So, my group wanted to talk to the lords of a large castle to discuss some business opportunities. They have never met these lords or even been to this city. They approached the guard and asked to see the lords, and the guards asked for identification and what they wanted to see the lords about. The PC talking to the guards wasn't being very convincing, and the guard asked her to move along, to which she kept insisting that she see the lords. The guards grew more and more irritated, thinking of the group as a threat now, they said they would arrest them if they didn't move along. They female PC continued being difficult, and as the guards went to arrest them, another PC spoke up, able to calm the situation. The guards allowed the party to walk away, but before walking away, the female PC made a comment to the guardsmen, basically threatening him, to which he responded with attempting to arrest the whole group. The group reacted in killing the guard that were there, but considering they were next to the royal keep, there was a very high concentration of guards in that area. By some miracle they were able to escape down a river, but now they have an entire kingdom looking for them.
The problem here is that the campaign I'm running has the PCs mingle with the lords of the realm quite a bit, now that the relationship is basically severed I'm not sure what to do. How can I have their crimes seem to be paid for without it seeming super unrealistic. A side note, they have done many good deeds for the surrounding smaller towns.
Actions have consequences. And I can see them having to do some serious work to undo what has been done.
In one story I read about a "shield hero" (a nickname because he could only use a shield), when he and some other heroes were called to defend the kingdom, the shield hero was wrongly accuse of a crime. In this case your characters actually did commit a crime. Word spread about the shield hero's crime. While many people believed he did it, some still chose to believe in the shield hero. He would do random acts of heroism against various things plaguing the nation as well as do his part in defending the nation against the bigger threat that is looming. Over time he had begun to win the hearts of the people by focusing on keeping them safe against all manner of threats while the other heroes were busy showing off in the battle. Eventually, some of the nobles and other powerful allies even began sticking up for him.
The point is that your party probably has options
1) a get out of jail free card given by a royal family member in desperate need of help or another noble for lesser punishment
2) winning the hearts of the people through random acts of kindness and heroism while avoiding capture
That's all I've got at the moment. I kind of like option 2. Following how the shield hero was able to help deal with the larger looming threat (the main plot) while completing random side quests to win the people's hearts. It gives the party a real motivator and not just a free pass for their actions. It also gives the party allies that can help them avoid capture long enough to earn their freedom back.
Edit:
3) I guess option 3 is become an evil party ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Actions have consequences. And I can see them having to do some serious work to undo what has been done.
In one story I read about a "shield hero" (a nickname because he could only use a shield), when he and some other heroes were called to defend the kingdom, the shield hero was wrongly accuse of a crime. In this case your characters actually did commit a crime. Word spread about the shield hero's crime. While many people believed he did it, some still chose to believe in the shield hero. He would do random acts of heroism against various things plaguing the nation as well as do his part in defending the nation against the bigger threat that is looming. Over time he had begun to win the hearts of the people by focusing on keeping them safe against all manner of threats while the other heroes were busy showing off in the battle. Eventually, some of the nobles and other powerful allies even began sticking up for him.
The point is that your party probably has options
1) a get out of jail free card given by a royal family member in desperate need of help or another noble for lesser punishment
2) winning the hearts of the people through random acts of kindness and heroism while avoiding capture
That's all I've got at the moment. I kind of like option 2. Following how the shield hero was able to help deal with the larger looming threat (the main plot) while completing random side quests to win the people's hearts. It gives the party a real motivator and not just a free pass for their actions. It also gives the party allies that can help them avoid capture long enough to earn their freedom back.
Edit:
3) I guess option 3 is become an evil party ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I like option 3, but there's also option 4.
4) Robin Hood gone wrong.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Another thing I did forget to mention is that they are actually a mostly evil party. The work they've done for local governments hasn't really been out of the goodness of their heart, but more because of the gold.
What do you guys think about having the crown brand them with a glyph or something that allows them to track the party and have them go around doing different tasks. Since they have proven themselves as competent in doing things like killing dragons, it would make sense for the crown to make an exception for something that would usually put someone to death. One problem with this is that it could put the campaign on rails in a very big way.
What do you guys think of that?
Thanks for the feedback, too. Really appreciate it!
You could somehow have the one person who killed the guard caught and executed a-la Braveheart style while the party members watch disguised in the crowd. Give them something to think about and a chance for the other player to re-roll without making the whole party re-roll.
