I'm getting ready to DM my first game and I sent my players off to create their own characters and characters sheets. I put them on the honor system, because previous DM's had done so for me and I felt it wouldn't be a problem. However, now the character sheets are coming in and while I am pretty sure the players are being mostly honest I have my doubts about one characters ability scores. I let everyone use the roll method, but one character has consistently gotten scores above 12 on all their stats. At first it seemed fine, but a question of capping ability scores came up since the character is a Halfling and they saw on a Critical Role forum that halfling Dex. caps at 15. At first I saw the same post and assumed it was correct (pretty sure it wasn't it looks like everything caps at 20) and suggested the player use the standard score method to balance everything out, not sure but I think the player got very mad that I suggested it because others had rolled high on their scores as well and I hadn't asked them to do this, and refused to re-roll anything but the one score. I already had to stop this player from trying to purchase and use spells above level because it fit into their character background, and it just makes me more suspicious of their character creation process. I'm almost tempted to ask everything to just use Standard Score instead of rolling now because I don't feel comfortable anymore letting them roll because of this one players reaction.
What do you think? Am I overthinking this and being unnecessarily judgemental (I feel I am a bit), or should I address this issue with the players?
It is a good idea to prevent cheating in your campaigns as much as possible. I would recommend having your players make their characters at the gaming table (or wherever you happen to be playing) right before the game and watch as the players create their characters. Though the downside of this option is that character creation would cut into your gaming session.
Devious serpent folk devoid of compassion, yuan-ti manipulate other creatures by arousing their doubts, evoking their fears, and elevating and crushing their hopes. From remote temples in jungles, swamps, and deserts, the yuan-ti plot to supplant and dominate all other races and to make themselves gods.
It is a good idea to prevent cheating in your campaigns as much as possible. I would recommend having them make their characters at the gaming table (or wherever you happen to be playing) right before the game and watch as the players create their characters. Though the downside of this option is that character creation would cut into your gaming session.
It is a good idea to prevent cheating in your campaigns as much as possible. I would recommend having them make their characters at the gaming table (or wherever you happen to be playing) right before the game and watch as the players create their characters. Though the downside of this option is that character creation would cut into your gaming session.
Unfortunately we have a very limited time frame to run this in, which is why I put them on the honor system for character creation. Two of them who had rolled well, actually came and talked to me about it right away so I don't feel they were cheating. It's honestly just the one player who seems to be a bit off with their stats. I don't want to make everyone change their stats but I'm starting to feel like I have to in this situation. If we do character creation at the table, it could also take longer than a few hours as this player is also very much into creating very detail background which is great, but when making this character it took them several days and ten plus pages of character background.
It is a good idea to prevent cheating in your campaigns as much as possible. I would recommend having them make their characters at the gaming table (or wherever you happen to be playing) right before the game and watch as the players create their characters. Though the downside of this option is that character creation would cut into your gaming session.
Unfortunately we have a very limited time frame to run this in, which is why I put them on the honor system for character creation. Two of them who had rolled well, actually came and talked to me about it right away so I don't feel they were cheating. It's honestly just the one player who seems to be a bit off with their stats. I don't want to make everyone change their stats but I'm starting to feel like I have to in this situation. If we do character creation at the table, it could also take longer than a few hours as this player is also very much into creating very detail background which is great, but when making this character it took them several days and ten plus pages of character background.
I have similar problems with players purchasing their starting equipment. For example, one of my players was able to buy plate armor.
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Devious serpent folk devoid of compassion, yuan-ti manipulate other creatures by arousing their doubts, evoking their fears, and elevating and crushing their hopes. From remote temples in jungles, swamps, and deserts, the yuan-ti plot to supplant and dominate all other races and to make themselves gods.
Honestly, the stats don't matter nearly as much as they used to (especially since they cap at 20). As for the spell stuff, I mean that's pretty standardized, so that's more of them not following the rules than anything else. I tend to work with my PCs on their backgrounds, but that's only for things like mixing together a charlatan and a criminal to get a con-artist. Or mixing a soldier and an outlander to get a tribal champion. It's never stuff like, here have stuff that you couldn't otherwise get, like higher level spells.
