So I'm running an evil campaign and all of the characters are followers of a god. One character is a Warlock so I was trying to come up with a patron for him. He was surprised that the God wasn't going to be his patron. I always thought that gods could only grant divine magic, not arcane so we came up with a Patron with a backstory linking it to the god but I'm starting to wonder if it was necessary. Can a Warlock have a God who grants magic that way? Does that make sense? I'll probably stick with what we have now but for the future I kind of want to get some opinions.
You could certainly create a patron that is a deity. Just model the patron after one of the existing ones in the books or Unearthed Arcana, give him pact spells off the cleric spell list from the domain that fits the deity. Alternatively, the patron could be another servant of the deity, such as a powerful angel/solar or something homegrown of your own. One of the benefits of it NOT being the deity is that it might create some valuable role-play tension if the patron doesn't always see eye to eye with the deity.
There's no reason at all it can't be a god granting the warlock power in a bargain. The patron's role is really to set the them (and potential obligations). All the suggested patrons are suggestions, not rules or scales of power to do this. Sometimes a god wants a cleric. Sometimes they want a warlock. Could be that simple. So long as it creates fun and interesting play you are winning!
So I'm running an evil campaign and all of the characters are followers of a god. One character is a Warlock so I was trying to come up with a patron for him. He was surprised that the God wasn't going to be his patron. I always thought that gods could only grant divine magic, not arcane so we came up with a Patron with a backstory linking it to the god but I'm starting to wonder if it was necessary. Can a Warlock have a God who grants magic that way? Does that make sense? I'll probably stick with what we have now but for the future I kind of want to get some opinions.
Devious serpent folk devoid of compassion, yuan-ti manipulate other creatures by arousing their doubts, evoking their fears, and elevating and crushing their hopes. From remote temples in jungles, swamps, and deserts, the yuan-ti plot to supplant and dominate all other races and to make themselves gods.
If your asking for RAW it says in the PHB on page 108 under Otherwordly Patrons that patrons are inhabitants of other planes and not gods, but almost god like in their power. Your the DM though so do what you want.
If your asking for RAW it says in the PHB on page 108 under Otherwordly Patrons that patrons are inhabitants of other planes and not gods, but almost god like in their power. Your the DM though so do what you want.
RAW doesn't explicitly say Gods cant be patrons, but one would assume Gods would make use of clerics and paladins ( blackguards/anti paladins if the god is evil) you could always just reuse the clerics spell list for a specific domain
Evil God? Pick a prince/lord from one of the nine levels of hell. There's lots of background on them between official books and Wikipedia.
I think there's a more significant issue here. You shouldn't be asking "CAN", you're the DM! If it makes for a good story or drives player engagement, just say yes.
RAW doesn't explicitly say Gods cant be patrons, but one would assume Gods would make use of clerics and paladins ( blackguards/anti paladins if the god is evil) you could always just reuse the clerics spell list for a specific domain
technically this is from the handbook and it specifically says warlock patrons are not gods although who is going to stop one from making a pact. as far as divine vs arcane there are gods of arcane magic i believe. it would seem odd if they couldn't do it
"A warlock is defined by a pact with an otherworldly being. Sometimes the relationship between warlock and patron is like that of a cleric and a deity, though the beings that serve as patrons for warlocks are not gods. "
Also Asmodeus is listed as an Otherworldly patron, but is also very clearly referred to as a god since the Spellplague. So, his followers could either be warlocks or clerics. Whether this is a specific example that breaks the general rule, or a model that all deities _could_ be warlock patrons is unclear
I could see the god having clerics and paladins out in the open preaching the faith, acting in an ecclesiastical role, etc., and a warlock being a behind-the-scenes covert operative. Where a cleric is front and center promulgating the faith, the warlock is the back channel diplomat handling the messy jobs that need deitical plausible deniability.
"A warlock is defined by a pact with an otherworldly being. Sometimes the relationship between warlock and patron is like that of a cleric and a deity, though the beings that serve as patrons for warlocks are not gods. "
This wording has absolutely no effect on the mechanics of gameplay. Therefore, I think it should be treated as flavor text. It does serve a useful purpose in differentiating the typical relationship between a warlock and their patron from a cleric and their deity. This is further shown in the fact that all the listed example patrons in the manuals are not gods. To me, it's like saying a paladin gets their power from their oath, not from a deity--but there is certainly no issue with a paladin as a holy warrior serving a deity.
