I'll admit I'm pretty tight passing out magical items. I think it comes from the fact that I feel Magic Items can really unbalance a game where I'd rather focus on story and adventure and not how 'bad(beep)' a character can be. (I know not all magic items or offense/defense based) Still, deeper i get into my return to DM'ing I'm starting to believe that line of thought is not always best for the party so I feel like I may need to loosen the purse strings so to speak.
With that said, the curret homebrew/mix-published campaign I'm running the party is 4th level and all they can show so for magical items is a driftglobe. The driftglobe was to help the only human of the part able to see well in the dark.
I've read the rules in Xanathars' and DM Guide on magic items rewarding and I sort of understand the points of the number of items by rarity types and how to use the tables, and I prefer random of what items are given than hand picking. So I have book rules in front of me and I can use those to guide me through magical item rewards but if feels like something is missing from it all.
So where I'm going with this. I would like to hear if anyone from the hive mind what process or alternative means to do you use for desciding or rewarding which magical items and how many to players.
I like the suggestion I heard from Sly Flourish, of Lazy Dungeon Masters Guide fame. He likes to incorporate “relics” by which he means consumable magic items. Think of it like a single use scroll without the incentive of the Wizard copying it into their spell book instead of using it. Bias toward utility and fun over offense/defense, but a 4th level party with a creepy doll containing a single use of Circle of Death can certainly be thrilling too!
The thing is, the rules sort of assume you will be giving out a certain quantity of magic items, give or take, and if you are not within that approximate ballpark, then your party will be underpowered as the level of enemies goes up. Monsters in the higher CRs have things like resistance or immunity to non-magic weapons, so if they have no magic weapons the encounter will be harder. And so on.
Also, players do enjoy getting magic items so even something like a drift globe can be fun for them. I try to be pretty free with giving out the minor stuff.
I hate the way XGE has detailed these things because they propose a # of items per character per level, but they do not differentiate between single-use items, like a scroll, and perma items, like a drift globe. Yes, the drift globe is weaker per minute than say, a scroll of fireball, but the scroll of fireball can be used once, ever, and the drift globe has value from level 2 when you awarded it, to level 20, in various situations. Added up over an entire campaign, that drift globe could turn the tide of more than one encounter, and the fireball again, can only turn the tide of battle once, and maybe not even then if the players get unlucky and the monsters save (or happen to have fire resistance).
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
The thing is, the rules sort of assume you will be giving out a certain quantity of magic items, give or take, and if you are not within that approximate ballpark, then your party will be underpowered as the level of enemies goes up. Monsters in the higher CRs have things like resistance or immunity to non-magic weapons, so if they have no magic weapons the encounter will be harder. And so on.
Also, players do enjoy getting magic items so even something like a drift globe can be fun for them. I try to be pretty free with giving out the minor stuff.
I hate the way XGE has detailed these things because they propose a # of items per character per level, but they do not differentiate between single-use items, like a scroll, and perma items, like a drift globe. Yes, the drift globe is weaker per minute than say, a scroll of fireball, but the scroll of fireball can be used once, ever, and the drift globe has value from level 2 when you awarded it, to level 20, in various situations. Added up over an entire campaign, that drift globe could turn the tide of more than one encounter, and the fireball again, can only turn the tide of battle once, and maybe not even then if the players get unlucky and the monsters save (or happen to have fire resistance).
I thought XGE had its number of items per party per level?
I like The DMG random charts, but I’ll occasionally Fudge the rolls. Say no one in the party uses heavy armor and I roll randomly they should have a suit of +1 chainmail. I’ll give that to them, but then when my next roll is +1 plate, I might change it to leather so someone can put it on. Now if I roll for something like a utility item, I just give it to them, of course, and see what interesting uses they might have for it.
(As an aside, I really liked the pathfinder system that lets you shift enchantments from one thing to another, so they can move that +1 from the plate to the leather themselves kind of thing. It’s especially nice since pretty much all the cool stuff weapon-wise is for swords, I mean, why no flame tongue battle axe? My DM is homebrewing something similar for us.)
I give out items based partly on the DMG charts but I pick from those charts instead of rolling. I do use XGE for a general sense of "how many items" to give out in total, but I don't love the way they have categorized things.
I think in the next campaign, if we ever get to another one, I'd make up my own random treasure charts before we start.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
(As an aside, I really liked the pathfinder system that lets you shift enchantments from one thing to another, so they can move that +1 from the plate to the leather themselves kind of thing. It’s especially nice since pretty much all the cool stuff weapon-wise is for swords, I mean, why no flame tongue battle axe? My DM is homebrewing something similar for us.)
The problem is that it is easily abused, hopefully with the attunement limits it will prevent this from happening too much, but I agree that it's a nice system as it is always annoying to find items that cannot actually be used by the characters.
