I'm doing a campaign and a few members have recently become obsessed with being Cannibals and killers.
They just want to kill and eat everything that resembles a person or humanoid figure.
The problem is that they are level 2 currently, and many of the people they are interacting with, not only have a higher cr and would be difficult to kill, but is kinda important to the story.
There's currently a Succubus wondering with the party, until a character figures it out and outs her and she runs, and he just wants to devour her. I'm so confused on how to deal with this,
Suggestions?
Do I just let him eat everyone and apply the effects of cannibalism?
Do I let him pick up an archetype or prestige class and allow the cannibalism in a modified way to balance it with the rest of the 5e campaign?
Thoughts?
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Head of Play By Post Westmarch Myuelta - Always welcoming players and DMs with open arms
Forever DM for 10 years | Player for 9 | Too Many TTRPGs
Establish boundaries. And if anyone crosses them, speak up. If they don’t listen, there’s always cloudkill … -Tasha
A) Embrace it. The campaign is now about the characters being cannibals and attempting to get away with it as the world around them reacts as it reasonably should to cannibalistic serial murderers. Instead of the prime antagonist being something like an evil lord ruling from some distant castle that eventually has to be invaded, the prime antagonist is something like a good investigator poised to catch the party if they make too many mistakes committing their crimes.
B) Tell the players outright that you are not interested in this sort of campaign. Be clear about what sort of campaign you are interested in running, and invite them to play along. If they don't want to play the sort of campaign you do, insisting that they want to do what they want to do even if you don't like it, that's when you stop playing with those players and find new ones (no matter how hard that seems to you, no matter whether they are your friends, no matter if they think you are a jerk for not letting them walk all over you - it's never as hard to find a new group as people claim it is (I've built dozens, so I'd know if it were hard), friends don't have to do literally everything together, and people that insist you are being a jerk because you want to have a good time too aren't worth anyone's time).
You could also make them catch sewer plague or some other disease from eating bodies.
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Devious serpent folk devoid of compassion, yuan-ti manipulate other creatures by arousing their doubts, evoking their fears, and elevating and crushing their hopes. From remote temples in jungles, swamps, and deserts, the yuan-ti plot to supplant and dominate all other races and to make themselves gods.
If you want to embrace it, read up on gnolls. There's a lot of information in Volo's Guide to Monsters, but the basic premise is that a long time ago, Yeenoghu and his pack of hyenas went on a murderous rampage across the material plane. Some of the hyenas who stopped to eat the fallen transformed into gnolls. It might be fun for this player to perhaps multiclass into a warlock of Yeenoghu or gain a flaw along the lines of "Nothing tastes better than flesh".
Of course, if it's not fun for you, then don't let it happen.
"The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass; a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read." - Terry Pratchett
Yes, not all of them want to be that. Just a few want to kill everything and one wants to eat everyone.
Are the other party members into this and of an alignment that would tolerate this kind of behavior? If the whole group is OK with it, then that’s fine. However, if this causes a conflict that is going to ruin the group dynamic then I would encourage you to consider having a conversation with everyone.
Again, I would just have them catch diseases from eating raw corpses to discourage them from eating those... ew.
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Devious serpent folk devoid of compassion, yuan-ti manipulate other creatures by arousing their doubts, evoking their fears, and elevating and crushing their hopes. From remote temples in jungles, swamps, and deserts, the yuan-ti plot to supplant and dominate all other races and to make themselves gods.
I may have to because half of them are okay with it and half are not, So facilitating a conversation where this is a topic may be helpful for the group as a whole, and also me in deciding how exactly to deal with it.
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Head of Play By Post Westmarch Myuelta - Always welcoming players and DMs with open arms
Forever DM for 10 years | Player for 9 | Too Many TTRPGs
Establish boundaries. And if anyone crosses them, speak up. If they don’t listen, there’s always cloudkill … -Tasha
yeah -- outright killing them is likely to be no good, they will likely get upset because they are just playing the way they want to. Allowing it to continue also will be no good, as the other players seem to not want that and don't want to suffer the consequences of it. This will either split your party in 2, or result in 1/2 the party becoming detained or killed. Best bet is talk to the players about how you're playing the game head on, and see if everyone is still interested. Some may not want to change, in which case you can only do so much and the game won't be for every player currently at the table.
