Hello again folks, so I know barbarian and monk have their own forms of unarmored defense, but various bits of HB have forms of it for subclasses or feats. Is there a way to make a functioning form Beyond? I know there's the draconic bloodline sorcerer that makes it a 13 + Dex, but what I'm working with is a "Con + Cha". So is there a way to do that? Or would it just have to be manually changed on the character sheet? If so, that's fine.
Hm... I don't know if it will work and can't verify it at the moment, but you may be able to try it out before I can get to it: 2 separate features granting bonus unarmored AC for each stat, or just bonus AC in general and just not wear armor.
Hm... I don't know if it will work and can't verify it at the moment, but you may be able to try it out before I can get to it: 2 separate features granting bonus unarmored AC for each stat, or just bonus AC in general and just not wear armor.
Sorry, 2 separate"bonuses" not "features". Can confirm that this works, though.
Thanks again, to both of you. Sorry I'm just now responding, had a killer headache yesterday. Also, for some reason it's still adding Dex rather than Cha but the rest works.
I believe I already know the answer, but i'll ask anyway: why set/bonus rather than bonus/bonus?
Why do you think?
To designate a "main" stat for the backend to use alongside the "bonus" once dex is removed?
But this where I am getting confused... the calculations shouldn't be any different when implemented as a feat rather than feature, right? The "ignore" modifier does not work on my test example (though the Tortle method does work on a different example). Or is it supposed to be set/set AND bonus/bonus?
I believe I already know the answer, but i'll ask anyway: why set/bonus rather than bonus/bonus?
Why do you think?
To designate a "main" stat for the backend to use alongside the "bonus" once dex is removed?
But this where I am getting confused... the calculations shouldn't be any different when implemented as a feat rather than feature, right? The "ignore" modifier does not work on my test example (though the Tortle method does work on a different example). Or is it supposed to be set/set AND bonus/bonus?
You’re right and mistaken. You’re right that it’s to set a “main” stat. Technically it does work with Bonus & Bonus. But two bonuses with this hinky, janked system…?!? That’s gotta be a bug waiting to happen one of these days. However, if one were to use Set & Set that’s already a bug.
Yes, a Feat and a Feature should work the same in this regard, but I’ve never tried it with a feat. 🤷♂️
I believe I already know the answer, but i'll ask anyway: why set/bonus rather than bonus/bonus?
Why do you think?
To designate a "main" stat for the backend to use alongside the "bonus" once dex is removed?
But this where I am getting confused... the calculations shouldn't be any different when implemented as a feat rather than feature, right? The "ignore" modifier does not work on my test example (though the Tortle method does work on a different example). Or is it supposed to be set/set AND bonus/bonus?
You’re right and mistaken. You’re right that it’s to set a “main” stat. Technically it does work with Bonus & Bonus. But two bonuses with this hinky, janked system…?!? That’s gotta be a big waiting to happen one of these days. However, if one were to use Set & Set that’s already a bug.
Yes, a Feat and a Feature should work the same in this regard, but I’ve never tried it with a feat. 🤷♂️
Hm. May I request 3rd party verification? Only way I got the feat to work "properly" was bonus/bonus+ and set unarmored dex contribution to 0. It could absolutely be that I still managed to muck it up somehow, but in the event that I didn't...
Ok. So I did some more investigating. It technically works, but may not be the way it is intended to. The backend seems to use the higher of DEX or CHA (the "set" modifier) + the CON (the "bonus" modifier). I tend to prioritize DEX and dump CHA, so it took a while to see the trend as I was testing each character I have ready. The only time it fully worked was when CHA was greater than DEX, like your test character (does not work even if they are equal). Also did not even show up as an option for a barbarian, but still interacted with monk.
If that is the way it is supposed to go, then yea,
Ok. So I did some more investigating. It technically works, but may not be the way it is intended to. The backend seems to use the higher of DEX or CHA (the "set" modifier) + the CON (the "bonus" modifier). I tend to prioritize DEX and dump CHA, so it took a while to see the trend as I was testing each character I have ready. The only time it fully worked was when CHA was greater than DEX, like your test character (does not work even if they are equal). Also did not even show up as an option for a barbarian, but still interacted with monk.
If that is the way it is supposed to go, then yea,
So it does… hunh. In all this time that hasn’t come up until now AFAIK. It’s not every day I learn something new about that contraption. Thank you both!
Yeah, unfortunately the Armor Class calculation coding options are useful but limited; you can especially see this with a Tortle Monk. DDB is still gonna be janky until we can specifically have a modifier Set - Armor Class or Set - Unarmored Armor Class MOD + MOD + fixed value (with no assumed DEX) so it's all in one and not using the Bonus modifiers for AC, since that applies to all applicable armor class calculations.
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So it does… hunh. In all this time that hasn’t come up until now AFAIK. It’s not every day I learn something new about that contraption. Thank you both!
Absolutely. To be fair, it is not everyday that someone wants to substitute dex either. That said, would you suggest leaving it as is, or perhaps adding in the Tortle method to exclude dex altogether? Having it use the higher number is actually kinda useful, but it may not be what is intended depending on what the subclass feature is supposed to be.
