My friend who has taken now 3 years (my mistake, he has corrected me) insists that if it takes DnD that long to write a campaign book (he worked out a team write a campaign setting in about 9 months) then there is nothing wrong with him taking this time to create a perfect setting.
I would point out here that at WotC they have a creative team working together to continuously work to produce and REVISE content with multiple perspectives lending to produce a better final result. I would trust a single creative shut in a room for 3 years with no imput from anyone else who thinks their work is perfect a lot less. That person is likely in for a rude awakening.
I’ve found the best home brew campaigns happen when your players help you build the world with their suggestions, support, and character ideas.
1+ on this. I spent months working on my world, and it was only when players started giving me ideas and requesting things like "I want to be from a cult who worships a gold dragon", or "I want to be fro ma mages university" that the most interesting things started getting made. An entire war between heroes and dragons in ancient times was written in just so one character could play as a monk from a golden-dragon worshipping monastery! And it's awesome! An entire system of sewers and a branch of the thieves guild which uses it for smuggling has been added to a town, just because a character fell off a boat! The central part of my world hasn't even been touched yet, and it's already paling in comparison to what I've built with the players involved!
My friend who has taken now 3 years (my mistake, he has corrected me) insists that if it takes DnD that long to write a campaign book (he worked out a team write a campaign setting in about 9 months) then there is nothing wrong with him taking this time to create a perfect setting.
I would point out here that at WotC they have a creative team working together to continuously work to produce and REVISE content with multiple perspectives lending to produce a better final result. I would trust a single creative shut in a room for 3 years with no imput from anyone else who thinks their work is perfect a lot less. That person is likely in for a rude awakening.
Hence my need to refuse to play in his campaign because my nature means I will pull it all apart as much as I can in game. I have a feeling deep down he won't actually ever get to running his campaign, but he will have an entire world mapped out (he is creating online maps for every area apparently). I think in his mind he wants an entire world he can run on foundry and allow people to roam as if they are in world of warcraft. Which is a thing someone can do, doesn't mean you should lol.
I have stopped mapping out entire systems of dungeons, because I run TOTM except for combat I only map out areas where fighting might happen, everything else I just describe, it has made the number of maps and the size they need to be shrink considerably.
Personally the 6-8 weeks was largely because thats how long it took from the single player who asked me to DM a campaign to actually get her friends sorted and organised ready to go. I had a vision for the opening act of the campaign and the land it was going to happen in in my head.
My friend who has taken now 3 years (my mistake, he has corrected me) insists that if it takes DnD that long to write a campaign book (he worked out a team write a campaign setting in about 9 months) then there is nothing wrong with him taking this time to create a perfect setting. I have almost been tempted to say I will play in his campaign but I know I would be an awful player because my aim would be to try and ignore everything he has spent his time on and force him to make more and more stuff up on the fly.
Happy to see there are a majority who agree with me here :)
Imagine during the 3 years it takes the pros to write a module they are play testing for at least 2.5. Not to say they only spend 6 months on world building and writing, but they overlap with playing (probably by multiple groups).
My friend who has taken now 3 years (my mistake, he has corrected me) insists that if it takes DnD that long to write a campaign book (he worked out a team write a campaign setting in about 9 months) then there is nothing wrong with him taking this time to create a perfect setting. I have almost been tempted to say I will play in his campaign but I know I would be an awful player because my aim would be to try and ignore everything he has spent his time on and force him to make more and more stuff up on the fly.
Better yet, engage with his lore at every opportunity. Let him monologue. And sink in his chair when the players fall asleep.
I think in his mind he wants an entire world he can run on foundry and allow people to roam as if they are in world of warcraft. Which is a thing someone can do, doesn't mean you should lol.
I agree. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.
I’ve got a friend who’s going to DM a one shot and his problem is the exact opposite of your friends super preparation timeline. He’s written a dungeon map, four sentences, and he says he’s worried that people are going to enjoy it so much he’ll need to come up with a campaign on the fly and that’s too much pressure.
My friend who has taken now 3 years (my mistake, he has corrected me) insists that if it takes DnD that long to write a campaign book (he worked out a team write a campaign setting in about 9 months) then there is nothing wrong with him taking this time to create a perfect setting.
I would point out here that at WotC they have a creative team working together to continuously work to produce and REVISE content with multiple perspectives lending to produce a better final result. I would trust a single creative shut in a room for 3 years with no imput from anyone else who thinks their work is perfect a lot less. That person is likely in for a rude awakening.
Hence my need to refuse to play in his campaign because my nature means I will pull it all apart as much as I can in game. I have a feeling deep down he won't actually ever get to running his campaign, but he will have an entire world mapped out (he is creating online maps for every area apparently). I think in his mind he wants an entire world he can run on foundry and allow people to roam as if they are in world of warcraft. Which is a thing someone can do, doesn't mean you should lol.
Though I will say that purposefully trying to break down the world because you know he put a lot of work into it and cares very deeply about it, seems kind of a D move. If it doesn't grab you it doesn't grab you (and it's likely so overdeveloped that it probably won't), but purposefully running their time seems disrespectful.
I am big on worldbuilding, but I have no illusions that it's about 80% for myself and 20% for my players.
I do think there can be a benefit going deep in a few places you know the party will be. If your campaign is going to spend a few levels in a city, it's nice to have a few factions and NPCs fleshed out so they can reference each other and react to each other and make the world feel more alive and connected. Its nice to have a map populated with locations to visit so the party isn't just walking east until they find something. I have had various levels of success trying to improv this kind of thing and I'm just a lot more comfortable with some thought and structure behind it. I can also improv better if I have a "safety net" of planned content to fall back on.