As I keep saying, if they get sick from eating bodies, they won't want to eat them anymore. Even better, you could make the killed people have Kyuss worms in them (they haven't died yet though) like with the spawn of Kyuss.
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Devious serpent folk devoid of compassion, yuan-ti manipulate other creatures by arousing their doubts, evoking their fears, and elevating and crushing their hopes. From remote temples in jungles, swamps, and deserts, the yuan-ti plot to supplant and dominate all other races and to make themselves gods.
I think you might also want to ask "why do they want to be cannibals?" both from a player and a character point of view.
Unless the character is either insane, evil or from an unusual culture then cannibalism is pretty unlikely for the character.
From a player perspective, cannibalism is socially unacceptable so the player must have a reason for wanting to follow this up. Most likely the player either wants to shock one or more of the other players or the DM. From your description, it sounds like one of the characters is the ringleader (the one who wants to eat things) and another is playing along. Is this happening because they are bored with the campaign? Or are they intentionally trying to ruin/disrupt the play experience of one or more of the other players? Is it an attempt to get attention and derail the campaign since if you follow up on this story line then the entire campaign will focus on these characters and the efforts taken to catch and eliminate the threat to the general public.
If the entire party was into this type of game play then there would not be an issue, you could just go with it, assuming you were also ok with it too. However, from your description, it sounds like this is a fundamental issue that is likely to divide the party (and my guess is that it is being done intentionally based on your comments since it would be very uncommon for folks to choose to role play cannibalism in a group where the idea would not be well received by everyone).
Finally, you mention that the characters are level 2. Consider the situation logically ... serial killer cannibals in any society are a threat to the general public. Civilized areas ... towns, villages, etc. ... will have defensive forces who will act to counter such a threat since, depending on your game world, there are already a lot of threats to the populace that are evil and run the risk of being a similar threat. e.g. Orcs, gnolls, undead, and many worse.
So ... what happens? A level 5 cleric will cast speak with dead on one of the victims and get descriptions if not names for each the perpetrators. Once the characters have been identified, the a quick cast of Augury (2nd level cleric spell) might well reveal if catching these characters would remove the threat to the population. The 4th level cleric spell divination might be usable to identify the killer(s) and/or their location directly depending on how the DM decides to use the spell. In addition, once caught the 2nd level cleric spell Zone of Truth will ensure that the characters caught are actually guilty. In addition, once sufficient evidence has been gathered, a 9th level cleric could cast the 5th level Scrying spell to find the characters if that is a problem.
Basically, the characters live within a society where these types of threats are common and civilized areas will have the necessary means at hand to eradicate threats like these within their borders. Bottom line? Level 2 homicidal cannibals will be caught and executed very quickly if they become a significant threat.
He is a chaotic Neutral alignment, I should however point out that he either genuinely doesn't understand when we explain what it means, or refuses to care.
Upon explaining several times there will be issues and implications if he continues on and decides to eat people, he just keeps on pushing for it, and requesting things that are out of the realm of possibilities for a level 2 fighter. As I explain he just gets more defensive and tries to get it anyway by persuading me, though it's not working.
He honestly just wants to eat people because you can't do it normally or inmost video games, he just /wants/ to do it no matter how it will effect his character. He doesn't have some big plan on why he wants to - no offense to my player but in addition to him being new, he doesn't know enough to think that far ahead and plan to intimidate or see what could happen because of it.
I believe simply if he continues on pushing for things he simply cannot have (like do level 10 cleric spells, or summon things without items, or train summons from my summoner in seconds.) and continues to try to eat people, I will have to potentially have his character die... As he is mainly causing issues for the other players and making it difficult to progress their campaign as it should be progressing. (Aside from my other players struggling on their own and taking seven days to talk to people in an inn)
Anyway- I might go ahead and use the Cleric spells and such- I did not know those existed so much as to be able to have the NPC use them and find them. Thank you for that insight and information.
