My player's paladin wants to multi class into rogue and he has decent reasons in character but another player is already a rogue would you guys allow it.
Why are you polling a bunch of people in the DMs Only section of the forum? What does your DM think? A lot, I'd almost say "most" DMs aren't really that big on policing party composition. That said, some DMs have a sense/need of defined "roles" in their game, so they may be reluctant to having two rogues they'd see as competing with each other, though I think mechanically speaking they'd more often than not complement each other through help and double teaming for sneak attack proximity damage, so maybe the DM is worried about this dynamic duo damage dynamo. In the end it comes down to discussing this with your DM and the results of a poll on D&D Beyond is not potent ammunition for that discussion. You may think your character has a decent reason, but in the end it's your DM you must entertain with those [withheld in thread] reasons, not "well the internet says..."
Why are you polling a bunch of people in the DMs Only section of the forum? What does your DM think? A lot, I'd almost say "most" DMs aren't really that big on policing party composition. That said, some DMs have a sense/need of defined "rolls" in their game, so they may be reluctant to having two rogues they'd see as competing with each other, though I think mechanically speaking they'd more often than not complement each other through help and double teaming for sneak attack proximity damage, so maybe the DM is worried about this dynamic duo damage dynamo. In the end it comes down to discussing this with your DM and the results of a poll on D&D Beyond is not potent ammunition for that discussion. You may think your character has a decent reason, but in the end it's your DM you must entertain with those [withheld in thread] reasons, not "well the internet says..."
I have the feeling he is the DM and wants to ask if it's ok to let his player do it.
To the question, as a DM I feel completely OK with that. The fact that he is multiclassing alone is enough to differentiate. He is probably going to pick a different subclass as well.
I would, but I would also make a point to talk to the players and ensure this isn't going to lead to inter-party conflict. It's possible the Paladin is simply looking to grab some skills/expertise to better help the party. Rogues get a huge variety of skills to gain proficiency and expertise in, so it is entirely possible to have 2 Rogues in the party and still not have overlapping skills. This prevents anyone stealing the glory from the other.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Got it, so your party's paladin. Stylewise, when I'm writing as a DM I don't write "my character" it's always "a player's paladin" to avoid just this sort confusion. Anyway, it wasn't clear to me and there are so many players who treat the DMs Subforum as some sort of "court" to try their DMs.
That said, aside from "up to the DM" everything in my post still stands. Just instead of it being on the DM, with you as the DM it's on you to articulate the reasons. What is the problem you're trying to prevent by denying the multiclass? The only thing I can think of is some DMs think two of one class makes a redundancy. That _may_ be true, but with Rogues its quite the opposite. They can team up and help each other during the usual dungeon roguery like trap and secrets searches and lock and trap disarming. Plus they become the damage dynamo delivering their tornado of finesse and sneak damage on who they choose regardless of what the rest of the front liners want to do. So it comes down again to what harm do you see in this MCing? Is there something in the Paladin class progression vital for this party that dipping or going rogue will somehow frustrate?
I suppose some DMs want to protect the player character's "capstone" experience. If that is the case, and you think the player may not be aware of the blunt true limit of multiclassing (never reaching apex class features) you could give them that admonishment, but still give them the decision.
If you don't simply say "no" to multiclassing, and otherwise allow it, you need to have some compelling reason to deny the player in my book.
I would ask the play or the rogue if he has any concerns about it if he has then the thre of you have a chat to discuss what those concerns are and how they can be resolved. As a DM I wouldn't have an issue with it but I wouldn't want one of the players to walk out of the game because he feels another is filling his role.
1st) You can only multi-class one additional class
2nd) The first class you pick is the only class that can get an ASI
It keeps the players from going into single to triple dips and building a monstrosity of destruction. It also helps to deal with the a number of ASI's for certain classes that become wrecking balls already.
I'll allow you to do anything you want in your game. Go nuts!
