Yes, it would half again for resistance if the Barbarian is mid rage, or if they have Resistance for any other reason. Imagine them pulling off a semi-magical superhero landing that leaves a crater in the ground, from which they burst ready to tear some more enemies apart.
Those are the simple rules for falling. I know a lot of people have house rules to make falling more or less complicated or deadly. One could be to make the bludgeoning damage caused from a fall be not resistable. Each to their own.
Interestingly, does that house rule allow rogues to use their Evasion feature to totally dodge the falling damage? :)
That's a fun question, technically as a mechanic (and going by the precedence set from the save/rage combo) it could be used this way. However, the first thought that comes to mind: You can't evade the ground.
Interestingly, does that house rule allow rogues to use their Evasion feature to totally dodge the falling damage? :)
It is something that I read on here and implemented on the fly not having had a chance to fully flesh it out. The party had fun and it was a good scare, but when combined with the barbarian's rage seemed op.
As a general principle, resistance does indeed halve the damage taken, even if that damage is already reduced due to a successful save. For example, a barbarian resistant to fire damage who made their dexterity save vs a fireball would take 1/4 damage (halved from the save, then halved again from the resistance).
The max of 20d6 fall damage (on average 70) means even mid level characters can already fall hundreds or thousands of feet without being killed by it, a raging barbarian takes on average only 35 damage from a fall of any height above 200 ft, and that means they can start surviving those as soon as level 4, depending on their con score. Them being able to reduce it further, or a Rogue being able to avoid damage entirely, is not necessarily problematic, depending on how you want your world to work. You can also do acrobatics checks instead of dex saves for what it's worth, which would preclude evasion working, just saying. Just realize that in addition to allowing parkour style high leaps and running along without significant damage, it also could be used in military conflicts. Fighters and barbarians leaping out of airships or off of flying mounts hundreds or thousands of feet above the ground inside the walls of a keep, smashing into the earth below and then staggering to their feet and beginning to fight. Some of them falling unconscious from the damage, but still only at zero hp due to rules, and then picked back up by the clerics of the group, who are floating down with the Wizards thanks to feather fall being used on them and other key targets. It would be an impressive invasion style, visually evocative, and really, who among us would think it unacceptable in D&D for someone to smash into the ground in a 3 point stance then look up with a glare and rise to their feet ready to engage in combat?
If you want more 'realism' in your fantasy campaign then I guess I could see an issue, but even then keep in mind that you're only delaying things, fall damage being capped means at high enough levels Any class can just shake it off. If you find that unacceptable, blame the HP system, it's a consequence of that system which allows folks to fall miles down to earth and just get up and walk it off without any broken bones or consequences.
Interestingly, does that house rule allow rogues to use their Evasion feature to totally dodge the falling damage? :)
That's a fun question, technically as a mechanic (and going by the precedence set from the save/rage combo) it could be used this way. However, the first thought that comes to mind: You can't evade the ground.
Personally if I were to use the homebrew rule, I wouldn't call it a "Dex Save" to take half damage for this very reason. I'd say "Make a Dexterity Acrobatics check to reduce the damage". Thus the rogue would still take damage on a pass / fail.
That's a fun question, technically as a mechanic (and going by the precedence set from the save/rage combo) it could be used this way. However, the first thought that comes to mind: You can't evade the ground.
You also can't evade while petrified or unconscious, but Evasion still lets you take half damage. Evasion's one of those cases where the RAW doesn't quite match RAI.
Personally if I were to use the homebrew rule, I wouldn't call it a "Dex Save" to take half damage for this very reason. I'd say "Make a Dexterity Acrobatics check to reduce the damage". Thus the rogue would still take damage on a pass / fail.
That's actually a common ruling I make when I play, it makes sense that a person may roll out, take a look at parkour.
You also can't evade while petrified or unconscious, but Evasion still lets you take half damage. Evasion's one of those cases where the RAW doesn't quite match RAI.
Yup, in the end I was simply trying to make light of the concept of evading the ground, the raw/rai arguments are not unfamiliar.
