To me this sounds that dungeon master is saying "No" to other player's fun. Some players want to test different kind of things and see how their actions impact the world. Why they cant try to make a bomb at level 3?
I disagree. Every player gets something they have to be responsible for creating and tracking. Players that don’t have the designation of “DM” have their characters, players with the designation of DM have their world… with the added responsibility of the entire rest of the multiverse (including the weather)… and about 10× as much work to do between sessions as the rest of the players combined. If the DM says there are no tanks, then their are no tanks. The DM is also a player, and their fun matters too.
This sounds like one player trying to say “NO” to the DM’s fun. The thing is… if the DM’s not having fun, then they have o reason to do all of that work. Considering that Players outnumber DM’s about 100:1 (or more), that means if the DM’s not having fun, then nobody else is either because hunting for a new DM is not fun. (Trust me, I’ve had fun, it wasn’t like that. In fact, I would rate looking for a new DM along on par with paying taxes and anything to do with the DMV.) So, I’ma say that “Player X” should stop making DMing less fun for Wispfall.
I think that you may need to establish to your player that no means no, not try harder. Set it as a boundary. If tanks are truly that important to him, he can find a different game with a different DM that will allow it. Games are meant to be fun for everyone present. It sounds like introducing a tank may increase this player's perception of fun, but it sounds like it will decrease yours, and fun shouldn't be at another person's expense. Being hassled is stressful, and it sounds like he's hassling you because you're not giving him the answer he wants.
If he really continues his behaviour with divine intervention even after having you both have a conversation about respecting boundaries and how his fun in the game shouldn't come at the expense of yours, send a small fishtank (or something similiar like a tanktop or tankard as a "this won't go the way you want even if you ask in character" warning) instead and rethink him being in the game if he can't respect you as a fellow player (and DM). If you really don't want to immediately remove him from the game, maybe tell him it's his last warning (previous one being the conversation), and you won't give him another, you'll just ask him to leave. If he truly wants to test to see if you will ask him to leave by trying again, he does not respect you at all, and that is a giant red flag. Personally, I wouldn't play with someone who doesn't respect me like that - especially after they've been given opportunities to do better.
Yeah they are. They also want to make bombs and start war at lvl 3 :.)
If they won't take no for an answer, then you have little choice but to "give them what they want"
Introduce a one-use fae wishing well to grant their requests. Have the character transported to another plane of existence where such things actually exist, with no way back. Then either have them create a brand new character if you think they've learned their lesson, or kick the disruptive player out of the campaign if they haven't
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Ok I'll try and be a little more constructive... which is a little difficult as the situation seems so childish... I'm taking it "tanks" are not part of your fantasy setting even the concept of a steam engine in your world would be revolutionary... The nearest thing to a Tank in the forgotten realms setting I guess would be Infernal War Machines
maybe that campaign is something to consider?... but honestly I'm thinking you need to have the talk... about what adventure "your" going to be doing and if the player want's to participate in it or not
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“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
Another thing with this player is that I've played other campaigns with them and they are a consistent problem player. They have done. Questionable things... and known to be sometimes a bit of a murder hobo so i'm really hesitant with the fact of them having a tank
DMing is like volunteering, or a part-time internship, but without any of the supporting one’s community or potential career advancement. It’s basically like a part-time job without the income.
They show up, invest 2-4 hours into the campaign, and then don’t give it another thought until next session. As a DM I likely spend 1-2 hours every day doing something campaign related (worldbuilding, NPC development, etc.). They very likely have absolutely no idea how much of a pain in the backside DMing can be, so they really have no idea what a proverbial slap in the face it is to have someone clown around and 💩 all over it every week.
You need to pull them aside and tell them to stop disrespecting all of the time, effort, and hard work that you invest on a weekly basis to provide a game for them, or they should find a table that’s “a better fit for their play style.” (That’s a corpo speak way of saying “don’t let the door hit you in the 455 (aka @$$) on the way out.”) If you point blank let them know how dissed you are by their clownin,’ they will most likely have a come-to-reason moment and apologize. If they don’t, and keep clownin,’ it’s time for the 🥾.