Seriously, I don't see an issue with having more than one class in the same game. There's enough flexibility in play that two PCs of the same class/subclass can be played differently enough that it shouldn't be a problem. Let alone a multi-classed PC. If you're super concerned about it being a factor at your table, talk about it with the entire group. If someone has some stiff feelings about it, mediate a compromise.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
It's more how WotC set up multiclassing, the idea that you could do a single dip into fighter with 13 dex and 13 int Wizard and have a tank mage in half plate, shield being AC 19 (dex +2 from 14 it will be bumped up there is no strength and dexterity be 13 for fighter just one of them) and wand at level 2, doesn't sit well with a lot of players from a theme perspective. I get the Elder Scrolls did the tank mage routine, but a lot of other fantasy games and novels you just don't see it and it just feels off setting wise.
The game is already exceptionally easy for the players and when you min max you might as well be the DM at that point for a number of combos as long as the DM is playing the game by its rules and not making up their own on the fly to compensate. Multiclassing, Spell Casting, Weapon Proficiency and Armor wearing needs to be addressed in the future.
Just pointing out that the OP is specifically talking about a Paladin picking up rogue levels and any cautions about that specific case. Sure, one can pull out what some assert are worse case scenario game breaking disaster builds, but does that really apply to say a Vengeance Paladin taking on some rogue levels to be more like Batman? Or any other Paladin rogue dip or MC?
Why does portential's mage have a wand at level 2 (I think that's what they're saying)? But really what does a "tanked out mage" with an arguable overpowered access to magic items have to do with a Paladin wanting to go rogue?
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
wand = focus item. Now that we've went off your derailment of the case.
Why would it be good to have an level 2 character eligible for half plate mail, shield, +2 AC from Dex, full proficiency with weapons and is a wizard now. It gives him an advantage on concentration not only by higher possible base AC + proficiency with constitution saving throws for concentration and proficiency in strength saving throws will help him from getting pushed or grappled. That use case is going to be mess as the game progresses. And he's not going to have much of any detriments to play from a single level dip.
Multi-classing needs to be reviewed. If someone wants a tank caster, then WotC have to figure out the requirements for it and limitations on it as well.
But this thread isn't about tank casters. What does your instance of alleged game breakiness have to do with a Paladin who wants to go rogue? Yes, they're both multiclassing but I just don't see the gloom and doom in the question.
If anyone, including the OP looked at the numerous class discussion forums on this thread, they'll find that the level of hysteria you're trying to inflate into this discussion is largely nonexistent for many a player. Hence the survey results on this particular thread. I mean the only way for your invective to really have any further weight is to assert all the folks in favor of this dip are somehow misguidedly playing, wait, this is DMsOnly so running the game wrong. If you really think that, well, that's a very insular perspective.
It's a poll on multi-classing yes/no. What does the next follow up thread limit a thread about multi-classing yes/no mean you don't talk about multi-classing. Your post seems counter intuitive to the actual poll questions.
Interesting gate keeping on your part. So replying to the thread, and discussing ways to handle multi-classing and listing out problems with multiclassing as set by 5E means other DM's are running the game wrong? Does that make any sense to you really? I'm listing out a problem with multi-classing not telling people how to play the game, let alone gate keeping, which for some reason you decided to do.
You're baiting with gatekeeping is a little tiresome, not to go all Andre the Giant on you but it's like "you use that word, I don't think [actually] it doesn't mean what you think it means." I mean, in most communication the context is key. This is a thread that began with a poll; but a careful reader will also notice the OP written concurrently with that poll asking for specific game advice. Only a few days ago. Context is key, for good discussion and good gaming. But you do what you will, describing your perspective as insular is not gatekeeping in the slightest, it was pointing out for the benefit of the posterity of this discussion that your perspective is most certainly an outlier. Most players don't worry about multiclass. That doesn't mean, nor can it be possibly inferred from my posting, an edict that you must not worry about multiclass.
So again, what does your uparmored game ending martial dipped wizard say to a Paladin with good story reason to dip rogue? That question is far from shutting you down or cutting you off or whatever provokes you to keep saying gate keeping. It's actually a facilitative effort to better incorporate your perspective into an ongoing discussion. But any notion that you think I have the capacity to control you or your thinking to lead you to cry gatekeeping, well I honestly think it would be good for you to reread some fairy tales rewritten for modern technical discursive spaces, because I can't really help you with those sorts of elementary instructives. There's no wolf here.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
My player's paladin wants to multi class into rogue and he has decent reasons in character but another player is already a rogue would you guys allow it.