That's a fun question, technically as a mechanic (and going by the precedence set from the save/rage combo) it could be used this way. However, the first thought that comes to mind: You can't evade the ground.
You also can't evade while petrified or unconscious, but Evasion still lets you take half damage. Evasion's one of those cases where the RAW doesn't quite match RAI.
I don't know that RAW is exactly clear here. Both those conditions say "automatically fails Strength and Dexterity saving throws", and Evasion states "subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw". If you are automatically failing the saving throw, then you are in fact not *allowed* to make a Dexterity saving throw at all. If you don't roll the dice then you have not been subjected to an effect that allowed you to roll the saving throw - you were actually subjected to an effect that did damage automatically.
But yeah, it's all a bit of nonsense one you get down to stuff like this. I think I'll agree with Grizzlebub above, and allow anyone proficient in Acrobatics to attempt a skill check to reduce damage. Damage reduction = skill check result minus 10. Rolling a natural 1 instead increases the damage (double?) as you land awkwardly. So anyone with a high enough Acrobatics mod could avoid up to 20 damage pretty reliably. That feels less open to nonsense to me.
But yeah, it's all a bit of nonsense one you get down to stuff like this. I think I'll agree with Grizzlebub above, and allow anyone proficient in Acrobatics to attempt a skill check to reduce damage. Damage reduction = skill check result minus 10. Rolling a natural 1 instead increases the damage (double?) as you land awkwardly. So anyone with a high enough Acrobatics mod could avoid up to 20 damage pretty reliably. That feels less open to nonsense to me.
For what it's worth, that result would mean someone with 16 Dex who is Proficient in Acrobatics, at level 1, would be taking on average 5 less damage, at level 10, 7 less damage, and at level 20, 9 less damage. This is someone who has dedicated not insubstantial resources to this, but not of course someone whose entire character is built around acrobatics, with expertise and reliable talent and other stuff. Compared to the risk of doubling the damage on a 1, personally if I had a character operating under that rule set, I wouldn't bother.
I don't know that RAW is exactly clear here. Both those conditions say "automatically fails Strength and Dexterity saving throws", and Evasion states "subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw".
Evasion doesn't care whether you can make a Dexterity saving throw, it cares about whether the effect allows you to make one. Fireball does in fact allow you to make a saving throw to halve the damage; being doomed to fail the saving throw by a condition doesn't change that fact.
A barbarian, or any character for that matter, can't make a Dexterity saving throw once he/she is falling. A dexterity saving throw attempts to influence and therefore prevent the change in condition. A spell caster can slow the rate of descent or improve the characters success with the use of a web spell, but once the character hits the ground the fall condition applies.
While the barbarian is raging, he/she would half the damage since falling damage is bludgeoning damage. However, if the distance the barbarian fell is greater than his/her movement speed and he/she hasn't attacked on his/her turn, by definition the rage ends, and the class feature is interrupted. Normal 1d6 bludgeoning damage for every 10 feet the character fell applies. So, if the barbarian fell, HE SHOULD ATTACK. The character might suffer a ranged penalty. Doesn't matter. Rage is dependent upon intent, not based upon success, unless the class feature specifies.
Sorry, the rage attack while falling made that line jump out at me.
Dex save doesn't necessarily mean influencing the fall. I take it as it implies mitigating the damage by potentially adjusting how the impact affects ones person. Being in martial arts for the past number of years has taught me that once your feet are off the ground you're pretty much s.o.l. However I've also been taught how to land so that I take far less damage from the impact and avoid breaking a wrist, hip, elbow, or other extremity. Barring direct simulation due to a fantasy setting, I feel giving that kind of out is fair.
A barbarian, or any character for that matter, can't make a Dexterity saving throw once he/she is falling. A dexterity saving throw attempts to influence and therefore prevent the change in condition. A spell caster can slow the rate of descent or improve the characters success with the use of a web spell, but once the character hits the ground the fall condition applies.