Same way that Skyrim and the like handles it. They are accausted/attacked on sight. They are to be imprisoned and may not even get a trial. They are to be put to death. Have the Lords send out missives that these people are wanted murderers. They killed a man in cold blood who did nothing but try to arrest people making threats and demands with no verification or credentials.
You can't just get away with murder. People will be looking for you. There will be man hunts. People will want justice.
I guess they need to skip town and lay low for awhile. Spin up some wilderness stuff and sucks to be them. Guess they can't sell their grey items for trash gold now.
So, my group wanted to talk to the lords of a large castle to discuss some business opportunities. They have never met these lords or even been to this city. They approached the guard and asked to see the lords, and the guards asked for identification and what they wanted to see the lords about. The PC talking to the guards wasn't being very convincing, and the guard asked her to move along, to which she kept insisting that she see the lords. The guards grew more and more irritated, thinking of the group as a threat now, they said they would arrest them if they didn't move along. They female PC continued being difficult, and as the guards went to arrest them, another PC spoke up, able to calm the situation. The guards allowed the party to walk away, but before walking away, the female PC made a comment to the guardsmen, basically threatening him, to which he responded with attempting to arrest the whole group. The group reacted in killing the guard that were there, but considering they were next to the royal keep, there was a very high concentration of guards in that area. By some miracle they were able to escape down a river, but now they have an entire kingdom looking for them.
The problem here is that the campaign I'm running has the PCs mingle with the lords of the realm quite a bit, now that the relationship is basically severed I'm not sure what to do. How can I have their crimes seem to be paid for without it seeming super unrealistic. A side note, they have done many good deeds for the surrounding smaller towns.
Thanks in advance!
i think if you let them go and forgive them .... there is big chance they will do that again in another campaign and you will be screwed again.... i think you have to teach them a lesson
but when they get arrested and executed make it epic ..so at least they give a good fight and have fun doing it... something like half the group get caugh and the other half die trying to save them, then execute the rest of them like they should. or set them a trap to capture them something like that. They will think twice next time before killing a lord guard in a royal keep. And maybe someone in the group will talk to that girl before letting her emotion take over and kill who ever she want without thinking of the consequenses. If she herself didnt understood maybe someone else will and stop her from doing things like that in the future with her next character.
if you want to save the group. i suggest you set a trap .. capture the group ... make a trial .... hang the girl and force the group to be lord special assassin/team or something like that and send them in suicidal mission and see what happend ... for the girl ... next character could be a prisonner from the lord that he force to integrate the group for helping them in the sucidal mission.
Did the players want to mingle with lords? I understand that they wanted to see the lord, before the whole trouble started. But I'm asking if the business opportunity was the plot element that was driving the action, more than the nobility and status.
If they're doing good deeds out in the country, just let them play folk hero. Let them raid monster lairs for gold, then figure out where to put that gold that's not going to attract too much interest from the crown. Fantasy worlds are generally big enough that PCs can escape the mundane world for extended periods of time. If that's what they want, just get out of your own way and let them do it.
The guard they were talking to was killed, and this is a time before facial recognition technology goes beyond "That looks like the person". How many people actually "saw" the party clearly.
If someone has training in disguise kits, and they want to stay in the scenario, they could change their names and pretend to be a new party with new outfits. They could even maybe track down themselves and claim to have killed them for the local lord. This could be how they actually get into the political side of things!
Hats of Disguise could be really useful. The party could be both the Heroes and the Villains of the story!
In a Shadowrun game I once hired actors to pretend to be the party to meet The Johnson instead of us. We told them it's part of a "reality show". If The Johnson betrayed the party he'd kill the actors and we'd be ready in an ambush, if The Johnson didn't betray the party we'd collect the reward... tell them they did a great and pay them.
If you feel there must be consequences (and there should, because if this Lord isn't himself evil, then the other guards would logically stop putting their lives on the line to protect someone who won't protect them) then I can think of two options:
1. The party is hunted down by the guards who are accompanied by a powerful wizard or cleric working on behalf of the Lord. Enough guards to surround them and make it obvious that they could try to fight their way out if they want, but that wouldn't end well for them. They are given an ultimatum. The PC who committed the murder either goes to jail, or submits to a Geas spell which forces them to adventure to find the material components necessary to raise the murdered guard from the dead. Or, the Lord pays for the raise dead, and the Geas is the guarantee that the PC will do whatever necessary to repay the cost of the material components, or must do a "favour" as repayment.