That’s👆the magic phrase right there, and the best reason there is to multiclass. As long as he’s not looking to horn in on the existing rogue’s schtick it should be okay. (But not the same subclass.)
My player's paladin wants to multi class into rogue and he has decent reasons in character but another player is already a rogue would you guys allow it.
Mythology Master
Why are you polling a bunch of people in the DMs Only section of the forum? What does your DM think? A lot, I'd almost say "most" DMs aren't really that big on policing party composition. That said, some DMs have a sense/need of defined "roles" in their game, so they may be reluctant to having two rogues they'd see as competing with each other, though I think mechanically speaking they'd more often than not complement each other through help and double teaming for sneak attack proximity damage, so maybe the DM is worried about this dynamic duo damage dynamo. In the end it comes down to discussing this with your DM and the results of a poll on D&D Beyond is not potent ammunition for that discussion. You may think your character has a decent reason, but in the end it's your DM you must entertain with those [withheld in thread] reasons, not "well the internet says..."
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
No what I meant was I am the DM should have made that clearer.
Mythology Master
I have the feeling he is the DM and wants to ask if it's ok to let his player do it.
To the question, as a DM I feel completely OK with that. The fact that he is multiclassing alone is enough to differentiate. He is probably going to pick a different subclass as well.
Thats what I meant thanks.
Mythology Master
I would, but I would also make a point to talk to the players and ensure this isn't going to lead to inter-party conflict. It's possible the Paladin is simply looking to grab some skills/expertise to better help the party. Rogues get a huge variety of skills to gain proficiency and expertise in, so it is entirely possible to have 2 Rogues in the party and still not have overlapping skills. This prevents anyone stealing the glory from the other.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Alright
Mythology Master
Got it, so your party's paladin. Stylewise, when I'm writing as a DM I don't write "my character" it's always "a player's paladin" to avoid just this sort confusion. Anyway, it wasn't clear to me and there are so many players who treat the DMs Subforum as some sort of "court" to try their DMs.
That said, aside from "up to the DM" everything in my post still stands. Just instead of it being on the DM, with you as the DM it's on you to articulate the reasons. What is the problem you're trying to prevent by denying the multiclass? The only thing I can think of is some DMs think two of one class makes a redundancy. That _may_ be true, but with Rogues its quite the opposite. They can team up and help each other during the usual dungeon roguery like trap and secrets searches and lock and trap disarming. Plus they become the damage dynamo delivering their tornado of finesse and sneak damage on who they choose regardless of what the rest of the front liners want to do. So it comes down again to what harm do you see in this MCing? Is there something in the Paladin class progression vital for this party that dipping or going rogue will somehow frustrate?
I suppose some DMs want to protect the player character's "capstone" experience. If that is the case, and you think the player may not be aware of the blunt true limit of multiclassing (never reaching apex class features) you could give them that admonishment, but still give them the decision.
If you don't simply say "no" to multiclassing, and otherwise allow it, you need to have some compelling reason to deny the player in my book.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Alright this is my first "real" game as a DM so I wanted to get some advice from more experienced DMs.
Mythology Master
I would ask the play or the rogue if he has any concerns about it if he has then the thre of you have a chat to discuss what those concerns are and how they can be resolved. As a DM I wouldn't have an issue with it but I wouldn't want one of the players to walk out of the game because he feels another is filling his role.
There's no rule that says that more than one character can't have the same class.
Yes with limitations.
1st) You can only multi-class one additional class
2nd) The first class you pick is the only class that can get an ASI
It keeps the players from going into single to triple dips and building a monstrosity of destruction. It also helps to deal with the a number of ASI's for certain classes that become wrecking balls already.
I'll allow you to do anything you want in your game. Go nuts!
Seriously, I don't see an issue with having more than one class in the same game. There's enough flexibility in play that two PCs of the same class/subclass can be played differently enough that it shouldn't be a problem. Let alone a multi-classed PC. If you're super concerned about it being a factor at your table, talk about it with the entire group. If someone has some stiff feelings about it, mediate a compromise.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
It's more how WotC set up multiclassing, the idea that you could do a single dip into fighter with 13 dex and 13 int Wizard and have a tank mage in half plate, shield being AC 19 (dex +2 from 14 it will be bumped up there is no strength and dexterity be 13 for fighter just one of them) and wand at level 2, doesn't sit well with a lot of players from a theme perspective. I get the Elder Scrolls did the tank mage routine, but a lot of other fantasy games and novels you just don't see it and it just feels off setting wise.