As for players purchasing plate armor with their starting equipment, that's not even in the realm of possibility with starting money. A max roll paladin/fighter/cleric/ranger/bard can only get 200 gold (225 if they have the noble background) and plate armor costs 1500 gold. So, you'd have to have 7 players, all of those classes, all roll nearly max gold, and all be fine with not having weapons/armor/etc... so that one person can have an 18 AC (20 if they still had 10g left to buy a shield)
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
The background issue was mostly them having an unofficial Elf/Halfling character. They wanted to mix racial abilities etc. when it came down to putting in the stats but I told them they would have to pick either Halfling stats or Elf stats. Then came the second level spells at level one, which I said wasn't allowed because the character would not be able to cast them until level two. It's just been kind of tough with this player as I want to let them play the character they want to, but I'm also afraid of them making their own rules up as they go.
As for how to stop cheating during stat rolling, I came up with this method:
Have them roll using whatever method you normally use, but have them keep track of the individual numbers on the d6s they actually rolled.
You then roll what each number's value is. For example, you start at 1 and you roll a d6 and say you get 4. Now any 1s that they rolled are actually 4s. You roll for 2 and get 1, now any 2s that they rolled are actually 1s. Re-roll anything that's already been used and don't worry if you roll the same number for the value, because they won't know what each one is worth until you tell them after.
Replace what they rolled with the new scores.
Obviously make sure they know that's the method you are going to be using. And if you do anything like "re-roll any 1s" you could just start at 2 and work your way up from there (ignoring any 1s when you are changing the values of the numbers).
This makes it so that they will tell you the actual scores that they rolled, instead of being tempted to fake it. After all, there's no way of them knowing which die to lie about since for all they know a 1 could be a 6 and a 6 could be a 2.
For example, we use a 2d6+6 stat rolling method, so player A tells me they rolled a 1&2, 3&2, 4&3, 5&5, 1&6, 5&1 for their stats.
I figured out that 1 = 3, 2 = 5, 3 = 2, 4 = 4, 5 = 6, 6 = 1. So, their stats are as follows 15 (3+6), 13 (2+5), 12 (4+2), 18 (6+6), 10 (3+1), 15 (6+3)
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
The background issue was mostly them having an unofficial Elf/Halfling character. They wanted to mix racial abilities etc. when it came down to putting in the stats but I told them they would have to pick either Halfling stats or Elf stats. Then came the second level spells at level one, which I said wasn't allowed because the character would not be able to cast them until level two. It's just been kind of tough with this player as I want to let them play the character they want to, but I'm also afraid of them making their own rules up as they go.
Oh that's an easier fix. Both have +2 to Dex, so keep that. Then you have to decide which +1 to keep. Since human/elf half-elves are +Charisma and Drow and Lightfoot are both +Charisma, that seems like the natural second stat. But, if you WANT to give them the choice, that's okay too. But, +2 Dex is so strong, that you might want to let them have a dump stat like Charisma be the secondary bonus (unless they are going bard, then that's likely what they'd choose anyway).
Next, give them Darkvision and Fey Ancestry from the elf side (half elves have that despite humans not having any kind of ability to see in the dark or any natural resistances) and then give them one main thing from the main halfling traits - I'd say Lucky or Brave; probably Lucky bc that's the better one (and they already have advantage on some saving throws due to Fey Ancestry).
I'd say they are medium size, but still only have a speed of 25 feet (similar in size to dwarves).
Boom, there's your Elfling, combining the main racial traits and not worrying about the subraces (like how the half-elf race does with elves and humans).
As for spells, idk why they are trying to get spells that they aren't high enough level for. That part still isn't clear what their mindset is. There's no other race/class that gets 2nd level spells at level 1. Hell, the first time you can get access to 2nd level spells as a spellcaster is level 3. Drow get faerie fire and Tieflings get Hellish Rebuke at level 3 and both of those are only 1st level spells. So, there's proof that racial spells are a tier behind actual spellcasters.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
If you can't do a session 0, use the 27 point buy method from the PHB. No player cheating there since it is pretty easy to tell in the stats add up or not. As far as anything else just clearly states what is allowed and stick to it.
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As for me, I choose to believe that an extinct thunder lizard is running a game of Dungeons & Dragons via Twitter!
As for how to stop cheating during stat rolling, I came up with this method:
Have them roll using whatever method you normally use, but have them keep track of the individual numbers on the d6s they actually rolled.
You then roll what each number's value is. For example, you start at 1 and you roll a d6 and say you get 4. Now any 1s that they rolled are actually 4s. You roll for 2 and get 1, now any 2s that they rolled are actually 1s. Re-roll anything that's already been used and don't worry if you roll the same number for the value, because they won't know what each one is worth until you tell them after.