2. The Lord does nothing "official" but he also doesn't stop the guards from taking their own revenge for the death of their comrade by hiring the assassin's guild to kill the PC in revenge.
ALSO: This post belongs in the Dungeon Masters Only section, not the Dungeon Master's Guild section.
Oh, and if your title were to be taken "literally" I'd be advising you call the police. ;-)
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
That depends on what your party wants to do now. IIRC they could drop NPC's to 0 hitpoint and not kill them but they choose to kill them anyway foolishly at the manor of a lord which they would know there were other guards nearby. Actions have consequences and at this point they might become fugitives in the neighborhood. Like someone pointed a good disguise might work but I highly doubt they can hide themselves like that long especially if they are really that repulsive. Another option is they can leave the neighborhood for good and go elsewhere to provide their services. Third option would be seeking redemption but if party is mostly evil I highly doubt they will pursue this option.
There is plenty of opportunity to develop the story here. I agree that the players need to learn a lesson, but you can do so in a way that will add flavor and drama to the campaign.
Like many of the others pointed out, I think that there will be those individuals in the story that would want to seek vengeance for the killing of an innocent guard. Have the PCs hunted down. Does the slain guard have a family? Does he have friends? Would any of his family or friends pick up sword or axe or bow and seek vengeance for his death? Would his family hire bounty hunters to track the PCs down? You can continue with your original story, and at various segments drop in complications that develop these scenarios. In this way, you can continue your campaign, but not have it completely thrown off course due to the murder. The crime will also stay present in the players' minds because of these continuous setbacks and challenges.
Maybe the PCs are eventually captured. What happens next? Would a lord loyal to the PCs stand up for them? Would this lord be willing to declare war for them? Would this lord be able to buy the party's way out, or negotiate for them and persuade a trial by combat? If this lord sides with the party, will the party owe him a favor down the road? What is the favor? Maybe this lord has some dirty work that the party can assist with in order to keep things quiet and maintain the lord's favor?
How does the rest of the realm react to this news? Would some Lords believe it? Would others disbelieve it? Maybe raise the Difficulty Challenge of skill checks in social situations if the NPCs know about the atrocious things that the party has done. You can even go so far as have shopkeepers and other establishments refuse to do business with the PCs because of these criminal acts (until their names are cleared, or they overcome the negative association).
There are lots of opportunities shy of "kill the party, they deserve it" with outcomes that will warn the players without having to sacrifice their characters.
MODS: This thread needs to be moved to the Dungeon Masters Only section.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
If the players are evil, I don't think teaching them a lesson is very realistic (or fun for play).
My suggestion would be to have them fall under the protection of one of the evil lords of your realm, that way their interests will mutually align and he/she can shield them from some of the consequences of that event. This is an excellent world and character building moment where the characters begin to become known throughout the land for something, and with reputation come new challenges and rewards.
"We're bad guys...it's what we do" Lean hard into them being evil. Their wanton murder of a guy doing what he was paid to do should please a god or goddess of chaos; sure your nobles may be defunct but who says the nobles aren't just as evil? Maybe instead of the quest or macguffin being handed out by Johnny Saint instead its now given out by his evil rival Bobby Sinner. For every batman/superman their is a joker/doomsday. Perhaps you could scare the party into becoming good because they drew the favor of a massive demon or evil diety who is a bit to "murder the parents and make their kids watch" for the parties taste.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So, my group wanted to talk to the lords of a large castle to discuss some business opportunities. They have never met these lords or even been to this city. They approached the guard and asked to see the lords, and the guards asked for identification and what they wanted to see the lords about. The PC talking to the guards wasn't being very convincing, and the guard asked her to move along, to which she kept insisting that she see the lords. The guards grew more and more irritated, thinking of the group as a threat now, they said they would arrest them if they didn't move along. They female PC continued being difficult, and as the guards went to arrest them, another PC spoke up, able to calm the situation. The guards allowed the party to walk away, but before walking away, the female PC made a comment to the guardsmen, basically threatening him, to which he responded with attempting to arrest the whole group. The group reacted in killing the guard that were there, but considering they were next to the royal keep, there was a very high concentration of guards in that area. By some miracle they were able to escape down a river, but now they have an entire kingdom looking for them.
The problem here is that the campaign I'm running has the PCs mingle with the lords of the realm quite a bit, now that the relationship is basically severed I'm not sure what to do. How can I have their crimes seem to be paid for without it seeming super unrealistic. A side note, they have done many good deeds for the surrounding smaller towns.
