Hey guys. I need a second opinion on a puzzle I've designed, as my players encountered it in the last session, and spent all of two minutes on it before giving up. That's not a problem - the dungeon has four paths that can be tackled in any order, but they'll have to come back to it at some point, so I've got to make sure that the puzzle is reasonable/solvable. It was more of a 'we'll try again later' giving up than a 'we can't solve this' giving up.
(I don't think any of my players browse these forums, but if you guys are reading this - bugger off! >.>)
The players approach from the south side of the room and pick a direction. The first set of doors on either side opens normally, and leads them into the main room. The split going down the middle is a sheet of completely transparent ice, allowing them to see through into the other room, but no sound can get through. To the north, each room has another door that can't be opened, which leads to the boss of this section of the dungeon. On the little C-shaped sections, there are two plaques, facing so that they can't be read from the other room. Each reads;
Left: “A good evening starts with a hearty welcome.“
Right: “Reach into your soul and know yourself.”
This is everything they get, and they need to work out how to open the two doors by solving the puzzle of the room. It's not supposed to be easy - the puzzle plus the boss fight (which will hopefully be hard, though I've not had much luck in creating challenging combat so far...) should ideally take the majority of a session.
Here's the solution;
To open the doors on the far side, the characters need to enter the room in the same order that the players arrived at my flat that evening. It doesn't matter which person enters through which door, so long as they all pass through one of the doors in the same order that they arrived.
The right hand clue is supposed to indicate that the answer is something to do with them as players (the 'souls' of the characters), and the left hand clue is supposed to make them think of arrivals and how they got to my flat that evening.
The room being split in two is a red herring, which they can discover by talking to an NPC in another part of the dungeon. Originally, I'd planned on doing a different puzzle that involved team work, in which the party would be split into the two rooms and have to solve a puzzle without one group being able to speak to the other, but I couldn't work out a good enough puzzle for it so I abandoned the idea. By that point, I'd already drawn the map though.
I'm thinking that maybe I should make it a bit more obvious, maybe by having lights that turn green or red to show them how many people have entered in the correct/incorrect order, but I'll see what you guys think first.
There is also one alternative solution - one of the characters is a Sorcerer and a massive pyromaniac, and he can just burn through the ice wall leading to the boss room. If they do this, I'll just ramp up the difficulty of the boss battle by having Water Elementals form from the melted ice.
This ideal is interesting but mayhaps confusing trying to tie the characters "soul" to your actual players with that little bit about “Reach into your soul and know yourself.” but they should be able to figure it out with a hint like that green/red light you mentioned, i know my players would have hell with a puzzle like this but would eventually make it through with maybe a little hint... or like you suggested melt the ice and move on.
But might i also suggest if you do add a hint to it, maybe something more subtle like the ice sheet melting a little as they enter the room in the right order and refreezing should they mess up the order.
The hints on the plaques I feel are a little too vague, they can mean practically anything. Give them a slightly more direct hint so that it can only REASONABLY mean one thing while still being subtle enough that it takes a while to put together.
The hints are WAY too vague, as has been pointed out.
The puzzle requires them to metagame which most players try and avoid. When I play I would never, ever, think of solving any D&D puzzle using non-D&D world things. The characters don't know they're characters, they do not know they're in a game or that they are creations of us players. So unless you're playing a silly Deadpool style game where everyone knows nothing is real, then sure. Otherwise, tailor the puzzle for the D&D world and the characters not for the real world. Don't forget that it should be the characters solving it: they players can try to think themselves but it is perfectly Rules-As-Written for them to instead just roll an Intelligence check.
The reference of soul as "the player" is even more confusing because the D&D game already has different ideas on a soul: for example a character soul can be captured with a spell like Soul Cage, affected by the Void card from Deck of Many Things and on character death their soul is sent to a different plane: obviously, these things don't affect the player so it is ridiculous for anyone to think a reference to "soul" would mean a player.
Try to include in-game-world solutons, offer more clues with certain skill checks (a perception check to notice faint patterns in the ice or walls, investigation to find hidden hints in walls, floor etc). If the players struggle, have them roll a straight Int check to see and on a good roll given them a prompt towards where they can check for more hints. If they have exhausted all hints: a group Int check to see if they can solve it or not: if they don't meet the DC they do not proceed further or, that they do eventually solve it but there's a penalty of some kind for not solving it "properly" or "in time" (the boss fight is harder, having had more time to prepare for them, or something). If they solve it, they don't face the penalty. Just some ideas.