Just pull back the curtain a little bit and say hey, as the DM, I don't know how to run that in a balanced and fun way. The dm is a human being and is trying to make the game work. Giving one player a free tank is, they should see quite clearly, incredibly unbalanced.
Another thing with this player is that I've played other campaigns with them and they are a consistent problem player. They have done. Questionable things... and known to be sometimes a bit of a murder hobo so i'm really hesitant with the fact of them having a tank
Is 'not playing with this person' an option? Because he sounds like the kind of player a game is better off without.
Another thing with this player is that I've played other campaigns with them and they are a consistent problem player. They have done. Questionable things... and known to be sometimes a bit of a murder hobo so i'm really hesitant with the fact of them having a tank
DMing is like volunteering, or a part-time internship, but without any of the supporting one’s community or potential career advancement. It’s basically like a part-time job without the income.
They show up, invest 2-4 hours into the campaign, and then don’t give it another thought until next session. As a DM I likely spend 1-2 hours every day doing something campaign related (worldbuilding, NPC development, etc.). They very likely have absolutely no idea how much of a pain in the backside DMing can be, so they really have no idea what a proverbial slap in the face it is to have someone clown around and 💩 all over it every week.
You need to pull them aside and tell them to stop disrespecting all of the time, effort, and hard work that you invest on a weekly basis to provide a game for them, or they should find a table that’s “a better fit for their play style.” (That’s a corpo speak way of saying “don’t let the door hit you in the 455 (aka @$$) on the way out.”) If you point blank let them know how dissed you are by their clownin,’ they will most likely have a come-to-reason moment and apologize. If they don’t, and keep clownin,’ it’s time for the 🥾.
" Leave them with the idea that you want to play D&D with them" at around 16:30....what if you DON'T want to play D&D with them?
As mom would say: “honesty is the best policy.” Or, in other words, this.👇
If you don't want to play D&D with someone at the table, then don't. Either back out of the group entirely, or ask someone else to DM for a while.
"Bad D&D is worse than no D&D."
That’s why I like that corpo-speak phrasing of “not a good fit,” it’s very similar to the break-up line “it’s not you, it’s me,” but without it being a boldfaced lie.
Another thing with this player is that I've played other campaigns with them and they are a consistent problem player. They have done. Questionable things... and known to be sometimes a bit of a murder hobo so i'm really hesitant with the fact of them having a tank
Is 'not playing with this person' an option? Because he sounds like the kind of player a game is better off without.
Isn‘t it always an option unless they have a gun to your head or it’s your sister-in-law or something?
I was on the phone to one of my party members because of we're all friends and he said because of divine intervention or something that cleric's can have as a spell that can just give him a tank and I don't feel comfortable with it all. He's really persistent about it and I keep saying no. What should I do???
Gods can only provide divine intervention based on their realms of expertise. Even if tanks did exist, would it be in the god's interest or capabilities to provide one?
It sounds like the player is basically trying to play a different game. They've read "A god can do it" and they are assuming that their god is all-powerful and can do anything.
There's also something which is confusing me here - you say they want to make bombs at level 3, but they have a level 10 cleric ability?
Making bombs is a 50/50 one for me - ultimatley, bombs are just area effect weapons and vials of flammable oils have been used for centuries for this sort of thing. I'd allow characters such as artificers to work towards making bombs. Hell, just putting fireball on a glyph of warding is a landmine, so it's already sort of there! Allowing them to make some form of large (unwieldly) device which can cast fireball when it lands is not overly unreasonable, unless they have an airship!
The tank is far more gamebreaking, though not impossible to overcome. A tank is about 3-5 times as wide as a typical vehicle in dnd. The roads will not be meant for it, and there's every chance of it ending up in the bottom of a ravine. If they decide, as you anticipate, to go on a rampage, then anyone casting heat metal will cause the tank to explode, make a new character. They might end up besmirching the name of their god with their actions - and if their god can intervene to give them the tank, they can intervene to take it away. I'd give them 5 minutes of rampage and then have them suddenly appear before a very angry god. The god would then inform them that they will spend the next however long being reincarnated as each of their victims, and living their life, feeling their pain, before moving onto the next, as their punishment. Make a new character.