Thanks in advance!
Actions have consequences. And I can see them having to do some serious work to undo what has been done.
In one story I read about a "shield hero" (a nickname because he could only use a shield), when he and some other heroes were called to defend the kingdom, the shield hero was wrongly accuse of a crime. In this case your characters actually did commit a crime. Word spread about the shield hero's crime. While many people believed he did it, some still chose to believe in the shield hero. He would do random acts of heroism against various things plaguing the nation as well as do his part in defending the nation against the bigger threat that is looming. Over time he had begun to win the hearts of the people by focusing on keeping them safe against all manner of threats while the other heroes were busy showing off in the battle. Eventually, some of the nobles and other powerful allies even began sticking up for him.
The point is that your party probably has options
1) a get out of jail free card given by a royal family member in desperate need of help or another noble for lesser punishment
2) winning the hearts of the people through random acts of kindness and heroism while avoiding capture
That's all I've got at the moment. I kind of like option 2. Following how the shield hero was able to help deal with the larger looming threat (the main plot) while completing random side quests to win the people's hearts. It gives the party a real motivator and not just a free pass for their actions. It also gives the party allies that can help them avoid capture long enough to earn their freedom back.
Edit:
3) I guess option 3 is become an evil party ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Homebrew Rules || Homebrew FAQ || Snippet Codes || Tooltips
DDB Guides & FAQs, Class Guides, Character Builds, Game Guides, Useful Websites, and WOTC Resources
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
Another thing I did forget to mention is that they are actually a mostly evil party. The work they've done for local governments hasn't really been out of the goodness of their heart, but more because of the gold.
What do you guys think about having the crown brand them with a glyph or something that allows them to track the party and have them go around doing different tasks. Since they have proven themselves as competent in doing things like killing dragons, it would make sense for the crown to make an exception for something that would usually put someone to death. One problem with this is that it could put the campaign on rails in a very big way.
What do you guys think of that?
Thanks for the feedback, too. Really appreciate it!
I think you should have them executed and start over with your campaign.
There is no reason why any Lord should forgive someone for murdering one of his guards for doing his job *while guarding that Lord*.
This is what you get for running an evil campaign.
You could somehow have the one person who killed the guard caught and executed a-la Braveheart style while the party members watch disguised in the crowd. Give them something to think about and a chance for the other player to re-roll without making the whole party re-roll.
Same way that Skyrim and the like handles it. They are accausted/attacked on sight. They are to be imprisoned and may not even get a trial. They are to be put to death. Have the Lords send out missives that these people are wanted murderers. They killed a man in cold blood who did nothing but try to arrest people making threats and demands with no verification or credentials.
You can't just get away with murder. People will be looking for you. There will be man hunts. People will want justice.
I guess they need to skip town and lay low for awhile. Spin up some wilderness stuff and sucks to be them. Guess they can't sell their grey items for trash gold now.
Maybe the royal family doesn't really care about the guards and will accept financial compensation for the misdeed.
Maybe since they are an evil party they should have different goals, like working for a demon lord or something. I don't know. I don't allow evil PCs.
The answer is simple Life for a life, they killed the guards, have the lords demand the life of the one who started it
or
Have the lords send the party on a quest to some insane island where they have to fight a hard boss .
They made their bed now they have to lay in it, it's the down side to freedom of choice
Did the players want to mingle with lords? I understand that they wanted to see the lord, before the whole trouble started. But I'm asking if the business opportunity was the plot element that was driving the action, more than the nobility and status.
If they're doing good deeds out in the country, just let them play folk hero. Let them raid monster lairs for gold, then figure out where to put that gold that's not going to attract too much interest from the crown. Fantasy worlds are generally big enough that PCs can escape the mundane world for extended periods of time. If that's what they want, just get out of your own way and let them do it.
Here is a question. How well were they seen?
The guard they were talking to was killed, and this is a time before facial recognition technology goes beyond "That looks like the person". How many people actually "saw" the party clearly.
If someone has training in disguise kits, and they want to stay in the scenario, they could change their names and pretend to be a new party with new outfits. They could even maybe track down themselves and claim to have killed them for the local lord. This could be how they actually get into the political side of things!
Hats of Disguise could be really useful. The party could be both the Heroes and the Villains of the story!
In a Shadowrun game I once hired actors to pretend to be the party to meet The Johnson instead of us. We told them it's part of a "reality show". If The Johnson betrayed the party he'd kill the actors and we'd be ready in an ambush, if The Johnson didn't betray the party we'd collect the reward... tell them they did a great and pay them.