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Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I don't think I'd be able to solve that without some serious hints (I'm pretty good at riddles) because I would only be thinking of answers within the game.
If it helps, we're not a particularly serious game - they're all relatively new players that don't know much about D&D lore or anything, and we're just dicking about at the moment. Previous puzzles have involved references to Dragonball Z and the Titanic. Planning to get a bit more serious when our new campaign starts. But I think I will add in the extra indicators, based on what you've all said. I'm pretty sure they'll just take the fire option no matter what I put in, TBF.
Reaching into your soul and involving remembering something the players did IRL is a very, VERY slippery slope, and I personally doubt I would think of that pretty much ever.
I had assumed this was involving setting a fire or something to connect the two rooms
Also worth mentioning: You can throw a puzzle at the players without knowing 'the' answer. Once the players submit something plausible, you just figure out how that could work, and then describe that to your players. Puzzles with very specific requirements for what players have to do can end badly very quickly.
Like other's have said, injecting metaknowledge into a puzzle is a very, dangerous slope. I don't think I, as a player, would have every gotten that because I've trained myself after playing D&D for decades to ignore all IRL knowledge. This goes against everything most players have practiced against. Personally, if I read these puzzles my interpretation would be as follows:
Characters must enter the Western room during evening and wave at (or "greet") their reflections showing back on themselves within the ice. I'd then have the reflections wave back, and move across the wall (separate from their actions) and go and unlock the northern door, welcoming them within.
Characters that enter from the Eastern room is trickery to reconfigure, but I'd probably just go with the most cleaver solution a player proposes.
Like other's have said, injecting metaknowledge into a puzzle is a very, dangerous slope. I don't think I, as a player, would have every gotten that because I've trained myself after playing D&D for decades to ignore all IRL knowledge. This goes against everything most players have practiced against. Personally, if I read these puzzles my interpretation would be as follows:
Characters must enter the Western room during evening and wave at (or "greet") their reflections showing back on themselves within the ice. I'd then have the reflections wave back, and move across the wall (separate from their actions) and go and unlock the northern door, welcoming them within.
Characters that enter from the Eastern room is trickery to reconfigure, but I'd probably just go with the most cleaver solution a player proposes.
The other room could be something like the Mirror of Erised from Harry Potter. Reach into yourself could be reach out to your reflection and by doing so either the key is magicked into your hand or it breaks the arcane lock on the door that is preventing you from just busting it down.
Hey guys. I need a second opinion on a puzzle I've designed, as my players encountered it in the last session, and spent all of two minutes on it before giving up. That's not a problem - the dungeon has four paths that can be tackled in any order, but they'll have to come back to it at some point, so I've got to make sure that the puzzle is reasonable/solvable. It was more of a 'we'll try again later' giving up than a 'we can't solve this' giving up.
(I don't think any of my players browse these forums, but if you guys are reading this - bugger off! >.>)
Check out this image to see the layout; https://imgur.com/a/GrLA4Oa
The players approach from the south side of the room and pick a direction. The first set of doors on either side opens normally, and leads them into the main room. The split going down the middle is a sheet of completely transparent ice, allowing them to see through into the other room, but no sound can get through. To the north, each room has another door that can't be opened, which leads to the boss of this section of the dungeon. On the little C-shaped sections, there are two plaques, facing so that they can't be read from the other room. Each reads;
Left: “A good evening starts with a hearty welcome.“
Right: “Reach into your soul and know yourself.”
This is everything they get, and they need to work out how to open the two doors by solving the puzzle of the room. It's not supposed to be easy - the puzzle plus the boss fight (which will hopefully be hard, though I've not had much luck in creating challenging combat so far...) should ideally take the majority of a session.
Here's the solution;
To open the doors on the far side, the characters need to enter the room in the same order that the players arrived at my flat that evening. It doesn't matter which person enters through which door, so long as they all pass through one of the doors in the same order that they arrived.
The right hand clue is supposed to indicate that the answer is something to do with them as players (the 'souls' of the characters), and the left hand clue is supposed to make them think of arrivals and how they got to my flat that evening.
The room being split in two is a red herring, which they can discover by talking to an NPC in another part of the dungeon. Originally, I'd planned on doing a different puzzle that involved team work, in which the party would be split into the two rooms and have to solve a puzzle without one group being able to speak to the other, but I couldn't work out a good enough puzzle for it so I abandoned the idea. By that point, I'd already drawn the map though.
I'm thinking that maybe I should make it a bit more obvious, maybe by having lights that turn green or red to show them how many people have entered in the correct/incorrect order, but I'll see what you guys think first.