Alternatively, the god gives them a tank - and says "Take this and go as my avatar, to >insert obscure location/rival gods temple here<, and wreak vengeance upon them. If the character refuses, they get smote, make a new character. If they accept, their character is leaving the party in their tank and thus, make a new character.
Then tell them straight that their character was removed from the game because they were causing too many problems, and that you trust that they will make a character who will fit into the game better this time. Basically make it clear that this time it was their character - next time it's them. Being kicked from the game, that is - don't make death threats to real people!
For further info:
are they level 3 or 10?
What domain are they? (I'm guessing War?)
Why do they want a tank? Perhaps a heavy war wagon with a team of 8 horses and an armoured wagon with arrow slits and castellations on the roof and so forth (designed for use by a dozen people or so) is much more realistic a reward from a god.
If you do relent and give them a tank - make the next quest underground, so they have to leave the tank. Then have them encounter a Sphinx or be petrified or somehow skip several years. Then have them return to the surface to find that Goblins found the tank and built more, and now run the world in a military dictatorship - if you want to take the game in that route!
In short, the options are:
1: Say no, and make sure they know you mean it.
2: Give them the tank, and make it inconvenient
3: Give them the tank, and make it take them out of the game (tank falls, you die; god asks you to take the tank to a place; tank is destroyed by people with heat metal)
4: Give them the tank and use it in the future of your game. Just roll with it.
Divine Intervention is for seeking assistance not gaining gifts. If you're running a campaign in which the gods are real then the typical way things work would be for clerics to sacrifice gifts to their gods, not try to work things the other way around.
Wow, this player apparently need to be told that it's YOUR world he/she is playing in and as such, things are according to your rules and guidelines. SO, they DEMAND a tank. Cool, a large, armored metal shell, with some sort of track-like devices affixed to either side appears in the clearing. A thorough inspections shows a long, cylindrical device protrudes from the top bit, which appears as if it might move. The creating sits, awaiting your next action.
Player: I get in my tank!! DM: you manage to figure out the hatch operation and climb inside. It is cramped, stuffy and there are many levers, buttons and switches around. Player" I aim the gun! DM: how? Player: Um, I operate the controls? DM: You push buttons, pull levers and even turn a few crank-like handles you find. Nothing happens, the device remains inert. Player: Oh, lol, I START the tank. DM: Your press the button labeled "Start" and nothing happens. Player: WTF??!?! Dm: You have summoned a mechanical device or machine that requires fuel, batteries and other things not found in this world, By your own choice, you have created a wonderful landmark in the area, nothing more. Player : (likely nerd rages at this point) I wanted I wanted I wanted DM: And you GOT. Any further idiocy you wish to demand, after being told NO already? Also, your God is now angry with you, for bothering them with such selfish foolishness. All spell attacks will be at disadvantage until you find a way to redeem yourself in their eyes.
I have a grand total of ZERO issue with getting sarcastic and harsh when a player will NOT stop being a pain. You want to try and ruin the fun for all the rest of us? I am going to have a TON of fun, at YOUR expense and have everyone else see what being a pain the the butt results in. Obviously the soft talk is first, but your posts indicate that you've already done that AND that this player is know trouble. Flip that table around and be a problem for them for a time, see how much they appreciate it.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
To me this sounds that dungeon master is saying "No" to other player's fun. Some players want to test different kind of things and see how their actions impact the world. Why they cant try to make a bomb at level 3?
Some worlds don't have bombs or technology at all. Things may work differently. The DM decides what is in the world they play in.
A player saying I want a tank, a tactical nuke and a laser rifle for their 10th level light cleric and "it works due to divine intervention (nyah, nyah)" is not a player trying to have "fun" within the context of the game the DM is offering to run unless those items already exist in that game world and the character knows it.
