set up some ground rules before each play session, tell them the problems you have with what they are doing, but try to be as respectful as possible. If they begin those bad habits while you are playing, kindly interrupt them, or wait for them to finish. But try not to push the players away.
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Hell yeah I am going to Polymorph the boss into a Rabbit. I have always wanted a being a pure evil stuffed into a ball of fluff.
Don't punish them. Rise above that and talk to your players. Explain that when playing DnD you'd really like to keep the out of game chatter to a minimum and ask your dad not to meta. If they're decent players, they'll understand and abide by what you're saying and if not... no dnd is better than bad dnd.
Don't punish them. Rise above that and talk to your players. Explain that when playing D&D you'd really like to keep the out of game chatter to a minimum and ask your dad not to meta. If they're decent players, they'll understand and abide by what you're saying and if not... no d&d is better than bad d&d.
I want some sort of Infraction system, I know they don't mean to do it or try to do it so they can bug anyone, just there needs to be something there to remind them
I agree that you need to talk to your players. I would recommend you all sit down before or after a game session, to have a discussion and draw up an explicit social contract. You can then refer to that, as necessary.
Don't punish them. Rise above that and talk to your players. Explain that when playing D&D you'd really like to keep the out of game chatter to a minimum and ask your dad not to meta. If they're decent players, they'll understand and abide by what you're saying and if not... no d&d is better than bad d&d.
I want some sort of Infraction system, I know they don't mean to do it or try to do it so they can bug anyone, just there needs to be something there to remind them
What'll happen if you hit x amount of infractions? Does their character die? Do they get kicked out of the game? In which case if they hit those infractions constantly, then that's not a group you want to being gaming with.
A further note. I don't think you should use game mechanics to try to regulate the behavior of the players. That just doesn't work well. You need to address the behavior directly, person to person, to have any hope of actually resolving anything.
My favorite tool to get the table disciplined to the game is to unapologetically run my game as I want. Metagaming is impossible if I'm willing to reskin monsters or change things given my fiat as DM (oh, that's how undead work in the MM? yeah, not these ones in my world, they're basically reskinned undead type orcs so the CR isn't off). Getting distracted doesn't mean I'm going to pause the world.
After a couple of situations where they go "wait, what did you say?" and I say "the monsters get a surprise round" and they respond with how their CHARACTER would have been paying attention, I make it clear that I gave clues and hints and was describing the scene... you miss your chance to respond if you aren't paying attention.
Be assertive. Run your game. Don't let them walk over you.
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If players enjoy metagaming, then don't give them all the meta to do so. If you anticipate the metagame, have traps/detours planned en route to counter it. ...Perhaps they've given bad information in-game that they decide to metagame off of...
If you're deceitful enough and often, it will keep them investigating each time - not knowing how truthful or complete you were being.
Create custom monsters with unique traits and mechanics. It will get those veterans that see the world in numbers totally off guard.
One good and nice way to do so (that my actual Dungeon Master is using to keep our adventures fresh and exciting) is to make said mechanics cycle around a certain theme. This theme could be something related to your story and adventure like; cooperation, "doing the thing at the right moment", solve puzzles mid fights and so on.
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" Tawnos's blueprints were critical to the creation of my armor. As he once sealed himself in steel, I sealed myself in a walking crypt. "
The metagaming you can get around pretty quick. Just change around the monsters, adjust some abilities, generally rearrange things. Elsewhere there was a discussion about how a player was having issues with a metagamer knowing there were mimics in a dungeon, so he was very careful around treasure chests. So the DM just switched things around, so that the mimics were actually furniture instead.
As for the talking, if that happens in my group, I just stop talking myself. I use the time to do other things, like plan out the next events, or even just check facebook. If they're not interested in listening to me, then why should I bother trying to talk to them? Eventually, they'll realize I'm not trying to get their attention and they'll focus on me, and then we can continue. Or they won't. Either way, it's not worth my time to fight with them on it.
But yes, what everyone else said is the most important thing - talk to them. Tell them what your issues are, in a calm, rational manner. Explain that you need help from them so that everyone has a good time. You'll be surprised what a bit of conversation can do.
Thanks Everyone, I've made a Small Infraction Chart, and I'm Implementing your ideas, once you get enough infraction points, You get negative character Buffs
One thing we know pretty definitively about human psychology is that rewards work far better than punishment to change behavior. Be assertive and talk about your issues with your players and find ways to reward them for good behavior. Punishment isn't likely to do much, and your players may not even know exactly what they're being punished for. There's nothing wrong with just talking to your players.
