kind of "make" magic happen, but it requires a greater input of raw magical force than just what they're able to accomplish from spell slots. Almost no spells state what, specifically, the vocal and somatic component of the spell is.. so maybe for a Sorcerer they just kind of have their own personal version of that separate from a trained wizard, but some types of magic still need some kind of focus to perform successfully.
I use components with a GP cost and I hand wave others away using the focus or component pouch the same way everyone else does.
When I’m playing I have fun with some components though. I’m playing a wizard in Icewind Dale right now and I reached down, scooped up some snow, and melted it in my hand to use as the material component for Tidal Wave, which is a drop of water. It’s fun flavor and it’s a lot more fun than saying, “I cast Tidal Wave.”
I ask because I haven't for my current game but am debating for the next one.
Does anyone know just how much the cost of components is factored into spell balance (more powerful spells cost WAY more to cast)?
I'm not worried about plants or items that are easily bought and carried but I've seen gemstones into the thousands of gp as well as chalices and other crazy stuff you might have to really hunt for.
I follow the rules in the book regarding spellcasting components... anything with a GP value listed needs to actually be present, and if the spell says it consumes the component, then the component can't be used multiple times.
That said... spells are often balanced by costly spell components. Death becomes completely negligible if there is no Diamond cost to resurrect a character. It's a lot easier to revive characters in 5e than other games, but there's still a hard cost to it. If you're homebrewing a spell, you can justify making the spell a bit more powerful than its level would imply if it has a costly spell component.
That said... in my game all the spellcasters carry focuses, so they don't really think about it too much. But I did have the party go to a party in a recent game where they had to turn over their weapons and spell components, so the party members had to creatively grab components for spells from the area around them.
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If the spell calls out a component with a cost, then that component must be sourced and purchased. Otherwise I assume it's in the caster's component cast. In other words, I don't require my wizard to go wading through a swamp to harvest 'eye of newt', but if they need a pearl worth 100gp to cast a spell, they best go find one.
I use them. It really does limit the expectations of things like resurrection magic when you tell them they actually need 300gp worth of diamonds for Revivify, and that they cannot just Heroes’ Feast whenever they want.
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I use the ones that are expensive or are consumed on casting. For the rest, people use foci.
I dont. People seem to continuously use Revivify as a example on this thread, so:
Where are you going to get 300 gp worth of diamonds in a minute? Its a recipe for TPK's when the cleric has to leave and find 300 gp worth of DIAMONDS. Find me some diamonds in a minute worth at least $300.
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No, they don’t go find them in a minute, they have to already have the diamonds with them. It’s called planning and forethought.
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I think the cost of components are definitely factored into spell balance, it is kind of why they are there. It is part of what makes a spell like revivify or heroes feast special. I never worry about any components other than the ones that have a cost. Pretty much any magic user will have either a focus or a component pouch to handle all the mundane/no cost components, and if anything it's there for flavor. The ones that have a cost associated are different though.
I know some DMs let players retcon and just pay for the cost of the component when they use it. I prefer to make them plan ahead. Depends how in depth you want to get, I guess, but I think of it as another part of being a spellcaster, just like choosing which spells to prepare, etc. I would probably be ok letting them get away with a retcon for something like a 50 GP chromatic orb once or twice, but not for the more expensive/significant/hard to get components. Think about it, if you venture out with only enough diamonds for 2 castings of revivify, that is going to make it much more dramatic than just "subtract 300 GP whenever we need to revive someone."
I don't use them unless it is something like Revivify. I feel like it is a good way to balance really good spells, but otherwise it's just annoying.
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If it's not super expensive spell components no. When it's just a Tow Magnets (I got it wrong last time :p) to cast mending then I don't really care if the material is present.
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I mean, if you take the spell with the anticipation of using it, you should gather the components in advance and carry them with.
Whenever my party comes across an item that the wizard knows they need for a spell they have, or plan to choose in the future, she asks that the party hold on to it and not cash it in. Amusingly the party has nominated the rogue (criminal background) as party treasurer, and he keeps ahold of everything of value. So far, at least, I don't believe the rogue has cheated them out of anything, but I don't see that as my problem to monitor.
Looking forward to potential awkwardness in the future -
Wizard: "Things are looking dire, but fear not, I have the perfect spell! Rockmond [rogue] throw me that diamond you've been keeping hold of."
Rogue <awkwardly looks at ground and shuffles feet>
Why did you prep Revivify without also making sure you had the material components on hand to cast it?
Mending isn’t a strip of cloth, it’s two magnets.
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That’s a shame. I find the game gets way more fun in the 2nd tier of play.
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If you want to circumvent costly spell components, just have a level 14+ College of Creation Bard (who has at least one spell slot left) handy.
Joking aside, I think the cost of components is an important part of game balance, except for Continual Flame. Glyph of Warding is a prime example of a spell that could be easily abused were it not for component cost.
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I do components and created verbals for all the spells with a verbal component and did a bit of work on where material components come from (shameless self promotion: they're available on drivethru rpg/dms guild), admittedly a lot of material components become irrelevant once you start usiing the various spell foci (arcane focus, druidic focus, holy symbol etc).
Material components are a bit odd in my opinion as some things that have no monetary cost attached to them area common/inocuous but others are pretty rare, for example, Aganazzars Scorcher requires a Red Dragon Scale which they likely are not giving up for free but is otherwise supplied as part of learning the spell and what about Banishment, you need "an item distastful to the target" which is rather hard to quantify.
I use components though wonder if I'm being too easy on foci users. Other thing I'm wondering. It just seems the nature of sorcerer's magic (being a force they're imbued with) sort of goes counter the needs for components. Wizards are basically working out of science manual and need their lab equipment, got it. The more divinely or primordial force worshiping/serving spell casters offering the components to their higher powers, I get that too. But sorcerers, since their magic is something that they're imbued with, and do not study, I just don't follow the need to have like a copper wire to use an antenna when I message. Is it just me or am I missing something?
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I think I tie that concept specifically into the Subtle Spell Metamagic... it implies that, through sheer force of will, a Sorcerer can just kind of "make" magic happen, but it requires a greater input of raw magical force than just what they're able to accomplish from spell slots. Almost no spells state what, specifically, the vocal and somatic component of the spell is.. so maybe for a Sorcerer they just kind of have their own personal version of that separate from a trained wizard, but some types of magic still need some kind of focus to perform successfully.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
I use components with a GP cost and I hand wave others away using the focus or component pouch the same way everyone else does.
When I’m playing I have fun with some components though. I’m playing a wizard in Icewind Dale right now and I reached down, scooped up some snow, and melted it in my hand to use as the material component for Tidal Wave, which is a drop of water. It’s fun flavor and it’s a lot more fun than saying, “I cast Tidal Wave.”
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