While the barbarian is raging, he/she would half the damage since falling damage is bludgeoning damage. However, if the distance the barbarian fell is greater than his/her movement speed and he/she hasn't attacked on his/her turn, by definition the rage ends, and the class feature is interrupted. Normal 1d6 bludgeoning damage for every 10 feet the character fell applies. So, if the barbarian fell, HE SHOULD ATTACK. The character might suffer a ranged penalty. Doesn't matter. Rage is dependent upon intent, not based upon success, unless the class feature specifies.
So, keep on raging on!
Just want to point out that your concept of "greater than his movement speed" is in error. Look at feather fall- "A falling creature's rate of descent slows to 60 feet per round until the spell ends. If the creature lands before the spell ends, it takes no falling damage and can land on its feet" So if a creature only fell 30 feet in a round, it would take zero falling damage regardless. Just so you know, the actual distance fallen in a 6 second span is roughly 500 ft, and after that, it will have reached terminal velocity, and will fall roughly at 1000 ft per round moving forward. It is certainly possible a barbarian would be falling far enough for his rage to end, but if he is, he's falling a *long* way.
Just want to point out that your concept of "greater than his movement speed" is in error. Look at feather fall- "A falling creature's rate of descent slows to 60 feet per round until the spell ends. If the creature lands before the spell ends, it takes no falling damage and can land on its feet" So if a creature only fell 30 feet in a round, it would take zero falling damage regardless. Just so you know, the actual distance fallen in a 6 second span is roughly 500 ft, and after that, it will have reached terminal velocity, and will fall roughly at 1000 ft per round moving forward. It is certainly possible a barbarian would be falling far enough for his rage to end, but if he is, he's falling a *long* way.
Agreed, the general rule of thumb I use is that you fall 500 ft every 6 seconds. So if it is less than 500 feet, it happens within the same round.
Just want to point out that your concept of "greater than his movement speed" is in error. Look at feather fall- "A falling creature's rate of descent slows to 60 feet per round until the spell ends. If the creature lands before the spell ends, it takes no falling damage and can land on its feet" So if a creature only fell 30 feet in a round, it would take zero falling damage regardless. Just so you know, the actual distance fallen in a 6 second span is roughly 500 ft, and after that, it will have reached terminal velocity, and will fall roughly at 1000 ft per round moving forward. It is certainly possible a barbarian would be falling far enough for his rage to end, but if he is, he's falling a *long* way.
Agreed, the general rule of thumb I use is that you fall 500 ft every 6 seconds. So if it is less than 500 feet, it happens within the same round.
If the Barbarian didn't attack anything that round, he loses Rage and takes normal damage.
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Just want to point out that your concept of "greater than his movement speed" is in error. Look at feather fall- "A falling creature's rate of descent slows to 60 feet per round until the spell ends. If the creature lands before the spell ends, it takes no falling damage and can land on its feet" So if a creature only fell 30 feet in a round, it would take zero falling damage regardless. Just so you know, the actual distance fallen in a 6 second span is roughly 500 ft, and after that, it will have reached terminal velocity, and will fall roughly at 1000 ft per round moving forward. It is certainly possible a barbarian would be falling far enough for his rage to end, but if he is, he's falling a *long* way.
Agreed, the general rule of thumb I use is that you fall 500 ft every 6 seconds. So if it is less than 500 feet, it happens within the same round.
If the Barbarian didn't attack anything that round, he loses Rage and takes normal damage.
If the Barbarian didn't attack anything and his fall is less than 500 feet, it happens in a single round so he is still raging because his rage ends at the end of the round.
If a barbarian takes a 100 ft fall, he makes a dex save to halve the damage. If he does this while raging does he half of that halved damage as well?
I feel like those shouldn't stack
Depends on whether the Barb attacked anything that turn. If not, the Rage ends.
Not sure why he would get a Dex save vs the falling damage.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
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"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Yes, it would half again for resistance if the Barbarian is mid rage, or if they have Resistance for any other reason. Imagine them pulling off a semi-magical superhero landing that leaves a crater in the ground, from which they burst ready to tear some more enemies apart.