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DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder) Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)
I regularly have to gather everyone's attention in my gaming group when I'm DMing. A firm throat clearing, but not too rude, is helpful for me. Waving my hand in a 'Bring-It-In' gesture and saying, "Alright, alright, back to the game now." also works well. My players have suggested that I get a gavel.
While I agree with the advice of discussing the problem with your players, if you still want to punish them for not paying attention, I have a couple suggestions.
1. If they have Inspiration, take it away. It's nothing but a slap on the wrist, but some people learn quickly this way.
2. When DMing for metagamers, I tend to call them out on it at the time of their metagaming. If they insist, I inflict small XP penalties. Of course, I warn them of this first.
Meta gaming crawls into many game sessions new and old. An honest open line of communication is required and not punitive tricks. Being a DM is very difficult at times and balancing the needs of the story, the needs/wants of the players can only be achieved with dialogue.
My suggestion would be to lay out your ground rules/requirements to the players and ask that they respect this in order to allow you to give them an enjoyable narrative.
Some nights everyone just need to chat and socialize more than game, and in those roll with it.
Honestly, I'm of the opinion that rewards should be given instead of punishments dished out. So if you're DMing a session and someone you know who would normally metagame doesn't, give them an inspiration. I've found in my games that it's a sorely underused mechanic, even to the point that one of the DMs in my group outright refuses to use it. In a few of my recent games, I've given inspiration for that, for killing blows on a boss, uniquely maneuvering roleplaying situations, etc. Or, if inspiration isn't your thing, perhaps experience bonuses if you're tracking experience.
Thanks Everyone, I've made a Small Infraction Chart, and I'm Implementing your ideas, once you get enough infraction points, You get negative character Buffs
I strongly advise to not take that route.
As others have advised, sit down with the group and discuss what's happening and the problems it causes for you. Try to avoid doing it in a confrontational manner.
Also, please remember that the role of the DM is not to be an authority figure or to be "in charge" of the players - you're there to facilitate the gameplay and lead a story.
About the chatter - be that teacher at school who holds their hand up until the room is quiet, perhaps?
About the metagaming - do have a word with your Dad. Then use some of the tricks mentioned here from time to time when he still does it. But let him do it still sometimes - it's part of his fun! Of course when it's too much it messes the game up for you too. Find a balance where you won't use sky-blue-pink-with-yellow-spots dragons if he doesn't abuse decades of gaming experience in every encounter ;-)
Punishing players and teaching them lessons in game is juvenile and ill-advised. Speak to them like an adult outside of the game and bring up your concerns and hammer out a compromise that is satisfactory to both of you, or find another group.
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"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
Thanks Everyone, I've made a Small Infraction Chart, and I'm Implementing your ideas, once you get enough infraction points, You get negative character Buffs
Ahm... In my experience this kind of thing won't work - is the other way around actually: They'll get pissed and blame you for everything.
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" Tawnos's blueprints were critical to the creation of my armor. As he once sealed himself in steel, I sealed myself in a walking crypt. "
—Urza
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set up some ground rules before each play session, tell them the problems you have with what they are doing, but try to be as respectful as possible. If they begin those bad habits while you are playing, kindly interrupt them, or wait for them to finish. But try not to push the players away.
Hell yeah I am going to Polymorph the boss into a Rabbit. I have always wanted a being a pure evil stuffed into a ball of fluff.
Don't punish them. Rise above that and talk to your players. Explain that when playing DnD you'd really like to keep the out of game chatter to a minimum and ask your dad not to meta. If they're decent players, they'll understand and abide by what you're saying and if not... no dnd is better than bad dnd.
I don't think infractions will work.
I agree that you need to talk to your players. I would recommend you all sit down before or after a game session, to have a discussion and draw up an explicit social contract. You can then refer to that, as necessary.
And by explicit, I mean write them down.
A further note. I don't think you should use game mechanics to try to regulate the behavior of the players. That just doesn't work well. You need to address the behavior directly, person to person, to have any hope of actually resolving anything.
My favorite tool to get the table disciplined to the game is to unapologetically run my game as I want. Metagaming is impossible if I'm willing to reskin monsters or change things given my fiat as DM (oh, that's how undead work in the MM? yeah, not these ones in my world, they're basically reskinned undead type orcs so the CR isn't off). Getting distracted doesn't mean I'm going to pause the world.