Replace what they rolled with the new scores.
I'm using this one next time, I think it will work perfectly. As far as the Elfling stats, since I'm so rusty at running D&D (1996 was the last D&D game I ran 2001 was the last WoD game) I wanted to run the game pretty straight with little tinkering on my end, but this has given me some insight into how I can go about it next time. I really appreciate all the advice it's really been helpful and I've talked a bit with the player so it seems like we have that issue settled.
If you can't do a session 0, use the 27 point buy method from the PHB. No player cheating there since it is pretty easy to tell in the stats add up or not. As far as anything else just clearly states what is allowed and stick to it.
I'm going to go with this from now on. I thought dice rolling would be the most straight forward way of doing things but I think I was sadly mistaken. Ah well.
you can create characters pretty full and just roll the stats at the session at the time openly for everyone. It will change some things they might want to build out, but not alot, at most it's going to be having one or two more/less spells available or something, nothing that wouldn't take more than 15-30 minutes to handle for everyone.
Thank you all for the advice, The re-roll option is a good possibility right now it's been very confusing but I have finally gotten my player on board and I think everything is turning out well!
Or you as the DM can roll one set of stats for everyone to use at the table. I do this a lot if its not going to be point buy, but I really like the swap method sloporion said, ima probably use that!
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For my attack I will throw my spear...two handed...for 1d8...
It sounds like you've found a solution for future games (point buy) but, after reading this, the take away I'm left with is:
- Asking someone to change their stat array after you've told them they're on the honor system is essentially accusing them of cheating. You might not see it that way, but put yourself in that player's shoes, and you'll see why your player got offended.
- If your player is trying to make a weird, non-conformist something or other and has a vision for how it's going to play out, then you need to discuss it with them in detail before you can, as the DM, say one way or another if it'll fit with the game you're going to run.
- Spending hours on character creation and writing 10+ pages of backstory before session 1 seems crazy to me. Using the work they've done as emotional leverage (unnecessary work, I might add, unless they only did it for their own enjoyment and even then it's not on you to validate their choices) so they can play whatever they want is honestly just manipulative. Stand up for yourself on this one. Do it for yourself and for the other people at the table who were willing to follow your direction. Don't cave to unreasonable demands just because they're loud.
Points buy works really well for D&D 5th edition - the game is balanced around characters with that level of stats, so no worry that they'll have trouble without having super high stats.
I find it strange that almost everyone else gave an option that added complexity to the die rolling method of ability score generation in lieu of using the point buy and I wonder why that is? When you add complexity it should add a definable value to the game and I just couldn't see how any of these various methods of die rolling did that, but that is just me. But I am really curious as to why so many DMs so heavily favor the die rolling method, especially in online games when it can cause issues of cheating. In table top forums that issue can be addressed by having all the players roll right there in front of the DM and everyone but that does result in needing a session 0. And while I am not opposed to session 0 in principle if I can start a game at session 1 and just get right into playing well that is a big benefit to me. So on that note I am really just looking for some solid reasons why 6 random die rolls is a better option than the point buy system.
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As for me, I choose to believe that an extinct thunder lizard is running a game of Dungeons & Dragons via Twitter!
I find it strange that almost everyone else gave an option that added complexity to the die rolling method of ability score generation in lieu of using the point buy and I wonder why that is? When you add complexity it should add a definable value to the game and I just couldn't see how any of these various methods of die rolling did that, but that is just me. But I am really curious as to why so many DMs so heavily favor the die rolling method, especially in online games when it can cause issues of cheating. In table top forums that issue can be addressed by having all the players roll right there in front of the DM and everyone but that does result in needing a session 0. And while I am not opposed to session 0 in principle if I can start a game at session 1 and just get right into playing well that is a big benefit to me. So on that note I am really just looking for some solid reasons why 6 random die rolls is a better option than the point buy system.
It's simple, really. To a lot of people, D&D means rolling dice.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
I find it strange that almost everyone else gave an option that added complexity to the die rolling method of ability score generation in lieu of using the point buy and I wonder why that is? When you add complexity it should add a definable value to the game and I just couldn't see how any of these various methods of die rolling did that, but that is just me. But I am really curious as to why so many DMs so heavily favor the die rolling method, especially in online games when it can cause issues of cheating. In table top forums that issue can be addressed by having all the players roll right there in front of the DM and everyone but that does result in needing a session 0. And while I am not opposed to session 0 in principle if I can start a game at session 1 and just get right into playing well that is a big benefit to me. So on that note I am really just looking for some solid reasons why 6 random die rolls is a better option than the point buy system.