There are other players in the game. DO any of them have any interest in modern or futuristic technology in a nominally medieval setting?
How does the player's character have any idea that any such devices might even remotely exist?
Anyway, asking for modern/futuristic technology in a D&D game which doesn't have it, is just a player being disruptive not one trying to have "fun" with the rest of the players and party.
To me this sounds that dungeon master is saying "No" to other player's fun. Some players want to test different kind of things and see how their actions impact the world. Why they cant try to make a bomb at level 3?
Some worlds don't have bombs or technology at all. Things may work differently. The DM decides what is in the world they play in.
Indeed!
If a player wants to have fun with tanks and bombs, then there are plenty of "modern" RPGs out there which they might find satisfies this particular way of their wanting to have fun.
Okay, I understand the context better now. So the player wants something that does not exist in the world. Maybe you can still use this dream of "tank" as content? Like gathering parts for steam engine or something similiar.
So this player has ended up getting kicked from my campaign as they were very problematic player though I did end up giving them a fishtank a couple weeks before though he did end up smashing it against a wall-
So this player has ended up getting kicked from my campaign as they were very problematic player though I did end up giving them a fishtank a couple weeks before though he did end up smashing it against a wall-
Having to do that is just the worst feeling. But in the end it will be better for everyone.
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I disagree. Every player gets something they have to be responsible for creating and tracking. Players that don’t have the designation of “DM” have their characters, players with the designation of DM have their world… with the added responsibility of the entire rest of the multiverse (including the weather)… and about 10× as much work to do between sessions as the rest of the players combined. If the DM says there are no tanks, then their are no tanks. The DM is also a player, and their fun matters too.
This sounds like one player trying to say “NO” to the DM’s fun. The thing is… if the DM’s not having fun, then they have o reason to do all of that work. Considering that Players outnumber DM’s about 100:1 (or more), that means if the DM’s not having fun, then nobody else is either because hunting for a new DM is not fun. (Trust me, I’ve had fun, it wasn’t like that. In fact, I would rate looking for a new DM along on par with paying taxes and anything to do with the DMV.) So, I’ma say that “Player X” should stop making DMing less fun for Wispfall.
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I think that you may need to establish to your player that no means no, not try harder. Set it as a boundary. If tanks are truly that important to him, he can find a different game with a different DM that will allow it. Games are meant to be fun for everyone present. It sounds like introducing a tank may increase this player's perception of fun, but it sounds like it will decrease yours, and fun shouldn't be at another person's expense. Being hassled is stressful, and it sounds like he's hassling you because you're not giving him the answer he wants.
If he really continues his behaviour with divine intervention even after having you both have a conversation about respecting boundaries and how his fun in the game shouldn't come at the expense of yours, send a small fishtank (or something similiar like a tanktop or tankard as a "this won't go the way you want even if you ask in character" warning) instead and rethink him being in the game if he can't respect you as a fellow player (and DM). If you really don't want to immediately remove him from the game, maybe tell him it's his last warning (previous one being the conversation), and you won't give him another, you'll just ask him to leave. If he truly wants to test to see if you will ask him to leave by trying again, he does not respect you at all, and that is a giant red flag. Personally, I wouldn't play with someone who doesn't respect me like that - especially after they've been given opportunities to do better.
If they won't take no for an answer, then you have little choice but to "give them what they want"
Introduce a one-use fae wishing well to grant their requests. Have the character transported to another plane of existence where such things actually exist, with no way back. Then either have them create a brand new character if you think they've learned their lesson, or kick the disruptive player out of the campaign if they haven't
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Ok I'll try and be a little more constructive... which is a little difficult as the situation seems so childish... I'm taking it "tanks" are not part of your fantasy setting even the concept of a steam engine in your world would be revolutionary... The nearest thing to a Tank in the forgotten realms setting I guess would be Infernal War Machines
and I suppose getting one is covered in The campaign Baldur's Gate Descent into Avernice
maybe that campaign is something to consider?... but honestly I'm thinking you need to have the talk... about what adventure "your" going to be doing and if the player want's to participate in it or not
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
DMing is like volunteering, or a part-time internship, but without any of the supporting one’s community or potential career advancement. It’s basically like a part-time job without the income.
