The party come across a party of orcs/ogres/other creature at their CR level, and that group is starting to roast a goat for their dinner. The PC goat can then (telepathically) ask for help from the rest of the party...
The party come across a party of orcs/ogres/other creature at their CR level, and that group is starting to roast a goat for their dinner. The PC goat can then (telepathically) ask for help from the rest of the party...
the party is too cautious and too late. the goose goat is cooked and half eaten by the time everyone is in place to act. their raid is otherwise successful and results in one captured orc with information. an orc with very strange eyes. an orc with a very, very odd way of speaking common... "he-e-e-ey, you guys! anyone else fe-e-el like eating a tin ca-a-a-an? no? just me-e-e-eh, me-e-eh, me?"
"...darn. no survivors. we all agree there are no survivors, right?"
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Just re-flavor Centaur as a giant goat with the head and torso of a humanoid. Easy peasy.
This is how we got Wemics in 1982, lol.
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Suggest they play a Satyr, and give them a limited wildshape as a goat. Then you can drop the telepathy thing, but they can still be a goat some of the time (or even most of the time, if they want).
The idea of playing as a full animal is pretty unsuitable for 5e as a system. Can they use weapons? Armor? Potions? If they're a spellcaster, how do they do somatic and material components? Or even verbal?
I spoke with the player and he is cool with making a different character. He didn't mind much at all.
That's great. The problem is solved then, because you don't have to deal with all the difficulty of trying to incorporate a goat character into a D&D campaign and making sure everyone is alright with it + it doesn't mess with the campaign theme.
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Character can use any stat block of CR 1/2 or lower (goat stat block is CR 0) and select from 3 sidekick class options, the Expert, the Spellcaster, the Warrior and levels up at the same rate as the rest of the party. Sure the sidekick classes are a bit more limited than the normal class options open to players but then again he is the one who wants to play a goat.
As for how you would introduce the goat into the game it really depends on you and the location of the game, maybe he is the companion or pet of one of the other characters, maybe the group encounters him in the woods leashed to a stake as bait for a monster when he speaks out telepathically to the group asking for help, hell maybe he just wanders in to camp one day and starts chewing on one of the player's clothing, plenty of ways you could introduce him into the game it really comes down to you.
Of course as the DM you can always just say no and that the character would not fit the game you are trying to run but there are plenty of ways you could make it work.
For ways to make a goat into the flavour you're after (And I will say, my choice, without severe input from the player, would be "don't"):
1: Armourer artificer centaur goat. The goat is awakened and can speak common. The Armourer armour replaces missing limbs, so it's not much of a stretch to say that, whilst wearing the armour, the goat has arms. Us a Centaur or a Satyr as the base for the character.
2: Astral Self Monk. You can grow ethereal arms for a time, allowing the goat to have arms.
3: Sorcorer, with Subtle Spell to remove somatic and verbal components.
For ways to make a goat into the flavour you're after (And I will say, my choice, without severe input from the player, would be "don't"):
1: Armourer artificer centaur goat. The goat is awakened and can speak common. The Armourer armour replaces missing limbs, so it's not much of a stretch to say that, whilst wearing the armour, the goat has arms. Us a Centaur or a Satyr as the base for the character.
2: Astral Self Monk. You can grow ethereal arms for a time, allowing the goat to have arms.
3: Sorcorer, with Subtle Spell to remove somatic and verbal components.
Sorcerer with Aberrant Mind would give the telepathy he wanted. Maybe the goat has been the subject of weird experiments?
I don't know why everyone is ignoring the sidekick rules in Tasha's cauldron of Everything, feels like they were written explicitly for situations like this?
You guys are making this way more complicated than it needs to be.
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I don't know why everyone is ignoring the sidekick rules in Tasha's cauldron of Everything, feels like they were written explicitly for situations like this?
You guys are making this way more complicated than it needs to be.
Sidekicks are not used as primary player character, more as NPC. But if the player is ok with playing a Sidekick, it could still be viable but somewhat limited since they don't get as many featres and feats a PC get.
