They said "don't have your party meet in a tavern". They said "it's boring and difficult and it doesn't work." They said "your characters will have a difficult time bonding." And I said "I'm brand new I want to do a tavern-meeting just once. What's the harm?"
I of course was wrong. My party met in a tavern. It worked... okay, but my players are too awkward IRL to really make it happen. They're helpful people, so they made it work, and have done a few quests together, and even my "loner" people are doing their best not to be obnoxious. But they could really use something to knit the group together a little better.
They've had a few dangerous fights, but they're low-level so the threats are small but deadly at the same time, and "bonding through combat trauma" doesn't seem to work. So, any ideas for situations I can put them in to help facilitate a little more bonding? Since the players aren't super motivated by gold, "you're working together for money" is doing an alright job, but I think they'd really like something stronger to build the party on, and I'm not sure what to offer them.
I'm sure the group feel will happen in time, and I also know I can't force it. But if anyone has fun ideas for how to make them feel like a party, I'd love to give them some experiences to help push things along.
What if you speed up introducing the main plot complication to give them a shared goal? Having them realize they are the only ones who can save the world (or town or whatever) can help bring them together, and give them a reason to stay together.
Do they have anything in their backstories that can connect them, even in ways they don’t realize? Like turns out the fighter’s cousin is an acolyte at the same temple where the cleric trained. Then if that temple is threatened, you have two party members with reasons to react to help.
P.S. Everyone is allowed to have them meet in a tavern at least once, it’s a pretty iconic D&D experience so don’t beat yourself up about it. Also, once per campaign you are allowed to introduce a new character by having them be a prisoner the party rescues.
Fate and Prophecy are my favourite tools for such situations.
Years back, I was playing in a game that a friend of mine started off running, with the "you're all in the same tavern when...." situation and I decided I needed to give the characters a reason to be together and a reason to care about each other.
I had the following happen:
They were in a busy tavern after the most recent adventure, when they all notice that it's suddenly gone super quiet .... oh, everyone has stopped moving, that['s pretty weird. Wait, even the flames of the fire and the flame on the candle on the table have stopped moving. Everyone and everything was affected, except for the player characters. They witnessed a shadowy outline of a figure walk walk into the room and grab one of the other people in the room by the shoulder, at which point they person grabbed crumpled to dust. One of the PCs jumps up and shouts at the shadowy figure, which looks surprised, then leaves and BAM everything returns to normal time, except the person on the floor who is dust.
The PCs follow-up and tell the mayor what happened, what they witnessed and the mayor isn't sure whether to believe them, so asks them to visit the nearby city and talk to the Duke and his advisor. This is, of course, all a plot hook. When they get there and meet the Duke's advisor - he talks to them and reveals a prophecy to them. It appears that all of the player characters are chronally displaced (time magic) and, of course, they then discover that the Goddess of Fate arranged for them to all be in the tavern on that first session.
Hopefully it's apparent how I progressed from there - I am not suggesting you just copy this, but I'm trying to illustrate how a DM can craft story that makes previous events seem like they were planned all along and part of the story, as well as using them to create a bond of some sort between the characters.
Cliches are cliches because they work, and there's nothing wrong with using something so iconic to get your game going!
I agree with Xalthu's suggestion to dig into the player's backstories for possible plot hooks. If they're all playing pretty nice people, one character facing an issue can rally the others to help. It can be as simple as searching for a spell component the cleric needs to cast a high level heal, or find a weapon the fighter needs to help be more effective. Or looking at friends and family that the characters have for missions the players can do to help them.
You could try to talk to the players off game, between sessions. Have a discussion with them. What reasons can they have to hang together, could they agree to do some adjustments that might tie them together as a group. Ask them what personal goals each player/character has, try to find a way together how they can become a group.
Sometimes it's easier to solve this out of game and not to try to solve it with roleplaying. I think that might was your mistake, and not that you chose to start at an inn.
You say your players are helpful, and they are probably also happy to try and solve this, since it will be a lot more fun to play in the end :-)
Have they got backstories? Just because they met in a tavern doesn't mean their life started there. What pasts could they have that have shared themes. Shared faiths. Do they have backstories?