How is it abused? Curious, not trying to pick a fight. You move it from one thing to another so if the DM doesn’t want the thing in the first place, they just don’t put it in. What am I not seeing?
Honestly, I never use the tables. My process is a more of a combination of factors.
1) When using a published adventure, I will start with what the writer has included and then modify that to what I think fits my world (It's a homebrew), the setting itself and the specific creature or location. For example, in an ancient temple, they found a statuette of a cleric that could grant an augury spell. [The item was actually an idea taken from a different module] and an NPC rewarded them with his +1 Longsword.
2) I have a mental list of utility items that I like to include in campaigns, These are things like a Drift Globe or Goggles of Night, a Efficient Quiver, Handy Haversack or Bag of Holding, a Cloak of Protection -- things that almost every party will be able to use. I also like to include scrolls and potions. Since these are basically one-shot items, they don't tend to overbalance the game.
3) I ask my players for wish lists and goals for their characters. Sure, sometimes the response is more an exercise in greed, but more often it gives me a good idea of what is important to them. The ranger who wants "a magic bow and some maps" is likely to find what he desires soon, either in treasure gained in a dungeon or available for sale in a shop. The Paladin who wants "a holy sword" is in for a longer wait or perhaps a personal quest.
4) Last and most importantly, I consider WHAT THEY NEED. After all, I am the one who knows what foes they are going to have to face and what challenges they will endure, so part of my job is to see they are equipped to handle them. So, if there are going to be were creatures, I make sure the party has at least one magic or silver weapon BEFORE that encounter. This also means that the treasury at the end of their current dungeon will include a homebrew Set of Fine Inks, made from rare and arcane ingredients and suitable for scribing spells into books or scrolls, because for the last 20 or so sessions the wizard has been carrying a scroll she refuses to use or sell. She wants to add it to her spell book.
The thing is, the rules sort of assume you will be giving out a certain quantity of magic items, give or take, and if you are not within that approximate ballpark, then your party will be underpowered as the level of enemies goes up. Monsters in the higher CRs have things like resistance or immunity to non-magic weapons, so if they have no magic weapons the encounter will be harder. And so on.
Also, players do enjoy getting magic items so even something like a drift globe can be fun for them. I try to be pretty free with giving out the minor stuff.
I hate the way XGE has detailed these things because they propose a # of items per character per level, but they do not differentiate between single-use items, like a scroll, and perma items, like a drift globe. Yes, the drift globe is weaker per minute than say, a scroll of fireball, but the scroll of fireball can be used once, ever, and the drift globe has value from level 2 when you awarded it, to level 20, in various situations. Added up over an entire campaign, that drift globe could turn the tide of more than one encounter, and the fireball again, can only turn the tide of battle once, and maybe not even then if the players get unlucky and the monsters save (or happen to have fire resistance).
there's a lot of truth here. Something else to consider is that if your martial characters are running into monsters that can't be hurt by mundane items, you are really screwing them hard. I personally LOVE getting magic items and mostly do not care about gold. I hate ye olde magic shoppe with a passion, because I like to find interesting things, not pick perfect things from a shelf during downtime. So I'd probably be extremely bored and dissatisfied in a game where I wasn't getting some kind of items.
My question to the OP would be why do you feel like magic items are unbalancing?
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
The thing is, the rules sort of assume you will be giving out a certain quantity of magic items, give or take, and if you are not within that approximate ballpark, then your party will be underpowered as the level of enemies goes up. Monsters in the higher CRs have things like resistance or immunity to non-magic weapons, so if they have no magic weapons the encounter will be harder. And so on.
Do you have a WOTC article or anything that states this? I've never heard it before and I can't find the old DND Next information... getting 404 on all that stuff. It just seems odd to me to assign a CR of 10 to a creature, but by design the character is supposed to negate the resistance/immunities that makes the CR that high in the first place....
Do you have a WOTC article or anything that states this? I've never heard it before
From Xanathar's Guide, at the end of their magic item section, I quote: "The Dungeon Master’s Guide assumes a certain amount of treasure will be found over the course of a campaign. Over twenty levels of typical play, the game expects forty-five rolls on the Treasure Hoard tables"
To repeat: The game (=the books, including MM and the MM stat blocks) expects a certain distribution of magic items equivalent to 45 rolls on the treasure hoard tables. If you don't give them that many rolls over the 20 levels, then as they level up, the party will increasingly fall "behind the curve" and will under-perform against monsters "of their level."
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
My take on a world is that it exists whether the characters exist or not. So my magic items are random. The PCs are exploring an ancient Serpantman temple that has been engulfed by a glacier for 1000 years, it's not going to have Boots of Winterland in it even though the PCs could use them (Serpantmen don't have feet), it's going to have a bronze Scimitar that does fire damage (because Serpantmen enemies were vulnerable to fire).