I don't know why everyone is ignoring the sidekick rules in Tasha's cauldron of Everything, feels like they were written explicitly for situations like this?
You guys are making this way more complicated than it needs to be.
Sidekicks are not used as primary player character, more as NPC. But if the player is ok with playing a Sidekick, it could still be viable but somewhat limited since they don't get as many featres and feats a PC get.
Taken directly from Tasha's
You decide who plays the sidekick. Here are some options:
A player plays the sidekick as their second character—ideal when you have only one or two players.
A player plays the sidekick as their only character—ideal for a player who wants a character who’s simpler than a typical player character.
The players jointly play the sidekick.
You play the sidekick.
Even if this line wasn't explicitly stated there still would be nothing stopping a player from playing a sidekick as their primary character, DM sets the rules and even if the player was ok with playing the standard stat block of a goat with no options for extra abilities or level ups DM can make that happen if they truly wish to. Hell before the sidekick rules were introduced I have played in a game where we occasionally had a player drop in and play a Spectator that would follow the warlock as an agent of his patron.
Yeah the player has a more limited pool of abilities as a sidekick class than the typical player character but that is kind of what he signed up for when he asked to play as a goat. I don't think every player character in the party needs to be equal and if a player wants to play a character with a more limited set of abilities then why not let them? This to me seems like the perfect application of the sidekick rules, great for players who want to play a bit of an oddball character that does not fit the standard humanoid model, like a Goat or a Cat or something a little more out there like a Flumph or something.
Nothing stops a player from running a Sidekick as its sole character, except the DM, but it's not an option i would go to unless the player specifically indicate wanting to play a simpler character with fewer options. Or hand out a goat statblock. By default players make full PC and as DM i wouldn't remove options simply because a player has a character concept it want to play, i would rather look at what everyone have access and use reflavoring. Hence why i mentioned earlier a Ghostwise Halfling Monk reflavored as a goat with telepathic powers.
You can run your table however you like however if you are looking for a way to turn a goat into a playable character for one of your players then the sidekick rules in Tasha's are already a great fit, no real need to complicate it more than that.
I don't think I am the one taking away options here, by expanding the choice to include sidekick roles and non standard playable race or creature options we have expanded the range of playable characters rather than limited it. You are the one limiting options by saying that the character has to fit one of the standard race/class player templates with the slight concession that you can imagine the character is a goat rather than a halfling or whatever racial option you choose to "reflavour".
There is no reason that a character created with the sidekick rules can't be a proper player character and can't be a fun character to play at that, if they player is asking to play a goat then I would already think that would come with the expectations that their character is going to have some limitations when compared to the standard adventurer, lack of opposable thumbs for example.
That said as much as we are opening the options for non standard creatures as playable options the character does still need to make at least some sense in the setting, an awakened goat with telepathy as silly as it is can still work in most D&D settings, a goat that studied martial arts or trained to become a paladin (unless it is some homebrewed Goatman race or a Satyr) is probably taking the piss. Can you make it work? Of course, but whether or not it fits the setting I guess that is up to you.
clearly, there are a number of creative solutions for catering to / incorporating / drawing in a player seemingly bent on disruptive mischief. however, since seeing the tasha's line about who controls the sidekick (i thought they were always a DM thing), i favor the sidekick approach for one very important reason: the player is required to roll a real character as well. whether the sidekick gets boring, old, eaten or transcends this plane another way, the player has a backup they've been keeping warm. momentum of party and plot may be conserved in the moment.
goodbye supposedly telepathic goat who constantly chewed the scenery, hello bard who acts as if he can talk to animals and also constantly chews the scenery.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
I don't see why a character created with the sidekick rules can't be a "real" character, I mean lets assume good faith and assume that the player wants to play a goat because they think it will be a fun idea and have a good way to incorporate it into the game that is not some disruptive ploy to derail the game or a gimmick that will get tired halfway through the first session, I do not see why this could not be considered a real player character that the player could have fun playing and the other players enjoy having along.