They show up, invest 2-4 hours into the campaign, and then don’t give it another thought until next session. As a DM I likely spend 1-2 hours every day doing something campaign related (worldbuilding, NPC development, etc.). They very likely have absolutely no idea how much of a pain in the backside DMing can be, so they really have no idea what a proverbial slap in the face it is to have someone clown around and 💩 all over it every week.
You need to pull them aside and tell them to stop disrespecting all of the time, effort, and hard work that you invest on a weekly basis to provide a game for them, or they should find a table that’s “a better fit for their play style.” (That’s a corpo speak way of saying “don’t let the door hit you in the 455 (aka @$$) on the way out.”) If you point blank let them know how dissed you are by their clownin,’ they will most likely have a come-to-reason moment and apologize. If they don’t, and keep clownin,’ it’s time for the 🥾.
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Just pull back the curtain a little bit and say hey, as the DM, I don't know how to run that in a balanced and fun way. The dm is a human being and is trying to make the game work. Giving one player a free tank is, they should see quite clearly, incredibly unbalanced.
If you don't want to play D&D with someone at the table, then don't. Either back out of the group entirely, or ask someone else to DM for a while.
"Bad D&D is worse than no D&D."
Is 'not playing with this person' an option? Because he sounds like the kind of player a game is better off without.
As mom would say: “honesty is the best policy.” Or, in other words, this.👇
That’s why I like that corpo-speak phrasing of “not a good fit,” it’s very similar to the break-up line “it’s not you, it’s me,” but without it being a boldfaced lie.
Isn‘t it always an option unless they have a gun to your head or it’s your sister-in-law or something?
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Gods can only provide divine intervention based on their realms of expertise. Even if tanks did exist, would it be in the god's interest or capabilities to provide one?
Seems like the problem is with the player, must suggestion is to remove them from the game. OR deal with them.
It sounds like the player is basically trying to play a different game. They've read "A god can do it" and they are assuming that their god is all-powerful and can do anything.
There's also something which is confusing me here - you say they want to make bombs at level 3, but they have a level 10 cleric ability?
Making bombs is a 50/50 one for me - ultimatley, bombs are just area effect weapons and vials of flammable oils have been used for centuries for this sort of thing. I'd allow characters such as artificers to work towards making bombs. Hell, just putting fireball on a glyph of warding is a landmine, so it's already sort of there! Allowing them to make some form of large (unwieldly) device which can cast fireball when it lands is not overly unreasonable, unless they have an airship!
The tank is far more gamebreaking, though not impossible to overcome. A tank is about 3-5 times as wide as a typical vehicle in dnd. The roads will not be meant for it, and there's every chance of it ending up in the bottom of a ravine. If they decide, as you anticipate, to go on a rampage, then anyone casting heat metal will cause the tank to explode, make a new character. They might end up besmirching the name of their god with their actions - and if their god can intervene to give them the tank, they can intervene to take it away. I'd give them 5 minutes of rampage and then have them suddenly appear before a very angry god. The god would then inform them that they will spend the next however long being reincarnated as each of their victims, and living their life, feeling their pain, before moving onto the next, as their punishment. Make a new character.
Alternatively, the god gives them a tank - and says "Take this and go as my avatar, to >insert obscure location/rival gods temple here<, and wreak vengeance upon them. If the character refuses, they get smote, make a new character. If they accept, their character is leaving the party in their tank and thus, make a new character.
Then tell them straight that their character was removed from the game because they were causing too many problems, and that you trust that they will make a character who will fit into the game better this time. Basically make it clear that this time it was their character - next time it's them. Being kicked from the game, that is - don't make death threats to real people!
For further info:
are they level 3 or 10?
What domain are they? (I'm guessing War?)