After a couple of situations where they go "wait, what did you say?" and I say "the monsters get a surprise round" and they respond with how their CHARACTER would have been paying attention, I make it clear that I gave clues and hints and was describing the scene... you miss your chance to respond if you aren't paying attention.
Be assertive. Run your game. Don't let them walk over you.
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If players enjoy metagaming, then don't give them all the meta to do so. If you anticipate the metagame, have traps/detours planned en route to counter it. ...Perhaps they've given bad information in-game that they decide to metagame off of...
If you're deceitful enough and often, it will keep them investigating each time - not knowing how truthful or complete you were being.
About the meta usage: Golden rule.
Create custom monsters with unique traits and mechanics. It will get those veterans that see the world in numbers totally off guard.
One good and nice way to do so (that my actual Dungeon Master is using to keep our adventures fresh and exciting) is to make said mechanics cycle around a certain theme. This theme could be something related to your story and adventure like; cooperation, "doing the thing at the right moment", solve puzzles mid fights and so on.
The metagaming you can get around pretty quick. Just change around the monsters, adjust some abilities, generally rearrange things. Elsewhere there was a discussion about how a player was having issues with a metagamer knowing there were mimics in a dungeon, so he was very careful around treasure chests. So the DM just switched things around, so that the mimics were actually furniture instead.
As for the talking, if that happens in my group, I just stop talking myself. I use the time to do other things, like plan out the next events, or even just check facebook. If they're not interested in listening to me, then why should I bother trying to talk to them? Eventually, they'll realize I'm not trying to get their attention and they'll focus on me, and then we can continue. Or they won't. Either way, it's not worth my time to fight with them on it.
But yes, what everyone else said is the most important thing - talk to them. Tell them what your issues are, in a calm, rational manner. Explain that you need help from them so that everyone has a good time. You'll be surprised what a bit of conversation can do.
Thanks Everyone, I've made a Small Infraction Chart, and I'm Implementing your ideas, once you get enough infraction points, You get negative character Buffs
One thing we know pretty definitively about human psychology is that rewards work far better than punishment to change behavior. Be assertive and talk about your issues with your players and find ways to reward them for good behavior. Punishment isn't likely to do much, and your players may not even know exactly what they're being punished for. There's nothing wrong with just talking to your players.
DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder)
Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)
I regularly have to gather everyone's attention in my gaming group when I'm DMing. A firm throat clearing, but not too rude, is helpful for me. Waving my hand in a 'Bring-It-In' gesture and saying, "Alright, alright, back to the game now." also works well. My players have suggested that I get a gavel.
While I agree with the advice of discussing the problem with your players, if you still want to punish them for not paying attention, I have a couple suggestions.
1. If they have Inspiration, take it away. It's nothing but a slap on the wrist, but some people learn quickly this way.
2. When DMing for metagamers, I tend to call them out on it at the time of their metagaming. If they insist, I inflict small XP penalties. Of course, I warn them of this first.
I'm just sane enough to admit my insanity.
Meta gaming crawls into many game sessions new and old. An honest open line of communication is required and not punitive tricks. Being a DM is very difficult at times and balancing the needs of the story, the needs/wants of the players can only be achieved with dialogue.
My suggestion would be to lay out your ground rules/requirements to the players and ask that they respect this in order to allow you to give them an enjoyable narrative.
Some nights everyone just need to chat and socialize more than game, and in those roll with it.
Just my two coppers.
Honestly, I'm of the opinion that rewards should be given instead of punishments dished out. So if you're DMing a session and someone you know who would normally metagame doesn't, give them an inspiration. I've found in my games that it's a sorely underused mechanic, even to the point that one of the DMs in my group outright refuses to use it. In a few of my recent games, I've given inspiration for that, for killing blows on a boss, uniquely maneuvering roleplaying situations, etc. Or, if inspiration isn't your thing, perhaps experience bonuses if you're tracking experience.
"I encourage peace."
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About the chatter - be that teacher at school who holds their hand up until the room is quiet, perhaps?
About the metagaming - do have a word with your Dad. Then use some of the tricks mentioned here from time to time when he still does it. But let him do it still sometimes - it's part of his fun! Of course when it's too much it messes the game up for you too. Find a balance where you won't use sky-blue-pink-with-yellow-spots dragons if he doesn't abuse decades of gaming experience in every encounter ;-)
Punishing players and teaching them lessons in game is juvenile and ill-advised. Speak to them like an adult outside of the game and bring up your concerns and hammer out a compromise that is satisfactory to both of you, or find another group.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.