Maybe we are all getting caught up with loaded terms like "sidekick" and the fact that going with this option leaves the player with a simpler ability pool than other classes, the sidekick rules still give the character a fairly robust set of abilities and options beyond what is merely in the creature stat block and there is still plenty of ways they could contribute to the party. D&D to me isn't about who can create the coolest and most useful character in the group, it is about having fun with unique and interesting character ideas and sometimes playing a character with a massive flaw or quirk can lead to some interesting situations.
Personally I have always liked the idea of playing a Flumph or having one as a party member, have not had a chance to play one yet but If I did I would be ok with using the sidekick rules.
The party come across a party of orcs/ogres/other creature at their CR level, and that group is starting to roast a goat for their dinner. The PC goat can then (telepathically) ask for help from the rest of the party...
the party is too cautious and too late. the
goosegoat is cooked and half eaten by the time everyone is in place to act. their raid is otherwise successful and results in one captured orc with information. an orc with very strange eyes. an orc with a very, very odd way of speaking common... "he-e-e-ey, you guys! anyone else fe-e-el like eating a tin ca-a-a-an? no? just me-e-e-eh, me-e-eh, me?""...darn. no survivors. we all agree there are no survivors, right?"
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
This is how we got Wemics in 1982, lol.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Suggest they play a Satyr, and give them a limited wildshape as a goat. Then you can drop the telepathy thing, but they can still be a goat some of the time (or even most of the time, if they want).
The idea of playing as a full animal is pretty unsuitable for 5e as a system. Can they use weapons? Armor? Potions? If they're a spellcaster, how do they do somatic and material components? Or even verbal?
That's great. The problem is solved then, because you don't have to deal with all the difficulty of trying to incorporate a goat character into a D&D campaign and making sure everyone is alright with it + it doesn't mess with the campaign theme.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.There are examples of animals being full members of a party in various anime and books (Happy, Rawl, Luna, etc)
Yes they are special because they have some form of communication - telepathy or some language that only a few people know (Shyriiwook)
I am more tempted now to let my players do something wierd as long as they understand that being an animal has many many limitations.
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Then again isn't this the sort of thing the sidekick rules in Tasha's were made for?
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/tcoe/dungeon-masters-tools#CreatingaSidekick
Character can use any stat block of CR 1/2 or lower (goat stat block is CR 0) and select from 3 sidekick class options, the Expert, the Spellcaster, the Warrior and levels up at the same rate as the rest of the party. Sure the sidekick classes are a bit more limited than the normal class options open to players but then again he is the one who wants to play a goat.
As for how you would introduce the goat into the game it really depends on you and the location of the game, maybe he is the companion or pet of one of the other characters, maybe the group encounters him in the woods leashed to a stake as bait for a monster when he speaks out telepathically to the group asking for help, hell maybe he just wanders in to camp one day and starts chewing on one of the player's clothing, plenty of ways you could introduce him into the game it really comes down to you.
Of course as the DM you can always just say no and that the character would not fit the game you are trying to run but there are plenty of ways you could make it work.
You could reflavor a Ghostwise Halfling Monk as a small telepathic goal with decent unarmored and unarmed capabilities.
For ways to make a goat into the flavour you're after (And I will say, my choice, without severe input from the player, would be "don't"):
1: Armourer artificer centaur goat. The goat is awakened and can speak common. The Armourer armour replaces missing limbs, so it's not much of a stretch to say that, whilst wearing the armour, the goat has arms. Us a Centaur or a Satyr as the base for the character.
2: Astral Self Monk. You can grow ethereal arms for a time, allowing the goat to have arms.
3: Sorcorer, with Subtle Spell to remove somatic and verbal components.
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
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Sorcerer with Aberrant Mind would give the telepathy he wanted. Maybe the goat has been the subject of weird experiments?
I don't know why everyone is ignoring the sidekick rules in Tasha's cauldron of Everything, feels like they were written explicitly for situations like this?
You guys are making this way more complicated than it needs to be.
Custom Lineage. Telekinetic feat.
Everything else is flavour and RP.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/tcoe/dungeon-masters-tools#Sidekicks
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Sidekicks are not used as primary player character, more as NPC. But if the player is ok with playing a Sidekick, it could still be viable but somewhat limited since they don't get as many featres and feats a PC get.