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Head of Play By Post Westmarch Myuelta - Always welcoming players and DMs with open arms
Forever DM for 10 years | Player for 9 | Too Many TTRPGs
Establish boundaries. And if anyone crosses them, speak up. If they don’t listen, there’s always cloudkill … -Tasha
...I will have to potentially have his character die...
I suggest not trying to solve this problem, which is clearly an out-of-character problem, with this in-character method. Instead, just tell the player that if they are going to continue to play in this way which is "causing issues for other players and making it difficult to progress their campaign" that they will no longer be allowed to play.
Arbitrarily killing of a character doesn't really say "Stop being a jerk" like people expect that it will. What it actually says is "I'm a jerk" to the player on the receiving end, and is usually met with escalation of issues rather than adjustment of behavior when used on a problem player (and with non-problem players, is usually met with them no longer showing up to play with the DM that appears to be a jerk for killing their character).
I feel after several conversations about the topic and no improvement it may just be best to have them stop attending, removing their character from the campaign is the method of removing them.
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Head of Play By Post Westmarch Myuelta - Always welcoming players and DMs with open arms
Forever DM for 10 years | Player for 9 | Too Many TTRPGs
Establish boundaries. And if anyone crosses them, speak up. If they don’t listen, there’s always cloudkill … -Tasha
Aaron is saying not to kill him with him present and still invited to the table, as that would escalate things more than just asking him not to attend anymore. If you ask him to no longer attend, and he no longer attends, then kill his character off for your story if you really want to (so as not to do it in his face as a show of "this is how I'm removing you").
I mean he is going to show up expecting a 3-6 hour D&D session, get killed off, then be angry as he planned to play the game this night and he was removed because you don't like the way he was playing. I think telling him beforehand he isn't welcome is better off, as neither of you are wasting your time then with it, and he can go spend his night doing something else.
Edit: adding this -- maybe hestill thinks you're a jerk for doing this, but the rest of the table won't. It shows you tried to be willing to allow him to continue, but he didn't want to, if you just kill him off while you're there, the other players could potentially think "Could this happen to me if I do something the DM doesn't like?" and then make for a lesser overall experience for everyone at the table.
I'm doing a campaign and a few members have recently become obsessed with being Cannibals and killers.
They just want to kill and eat everything that resembles a person or humanoid figure.
The problem is that they are level 2 currently, and many of the people they are interacting with, not only have a higher cr and would be difficult to kill, but is kinda important to the story.
There's currently a Succubus wondering with the party, until a character figures it out and outs her and she runs, and he just wants to devour her.
I'm so confused on how to deal with this,
Suggestions?
Do I just let him eat everyone and apply the effects of cannibalism?
Do I let him pick up an archetype or prestige class and allow the cannibalism in a modified way to balance it with the rest of the 5e campaign?
Thoughts?
Head of Play By Post Westmarch Myuelta - Always welcoming players and DMs with open arms
Forever DM for 10 years | Player for 9 | Too Many TTRPGs
Two options.
A) Embrace it. The campaign is now about the characters being cannibals and attempting to get away with it as the world around them reacts as it reasonably should to cannibalistic serial murderers. Instead of the prime antagonist being something like an evil lord ruling from some distant castle that eventually has to be invaded, the prime antagonist is something like a good investigator poised to catch the party if they make too many mistakes committing their crimes.
B) Tell the players outright that you are not interested in this sort of campaign. Be clear about what sort of campaign you are interested in running, and invite them to play along. If they don't want to play the sort of campaign you do, insisting that they want to do what they want to do even if you don't like it, that's when you stop playing with those players and find new ones (no matter how hard that seems to you, no matter whether they are your friends, no matter if they think you are a jerk for not letting them walk all over you - it's never as hard to find a new group as people claim it is (I've built dozens, so I'd know if it were hard), friends don't have to do literally everything together, and people that insist you are being a jerk because you want to have a good time too aren't worth anyone's time).
You mentioned it was a few of the party members, does that mean that not all of the party members want to be cannibalistic serial murderers?