Those are the simple rules for falling. I know a lot of people have house rules to make falling more or less complicated or deadly. One could be to make the bludgeoning damage caused from a fall be not resistable. Each to their own.
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D&D Beyond FoundersAllowing a dexterity save for half damage is a homebrew rule, and not part of the standard falling damage rules.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/adventuring#Falling
Interestingly, does that house rule allow rogues to use their Evasion feature to totally dodge the falling damage? :)
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As a general principle, resistance does indeed halve the damage taken, even if that damage is already reduced due to a successful save. For example, a barbarian resistant to fire damage who made their dexterity save vs a fireball would take 1/4 damage (halved from the save, then halved again from the resistance).
The max of 20d6 fall damage (on average 70) means even mid level characters can already fall hundreds or thousands of feet without being killed by it, a raging barbarian takes on average only 35 damage from a fall of any height above 200 ft, and that means they can start surviving those as soon as level 4, depending on their con score. Them being able to reduce it further, or a Rogue being able to avoid damage entirely, is not necessarily problematic, depending on how you want your world to work. You can also do acrobatics checks instead of dex saves for what it's worth, which would preclude evasion working, just saying. Just realize that in addition to allowing parkour style high leaps and running along without significant damage, it also could be used in military conflicts. Fighters and barbarians leaping out of airships or off of flying mounts hundreds or thousands of feet above the ground inside the walls of a keep, smashing into the earth below and then staggering to their feet and beginning to fight. Some of them falling unconscious from the damage, but still only at zero hp due to rules, and then picked back up by the clerics of the group, who are floating down with the Wizards thanks to feather fall being used on them and other key targets. It would be an impressive invasion style, visually evocative, and really, who among us would think it unacceptable in D&D for someone to smash into the ground in a 3 point stance then look up with a glare and rise to their feet ready to engage in combat?
If you want more 'realism' in your fantasy campaign then I guess I could see an issue, but even then keep in mind that you're only delaying things, fall damage being capped means at high enough levels Any class can just shake it off. If you find that unacceptable, blame the HP system, it's a consequence of that system which allows folks to fall miles down to earth and just get up and walk it off without any broken bones or consequences.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Evasion doesn't care whether you can make a Dexterity saving throw, it cares about whether the effect allows you to make one. Fireball does in fact allow you to make a saving throw to halve the damage; being doomed to fail the saving throw by a condition doesn't change that fact.
"The Evasion feature refers to you dodging, but it doesn't explicitly require you to be mobile. RAI: being paralyzed negates the feature. RAW: being paralyzed has no effect on the feature. Either way, being paralyzed causes you to automatically fail a Dexterity saving throw."
Back on topic, I wouldn't allow a skill check to reduce falling damage. Steps too much on the Monk's Slow Fall.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
A barbarian, or any character for that matter, can't make a Dexterity saving throw once he/she is falling. A dexterity saving throw attempts to influence and therefore prevent the change in condition. A spell caster can slow the rate of descent or improve the characters success with the use of a web spell, but once the character hits the ground the fall condition applies.
While the barbarian is raging, he/she would half the damage since falling damage is bludgeoning damage. However, if the distance the barbarian fell is greater than his/her movement speed and he/she hasn't attacked on his/her turn, by definition the rage ends, and the class feature is interrupted. Normal 1d6 bludgeoning damage for every 10 feet the character fell applies. So, if the barbarian fell, HE SHOULD ATTACK. The character might suffer a ranged penalty. Doesn't matter. Rage is dependent upon intent, not based upon success, unless the class feature specifies.
So, keep on raging on!
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Sorry, the rage attack while falling made that line jump out at me.
Dex save doesn't necessarily mean influencing the fall. I take it as it implies mitigating the damage by potentially adjusting how the impact affects ones person. Being in martial arts for the past number of years has taught me that once your feet are off the ground you're pretty much s.o.l. However I've also been taught how to land so that I take far less damage from the impact and avoid breaking a wrist, hip, elbow, or other extremity. Barring direct simulation due to a fantasy setting, I feel giving that kind of out is fair.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Of course, which is why I said, a spell caster can slow the rate.