There is also one alternative solution - one of the characters is a Sorcerer and a massive pyromaniac, and he can just burn through the ice wall leading to the boss room. If they do this, I'll just ramp up the difficulty of the boss battle by having Water Elementals form from the melted ice.
| D100 Non-combat Random Encounter Table | Enchantments Galore |
| Pulsing Brazier Magic Trap | Gnome Capsule Machine | Language - A Primer |
This ideal is interesting but mayhaps confusing trying to tie the characters "soul" to your actual players with that little bit about “Reach into your soul and know yourself.” but they should be able to figure it out with a hint like that green/red light you mentioned, i know my players would have hell with a puzzle like this but would eventually make it through with maybe a little hint... or like you suggested melt the ice and move on.
But might i also suggest if you do add a hint to it, maybe something more subtle like the ice sheet melting a little as they enter the room in the right order and refreezing should they mess up the order.
The hints on the plaques I feel are a little too vague, they can mean practically anything. Give them a slightly more direct hint so that it can only REASONABLY mean one thing while still being subtle enough that it takes a while to put together.
The hints are WAY too vague, as has been pointed out.
The puzzle requires them to metagame which most players try and avoid. When I play I would never, ever, think of solving any D&D puzzle using non-D&D world things. The characters don't know they're characters, they do not know they're in a game or that they are creations of us players. So unless you're playing a silly Deadpool style game where everyone knows nothing is real, then sure. Otherwise, tailor the puzzle for the D&D world and the characters not for the real world. Don't forget that it should be the characters solving it: they players can try to think themselves but it is perfectly Rules-As-Written for them to instead just roll an Intelligence check.
The reference of soul as "the player" is even more confusing because the D&D game already has different ideas on a soul: for example a character soul can be captured with a spell like Soul Cage, affected by the Void card from Deck of Many Things and on character death their soul is sent to a different plane: obviously, these things don't affect the player so it is ridiculous for anyone to think a reference to "soul" would mean a player.
Try to include in-game-world solutons, offer more clues with certain skill checks (a perception check to notice faint patterns in the ice or walls, investigation to find hidden hints in walls, floor etc). If the players struggle, have them roll a straight Int check to see and on a good roll given them a prompt towards where they can check for more hints. If they have exhausted all hints: a group Int check to see if they can solve it or not: if they don't meet the DC they do not proceed further or, that they do eventually solve it but there's a penalty of some kind for not solving it "properly" or "in time" (the boss fight is harder, having had more time to prepare for them, or something). If they solve it, they don't face the penalty. Just some ideas.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I don't think I'd be able to solve that without some serious hints (I'm pretty good at riddles) because I would only be thinking of answers within the game.
If it helps, we're not a particularly serious game - they're all relatively new players that don't know much about D&D lore or anything, and we're just dicking about at the moment. Previous puzzles have involved references to Dragonball Z and the Titanic. Planning to get a bit more serious when our new campaign starts. But I think I will add in the extra indicators, based on what you've all said. I'm pretty sure they'll just take the fire option no matter what I put in, TBF.
| D100 Non-combat Random Encounter Table | Enchantments Galore |
| Pulsing Brazier Magic Trap | Gnome Capsule Machine | Language - A Primer |
Reaching into your soul and involving remembering something the players did IRL is a very, VERY slippery slope, and I personally doubt I would think of that pretty much ever.
I had assumed this was involving setting a fire or something to connect the two rooms
Also worth mentioning: You can throw a puzzle at the players without knowing 'the' answer. Once the players submit something plausible, you just figure out how that could work, and then describe that to your players. Puzzles with very specific requirements for what players have to do can end badly very quickly.
Like other's have said, injecting metaknowledge into a puzzle is a very, dangerous slope. I don't think I, as a player, would have every gotten that because I've trained myself after playing D&D for decades to ignore all IRL knowledge. This goes against everything most players have practiced against. Personally, if I read these puzzles my interpretation would be as follows:
Characters must enter the Western room during evening and wave at (or "greet") their reflections showing back on themselves within the ice. I'd then have the reflections wave back, and move across the wall (separate from their actions) and go and unlock the northern door, welcoming them within.
Characters that enter from the Eastern room is trickery to reconfigure, but I'd probably just go with the most cleaver solution a player proposes.
The other room could be something like the Mirror of Erised from Harry Potter. Reach into yourself could be reach out to your reflection and by doing so either the key is magicked into your hand or it breaks the arcane lock on the door that is preventing you from just busting it down.
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