Yes, not all of them want to be that. Just a few want to kill everything and one wants to eat everyone.
Head of Play By Post Westmarch Myuelta - Always welcoming players and DMs with open arms
Forever DM for 10 years | Player for 9 | Too Many TTRPGs
I might have to pull a combination of them for the party.
Thank you for the insight with that!!! I like the idea of them being almost caught as well.
Head of Play By Post Westmarch Myuelta - Always welcoming players and DMs with open arms
Forever DM for 10 years | Player for 9 | Too Many TTRPGs
You could also make them catch sewer plague or some other disease from eating bodies.
Devious serpent folk devoid of compassion, yuan-ti manipulate other creatures by arousing their doubts, evoking their fears, and elevating and crushing their hopes. From remote temples in jungles, swamps, and deserts, the yuan-ti plot to supplant and dominate all other races and to make themselves gods.
If you want to embrace it, read up on gnolls. There's a lot of information in Volo's Guide to Monsters, but the basic premise is that a long time ago, Yeenoghu and his pack of hyenas went on a murderous rampage across the material plane. Some of the hyenas who stopped to eat the fallen transformed into gnolls. It might be fun for this player to perhaps multiclass into a warlock of Yeenoghu or gain a flaw along the lines of "Nothing tastes better than flesh".
Of course, if it's not fun for you, then don't let it happen.
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"The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass; a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read." - Terry Pratchett
Again, I would just have them catch diseases from eating raw corpses to discourage them from eating those... ew.
Devious serpent folk devoid of compassion, yuan-ti manipulate other creatures by arousing their doubts, evoking their fears, and elevating and crushing their hopes. From remote temples in jungles, swamps, and deserts, the yuan-ti plot to supplant and dominate all other races and to make themselves gods.
Disease is possible, perhaps if it gets too out of hand and they eat too many people!
Head of Play By Post Westmarch Myuelta - Always welcoming players and DMs with open arms
Forever DM for 10 years | Player for 9 | Too Many TTRPGs
I may have to because half of them are okay with it and half are not, So facilitating a conversation where this is a topic may be helpful for the group as a whole, and also me in deciding how exactly to deal with it.
Head of Play By Post Westmarch Myuelta - Always welcoming players and DMs with open arms
Forever DM for 10 years | Player for 9 | Too Many TTRPGs
yeah -- outright killing them is likely to be no good, they will likely get upset because they are just playing the way they want to. Allowing it to continue also will be no good, as the other players seem to not want that and don't want to suffer the consequences of it. This will either split your party in 2, or result in 1/2 the party becoming detained or killed. Best bet is talk to the players about how you're playing the game head on, and see if everyone is still interested. Some may not want to change, in which case you can only do so much and the game won't be for every player currently at the table.
How do you get a one-armed goblin out of a tree?
Wave!
As I keep saying, if they get sick from eating bodies, they won't want to eat them anymore. Even better, you could make the killed people have Kyuss worms in them (they haven't died yet though) like with the spawn of Kyuss.
Devious serpent folk devoid of compassion, yuan-ti manipulate other creatures by arousing their doubts, evoking their fears, and elevating and crushing their hopes. From remote temples in jungles, swamps, and deserts, the yuan-ti plot to supplant and dominate all other races and to make themselves gods.
I think you might also want to ask "why do they want to be cannibals?" both from a player and a character point of view.
Unless the character is either insane, evil or from an unusual culture then cannibalism is pretty unlikely for the character.
From a player perspective, cannibalism is socially unacceptable so the player must have a reason for wanting to follow this up. Most likely the player either wants to shock one or more of the other players or the DM. From your description, it sounds like one of the characters is the ringleader (the one who wants to eat things) and another is playing along. Is this happening because they are bored with the campaign? Or are they intentionally trying to ruin/disrupt the play experience of one or more of the other players? Is it an attempt to get attention and derail the campaign since if you follow up on this story line then the entire campaign will focus on these characters and the efforts taken to catch and eliminate the threat to the general public.