I understand that the seemingly common thing to do nowadays is cater everything to the characters, but I've never done that, I find it difficult. I will say though that I run a sandbox campaign in a homebrew world - which is way different than a module.
The thing is, the rules sort of assume you will be giving out a certain quantity of magic items, give or take, and if you are not within that approximate ballpark, then your party will be underpowered as the level of enemies goes up. Monsters in the higher CRs have things like resistance or immunity to non-magic weapons, so if they have no magic weapons the encounter will be harder. And so on.
Also, players do enjoy getting magic items so even something like a drift globe can be fun for them. I try to be pretty free with giving out the minor stuff.
I hate the way XGE has detailed these things because they propose a # of items per character per level, but they do not differentiate between single-use items, like a scroll, and perma items, like a drift globe. Yes, the drift globe is weaker per minute than say, a scroll of fireball, but the scroll of fireball can be used once, ever, and the drift globe has value from level 2 when you awarded it, to level 20, in various situations. Added up over an entire campaign, that drift globe could turn the tide of more than one encounter, and the fireball again, can only turn the tide of battle once, and maybe not even then if the players get unlucky and the monsters save (or happen to have fire resistance).
there's a lot of truth here. Something else to consider is that if your martial characters are running into monsters that can't be hurt by mundane items, you are really screwing them hard. I personally LOVE getting magic items and mostly do not care about gold. I hate ye olde magic shoppe with a passion, because I like to find interesting things, not pick perfect things from a shelf during downtime. So I'd probably be extremely bored and dissatisfied in a game where I wasn't getting some kind of items.
My question to the OP would be why do you feel like magic items are unbalancing?
Good question.
Understand I'm not talking about scrolls, potions, and plus # items that are manageable and I know any reward given is by my choice.
To me, it is about trying to keep the players from tearing into every encounter they find because they have been rewarded with magical items and the story gets put aside just to keep up for the players to have engaging combats. So my over all goal is try to understand and develop a balance of rewarding magic items where I know how much to give out, given the proper circumstances, and know when the characters have reached their limit.
My DM preference, at least in theory and attempt to enact, is character development in story driven campaigns and the reward them for their RP but not to see if the party can one-shot an adult red dragon on their first turn.
Do you have a WOTC article or anything that states this? I've never heard it before
From Xanathar's Guide, at the end of their magic item section, I quote: "The Dungeon Master’s Guide assumes a certain amount of treasure will be found over the course of a campaign. Over twenty levels of typical play, the game expects forty-five rolls on the Treasure Hoard tables"
To repeat: The game (=the books, including MM and the MM stat blocks) expects a certain distribution of magic items equivalent to 45 rolls on the treasure hoard tables. If you don't give them that many rolls over the 20 levels, then as they level up, the party will increasingly fall "behind the curve" and will under-perform against monsters "of their level."
It is interesting that Xanathar's has this block of text.
ARE MAGIC ITEMS NECESSARY IN A CAMPAIGN?
The D&D game is built on the assumption that magic items appear sporadically and that they are always a boon, unless an item bears a curse. Characters and monsters are built to face each other without the help of magic items, which means that having a magic item always makes a character more powerful or versatile than a generic character of the same level. As DM, you never have to worry about awarding magic items just so the characters can keep up with the campaign’s threats. Magic items are truly prizes. Are they useful? Absolutely. Are they necessary? No.
Magic items can go from nice to necessary in the rare group that has no spellcasters, no monk, and no NPCs capable of casting magic weapon. Having no magic makes it extremely difficult for a party to overcome monsters that have resistances or immunity to nonmagical damage. In such a game, you’ll want to be generous with magic weapons or else avoid using such monsters.
To me, if I want to have available higher CR creatures in my DM toolbox I'm going to need to reward a certain amount of magical items and not just potion and scrolls.
A lot of 5e magic items don't have + to them any more, which can help keep damage in check. For example, the moon-touched sword https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/moon-touched-sword is a common weapon, that just sheds some light. In most combats, it's going to function the same as a mundane sword. If you need a magic item to hit though, this works for your martial characters.
Another one that adds no bonus is https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/blood-spear which gives you some temp hps when you score a kill shot. Useful, sometimes, but isn't likely going to help someone mow through your combats.
Trying to find items that have no + and do not actually cast spells might be worth looking at as a balance point to get a feel for how they change your combats, while still rewarding your players with items that they can be a bit excited about.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Do you have a WOTC article or anything that states this? I've never heard it before
From Xanathar's Guide, at the end of their magic item section, I quote: "The Dungeon Master’s Guide assumes a certain amount of treasure will be found over the course of a campaign. Over twenty levels of typical play, the game expects forty-five rolls on the Treasure Hoard tables"
To repeat: The game (=the books, including MM and the MM stat blocks) expects a certain distribution of magic items equivalent to 45 rolls on the treasure hoard tables. If you don't give them that many rolls over the 20 levels, then as they level up, the party will increasingly fall "behind the curve" and will under-perform against monsters "of their level."
I understand that. And randomly they could get useful/desired magic weapons. But that bit of info (released 3 years after the main books) still doesn't state the design intent is to allow them to overcome resistances. I'm not trying to argue that you are wrong man, I was just wondering if you had the article that stated that intent in the design. Because I've never heard someone say that and it seems kind of interesting.
A lot of 5e magic items don't have + to them any more, which can help keep damage in check. For example, the moon-touched sword https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/moon-touched-sword is a common weapon, that just sheds some light. In most combats, it's going to function the same as a mundane sword. If you need a magic item to hit though, this works for your martial characters.
Another one that adds no bonus is https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/blood-spear which gives you some temp hps when you score a kill shot. Useful, sometimes, but isn't likely going to help someone mow through your combats.
Trying to find items that have no + and do not actually cast spells might be worth looking at as a balance point to get a feel for how they change your combats, while still rewarding your players with items that they can be a bit excited about.
This afternoon I was looking at items like the non-Plus weapons under the common magical item table and I see some items that could be of interest.
A lot of 5e magic items don't have + to them any more, which can help keep damage in check. For example, the moon-touched sword https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/moon-touched-sword is a common weapon, that just sheds some light. In most combats, it's going to function the same as a mundane sword. If you need a magic item to hit though, this works for your martial characters.
Another one that adds no bonus is https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/blood-spear which gives you some temp hps when you score a kill shot. Useful, sometimes, but isn't likely going to help someone mow through your combats.
Trying to find items that have no + and do not actually cast spells might be worth looking at as a balance point to get a feel for how they change your combats, while still rewarding your players with items that they can be a bit excited about.
This afternoon I was looking at items like the non-Plus weapons under the common magical item table and I see some items that could be of interest.
Reflavor or them too. I ran Tomb of Annihilation for a group (I don’t usually run modules) and all the random magic items I rolled I would reflavor to be chultan or of Mazticcan in nature. players never caught on and it added something to the game.
The title of this thread is asking how other DMs do things. This post is simply answering that question. This is by no means me telling anyone what they should do. I am not telling anyone they are wrong. Please respect that, and please return the curtesy. Thank you.
I use a combination of various things when it comes to awarding Magic Items when I DM.
Initially, I practically starve my players of Magic Items until at least 3rd or 4th level. At most, they get maybe 2-3 basic healing potions, and then maybe a small handful of other consumables. The purpose of this is threefold:
When the party (not a player, the whole party) finally gets something as basic as a +1 Dagger, it actually feels special for a while, instead of just another “souvenir.”
IMO, one of the major “shortcomings” of 5e is that if I make encounters according to the suggestions, and dole out Magic Items as suggested, then from my side of the screen combat sometimes seems more like a time-sucking nuisance than any real degree of “challenge” for the party. By limiting the PCs’ Magic Item access to permanent Common and consumable Uncommon items (with maybe 1 or 2 Rare consumables) for the first several levels, it then trickles up to higher levels as well because the expectation has already been set. That way, by the time they finally do get some permanent Uncommon-Rare items for the second tier, I know those will carry them for as long as possible without any expectation from the players of frequent upgrades.
It gives me time to figure out what parts of their characters they are least satisfied with so I can do some DM shenanigans for them. I’m sitting at the table and can hear their comments about their PC’s. I have found that, when armed with that information I feel better equipped to fulfill my responsibilities to the players as their DM. As examples:
A Rogue player might comment a few times that when they miss, their Sneak attack is unused. That’s a very common concern for many players. Now, there is at one option that is completely within the player’s agency to address that (two weapon fighting), and a second if the DM approves of the Multiclassing optional rule in their campaign. I have however heard from more than one player that they considered those options, but feel that they do not fit their character concept, and I respect that. While many folks answer to that is often “just use those mechanics and headcanon/reskin it as different,” I know how deeply unsatisfying that can be and won’t insist on that for my players.
A player in the same party might have planned a nonstandard, nonoptimized (yet no less valid) concept, and a build plan to execute it. They expect to underperform slightly until they Multiclass at 5th level when everything will come on line for them. Anticipating approximately 6-8 sessions to hit 5th level, that seems acceptable for them, so it’s okay by me. Unfortunately they misunderstood the Multiclassing requirements and where they put their Ability Scores won’t do, but they didn’t realize it and made that their dump stat thinking they would not need it.
Unfortunately I was not made aware of their full plan until around 3rd level. That’s when I notice that they they won’t actually be able to Multiclass until 9th level because they need the second ASI first..... That would be a very, very long time for that player to wait for their character to finally come together, and would severely disappoint and frustrate the player which is not okay by me.
* * *
Okay, now the party is approaching the end of the first tier of play and its time for me to start placing appropriate magic items into the campaign. But what items, how many, where, and from what sources?
Well, I figure that from 4th to 6th levels, the PCs should each start acquiring an item especially for them, unique items that can start to be their personal signature pieces. Kinda like how Conan found Krom’s sword. Those can sometimes be straight out of the DMG, but I often prefer a more personal touch, which usually means homebrew. As examples:
Referring back to my first example above, I can make a weapon that simply allows the PC to make two attacks with it whenever they take an Attack action on their turn. But how do I increase the odds that the it will actually go to the PC for which it was designed?
Well, I know that Player is particularly enamored of Kukris. So, I pick a handaxe as the base, give it finesse since the PC is a Rogue, and call it a Kukri, and because of the additional attack it's a “Quickened Kukri.” Since even something as simple as a +1 Dagger is still such a sought after piece because I choked the flow for a while, this piece still seams pretty baller. So I know they will continue to use it for at least the bulk of tier two if not potentially longer. And I can be fairly sure that when the party finds it, that specific player will light up and therefore their character will most likely make a strong case for it.
Referring back to the second example, an Attunement item that simply sets that player’s overloooked Ability score to 15 (13 would be too on the nose) is not a big deal, and I can be fairly sure that they will eventually swap it for an Attunement item they will find more useful since they had no plan to use that Ability anyway.
But not everything can be so custom suited to the party or it will break verisimilitude. It wouldn’t be realistic if every “special enemy” (designed as PCs instead of NPCs) was conspicuously equipped with exactly what the party needs. It would be even less realistic if it makes no sense for that particular enemy to choose that item when it wouldn’t suit them. That means that at least some of the stuff the party finds has to be specifically suited to the “bad persons” instead of the party. Some stuff has to be things that the party specifically has absolutely no use for, or it just won’t be as believable.
And then their are treasure hoards. It’s a hoard. Have you ever seen one of those shows about hoarders? That means that while a treasure hoard may have a few things that either the PCs or their players will specifically want, a lot of it has to at lest seem like a collection of random stuff. That’s what the random tables are for. I don’t always roll on the table, however. It has to seem random to the players, but it doesn’t actually have to be random. Of course, many times I do roll them randomly. Why? Because one of my greatest joys as a DM is to discover how incredibly inventive and resourceful the players can be with some completely random stuff they never thought they would use. When their backs are against the wall, the players’ ingenuity can be truly astounding.
And so, between 5th and 10th levels, the party has now acquired: at least one item per PC that is specifically designed for them; a handful of items that are useful but not “special;” a few items that are specifically designed to be fairly strong, but they have no real use for; and a small assortment of seemingly random items that could potentially be useful should the need ever arise. Figure around 1 permanent Rare item, 2 permanent Uncommon items and a handful of common items per PC, not including consumables like potions, scrolls, and crystals. (Crystals are kindasorta like scrolls that anybody can use just by breaking it. The balancing factor being their comparative fragility) There might be one or two Very Rare items in the party too just to wet their appetites for higher level play.
As you might have guessed, the 3rd and 4th tiers of play follow the same basic pattern, only the items get more powerful.
* * *
I also do something that the books all specifically say not to do. I have shoppes in my world where magic can be bought and sold. But they are specifically not “ye olde magic shoppes” by any means. I call them “Brokers” and are basically like pawn/consignment shops. Why? Well, the reasons are again (shockingly enough) threefold:
Brokers are a place where one can get Magic Items “appraised.” If absolutely nobody in that party can cast Identify, there are still places they can go to more or less have that done for them as a service.
I know that I will be giving the party stuff they will actively not want, so this is a means for them to try to offload the items without it just being a downtime “mini game.” They actually get to roleplay the interactions in game. This again is a way for me to increase emersion and verisimilitude. It also means that converting those items into cash can take as long as I need it to since one never knows when an item will sell at a consignment shop.
Its a way for me to take requests. Just because the party asks about a specific item, or an item that does a specific thing, that does not mean that the item will be available. If you’ve ever been inside of a pawn or consignment shop, you know that “inventory and pricing are subject to change without notice.” The point is not for them to be able to simply purchase whatever they want, but it is a way for me to hear directly from the players’ mouths what their characters want. And, it’s also a way for me be able to (eventually) put those things into the world without them conspicuously finding those items on the corpse of a fallen enemy, or tucked into a hoard somewhere. Its just another tool in my DM’s toolbox that I can use to (hopefully) prevent thins from feeling forced in a way that would break verisimilitude.
Alrighty then, that’s the basic premise of how I do things in a nutshell. I hope that maybe this information might be useful to someone.
I'll admit I'm pretty tight passing out magical items. I think it comes from the fact that I feel Magic Items can really unbalance a game where I'd rather focus on story and adventure and not how 'bad(beep)' a character can be. (I know not all magic items or offense/defense based) Still, deeper i get into my return to DM'ing I'm starting to believe that line of thought is not always best for the party so I feel like I may need to loosen the purse strings so to speak.
With that said, the curret homebrew/mix-published campaign I'm running the party is 4th level and all they can show so for magical items is a driftglobe. The driftglobe was to help the only human of the part able to see well in the dark.
I've read the rules in Xanathars' and DM Guide on magic items rewarding and I sort of understand the points of the number of items by rarity types and how to use the tables, and I prefer random of what items are given than hand picking. So I have book rules in front of me and I can use those to guide me through magical item rewards but if feels like something is missing from it all.
So where I'm going with this. I would like to hear if anyone from the hive mind what process or alternative means to do you use for desciding or rewarding which magical items and how many to players.
I like the suggestion I heard from Sly Flourish, of Lazy Dungeon Masters Guide fame. He likes to incorporate “relics” by which he means consumable magic items. Think of it like a single use scroll without the incentive of the Wizard copying it into their spell book instead of using it. Bias toward utility and fun over offense/defense, but a 4th level party with a creepy doll containing a single use of Circle of Death can certainly be thrilling too!
The thing is, the rules sort of assume you will be giving out a certain quantity of magic items, give or take, and if you are not within that approximate ballpark, then your party will be underpowered as the level of enemies goes up. Monsters in the higher CRs have things like resistance or immunity to non-magic weapons, so if they have no magic weapons the encounter will be harder. And so on.
Also, players do enjoy getting magic items so even something like a drift globe can be fun for them. I try to be pretty free with giving out the minor stuff.
I hate the way XGE has detailed these things because they propose a # of items per character per level, but they do not differentiate between single-use items, like a scroll, and perma items, like a drift globe. Yes, the drift globe is weaker per minute than say, a scroll of fireball, but the scroll of fireball can be used once, ever, and the drift globe has value from level 2 when you awarded it, to level 20, in various situations. Added up over an entire campaign, that drift globe could turn the tide of more than one encounter, and the fireball again, can only turn the tide of battle once, and maybe not even then if the players get unlucky and the monsters save (or happen to have fire resistance).
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I thought XGE had its number of items per party per level?
How do you distribute magic items rewards?
I like The DMG random charts, but I’ll occasionally Fudge the rolls. Say no one in the party uses heavy armor and I roll randomly they should have a suit of +1 chainmail. I’ll give that to them, but then when my next roll is +1 plate, I might change it to leather so someone can put it on. Now if I roll for something like a utility item, I just give it to them, of course, and see what interesting uses they might have for it.
(As an aside, I really liked the pathfinder system that lets you shift enchantments from one thing to another, so they can move that +1 from the plate to the leather themselves kind of thing. It’s especially nice since pretty much all the cool stuff weapon-wise is for swords, I mean, why no flame tongue battle axe? My DM is homebrewing something similar for us.)
I give out items based partly on the DMG charts but I pick from those charts instead of rolling. I do use XGE for a general sense of "how many items" to give out in total, but I don't love the way they have categorized things.
I think in the next campaign, if we ever get to another one, I'd make up my own random treasure charts before we start.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
How is it abused? Curious, not trying to pick a fight.
You move it from one thing to another so if the DM doesn’t want the thing in the first place, they just don’t put it in. What am I not seeing?
Honestly, I never use the tables. My process is a more of a combination of factors.
1) When using a published adventure, I will start with what the writer has included and then modify that to what I think fits my world (It's a homebrew), the setting itself and the specific creature or location. For example, in an ancient temple, they found a statuette of a cleric that could grant an augury spell. [The item was actually an idea taken from a different module] and an NPC rewarded them with his +1 Longsword.
2) I have a mental list of utility items that I like to include in campaigns, These are things like a Drift Globe or Goggles of Night, a Efficient Quiver, Handy Haversack or Bag of Holding, a Cloak of Protection -- things that almost every party will be able to use. I also like to include scrolls and potions. Since these are basically one-shot items, they don't tend to overbalance the game.
3) I ask my players for wish lists and goals for their characters. Sure, sometimes the response is more an exercise in greed, but more often it gives me a good idea of what is important to them. The ranger who wants "a magic bow and some maps" is likely to find what he desires soon, either in treasure gained in a dungeon or available for sale in a shop. The Paladin who wants "a holy sword" is in for a longer wait or perhaps a personal quest.
4) Last and most importantly, I consider WHAT THEY NEED. After all, I am the one who knows what foes they are going to have to face and what challenges they will endure, so part of my job is to see they are equipped to handle them. So, if there are going to be were creatures, I make sure the party has at least one magic or silver weapon BEFORE that encounter. This also means that the treasury at the end of their current dungeon will include a homebrew Set of Fine Inks, made from rare and arcane ingredients and suitable for scribing spells into books or scrolls, because for the last 20 or so sessions the wizard has been carrying a scroll she refuses to use or sell. She wants to add it to her spell book.
there's a lot of truth here. Something else to consider is that if your martial characters are running into monsters that can't be hurt by mundane items, you are really screwing them hard. I personally LOVE getting magic items and mostly do not care about gold. I hate ye olde magic shoppe with a passion, because I like to find interesting things, not pick perfect things from a shelf during downtime. So I'd probably be extremely bored and dissatisfied in a game where I wasn't getting some kind of items.
My question to the OP would be why do you feel like magic items are unbalancing?
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Do you have a WOTC article or anything that states this? I've never heard it before and I can't find the old DND Next information... getting 404 on all that stuff.
It just seems odd to me to assign a CR of 10 to a creature, but by design the character is supposed to negate the resistance/immunities that makes the CR that high in the first place....
...cryptographic randomness!
From Xanathar's Guide, at the end of their magic item section, I quote: "The Dungeon Master’s Guide assumes a certain amount of treasure will be found over the course of a campaign. Over twenty levels of typical play, the game expects forty-five rolls on the Treasure Hoard tables"
To repeat: The game (=the books, including MM and the MM stat blocks) expects a certain distribution of magic items equivalent to 45 rolls on the treasure hoard tables. If you don't give them that many rolls over the 20 levels, then as they level up, the party will increasingly fall "behind the curve" and will under-perform against monsters "of their level."
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
To address the OP question...
My take on a world is that it exists whether the characters exist or not. So my magic items are random.
The PCs are exploring an ancient Serpantman temple that has been engulfed by a glacier for 1000 years, it's not going to have Boots of Winterland in it even though the PCs could use them (Serpantmen don't have feet), it's going to have a bronze Scimitar that does fire damage (because Serpantmen enemies were vulnerable to fire).
I understand that the seemingly common thing to do nowadays is cater everything to the characters, but I've never done that, I find it difficult.
I will say though that I run a sandbox campaign in a homebrew world - which is way different than a module.
...cryptographic randomness!
Good question.
Understand I'm not talking about scrolls, potions, and plus # items that are manageable and I know any reward given is by my choice.
To me, it is about trying to keep the players from tearing into every encounter they find because they have been rewarded with magical items and the story gets put aside just to keep up for the players to have engaging combats. So my over all goal is try to understand and develop a balance of rewarding magic items where I know how much to give out, given the proper circumstances, and know when the characters have reached their limit.
My DM preference, at least in theory and attempt to enact, is character development in story driven campaigns and the reward them for their RP but not to see if the party can one-shot an adult red dragon on their first turn.
It is interesting that Xanathar's has this block of text.
To me, if I want to have available higher CR creatures in my DM toolbox I'm going to need to reward a certain amount of magical items and not just potion and scrolls.
A lot of 5e magic items don't have + to them any more, which can help keep damage in check. For example, the moon-touched sword https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/moon-touched-sword is a common weapon, that just sheds some light. In most combats, it's going to function the same as a mundane sword. If you need a magic item to hit though, this works for your martial characters.
Another one that adds no bonus is https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/blood-spear which gives you some temp hps when you score a kill shot. Useful, sometimes, but isn't likely going to help someone mow through your combats.
Trying to find items that have no + and do not actually cast spells might be worth looking at as a balance point to get a feel for how they change your combats, while still rewarding your players with items that they can be a bit excited about.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I understand that. And randomly they could get useful/desired magic weapons. But that bit of info (released 3 years after the main books) still doesn't state the design intent is to allow them to overcome resistances.
I'm not trying to argue that you are wrong man, I was just wondering if you had the article that stated that intent in the design. Because I've never heard someone say that and it seems kind of interesting.
...cryptographic randomness!
This afternoon I was looking at items like the non-Plus weapons under the common magical item table and I see some items that could be of interest.
Reflavor or them too.
I ran Tomb of Annihilation for a group (I don’t usually run modules) and all the random magic items I rolled I would reflavor to be chultan or of Mazticcan in nature.
players never caught on and it added something to the game.
...cryptographic randomness!
Disclaimer:
The title of this thread is asking how other DMs do things. This post is simply answering that question. This is by no means me telling anyone what they should do. I am not telling anyone they are wrong. Please respect that, and please return the curtesy. Thank you.
I use a combination of various things when it comes to awarding Magic Items when I DM.
Initially, I practically starve my players of Magic Items until at least 3rd or 4th level. At most, they get maybe 2-3 basic healing potions, and then maybe a small handful of other consumables. The purpose of this is threefold:
A Rogue player might comment a few times that when they miss, their Sneak attack is unused. That’s a very common concern for many players. Now, there is at one option that is completely within the player’s agency to address that (two weapon fighting), and a second if the DM approves of the Multiclassing optional rule in their campaign. I have however heard from more than one player that they considered those options, but feel that they do not fit their character concept, and I respect that. While many folks answer to that is often “just use those mechanics and headcanon/reskin it as different,” I know how deeply unsatisfying that can be and won’t insist on that for my players.
A player in the same party might have planned a nonstandard, nonoptimized (yet no less valid) concept, and a build plan to execute it. They expect to underperform slightly until they Multiclass at 5th level when everything will come on line for them. Anticipating approximately 6-8 sessions to hit 5th level, that seems acceptable for them, so it’s okay by me. Unfortunately they misunderstood the Multiclassing requirements and where they put their Ability Scores won’t do, but they didn’t realize it and made that their dump stat thinking they would not need it.
Unfortunately I was not made aware of their full plan until around 3rd level. That’s when I notice that they they won’t actually be able to Multiclass until 9th level because they need the second ASI first..... That would be a very, very long time for that player to wait for their character to finally come together, and would severely disappoint and frustrate the player which is not okay by me.
* * *
Okay, now the party is approaching the end of the first tier of play and its time for me to start placing appropriate magic items into the campaign. But what items, how many, where, and from what sources?
Well, I figure that from 4th to 6th levels, the PCs should each start acquiring an item especially for them, unique items that can start to be their personal signature pieces. Kinda like how Conan found Krom’s sword. Those can sometimes be straight out of the DMG, but I often prefer a more personal touch, which usually means homebrew. As examples:
Referring back to my first example above, I can make a weapon that simply allows the PC to make two attacks with it whenever they take an Attack action on their turn. But how do I increase the odds that the it will actually go to the PC for which it was designed?
Well, I know that Player is particularly enamored of Kukris. So, I pick a handaxe as the base, give it finesse since the PC is a Rogue, and call it a Kukri, and because of the additional attack it's a “Quickened Kukri.” Since even something as simple as a +1 Dagger is still such a sought after piece because I choked the flow for a while, this piece still seams pretty baller. So I know they will continue to use it for at least the bulk of tier two if not potentially longer. And I can be fairly sure that when the party finds it, that specific player will light up and therefore their character will most likely make a strong case for it.
Referring back to the second example, an Attunement item that simply sets that player’s overloooked Ability score to 15 (13 would be too on the nose) is not a big deal, and I can be fairly sure that they will eventually swap it for an Attunement item they will find more useful since they had no plan to use that Ability anyway.
But not everything can be so custom suited to the party or it will break verisimilitude. It wouldn’t be realistic if every “special enemy” (designed as PCs instead of NPCs) was conspicuously equipped with exactly what the party needs. It would be even less realistic if it makes no sense for that particular enemy to choose that item when it wouldn’t suit them. That means that at least some of the stuff the party finds has to be specifically suited to the “bad persons” instead of the party. Some stuff has to be things that the party specifically has absolutely no use for, or it just won’t be as believable.
And then their are treasure hoards. It’s a hoard. Have you ever seen one of those shows about hoarders? That means that while a treasure hoard may have a few things that either the PCs or their players will specifically want, a lot of it has to at lest seem like a collection of random stuff. That’s what the random tables are for. I don’t always roll on the table, however. It has to seem random to the players, but it doesn’t actually have to be random. Of course, many times I do roll them randomly. Why? Because one of my greatest joys as a DM is to discover how incredibly inventive and resourceful the players can be with some completely random stuff they never thought they would use. When their backs are against the wall, the players’ ingenuity can be truly astounding.
And so, between 5th and 10th levels, the party has now acquired: at least one item per PC that is specifically designed for them; a handful of items that are useful but not “special;” a few items that are specifically designed to be fairly strong, but they have no real use for; and a small assortment of seemingly random items that could potentially be useful should the need ever arise. Figure around 1 permanent Rare item, 2 permanent Uncommon items and a handful of common items per PC, not including consumables like potions, scrolls, and crystals. (Crystals are kindasorta like scrolls that anybody can use just by breaking it. The balancing factor being their comparative fragility) There might be one or two Very Rare items in the party too just to wet their appetites for higher level play.
As you might have guessed, the 3rd and 4th tiers of play follow the same basic pattern, only the items get more powerful.
* * *
I also do something that the books all specifically say not to do. I have shoppes in my world where magic can be bought and sold. But they are specifically not “ye olde magic shoppes” by any means. I call them “Brokers” and are basically like pawn/consignment shops. Why? Well, the reasons are again (shockingly enough) threefold:
Alrighty then, that’s the basic premise of how I do things in a nutshell. I hope that maybe this information might be useful to someone.
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