If the Characters haven't bonded personally ( yet? ), then classic motivators like Common Goal and Common Threat work to get them through the adventure.
Examples: the Party hates each other ... but they all want to dethrone the evil Baron, so they are willing to work together until he's deposed; the Party hates each other ... but they've all contacted a mystical curse which will kill them in ___ months, unless they work together to find out what happened and how to break it. Stealing the plot fromThe Dirty Dozen : the Party has all been pulled off of death row, by the court Wizard, to perform a very dirty covert mission. If they succeed, they get their sentences commuted; if they fail, they die; if any of them flee they all die ( common goal and common threat - along with a motive to self-police each other ).
Those probably won't work for your particular Group - but they might spark some ideas on what you can add to the Party to give them "motivated self interest" in staying together.
Also: don't fret too much if this Party doesn't bond, and the Campaign ends up being short. That's not a failure; not all stories are 20-level spanning epics.
If you start a new Campaign, with new Characters, I'd advise building your Characters, and the Party, as a group - and have your Players build an integrated Party, with their own motivation for being together, from the beginning.
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Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
Offer the party a cool reward... then before they can collect it, the reward gets stolen. Nothing motivates players like having something taken from them.
People who say meeting in a tavern is bad are silly.
Even in real life, bars, pubs and taverns are great places to meet new people. If your characters (or players) are too socially awkward to fake introduce themselves to their compatriots, then ... well, there might be greater issues at play there. However, nothing is wrong with in media res'ing it. "You've been hired by X to do Y and you are already a day on the road there."
One technique I have found helpful is to have a non-combatant NPC impose their concept of the group on them. A situation where their group can form an identity as a group. If they’re rude to a Bard, have them make up an unflattering song as an example. The Bard could give the party an unflattering name maybe. Nothing brings a group together than a “personal” reason to work together collectively to prove someone else wrong. In the end they can either overturn that group name with one of their own, or they might choose to own that party name like a badge of honor. Whichever the case doesn’t matter, now they identify as a group because of that experience.
Before the US Civil War, people used to say “The United States are....” After the Civil War people started to say “The United States is....” because the national identity shifted from a collection of individual States, to a unified nation. What will be your party’s “are/is” moment?
Have they got backstories? Just because they met in a tavern doesn't mean their life started there. What pasts could they have that have shared themes. Shared faiths. Do they have backstories?
I've got backstory coming out my ears; we worked very hard on that. It's just a matter of twining the stories together that I'm still figuring out. They were pretty varied folks, so there's not a lot of obvious overlap. But I'm sure I can twist some threads together if I sit down and work through it a bit more. I've managed to connect two of them that way, it's just the others that are feeling a bit at loose ends.
People who say meeting in a tavern is bad are silly.
Even in real life, bars, pubs and taverns are great places to meet new people. If your characters (or players) are too socially awkward to fake introduce themselves to their compatriots, then ... well, there might be greater issues at play there. However, nothing is wrong with in media res'ing it. "You've been hired by X to do Y and you are already a day on the road there."
Yes, the problem is we're all actually really good friends, but everyone is very empathetic to the social horror they would feel in real life, just walking up to a stranger at a tavern. :D We're an awkward bunch--it's why we're friends.
We're a bit far in to just get them hired as a starting point, but I may still be able to work that in. We're doing the essentials kit, and they just got paid for the first time yesterday by Harbin. They think he's a tool but they did really like the getting paid part. So I think real gold might be more motivating than I'd expected for them.
...I may have the opposing force in the town hire them as well, put them between two contracts, with two sources of income, and a moral quandry, and see if that fixes it all.
Evweryone has been so helpful, and I appreciate it so much! Knowing that even though we're a few sessions in, I haven't totally botched this, is very comforting.
I've got backstory coming out my ears; we worked very hard on that. It's just a matter of twining the stories together that I'm still figuring out. They were pretty varied folks, so there's not a lot of obvious overlap. But I'm sure I can twist some threads together if I sit down and work through it a bit more. I've managed to connect two of them that way, it's just the others that are feeling a bit at loose ends.