Taken directly from Tasha's
You decide who plays the sidekick. Here are some options:
Even if this line wasn't explicitly stated there still would be nothing stopping a player from playing a sidekick as their primary character, DM sets the rules and even if the player was ok with playing the standard stat block of a goat with no options for extra abilities or level ups DM can make that happen if they truly wish to. Hell before the sidekick rules were introduced I have played in a game where we occasionally had a player drop in and play a Spectator that would follow the warlock as an agent of his patron.
Yeah the player has a more limited pool of abilities as a sidekick class than the typical player character but that is kind of what he signed up for when he asked to play as a goat. I don't think every player character in the party needs to be equal and if a player wants to play a character with a more limited set of abilities then why not let them? This to me seems like the perfect application of the sidekick rules, great for players who want to play a bit of an oddball character that does not fit the standard humanoid model, like a Goat or a Cat or something a little more out there like a Flumph or something.
Nothing stops a player from running a Sidekick as its sole character, except the DM, but it's not an option i would go to unless the player specifically indicate wanting to play a simpler character with fewer options. Or hand out a goat statblock. By default players make full PC and as DM i wouldn't remove options simply because a player has a character concept it want to play, i would rather look at what everyone have access and use reflavoring. Hence why i mentioned earlier a Ghostwise Halfling Monk reflavored as a goat with telepathic powers.
You can run your table however you like however if you are looking for a way to turn a goat into a playable character for one of your players then the sidekick rules in Tasha's are already a great fit, no real need to complicate it more than that.
I don't think I am the one taking away options here, by expanding the choice to include sidekick roles and non standard playable race or creature options we have expanded the range of playable characters rather than limited it. You are the one limiting options by saying that the character has to fit one of the standard race/class player templates with the slight concession that you can imagine the character is a goat rather than a halfling or whatever racial option you choose to "reflavour".
There is no reason that a character created with the sidekick rules can't be a proper player character and can't be a fun character to play at that, if they player is asking to play a goat then I would already think that would come with the expectations that their character is going to have some limitations when compared to the standard adventurer, lack of opposable thumbs for example.
That said as much as we are opening the options for non standard creatures as playable options the character does still need to make at least some sense in the setting, an awakened goat with telepathy as silly as it is can still work in most D&D settings, a goat that studied martial arts or trained to become a paladin (unless it is some homebrewed Goatman race or a Satyr) is probably taking the piss. Can you make it work? Of course, but whether or not it fits the setting I guess that is up to you.
clearly, there are a number of creative solutions for catering to / incorporating / drawing in a player seemingly bent on disruptive mischief. however, since seeing the tasha's line about who controls the sidekick (i thought they were always a DM thing), i favor the sidekick approach for one very important reason: the player is required to roll a real character as well. whether the sidekick gets boring, old, eaten or transcends this plane another way, the player has a backup they've been keeping warm. momentum of party and plot may be conserved in the moment.
goodbye supposedly telepathic goat who constantly chewed the scenery, hello bard who acts as if he can talk to animals and also constantly chews the scenery.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
I don't see why a character created with the sidekick rules can't be a "real" character, I mean lets assume good faith and assume that the player wants to play a goat because they think it will be a fun idea and have a good way to incorporate it into the game that is not some disruptive ploy to derail the game or a gimmick that will get tired halfway through the first session, I do not see why this could not be considered a real player character that the player could have fun playing and the other players enjoy having along.
Maybe we are all getting caught up with loaded terms like "sidekick" and the fact that going with this option leaves the player with a simpler ability pool than other classes, the sidekick rules still give the character a fairly robust set of abilities and options beyond what is merely in the creature stat block and there is still plenty of ways they could contribute to the party. D&D to me isn't about who can create the coolest and most useful character in the group, it is about having fun with unique and interesting character ideas and sometimes playing a character with a massive flaw or quirk can lead to some interesting situations.
Personally I have always liked the idea of playing a Flumph or having one as a party member, have not had a chance to play one yet but If I did I would be ok with using the sidekick rules.