DnD 5e’s monsters have always looked down on poison, sashaying around with their resistances and immunities. No more! They shall learn to hold their breath in fear and shudder in terror at the deadly potency of poison!
The Poisoner subclass is my take on reintroducing poison damage and the poisoned condition to 5e in a way that’ll make a splash. Like all my homebrew, all the character sheet functions should work properly(please let me know if something doesn’t work or is missing). I appreciate any and all comments and/or advice! Thanks!
P.S. The level 17 copy is there so that when a level 17 Poisoner would see the level 17 feature and not the level 3 feature. It’s purely there for character sheet purposes on DnDBeyond, so feel free to ignore it.
This looks really interesting, and I think a rogue subclass is a good way to make poisons relevant in 5e. I also adore alliteration. :)
I might have approached Potent Poisons a little differently, maybe allowing your toxins to deal necrotic or acid damage instead of poison. But I think your way works too.
One thing I wasn't clear about was "Additionally, you can craft short lasting poisons incredibly quickly." in Pernicious Professional. Is this just referring to Tossing Toxins or is it supposed to affect the crafting time of poisons using the kit?
One other thing from my experience at high levels is that nearly everything at the highest tier has beastly CON saves. It might be interesting to offer the choice of the poison vulnerability thing or disadvantage on saves to resist for a particular batch of toxins.
The point about Potent Poisons is a good point. I think I focused a bit too much on the ability to make poison damage a possibility and ignored the potential of other damage types. This is definitely still a draft, so I'll be keeping this in mind for the next version. I tend to make too complex so I dumbed down my initial idea as much as possible, but perhaps this is a subclass that could use a little complexity.
Ah, that was meant to be part of Tossing Toxins, but I accidentally left it in there. I apologize.
You make a good point. I was trying to make this class relatively simple, but, along with my first point, I think I'll consider introducing different poison options you can choose. I believe that there are three good ways of going about this that I can think of:
Keeping it the way it is, simple and easy to play.
Introducing different poisons unique to the subclass, which might be a balance issue, but is definitely possible.
I kind of wish to keep the throwing vials to create a poison cloud aesthetic, but if this is the way to go, it might be better to have an ability to apply poison as a bonus action and rely on weapons to deliver the poison.
Going a different way entirely.
And, if I'm not being presumptuous, if I could ask a few questions:
How do you feel about Vital Venom? Is it too much healing? I was thinking of introducing an ability to cure status conditions, as well. Should it reset on a short rest instead of a long rest?
Should the Tossing Toxins feature, as it is supposed to be a main source of damage, be determined by Intelligence modifier per long rest? Would Intelligence modifier per short rest be better? Or maybe even something else?
Oh, I agree with simple. I think you could still keep it manageable if they can just add one property to their toxins each time they create them over a long rest. Two of those options could be for the toxins to deal necrotic or acid damage instead of poison. You'd only need maybe one more option there, and then at 17 you can introduce 2-3 more.
Although thinking about it, customizing the toxin feels pretty fun. You could introduce the option from the start, with one of the options being the poison cloud? Then introduce stronger options at later levels.
This would be a major rework of the subclass though, and not really necessary IMO unless you want to go that way.
One alternate way to do Vital Venom might be that you just roll SA damage once, and that determines the strength of the whole brew, which can then be split up between party members however you like as long as they spend a hit die. I think this feels a bit more balanced while still being really useful. I would still keep it once a day though - at the end of the day you are not a support class. I also wouldn't worry about status effects because they rarely matter if you're taking a short rest.
I think TT is fine based on INT. It's a nice option to have but you don't need to be using it all day long.
DnD 5e’s monsters have always looked down on poison, sashaying around with their resistances and immunities. No more! They shall learn to hold their breath in fear and shudder in terror at the deadly potency of poison!
The Poisoner subclass is my take on reintroducing poison damage and the poisoned condition to 5e in a way that’ll make a splash. Like all my homebrew, all the character sheet functions should work properly(please let me know if something doesn’t work or is missing). I appreciate any and all comments and/or advice! Thanks!
P.S. The level 17 copy is there so that when a level 17 Poisoner would see the level 17 feature and not the level 3 feature. It’s purely there for character sheet purposes on DnDBeyond, so feel free to ignore it.
LINK: https://www.dndbeyond.com/subclasses/1341232-poisoner
This looks really interesting, and I think a rogue subclass is a good way to make poisons relevant in 5e. I also adore alliteration. :)
I might have approached Potent Poisons a little differently, maybe allowing your toxins to deal necrotic or acid damage instead of poison. But I think your way works too.
One thing I wasn't clear about was "Additionally, you can craft short lasting poisons incredibly quickly." in Pernicious Professional. Is this just referring to Tossing Toxins or is it supposed to affect the crafting time of poisons using the kit?
One other thing from my experience at high levels is that nearly everything at the highest tier has beastly CON saves. It might be interesting to offer the choice of the poison vulnerability thing or disadvantage on saves to resist for a particular batch of toxins.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Thanks for the advice! To address your points:
And, if I'm not being presumptuous, if I could ask a few questions:
Thanks for your time!
Oh, I agree with simple. I think you could still keep it manageable if they can just add one property to their toxins each time they create them over a long rest. Two of those options could be for the toxins to deal necrotic or acid damage instead of poison. You'd only need maybe one more option there, and then at 17 you can introduce 2-3 more.
Although thinking about it, customizing the toxin feels pretty fun. You could introduce the option from the start, with one of the options being the poison cloud? Then introduce stronger options at later levels.
This would be a major rework of the subclass though, and not really necessary IMO unless you want to go that way.
One alternate way to do Vital Venom might be that you just roll SA damage once, and that determines the strength of the whole brew, which can then be split up between party members however you like as long as they spend a hit die. I think this feels a bit more balanced while still being really useful. I would still keep it once a day though - at the end of the day you are not a support class. I also wouldn't worry about status effects because they rarely matter if you're taking a short rest.
I think TT is fine based on INT. It's a nice option to have but you don't need to be using it all day long.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm