I use the CR number as a guideline only because it is misleading. I think it has a lot to do with your party makeup. Also bad dice roles on one side can make a big difference turning the tide of an encounter very quickly. Players die and TPKs happen and I can understand the want to avoid this. I myself go a bit easy on my players early on with an attempt to avoid any deaths, but it can still happen. Once you get a feel for your group it can become easier to judge the challenge you are throwing at them. What you can do in order to work encounters in the characters favor is fudge roles and even the remaining HP of the baddies. I know that some will shun at this idea but it works, especially if you are new at it. If you get the players into a situation that you feel is going to kill off a player or the whole group, just lower the remaining HP of the monsters. Even have them miss more often if you are hiding the dice rolls. Another thing you can do is reduce the amount the bad guys attack. Be creative with it even. I would not make a habit of it, as I still firmly believe that character death should be a real concern for the players. Dont be hard on yourself if a character dies, even if the player whos character has died call out something like "unfair" (my wife is that type of player, and she gets very upset in a childish way. Kinda funny actually).
I've read many of the other theories and I still think the DM guide is as good as any other, which still is 'not that good'.
Meaning every combination of races, classes and most importantly Players combined with hundreds of encounter options including different monsters and how well you play them + the uncertainty of the dice - can simple not be translated into a one size fits all solution.
My advice is to keep using the CR rating calculater but see how much they can take, just make a table for yourself:
RAW CR / Multiplier / CR result and then the results: Victory? / # times PC unconcious / # times PC died / Overall estimation: easy - medium - hard - deadly
Fill that table and use that to determine the level they can handle. Ohh yes, it's still not perfect, they might improve, and their levels will change :)
I'm almost certain they were experienced metagamers. Most people couldn't survive that.
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A party of 4 level 3s could probably handle a standard Wyvern.
Comparing that to my own players, being 4 level 3s... nope, they would probably get wrecked by a CR 6 Wyvern... the tail stinger alone with its 7d6 poison on a DC of 15 (total of 9d6+4) would most likely oneshot one of them, and then there is the second attack...
That said, my group uses standard point buy, so, the overall power level is slightly lower than it might be in other groups.
I had my group fight 2 Ochre Jellies... that cost them already a lot of resources that adventuring day.
I threw a cranked up Wyvern* at a party of 6 level three characters as the 1st of 4 escalating encounters for that day. They had no magic weapons, and still had no problems.
Blinding Dust. If Clawfang has surprise during the first round of combat, it can use this special attack. Swirls of blinding dust and sand billow out around Clawfang when it lands. Each creature within 15 feet must succeed on a DC 16 Constitution saving throw or be blinded until the end of the creature's next turn.
Potent Venom (Recharges after a Short or Long Rest). When Clawfang rolls a 1 or 2 on a damage die for the poison from a stinger attack, it can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2.
Actions
Multiattack. The wyvern makes two attacks: one with its bite and one with its stinger. While flying, it can use its claws in place of other attacks.
Bite.Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 10 ft., one creature. Hit: 11 (2d6 + 4) piercing damage.
Claws.Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 13 (2d8 + 4) slashing damage.
Stinger.Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 15 ft., one creature. Hit: 11 (2d6 + 4) piercing damage. The target must make a DC 15 Constitution saving throw, taking 24 (7d6) poison damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
Legendary Actions
Clawfang can take 1 legendary action, listed below. Only one legendary action option can be used at a time and only at the end of another creature's turn. Clawfang regains its spent legendary action at the start of its turn.
Attack. Clawfang makes one bite attack.
Description
Cousins to the great dragons, wyverns have two scaly legs, leathery wings, and a sinewy tail topped with a poison stinger that can kill a creature in seconds.
Clawfang is the name given to this particular Wyvern by the local garrison of the Order of the Griffin near Threshold. Clawfang is ancient as far as Wyvern go, and as such has grown to massive proportions compared to others of its species.
A party of 4 level 3s could probably handle a standard Wyvern.
Comparing that to my own players, being 4 level 3s... nope, they would probably get wrecked by a CR 6 Wyvern... the tail stinger alone with its 7d6 poison on a DC of 15 (total of 9d6+4) would most likely oneshot one of them, and then there is the second attack...