If the entire party was into this type of game play then there would not be an issue, you could just go with it, assuming you were also ok with it too. However, from your description, it sounds like this is a fundamental issue that is likely to divide the party (and my guess is that it is being done intentionally based on your comments since it would be very uncommon for folks to choose to role play cannibalism in a group where the idea would not be well received by everyone).
Finally, you mention that the characters are level 2. Consider the situation logically ... serial killer cannibals in any society are a threat to the general public. Civilized areas ... towns, villages, etc. ... will have defensive forces who will act to counter such a threat since, depending on your game world, there are already a lot of threats to the populace that are evil and run the risk of being a similar threat. e.g. Orcs, gnolls, undead, and many worse.
So ... what happens? A level 5 cleric will cast speak with dead on one of the victims and get descriptions if not names for each the perpetrators. Once the characters have been identified, the a quick cast of Augury (2nd level cleric spell) might well reveal if catching these characters would remove the threat to the population. The 4th level cleric spell divination might be usable to identify the killer(s) and/or their location directly depending on how the DM decides to use the spell. In addition, once caught the 2nd level cleric spell Zone of Truth will ensure that the characters caught are actually guilty. In addition, once sufficient evidence has been gathered, a 9th level cleric could cast the 5th level Scrying spell to find the characters if that is a problem.
Basically, the characters live within a society where these types of threats are common and civilized areas will have the necessary means at hand to eradicate threats like these within their borders. Bottom line? Level 2 homicidal cannibals will be caught and executed very quickly if they become a significant threat.
He is a chaotic Neutral alignment, I should however point out that he either genuinely doesn't understand when we explain what it means, or refuses to care.
Upon explaining several times there will be issues and implications if he continues on and decides to eat people, he just keeps on pushing for it, and requesting things that are out of the realm of possibilities for a level 2 fighter. As I explain he just gets more defensive and tries to get it anyway by persuading me, though it's not working.
He honestly just wants to eat people because you can't do it normally or inmost video games, he just /wants/ to do it no matter how it will effect his character. He doesn't have some big plan on why he wants to - no offense to my player but in addition to him being new, he doesn't know enough to think that far ahead and plan to intimidate or see what could happen because of it.
I believe simply if he continues on pushing for things he simply cannot have (like do level 10 cleric spells, or summon things without items, or train summons from my summoner in seconds.) and continues to try to eat people, I will have to potentially have his character die... As he is mainly causing issues for the other players and making it difficult to progress their campaign as it should be progressing. (Aside from my other players struggling on their own and taking seven days to talk to people in an inn)
Anyway- I might go ahead and use the Cleric spells and such- I did not know those existed so much as to be able to have the NPC use them and find them. Thank you for that insight and information.
Head of Play By Post Westmarch Myuelta - Always welcoming players and DMs with open arms
Forever DM for 10 years | Player for 9 | Too Many TTRPGs
I feel after several conversations about the topic and no improvement it may just be best to have them stop attending, removing their character from the campaign is the method of removing them.
Head of Play By Post Westmarch Myuelta - Always welcoming players and DMs with open arms
Forever DM for 10 years | Player for 9 | Too Many TTRPGs
Aaron is saying not to kill him with him present and still invited to the table, as that would escalate things more than just asking him not to attend anymore. If you ask him to no longer attend, and he no longer attends, then kill his character off for your story if you really want to (so as not to do it in his face as a show of "this is how I'm removing you").
I mean he is going to show up expecting a 3-6 hour D&D session, get killed off, then be angry as he planned to play the game this night and he was removed because you don't like the way he was playing. I think telling him beforehand he isn't welcome is better off, as neither of you are wasting your time then with it, and he can go spend his night doing something else.
Edit: adding this -- maybe he still thinks you're a jerk for doing this, but the rest of the table won't. It shows you tried to be willing to allow him to continue, but he didn't want to, if you just kill him off while you're there, the other players could potentially think "Could this happen to me if I do something the DM doesn't like?" and then make for a lesser overall experience for everyone at the table.
How do you get a one-armed goblin out of a tree?
Wave!