That being said, there's a huge benefit to not setting anything in stone until your PCs have experienced it. It lets you react and change things for the better in the moment. The more everything is fleshed out and connected, the more restricted you are in terms of improvising. I have played in "fully-built" worlds and the inflexibility becomes extremely apparent. It's not much fun on either side of the screen.
I think this is not really a one-size-fits-all kind of thing. I'd love to fully improv a campaign on 30 min of prep, but I can't do that now. My brain just freezes up too much in the moment. I'm not going to say that 2 years is too much time to prep because it's a game in itself and as long as the guy is enjoying it then it has value. But when/if the game ever starts, he needs to be willing to let a lot of that stuff go if it makes the game better, and after that much investment it can be hard to do.
My friend who has taken now 3 years (my mistake, he has corrected me) insists that if it takes DnD that long to write a campaign book (he worked out a team write a campaign setting in about 9 months) then there is nothing wrong with him taking this time to create a perfect setting.
I would point out here that at WotC they have a creative team working together to continuously work to produce and REVISE content with multiple perspectives lending to produce a better final result. I would trust a single creative shut in a room for 3 years with no imput from anyone else who thinks their work is perfect a lot less. That person is likely in for a rude awakening.
Hence my need to refuse to play in his campaign because my nature means I will pull it all apart as much as I can in game. I have a feeling deep down he won't actually ever get to running his campaign, but he will have an entire world mapped out (he is creating online maps for every area apparently). I think in his mind he wants an entire world he can run on foundry and allow people to roam as if they are in world of warcraft. Which is a thing someone can do, doesn't mean you should lol.
Though I will say that purposefully trying to break down the world because you know he put a lot of work into it and cares very deeply about it, seems kind of a D move. If it doesn't grab you it doesn't grab you (and it's likely so overdeveloped that it probably won't), but purposefully running their time seems disrespectful.
And this is why I probably won’t play in it. Read my comment I don’t want to be a d and I know if I am in the world knowing the time and effort and more importantly how much he goes on about it to me and how amazing it will be, I will be far to tempted to pick the holes in game. So I won’t play so I don’t so this.
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I would point out here that at WotC they have a creative team working together to continuously work to produce and REVISE content with multiple perspectives lending to produce a better final result. I would trust a single creative shut in a room for 3 years with no imput from anyone else who thinks their work is perfect a lot less. That person is likely in for a rude awakening.
1+ on this. I spent months working on my world, and it was only when players started giving me ideas and requesting things like "I want to be from a cult who worships a gold dragon", or "I want to be fro ma mages university" that the most interesting things started getting made. An entire war between heroes and dragons in ancient times was written in just so one character could play as a monk from a golden-dragon worshipping monastery! And it's awesome! An entire system of sewers and a branch of the thieves guild which uses it for smuggling has been added to a town, just because a character fell off a boat! The central part of my world hasn't even been touched yet, and it's already paling in comparison to what I've built with the players involved!
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Hence my need to refuse to play in his campaign because my nature means I will pull it all apart as much as I can in game. I have a feeling deep down he won't actually ever get to running his campaign, but he will have an entire world mapped out (he is creating online maps for every area apparently). I think in his mind he wants an entire world he can run on foundry and allow people to roam as if they are in world of warcraft. Which is a thing someone can do, doesn't mean you should lol.
Imagine during the 3 years it takes the pros to write a module they are play testing for at least 2.5. Not to say they only spend 6 months on world building and writing, but they overlap with playing (probably by multiple groups).
Better yet, engage with his lore at every opportunity. Let him monologue. And sink in his chair when the players fall asleep.
I agree. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.
I’ve got a friend who’s going to DM a one shot and his problem is the exact opposite of your friends super preparation timeline. He’s written a dungeon map, four sentences, and he says he’s worried that people are going to enjoy it so much he’ll need to come up with a campaign on the fly and that’s too much pressure.
Though I will say that purposefully trying to break down the world because you know he put a lot of work into it and cares very deeply about it, seems kind of a D move. If it doesn't grab you it doesn't grab you (and it's likely so overdeveloped that it probably won't), but purposefully running their time seems disrespectful.
I am big on worldbuilding, but I have no illusions that it's about 80% for myself and 20% for my players.
I do think there can be a benefit going deep in a few places you know the party will be. If your campaign is going to spend a few levels in a city, it's nice to have a few factions and NPCs fleshed out so they can reference each other and react to each other and make the world feel more alive and connected. Its nice to have a map populated with locations to visit so the party isn't just walking east until they find something. I have had various levels of success trying to improv this kind of thing and I'm just a lot more comfortable with some thought and structure behind it. I can also improv better if I have a "safety net" of planned content to fall back on.
That being said, there's a huge benefit to not setting anything in stone until your PCs have experienced it. It lets you react and change things for the better in the moment. The more everything is fleshed out and connected, the more restricted you are in terms of improvising. I have played in "fully-built" worlds and the inflexibility becomes extremely apparent. It's not much fun on either side of the screen.
I think this is not really a one-size-fits-all kind of thing. I'd love to fully improv a campaign on 30 min of prep, but I can't do that now. My brain just freezes up too much in the moment. I'm not going to say that 2 years is too much time to prep because it's a game in itself and as long as the guy is enjoying it then it has value. But when/if the game ever starts, he needs to be willing to let a lot of that stuff go if it makes the game better, and after that much investment it can be hard to do.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
And this is why I probably won’t play in it. Read my comment I don’t want to be a d and I know if I am in the world knowing the time and effort and more importantly how much he goes on about it to me and how amazing it will be, I will be far to tempted to pick the holes in game. So I won’t play so I don’t so this.