It's simple, really. To a lot of people, D&D means rolling dice.
I get that, but for years D&D was all about a group sitting around a table and characters crawling through megadungeons with no rhyme or reason to how monsters were placed. But we have evolved from those days. Perhaps, we need to start understanding the rolling dice should be the action of last resort in a RPG.
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As for me, I choose to believe that an extinct thunder lizard is running a game of Dungeons & Dragons via Twitter!
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Hi all,
I'm getting ready to DM my first game and I sent my players off to create their own characters and characters sheets. I put them on the honor system, because previous DM's had done so for me and I felt it wouldn't be a problem. However, now the character sheets are coming in and while I am pretty sure the players are being mostly honest I have my doubts about one characters ability scores. I let everyone use the roll method, but one character has consistently gotten scores above 12 on all their stats. At first it seemed fine, but a question of capping ability scores came up since the character is a Halfling and they saw on a Critical Role forum that halfling Dex. caps at 15. At first I saw the same post and assumed it was correct (pretty sure it wasn't it looks like everything caps at 20) and suggested the player use the standard score method to balance everything out, not sure but I think the player got very mad that I suggested it because others had rolled high on their scores as well and I hadn't asked them to do this, and refused to re-roll anything but the one score. I already had to stop this player from trying to purchase and use spells above level because it fit into their character background, and it just makes me more suspicious of their character creation process. I'm almost tempted to ask everything to just use Standard Score instead of rolling now because I don't feel comfortable anymore letting them roll because of this one players reaction.
What do you think? Am I overthinking this and being unnecessarily judgemental (I feel I am a bit), or should I address this issue with the players?
It is a good idea to prevent cheating in your campaigns as much as possible. I would recommend having your players make their characters at the gaming table (or wherever you happen to be playing) right before the game and watch as the players create their characters. Though the downside of this option is that character creation would cut into your gaming session.
Devious serpent folk devoid of compassion, yuan-ti manipulate other creatures by arousing their doubts, evoking their fears, and elevating and crushing their hopes. From remote temples in jungles, swamps, and deserts, the yuan-ti plot to supplant and dominate all other races and to make themselves gods.
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InsidersA dwarf with a canoe on his back? What could go wrong?
If we do character creation at the table, it could also take longer than a few hours as this player is also very much into creating very detail background which is great, but when making this character it took them several days and ten plus pages of character background.
Devious serpent folk devoid of compassion, yuan-ti manipulate other creatures by arousing their doubts, evoking their fears, and elevating and crushing their hopes. From remote temples in jungles, swamps, and deserts, the yuan-ti plot to supplant and dominate all other races and to make themselves gods.
Honestly, the stats don't matter nearly as much as they used to (especially since they cap at 20). As for the spell stuff, I mean that's pretty standardized, so that's more of them not following the rules than anything else. I tend to work with my PCs on their backgrounds, but that's only for things like mixing together a charlatan and a criminal to get a con-artist. Or mixing a soldier and an outlander to get a tribal champion. It's never stuff like, here have stuff that you couldn't otherwise get, like higher level spells.
As for players purchasing plate armor with their starting equipment, that's not even in the realm of possibility with starting money. A max roll paladin/fighter/cleric/ranger/bard can only get 200 gold (225 if they have the noble background) and plate armor costs 1500 gold. So, you'd have to have 7 players, all of those classes, all roll nearly max gold, and all be fine with not having weapons/armor/etc... so that one person can have an 18 AC (20 if they still had 10g left to buy a shield)
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
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“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
The background issue was mostly them having an unofficial Elf/Halfling character. They wanted to mix racial abilities etc. when it came down to putting in the stats but I told them they would have to pick either Halfling stats or Elf stats. Then came the second level spells at level one, which I said wasn't allowed because the character would not be able to cast them until level two. It's just been kind of tough with this player as I want to let them play the character they want to, but I'm also afraid of them making their own rules up as they go.
As for how to stop cheating during stat rolling, I came up with this method:
Obviously make sure they know that's the method you are going to be using. And if you do anything like "re-roll any 1s" you could just start at 2 and work your way up from there (ignoring any 1s when you are changing the values of the numbers).