That said, my group uses standard point buy, so, the overall power level is slightly lower than it might be in other groups.
I had my group fight 2 Ochre Jellies... that cost them already a lot of resources that adventuring day.
I threw a cranked up Wyvern* at a party of 6 level three characters as the 1st of 4 escalating encounters for that day. They had no magic weapons, and still had no problems.
Blinding Dust. If Clawfang has surprise during the first round of combat, it can use this special attack. Swirls of blinding dust and sand billow out around Clawfang when it lands. Each creature within 15 feet must succeed on a DC 16 Constitution saving throw or be blinded until the end of the creature's next turn.
Potent Venom (Recharges after a Short or Long Rest). When Clawfang rolls a 1 or 2 on a damage die for the poison from a stinger attack, it can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2.
Actions
Multiattack. The wyvern makes two attacks: one with its bite and one with its stinger. While flying, it can use its claws in place of other attacks.
Bite.Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 10 ft., one creature. Hit: 11 (2d6 + 4) piercing damage.
Claws.Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 13 (2d8 + 4) slashing damage.
Stinger.Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 15 ft., one creature. Hit: 11 (2d6 + 4) piercing damage. The target must make a DC 15 Constitution saving throw, taking 24 (7d6) poison damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
Legendary Actions
Clawfang can take 1 legendary action, listed below. Only one legendary action option can be used at a time and only at the end of another creature's turn. Clawfang regains its spent legendary action at the start of its turn.
Attack. Clawfang makes one bite attack.
Description
Cousins to the great dragons, wyverns have two scaly legs, leathery wings, and a sinewy tail topped with a poison stinger that can kill a creature in seconds.
Clawfang is the name given to this particular Wyvern by the local garrison of the Order of the Griffin near Threshold. Clawfang is ancient as far as Wyvern go, and as such has grown to massive proportions compared to others of its species.
That was six level three characters tho, not four
Which is why I suggested a bog-standard Wyvern for only 4 PCs.
I use the CR number as a guideline only because it is misleading. I think it has a lot to do with your party makeup. Also bad dice roles on one side can make a big difference turning the tide of an encounter very quickly. Players die and TPKs happen and I can understand the want to avoid this. I myself go a bit easy on my players early on with an attempt to avoid any deaths, but it can still happen. Once you get a feel for your group it can become easier to judge the challenge you are throwing at them. What you can do in order to work encounters in the characters favor is fudge roles and even the remaining HP of the baddies. I know that some will shun at this idea but it works, especially if you are new at it. If you get the players into a situation that you feel is going to kill off a player or the whole group, just lower the remaining HP of the monsters. Even have them miss more often if you are hiding the dice rolls. Another thing you can do is reduce the amount the bad guys attack. Be creative with it even. I would not make a habit of it, as I still firmly believe that character death should be a real concern for the players. Dont be hard on yourself if a character dies, even if the player whos character has died call out something like "unfair" (my wife is that type of player, and she gets very upset in a childish way. Kinda funny actually).
I've read many of the other theories and I still think the DM guide is as good as any other, which still is 'not that good'.
Meaning every combination of races, classes and most importantly Players combined with hundreds of encounter options including different monsters and how well you play them + the uncertainty of the dice - can simple not be translated into a one size fits all solution.
My advice is to keep using the CR rating calculater but see how much they can take, just make a table for yourself:
RAW CR / Multiplier / CR result and then the results: Victory? / # times PC unconcious / # times PC died / Overall estimation: easy - medium - hard - deadly
Fill that table and use that to determine the level they can handle. Ohh yes, it's still not perfect, they might improve, and their levels will change :)
I'm almost certain they were experienced metagamers. Most people couldn't survive that.
Homebrew, homebrew, homebrew. I DM homebrew. I homebrew homebrew. My homebrew brews homebrew. I brewed by home. My home brews homebrewed homebrew, homebrewing homebrew that homebrews homebrewing homebrew.
That was six level three characters tho, not four
Mystic
Which is why I suggested a bog-standard Wyvern for only 4 PCs.
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