For example, I see no problem with a god of war being a patron for a hexblade warlock who happens to not worship them.
So I'm running an evil campaign and all of the characters are followers of a god. One character is a Warlock so I was trying to come up with a patron for him. He was surprised that the God wasn't going to be his patron. I always thought that gods could only grant divine magic, not arcane so we came up with a Patron with a backstory linking it to the god but I'm starting to wonder if it was necessary. Can a Warlock have a God who grants magic that way? Does that make sense? I'll probably stick with what we have now but for the future I kind of want to get some opinions.
You could certainly create a patron that is a deity. Just model the patron after one of the existing ones in the books or Unearthed Arcana, give him pact spells off the cleric spell list from the domain that fits the deity. Alternatively, the patron could be another servant of the deity, such as a powerful angel/solar or something homegrown of your own. One of the benefits of it NOT being the deity is that it might create some valuable role-play tension if the patron doesn't always see eye to eye with the deity.
There's no reason at all it can't be a god granting the warlock power in a bargain. The patron's role is really to set the them (and potential obligations). All the suggested patrons are suggestions, not rules or scales of power to do this. Sometimes a god wants a cleric. Sometimes they want a warlock. Could be that simple. So long as it creates fun and interesting play you are winning!
I say that anything powerful enough to have a warlock is powerful enough to have a cleric, and vice versa, but that's just my opinion.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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Devious serpent folk devoid of compassion, yuan-ti manipulate other creatures by arousing their doubts, evoking their fears, and elevating and crushing their hopes. From remote temples in jungles, swamps, and deserts, the yuan-ti plot to supplant and dominate all other races and to make themselves gods.
If your asking for RAW it says in the PHB on page 108 under Otherwordly Patrons that patrons are inhabitants of other planes and not gods, but almost god like in their power. Your the DM though so do what you want.
I got the you're wrong.... And you quoted it. Now everyone will know!
RAW doesn't explicitly say Gods cant be patrons, but one would assume Gods would make use of clerics and paladins ( blackguards/anti paladins if the god is evil) you could always just reuse the clerics spell list for a specific domain
Malti u kburi
I would think a god, especially an evil one, would use whatever avenue of gaining and spreading power he could.
Evil God? Pick a prince/lord from one of the nine levels of hell. There's lots of background on them between official books and Wikipedia.
I think there's a more significant issue here. You shouldn't be asking "CAN", you're the DM! If it makes for a good story or drives player engagement, just say yes.
technically this is from the handbook and it specifically says warlock patrons are not gods although who is going to stop one from making a pact. as far as divine vs arcane there are gods of arcane magic i believe. it would seem odd if they couldn't do it
"A warlock is defined by a pact with an otherworldly being. Sometimes the relationship between warlock and patron is like that of a cleric and a deity, though the beings that serve as patrons for warlocks are not gods. "
Thanks. I am of a similar opinion. One has to delve in the Similrilliin level lore to answer the question definitively.
Also Asmodeus is listed as an Otherworldly patron, but is also very clearly referred to as a god since the Spellplague. So, his followers could either be warlocks or clerics. Whether this is a specific example that breaks the general rule, or a model that all deities _could_ be warlock patrons is unclear
Your game, your rules. RAW is there as a guide but RAI can trump everything.
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I could see the god having clerics and paladins out in the open preaching the faith, acting in an ecclesiastical role, etc., and a warlock being a behind-the-scenes covert operative. Where a cleric is front and center promulgating the faith, the warlock is the back channel diplomat handling the messy jobs that need deitical plausible deniability.
Are you sure you aren't convoluting RAI with ROC or even Rule 0?
This wording has absolutely no effect on the mechanics of gameplay. Therefore, I think it should be treated as flavor text. It does serve a useful purpose in differentiating the typical relationship between a warlock and their patron from a cleric and their deity. This is further shown in the fact that all the listed example patrons in the manuals are not gods. To me, it's like saying a paladin gets their power from their oath, not from a deity--but there is certainly no issue with a paladin as a holy warrior serving a deity.
For example, I see no problem with a god of war being a patron for a hexblade warlock who happens to not worship them.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
My answer is heck yeah a diety can be a patron.
I love warlocks.