This makes it so that they will tell you the actual scores that they rolled, instead of being tempted to fake it. After all, there's no way of them knowing which die to lie about since for all they know a 1 could be a 6 and a 6 could be a 2.
For example, we use a 2d6+6 stat rolling method, so player A tells me they rolled a 1&2, 3&2, 4&3, 5&5, 1&6, 5&1 for their stats.
I figured out that 1 = 3, 2 = 5, 3 = 2, 4 = 4, 5 = 6, 6 = 1. So, their stats are as follows 15 (3+6), 13 (2+5), 12 (4+2), 18 (6+6), 10 (3+1), 15 (6+3)
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Next, give them Darkvision and Fey Ancestry from the elf side (half elves have that despite humans not having any kind of ability to see in the dark or any natural resistances) and then give them one main thing from the main halfling traits - I'd say Lucky or Brave; probably Lucky bc that's the better one (and they already have advantage on some saving throws due to Fey Ancestry).
Boom, there's your Elfling, combining the main racial traits and not worrying about the subraces (like how the half-elf race does with elves and humans).
As for spells, idk why they are trying to get spells that they aren't high enough level for. That part still isn't clear what their mindset is. There's no other race/class that gets 2nd level spells at level 1. Hell, the first time you can get access to 2nd level spells as a spellcaster is level 3. Drow get faerie fire and Tieflings get Hellish Rebuke at level 3 and both of those are only 1st level spells. So, there's proof that racial spells are a tier behind actual spellcasters.
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
If you can't do a session 0, use the 27 point buy method from the PHB. No player cheating there since it is pretty easy to tell in the stats add up or not. As far as anything else just clearly states what is allowed and stick to it.
As for me, I choose to believe that an extinct thunder lizard is running a game of Dungeons & Dragons via Twitter!
you can create characters pretty full and just roll the stats at the session at the time openly for everyone. It will change some things they might want to build out, but not alot, at most it's going to be having one or two more/less spells available or something, nothing that wouldn't take more than 15-30 minutes to handle for everyone.
How do you get a one-armed goblin out of a tree?
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Thank you all for the advice, The re-roll option is a good possibility right now it's been very confusing but I have finally gotten my player on board and I think everything is turning out well!
Or you as the DM can roll one set of stats for everyone to use at the table. I do this a lot if its not going to be point buy, but I really like the swap method sloporion said, ima probably use that!
For my attack I will throw my spear...two handed...for 1d8...
It sounds like you've found a solution for future games (point buy) but, after reading this, the take away I'm left with is:
- Asking someone to change their stat array after you've told them they're on the honor system is essentially accusing them of cheating. You might not see it that way, but put yourself in that player's shoes, and you'll see why your player got offended.
- If your player is trying to make a weird, non-conformist something or other and has a vision for how it's going to play out, then you need to discuss it with them in detail before you can, as the DM, say one way or another if it'll fit with the game you're going to run.
- Spending hours on character creation and writing 10+ pages of backstory before session 1 seems crazy to me. Using the work they've done as emotional leverage (unnecessary work, I might add, unless they only did it for their own enjoyment and even then it's not on you to validate their choices) so they can play whatever they want is honestly just manipulative. Stand up for yourself on this one. Do it for yourself and for the other people at the table who were willing to follow your direction. Don't cave to unreasonable demands just because they're loud.
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D&D Beyond FoundersPoints buy works really well for D&D 5th edition - the game is balanced around characters with that level of stats, so no worry that they'll have trouble without having super high stats.
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I find it strange that almost everyone else gave an option that added complexity to the die rolling method of ability score generation in lieu of using the point buy and I wonder why that is? When you add complexity it should add a definable value to the game and I just couldn't see how any of these various methods of die rolling did that, but that is just me. But I am really curious as to why so many DMs so heavily favor the die rolling method, especially in online games when it can cause issues of cheating. In table top forums that issue can be addressed by having all the players roll right there in front of the DM and everyone but that does result in needing a session 0. And while I am not opposed to session 0 in principle if I can start a game at session 1 and just get right into playing well that is a big benefit to me. So on that note I am really just looking for some solid reasons why 6 random die rolls is a better option than the point buy system.
As for me, I choose to believe that an extinct thunder lizard is running a game of Dungeons & Dragons via Twitter!
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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As for me, I choose to believe that an extinct thunder lizard is running a game of Dungeons & Dragons via Twitter!