So it does… hunh. In all this time that hasn’t come up until now AFAIK. It’s not every day I learn something new about that contraption. Thank you both!
Absolutely. To be fair, it is not everyday that someone wants to substitute dex either. That said, would you suggest leaving it as is, or perhaps adding in the Tortle method to exclude dex altogether? Having it use the higher number is actually kinda useful, but it may not be what is intended depending on what the subclass feature is supposed to be.
Me personally, that’s gonna depend on my intention for the ‘brew. I know with subclasses, Bonus+Bonus+Ignore works correctly, or at least it used to. (Like I said, that’s gotta be a bug down the line sooner or later, but maybe not.) If it’s no longer working as expected for subclasses, or if it has to be a feat and that’s the only way then heal, I would Set the Unarmored Dex AC bonus to 0 too. Unless the design was “AC = X/Dex+Y,” then I’ma use Set for X and Bonus for Y and rock socks.
(I shoulda realized it would work this way though, since that’s how the Set modifier works for other stuff is whichever one of the Set things is higher.)
Hello again folks, so I know barbarian and monk have their own forms of unarmored defense, but various bits of HB have forms of it for subclasses or feats. Is there a way to make a functioning form Beyond? I know there's the draconic bloodline sorcerer that makes it a 13 + Dex, but what I'm working with is a "Con + Cha". So is there a way to do that? Or would it just have to be manually changed on the character sheet? If so, that's fine.
Hm... I don't know if it will work and can't verify it at the moment, but you may be able to try it out before I can get to it: 2 separate features granting bonus unarmored AC for each stat, or just bonus AC in general and just not wear armor.
Sorry, 2 separate"bonuses" not "features". Can confirm that this works, though.
For a calculation of “10 + Con mod + Cha mod” it’ll actually take 3 Modifiers all combined:
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Ah. I see. But removing dex from the calculation is not as fun 😆
I believe I already know the answer, but i'll ask anyway: why set/bonus rather than bonus/bonus?
Why do you think?
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Thanks again, to both of you. Sorry I'm just now responding, had a killer headache yesterday. Also, for some reason it's still adding Dex rather than Cha but the rest works.
Never mind, it's working now! May have just needed a bit more time to update the changes.
To designate a "main" stat for the backend to use alongside the "bonus" once dex is removed?
But this where I am getting confused... the calculations shouldn't be any different when implemented as a feat rather than feature, right? The "ignore" modifier does not work on my test example (though the Tortle method does work on a different example). Or is it supposed to be set/set AND bonus/bonus?
You’re right and mistaken. You’re right that it’s to set a “main” stat. Technically it does work with Bonus & Bonus. But two bonuses with this hinky, janked system…?!? That’s gotta be a bug waiting to happen one of these days. However, if one were to use Set & Set that’s already a bug.
Yes, a Feat and a Feature should work the same in this regard, but I’ve never tried it with a feat. 🤷♂️
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Hm. May I request 3rd party verification? Only way I got the feat to work "properly" was bonus/bonus+ and set unarmored dex contribution to 0. It could absolutely be that I still managed to muck it up somehow, but in the event that I didn't...
It worked when I tested it. 🤷♂️
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I'd call that a critical hit.
Ok. So I did some more investigating. It technically works, but may not be the way it is intended to. The backend seems to use the higher of DEX or CHA (the "set" modifier) + the CON (the "bonus" modifier). I tend to prioritize DEX and dump CHA, so it took a while to see the trend as I was testing each character I have ready. The only time it fully worked was when CHA was greater than DEX, like your test character (does not work even if they are equal). Also did not even show up as an option for a barbarian, but still interacted with monk.
If that is the way it is supposed to go, then yea,
Yeah, that was the issue I had as well when I said it was still adding Dex rather than Cha, Dex had been higher.
So it does… hunh. In all this time that hasn’t come up until now AFAIK. It’s not every day I learn something new about that contraption. Thank you both!
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Yeah, unfortunately the Armor Class calculation coding options are useful but limited; you can especially see this with a Tortle Monk. DDB is still gonna be janky until we can specifically have a modifier Set - Armor Class or Set - Unarmored Armor Class MOD + MOD + fixed value (with no assumed DEX) so it's all in one and not using the Bonus modifiers for AC, since that applies to all applicable armor class calculations.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Absolutely. To be fair, it is not everyday that someone wants to substitute dex either. That said, would you suggest leaving it as is, or perhaps adding in the Tortle method to exclude dex altogether? Having it use the higher number is actually kinda useful, but it may not be what is intended depending on what the subclass feature is supposed to be.
Me personally, that’s gonna depend on my intention for the ‘brew. I know with subclasses, Bonus+Bonus+Ignore works correctly, or at least it used to. (Like I said, that’s gotta be a bug down the line sooner or later, but maybe not.) If it’s no longer working as expected for subclasses, or if it has to be a feat and that’s the only way then heal, I would Set the Unarmored Dex AC bonus to 0 too. Unless the design was “AC = X/Dex+Y,” then I’ma use Set for X and Bonus for Y and rock socks.
(I shoulda realized it would work this way though, since that’s how the Set modifier works for other stuff is whichever one of the Set things is higher.)
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