Hi!
My "guess" is that the "mistake" you did was trusting in that with all the good backstories, well planned characters, and your helpful friends, they would find a way to found a great party if you just put them down at a table. The thing is, that could have worked! It does work from time to time and results in great parties. However, sometimes i doesn't, and it isn't yours or anybody's fault. It is completely impossible for a DM to know before the first session how each player will play his character, what they will react too etc, and frankly - that is what is really fun with the game. However, that can lead to situations like the one you describe. Think of first session as a die-roll. You did most things right, you rolled with advantage and +3, the DC was only 13, the odds were on your side, but this time you rolled badly. That's just a portion of bad luck. Next time you try it, it actually might work.
There's been a lot of good advice on how to "repair" the bad roll, and it's certainly possible. You could also consider for instance letting it pass some time in the game (like a month or so) where you only describes what is happening (a long travel, being stuck due to a winter storm). Then use that period of downtime to allow the players (not characters) to have a talk about how they get along, how this brings them closer together.
A lot of the advice here are very good ideas for what you might do as a DM, but it is important to know that the players are an essential part of the problem. Not because anybody has done something "wrong", but because they ended up creating characters that it sounds like doesn't have that many things in common to bond on. This happens from time to time, and sometimes the easiest thing is to just address this. You say you are good friends, and it sounds like your players are really helpful and wants this to work, then in my experience, sometimes just sitting down talking and try to find a solution off game can work miracles.
Are they having trouble roleplaying? Thats what it sounds like to me? Or are they roleplaying so hard they all created characters that just wouldn't have any connection and they are stick to it!!! lol I'm not really sure what is going on here but I think next time they are in the/a tavern just have a team based drinking competition game where they all get drunk and their inhibitions go out the window! (in game...also real life could help that too)
Are they having trouble roleplaying? Thats what it sounds like to me? Or are they roleplaying so hard they all created characters that just wouldn't have any connection and they are stick to it!!! lol I'm not really sure what is going on here but I think next time they are in the/a tavern just have a team based drinking competition game where they all get drunk and their inhibitions go out the window! (in game...also real life could help that too)
The problem does seem to be more the characters are role-playing heavily but also playing characters that wouldn't naturally hang out together.
They said "don't have your party meet in a tavern". They said "it's boring and difficult and it doesn't work." They said "your characters will have a difficult time bonding." And I said "I'm brand new I want to do a tavern-meeting just once. What's the harm?"
I of course was wrong. My party met in a tavern. It worked... okay, but my players are too awkward IRL to really make it happen. They're helpful people, so they made it work, and have done a few quests together, and even my "loner" people are doing their best not to be obnoxious. But they could really use something to knit the group together a little better.
They've had a few dangerous fights, but they're low-level so the threats are small but deadly at the same time, and "bonding through combat trauma" doesn't seem to work. So, any ideas for situations I can put them in to help facilitate a little more bonding? Since the players aren't super motivated by gold, "you're working together for money" is doing an alright job, but I think they'd really like something stronger to build the party on, and I'm not sure what to offer them.
I'm sure the group feel will happen in time, and I also know I can't force it. But if anyone has fun ideas for how to make them feel like a party, I'd love to give them some experiences to help push things along.
What if you speed up introducing the main plot complication to give them a shared goal? Having them realize they are the only ones who can save the world (or town or whatever) can help bring them together, and give them a reason to stay together.
Do they have anything in their backstories that can connect them, even in ways they don’t realize? Like turns out the fighter’s cousin is an acolyte at the same temple where the cleric trained. Then if that temple is threatened, you have two party members with reasons to react to help.
P.S. Everyone is allowed to have them meet in a tavern at least once, it’s a pretty iconic D&D experience so don’t beat yourself up about it. Also, once per campaign you are allowed to introduce a new character by having them be a prisoner the party rescues.
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D&D Beyond FoundersFate and Prophecy are my favourite tools for such situations.