If you feel there must be consequences (and there should, because if this Lord isn't himself evil, then the other guards would logically stop putting their lives on the line to protect someone who won't protect them) then I can think of two options:
1. The party is hunted down by the guards who are accompanied by a powerful wizard or cleric working on behalf of the Lord. Enough guards to surround them and make it obvious that they could try to fight their way out if they want, but that wouldn't end well for them. They are given an ultimatum. The PC who committed the murder either goes to jail, or submits to a Geas spell which forces them to adventure to find the material components necessary to raise the murdered guard from the dead. Or, the Lord pays for the raise dead, and the Geas is the guarantee that the PC will do whatever necessary to repay the cost of the material components, or must do a "favour" as repayment.
2. The Lord does nothing "official" but he also doesn't stop the guards from taking their own revenge for the death of their comrade by hiring the assassin's guild to kill the PC in revenge.
ALSO: This post belongs in the Dungeon Masters Only section, not the Dungeon Master's Guild section.
Oh, and if your title were to be taken "literally" I'd be advising you call the police. ;-)
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I also have a hard time thinking that the PC are evil murders when they were just defending themselves from some thugs hired by the local dictator.
That depends on what your party wants to do now. IIRC they could drop NPC's to 0 hitpoint and not kill them but they choose to kill them anyway foolishly at the manor of a lord which they would know there were other guards nearby. Actions have consequences and at this point they might become fugitives in the neighborhood. Like someone pointed a good disguise might work but I highly doubt they can hide themselves like that long especially if they are really that repulsive. Another option is they can leave the neighborhood for good and go elsewhere to provide their services. Third option would be seeking redemption but if party is mostly evil I highly doubt they will pursue this option.
There is plenty of opportunity to develop the story here. I agree that the players need to learn a lesson, but you can do so in a way that will add flavor and drama to the campaign.
Like many of the others pointed out, I think that there will be those individuals in the story that would want to seek vengeance for the killing of an innocent guard. Have the PCs hunted down. Does the slain guard have a family? Does he have friends? Would any of his family or friends pick up sword or axe or bow and seek vengeance for his death? Would his family hire bounty hunters to track the PCs down? You can continue with your original story, and at various segments drop in complications that develop these scenarios. In this way, you can continue your campaign, but not have it completely thrown off course due to the murder. The crime will also stay present in the players' minds because of these continuous setbacks and challenges.
Maybe the PCs are eventually captured. What happens next? Would a lord loyal to the PCs stand up for them? Would this lord be willing to declare war for them? Would this lord be able to buy the party's way out, or negotiate for them and persuade a trial by combat? If this lord sides with the party, will the party owe him a favor down the road? What is the favor? Maybe this lord has some dirty work that the party can assist with in order to keep things quiet and maintain the lord's favor?
How does the rest of the realm react to this news? Would some Lords believe it? Would others disbelieve it? Maybe raise the Difficulty Challenge of skill checks in social situations if the NPCs know about the atrocious things that the party has done. You can even go so far as have shopkeepers and other establishments refuse to do business with the PCs because of these criminal acts (until their names are cleared, or they overcome the negative association).
There are lots of opportunities shy of "kill the party, they deserve it" with outcomes that will warn the players without having to sacrifice their characters.
MODS: This thread needs to be moved to the Dungeon Masters Only section.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
If the players are evil, I don't think teaching them a lesson is very realistic (or fun for play).
My suggestion would be to have them fall under the protection of one of the evil lords of your realm, that way their interests will mutually align and he/she can shield them from some of the consequences of that event. This is an excellent world and character building moment where the characters begin to become known throughout the land for something, and with reputation come new challenges and rewards.
i laugh every time I see this title. I really hope the players aren't literal murderers.
How do you get a one-armed goblin out of a tree?
Wave!
"We're bad guys...it's what we do" Lean hard into them being evil. Their wanton murder of a guy doing what he was paid to do should please a god or goddess of chaos; sure your nobles may be defunct but who says the nobles aren't just as evil? Maybe instead of the quest or macguffin being handed out by Johnny Saint instead its now given out by his evil rival Bobby Sinner. For every batman/superman their is a joker/doomsday. Perhaps you could scare the party into becoming good because they drew the favor of a massive demon or evil diety who is a bit to "murder the parents and make their kids watch" for the parties taste.