The game is already exceptionally easy for the players and when you min max you might as well be the DM at that point for a number of combos as long as the DM is playing the game by its rules and not making up their own on the fly to compensate. Multiclassing, Spell Casting, Weapon Proficiency and Armor wearing needs to be addressed in the future.
Just pointing out that the OP is specifically talking about a Paladin picking up rogue levels and any cautions about that specific case. Sure, one can pull out what some assert are worse case scenario game breaking disaster builds, but does that really apply to say a Vengeance Paladin taking on some rogue levels to be more like Batman? Or any other Paladin rogue dip or MC?
Why does portential's mage have a wand at level 2 (I think that's what they're saying)? But really what does a "tanked out mage" with an arguable overpowered access to magic items have to do with a Paladin wanting to go rogue?
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
wand = focus item. Now that we've went off your derailment of the case.
Why would it be good to have an level 2 character eligible for half plate mail, shield, +2 AC from Dex, full proficiency with weapons and is a wizard now. It gives him an advantage on concentration not only by higher possible base AC + proficiency with constitution saving throws for concentration and proficiency in strength saving throws will help him from getting pushed or grappled. That use case is going to be mess as the game progresses. And he's not going to have much of any detriments to play from a single level dip.
Multi-classing needs to be reviewed. If someone wants a tank caster, then WotC have to figure out the requirements for it and limitations on it as well.
But this thread isn't about tank casters. What does your instance of alleged game breakiness have to do with a Paladin who wants to go rogue? Yes, they're both multiclassing but I just don't see the gloom and doom in the question.
If anyone, including the OP looked at the numerous class discussion forums on this thread, they'll find that the level of hysteria you're trying to inflate into this discussion is largely nonexistent for many a player. Hence the survey results on this particular thread. I mean the only way for your invective to really have any further weight is to assert all the folks in favor of this dip are somehow misguidedly playing, wait, this is DMsOnly so running the game wrong. If you really think that, well, that's a very insular perspective.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
It's a poll on multi-classing yes/no. What does the next follow up thread limit a thread about multi-classing yes/no mean you don't talk about multi-classing. Your post seems counter intuitive to the actual poll questions.
Interesting gate keeping on your part. So replying to the thread, and discussing ways to handle multi-classing and listing out problems with multiclassing as set by 5E means other DM's are running the game wrong? Does that make any sense to you really? I'm listing out a problem with multi-classing not telling people how to play the game, let alone gate keeping, which for some reason you decided to do.
You're baiting with gatekeeping is a little tiresome, not to go all Andre the Giant on you but it's like "you use that word,
I don't think[actually] it doesn't mean what you think it means." I mean, in most communication the context is key. This is a thread that began with a poll; but a careful reader will also notice the OP written concurrently with that poll asking for specific game advice. Only a few days ago. Context is key, for good discussion and good gaming. But you do what you will, describing your perspective as insular is not gatekeeping in the slightest, it was pointing out for the benefit of the posterity of this discussion that your perspective is most certainly an outlier. Most players don't worry about multiclass. That doesn't mean, nor can it be possibly inferred from my posting, an edict that you must not worry about multiclass.So again, what does your uparmored game ending martial dipped wizard say to a Paladin with good story reason to dip rogue? That question is far from shutting you down or cutting you off or whatever provokes you to keep saying gate keeping. It's actually a facilitative effort to better incorporate your perspective into an ongoing discussion. But any notion that you think I have the capacity to control you or your thinking to lead you to cry gatekeeping, well I honestly think it would be good for you to reread some fairy tales rewritten for modern technical discursive spaces, because I can't really help you with those sorts of elementary instructives. There's no wolf here.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
That’s👆the magic phrase right there, and the best reason there is to multiclass. As long as he’s not looking to horn in on the existing rogue’s schtick it should be okay. (But not the same subclass.)
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