Years back, I was playing in a game that a friend of mine started off running, with the "you're all in the same tavern when...." situation and I decided I needed to give the characters a reason to be together and a reason to care about each other.
I had the following happen:
They were in a busy tavern after the most recent adventure, when they all notice that it's suddenly gone super quiet .... oh, everyone has stopped moving, that['s pretty weird. Wait, even the flames of the fire and the flame on the candle on the table have stopped moving. Everyone and everything was affected, except for the player characters. They witnessed a shadowy outline of a figure walk walk into the room and grab one of the other people in the room by the shoulder, at which point they person grabbed crumpled to dust. One of the PCs jumps up and shouts at the shadowy figure, which looks surprised, then leaves and BAM everything returns to normal time, except the person on the floor who is dust.
The PCs follow-up and tell the mayor what happened, what they witnessed and the mayor isn't sure whether to believe them, so asks them to visit the nearby city and talk to the Duke and his advisor. This is, of course, all a plot hook. When they get there and meet the Duke's advisor - he talks to them and reveals a prophecy to them. It appears that all of the player characters are chronally displaced (time magic) and, of course, they then discover that the Goddess of Fate arranged for them to all be in the tavern on that first session.
Hopefully it's apparent how I progressed from there - I am not suggesting you just copy this, but I'm trying to illustrate how a DM can craft story that makes previous events seem like they were planned all along and part of the story, as well as using them to create a bond of some sort between the characters.
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InsiderCliches are cliches because they work, and there's nothing wrong with using something so iconic to get your game going!
I agree with Xalthu's suggestion to dig into the player's backstories for possible plot hooks. If they're all playing pretty nice people, one character facing an issue can rally the others to help. It can be as simple as searching for a spell component the cleric needs to cast a high level heal, or find a weapon the fighter needs to help be more effective. Or looking at friends and family that the characters have for missions the players can do to help them.
Find me on Twitter: @OboeLauren
You could try to talk to the players off game, between sessions. Have a discussion with them. What reasons can they have to hang together, could they agree to do some adjustments that might tie them together as a group. Ask them what personal goals each player/character has, try to find a way together how they can become a group.
Sometimes it's easier to solve this out of game and not to try to solve it with roleplaying. I think that might was your mistake, and not that you chose to start at an inn.
You say your players are helpful, and they are probably also happy to try and solve this, since it will be a lot more fun to play in the end :-)
Best of luck!
Ludo ergo sum!
Is there something they all care about? A friendly NPC, a location, a landmark?
Threaten it.
Have they got backstories? Just because they met in a tavern doesn't mean their life started there. What pasts could they have that have shared themes. Shared faiths. Do they have backstories?
I am firmly #ProTavern for the beginnings of campaigns. But then again, I like to start with a tavern brawl.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Some great suggestions so far.
If the Characters haven't bonded personally ( yet? ), then classic motivators like Common Goal and Common Threat work to get them through the adventure.
Examples: the Party hates each other ... but they all want to dethrone the evil Baron, so they are willing to work together until he's deposed; the Party hates each other ... but they've all contacted a mystical curse which will kill them in ___ months, unless they work together to find out what happened and how to break it. Stealing the plot from The Dirty Dozen : the Party has all been pulled off of death row, by the court Wizard, to perform a very dirty covert mission. If they succeed, they get their sentences commuted; if they fail, they die; if any of them flee they all die ( common goal and common threat - along with a motive to self-police each other ).
Those probably won't work for your particular Group - but they might spark some ideas on what you can add to the Party to give them "motivated self interest" in staying together.
Also: don't fret too much if this Party doesn't bond, and the Campaign ends up being short. That's not a failure; not all stories are 20-level spanning epics.
If you start a new Campaign, with new Characters, I'd advise building your Characters, and the Party, as a group - and have your Players build an integrated Party, with their own motivation for being together, from the beginning.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
Yes, but what about in D&D ;)
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
Offer the party a cool reward... then before they can collect it, the reward gets stolen. Nothing motivates players like having something taken from them.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Because of the fight in the tavern, all are put to jail for the night. There they meet someone telling them ...
playing since 1986
People who say meeting in a tavern is bad are silly.