Why do they want a tank? Perhaps a heavy war wagon with a team of 8 horses and an armoured wagon with arrow slits and castellations on the roof and so forth (designed for use by a dozen people or so) is much more realistic a reward from a god.
If you do relent and give them a tank - make the next quest underground, so they have to leave the tank. Then have them encounter a Sphinx or be petrified or somehow skip several years. Then have them return to the surface to find that Goblins found the tank and built more, and now run the world in a military dictatorship - if you want to take the game in that route!
In short, the options are:
1: Say no, and make sure they know you mean it.
2: Give them the tank, and make it inconvenient
3: Give them the tank, and make it take them out of the game (tank falls, you die; god asks you to take the tank to a place; tank is destroyed by people with heat metal)
4: Give them the tank and use it in the future of your game. Just roll with it.
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Divine Intervention is for seeking assistance not gaining gifts.
If you're running a campaign in which the gods are real then the typical way things work would be for clerics to sacrifice gifts to their gods, not try to work things the other way around.
Wow, this player apparently need to be told that it's YOUR world he/she is playing in and as such, things are according to your rules and guidelines. SO, they DEMAND a tank. Cool, a large, armored metal shell, with some sort of track-like devices affixed to either side appears in the clearing. A thorough inspections shows a long, cylindrical device protrudes from the top bit, which appears as if it might move. The creating sits, awaiting your next action.
Player: I get in my tank!!
DM: you manage to figure out the hatch operation and climb inside. It is cramped, stuffy and there are many levers, buttons and switches around.
Player" I aim the gun!
DM: how?
Player: Um, I operate the controls?
DM: You push buttons, pull levers and even turn a few crank-like handles you find. Nothing happens, the device remains inert.
Player: Oh, lol, I START the tank.
DM: Your press the button labeled "Start" and nothing happens.
Player: WTF??!?!
Dm: You have summoned a mechanical device or machine that requires fuel, batteries and other things not found in this world, By your own choice, you have created a wonderful landmark in the area, nothing more.
Player : (likely nerd rages at this point) I wanted I wanted I wanted
DM: And you GOT. Any further idiocy you wish to demand, after being told NO already? Also, your God is now angry with you, for bothering them with such selfish foolishness. All spell attacks will be at disadvantage until you find a way to redeem yourself in their eyes.
I have a grand total of ZERO issue with getting sarcastic and harsh when a player will NOT stop being a pain. You want to try and ruin the fun for all the rest of us? I am going to have a TON of fun, at YOUR expense and have everyone else see what being a pain the the butt results in. Obviously the soft talk is first, but your posts indicate that you've already done that AND that this player is know trouble. Flip that table around and be a problem for them for a time, see how much they appreciate it.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Some worlds don't have bombs or technology at all. Things may work differently. The DM decides what is in the world they play in.
A player saying I want a tank, a tactical nuke and a laser rifle for their 10th level light cleric and "it works due to divine intervention (nyah, nyah)" is not a player trying to have "fun" within the context of the game the DM is offering to run unless those items already exist in that game world and the character knows it.
There are other players in the game. DO any of them have any interest in modern or futuristic technology in a nominally medieval setting?
How does the player's character have any idea that any such devices might even remotely exist?
Anyway, asking for modern/futuristic technology in a D&D game which doesn't have it, is just a player being disruptive not one trying to have "fun" with the rest of the players and party.
Give them the tank, with no fuel, no ammo, oh yeah, and make it a septic tank, full of poop. Problem solved.
Indeed!
If a player wants to have fun with tanks and bombs, then there are plenty of "modern" RPGs out there which they might find satisfies this particular way of their wanting to have fun.
Okay, I understand the context better now. So the player wants something that does not exist in the world. Maybe you can still use this dream of "tank" as content? Like gathering parts for steam engine or something similiar.
So this player has ended up getting kicked from my campaign as they were very problematic player though I did end up giving them a fishtank a couple weeks before though he did end up smashing it against a wall-
Having to do that is just the worst feeling. But in the end it will be better for everyone.