Even in real life, bars, pubs and taverns are great places to meet new people. If your characters (or players) are too socially awkward to fake introduce themselves to their compatriots, then ... well, there might be greater issues at play there. However, nothing is wrong with in media res'ing it. "You've been hired by X to do Y and you are already a day on the road there."
One technique I have found helpful is to have a non-combatant NPC impose their concept of the group on them. A situation where their group can form an identity as a group. If they’re rude to a Bard, have them make up an unflattering song as an example. The Bard could give the party an unflattering name maybe. Nothing brings a group together than a “personal” reason to work together collectively to prove someone else wrong. In the end they can either overturn that group name with one of their own, or they might choose to own that party name like a badge of honor. Whichever the case doesn’t matter, now they identify as a group because of that experience.
Before the US Civil War, people used to say “The United States are....” After the Civil War people started to say “The United States is....” because the national identity shifted from a collection of individual States, to a unified nation. What will be your party’s “are/is” moment?
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I've got backstory coming out my ears; we worked very hard on that. It's just a matter of twining the stories together that I'm still figuring out. They were pretty varied folks, so there's not a lot of obvious overlap. But I'm sure I can twist some threads together if I sit down and work through it a bit more. I've managed to connect two of them that way, it's just the others that are feeling a bit at loose ends.
Yes, the problem is we're all actually really good friends, but everyone is very empathetic to the social horror they would feel in real life, just walking up to a stranger at a tavern. :D We're an awkward bunch--it's why we're friends.
We're a bit far in to just get them hired as a starting point, but I may still be able to work that in. We're doing the essentials kit, and they just got paid for the first time yesterday by Harbin. They think he's a tool but they did really like the getting paid part. So I think real gold might be more motivating than I'd expected for them.
...I may have the opposing force in the town hire them as well, put them between two contracts, with two sources of income, and a moral quandry, and see if that fixes it all.
Evweryone has been so helpful, and I appreciate it so much! Knowing that even though we're a few sessions in, I haven't totally botched this, is very comforting.
Hi!
My "guess" is that the "mistake" you did was trusting in that with all the good backstories, well planned characters, and your helpful friends, they would find a way to found a great party if you just put them down at a table. The thing is, that could have worked! It does work from time to time and results in great parties. However, sometimes i doesn't, and it isn't yours or anybody's fault. It is completely impossible for a DM to know before the first session how each player will play his character, what they will react too etc, and frankly - that is what is really fun with the game. However, that can lead to situations like the one you describe. Think of first session as a die-roll. You did most things right, you rolled with advantage and +3, the DC was only 13, the odds were on your side, but this time you rolled badly. That's just a portion of bad luck. Next time you try it, it actually might work.
There's been a lot of good advice on how to "repair" the bad roll, and it's certainly possible. You could also consider for instance letting it pass some time in the game (like a month or so) where you only describes what is happening (a long travel, being stuck due to a winter storm). Then use that period of downtime to allow the players (not characters) to have a talk about how they get along, how this brings them closer together.
A lot of the advice here are very good ideas for what you might do as a DM, but it is important to know that the players are an essential part of the problem. Not because anybody has done something "wrong", but because they ended up creating characters that it sounds like doesn't have that many things in common to bond on. This happens from time to time, and sometimes the easiest thing is to just address this. You say you are good friends, and it sounds like your players are really helpful and wants this to work, then in my experience, sometimes just sitting down talking and try to find a solution off game can work miracles.
Best of luck :-)
Ludo ergo sum!
Are they having trouble roleplaying? Thats what it sounds like to me? Or are they roleplaying so hard they all created characters that just wouldn't have any connection and they are stick to it!!! lol I'm not really sure what is going on here but I think next time they are in the/a tavern just have a team based drinking competition game where they all get drunk and their inhibitions go out the window! (in game...also real life could help that too)
Throw some Mistake Identity at them - the group is accused of a crime they didn't commit and now they have to clear their names!
The problem does seem to be more the characters are role-playing heavily but also playing characters that wouldn't naturally hang out together.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium