This is my system for skill proficiencies. It is a blending of 2e non-weapon proficiencies, and some of my own, with 5e rules. I've discussed why in this thread here. I know many people won't like it, which is fine, but I'm hoping someone out there does. I'm looking for any critiques, thoughts on loopholes or imbalances it may create, but only from those who are on board with the idea (if you don't like it, that's fine but no need to tell me :) ) I haven't put in description of the skills, but would be happy to elaborate for anyone interested.
Skill Proficiencies Strength Athletics:Running - Jumping - Climbing - Swimming - Lifting/Pushing/Pulling - Grappling - Unarmed Combat - Throwing Dexterity Acrobatics: Tightrope walking - Tumbling Sleight of Hand:Pickpocketing - Prestidigitation - Rope Use - Disarm Traps - Forgery - Juggling Stealth:Hide in Shadows - Move Silently Constitution Endurance Intelligence Arcana:Astrology/Omen Reading - Spellcraft - Supernatural Lore Investigation:Observation - Deduction History/Religion/Politics/Geography: Specify region or era. Nature:Animal Lore - Plant Lore - Weather Sense - Direction Sense/Navigation Trade Skill (specify) Language (specify) Reading/Writing (specify) Wisdom Animal Handling: Horse (or specify other mount) - Dog training - Falconry - Calm Wild Animal Insight: Read Body Language - Detect Lie - Lip Reading Medicine: Field medicine - Healing & Herbalism Perception: Keen sight - Keen hearing - Keen smell - Keen Touch - Blindsight Survival:Hunting/Fishing - Foraging - Tracking - Trapping - Shelter & Firebuilding Charisma Deception: Fast talk or bluff - Disguise - Ventiloquism/Mimicry Intimidation: Sinister Aspect - Furious Aspect - Weapons Display Performance: Music - Poetry - Dance - Acting/Storytelling Persuasion: Rhetoric/Logic/Philosophy - Etiquette/Diplomacy - Seduction/Charm - Sharp Wit - Begging
Rules for Skill Proficiencies -These proficiencies have been introduced to provide greater variety and customization for 5e characters. -In the 5e rules, each character is allowed to choose a certain number of general skills depending on class and background. These are the general skill groups underlined in the above chart. -In these revised rules, characters must choose instead specific skills from the general categories that are allowed by their class and background. -There are 4 specific skills which do not fall under the 5e general skills - Endurance, Trade Skill, Language, Reading/Writing. These skills are available to all classes and backgrounds, at the DM's discretion. -1st level characters choose the same number of specific skills as they would general skills. However, as characters advance in level they may learn new skills and/or improve on ones they already have. -1st level characters start with the same +2 proficiency bonus in any specific skill they choose. The skills they choose remain restricted by the general categories granted by class and background. -As levels are gained, characters earn proficiency points which they can allot to new skills or improving others. The proficiency bonus for each level after 1st represents how many proficiency points a character is awarded. Therefore, a character gets 2 proficiency points on attaining 2nd level. They would also get 2 points at 3rd level, 2 points at 4th level and then 3 points at 5th level and so on. -These points are used to learn new proficiencies (again limited by class and background) or improving the modifier for existing skills. -Any new skills learned, regardless of character level, start at +2 proficiency bonus. Proficiency points must be spent to improve that modifier. -A character cannot improve a modifier beyond one number higher than the proficiency bonus for their level. Therefore 1st-4th level characters can increase their modifiers to no more than +3. A +6 modifier is the upper limit, attainable at 13th level. This more rapid advancement makes up for the narrower focus of the different skills. - Looking ahead - characters must declare their intentions for spending the proficiency points they will gain at the next level. A character must be focused on learning or improving a skill before they can increase the modifier. They need sufficient time and the proper circumstances. The DM must decide if this learning is possible (you can't learn to swim if you're in the desert). DM will also decide the time frame necessary. To gain a new skill, a teacher who is already proficient in the skill, or adequate source material (i.e a book on the subject [and the ability to read!]) may be required at the DMs discretion. -Proficiency points not spent before moving on to the next level are lost.
I have written a detailed description of my homebrew skill rules, which you can see here. Again, I know many (or most) people will not like this, thinking it is too complicated, bogging the game down with details and so on. I happen to like detail, however. If you like the idea in principle, let me know what you think.
I like it. Really well thought out. I think if you have the right group of players this would be great. I think it starts to take 5e back down the path towards 3.5/PF in complexity but that doesn't bother me too much. As long as it doesn't slow down game play then I see no issue.
I've realized that you could replace a lot of these proficiencies with Feats. For example, I recently created the homebrew Contortionist Feat here. You could make a swimmer feat or a fortune teller feat or any other number of homebrews. But whether you call them feats or proficiencies, you're still introducing rules, and I think I'll stick with my system for now.
Just about to try 5e for the first time. My plan is to stick with official rules for the first brief campaign, but then once I have the hang of it I really want to try out this system! I haven't played since 2e and really liked the skill proficiency system there. I see this thread is a couple years old so I'm not sure if it's still active but I might have some questions about implementing this house system within 5e....
To give an update on how this homebrew rule set is working, well it's okay. The players like the specific skills for the extra customization it adds to characters and they like being able to continuously improve and learn new skill.. They have been fine with learning and using the system. That being said, if I were to start with a new group I have considered making changes to this rule set to make it less complex - but I haven't worked that out yet.
I've been playing Pathfinder for several years and just recently begun a D&D 5e campaign which my sister is DMing. While we love most of 5e (you don't have to roll to confirm crits!!!!), we found the skills lacking. Your version brings makes it more like D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder. We both miss that each time you level, you get more skills pints to apply to your characters. This allows more customization and character growth.
It fact, after our first session, I asked her if I could add a cooking skill to my character and give him a fun cooking feat which we designed together. She quickly agreed, feeling it fit my character's backstory that he had specialized in cooking.
I will be showing your version to my sister and see if she would like to add such a system into our campaign.
I like the idea of this alot, I find the current skills way to generalized and I love the customization of characters. Not sure if you originally decided against this on purpose but it would be neat if intelligence played a role on how many skill points you were allowed or max achievable...something. I find alot of people feel the intelligence stat is left behind a bit as far as importance and this would make it more useful.
This is my system for skill proficiencies. It is a blending of 2e non-weapon proficiencies, and some of my own, with 5e rules. I've discussed why in this thread here. I know many people won't like it, which is fine, but I'm hoping someone out there does. I'm looking for any critiques, thoughts on loopholes or imbalances it may create, but only from those who are on board with the idea (if you don't like it, that's fine but no need to tell me :) ) I haven't put in description of the skills, but would be happy to elaborate for anyone interested.
Rules for Skill Proficiencies -These proficiencies have been introduced to provide greater variety and customization for 5e characters. -In the 5e rules, each character is allowed to choose a certain number of general skills depending on class and background. These are the general skill groups underlined in the above chart. -In these revised rules, characters must choose instead specific skills from the general categories that are allowed by their class and background. -There are 4 specific skills which do not fall under the 5e general skills - Endurance, Trade Skill, Language, Reading/Writing. These skills are available to all classes and backgrounds, at the DM's discretion. -1st level characters choose the same number of specific skills as they would general skills. However, as characters advance in level they may learn new skills and/or improve on ones they already have. -1st level characters start with the same +2 proficiency bonus in any specific skill they choose. The skills they choose remain restricted by the general categories granted by class and background. -As levels are gained, characters earn proficiency points which they can allot to new skills or improving others. The proficiency bonus for each level after 1st represents how many proficiency points a character is awarded. Therefore, a character gets 2 proficiency points on attaining 2nd level. They would also get 2 points at 3rd level, 2 points at 4th level and then 3 points at 5th level and so on. -These points are used to learn new proficiencies (again limited by class and background) or improving the modifier for existing skills. -Any new skills learned, regardless of character level, start at +2 proficiency bonus. Proficiency points must be spent to improve that modifier. -A character cannot improve a modifier beyond one number higher than the proficiency bonus for their level. Therefore 1st-4th level characters can increase their modifiers to no more than +3. A +6 modifier is the upper limit, attainable at 13th level. This more rapid advancement makes up for the narrower focus of the different skills. - Looking ahead - characters must declare their intentions for spending the proficiency points they will gain at the next level. A character must be focused on learning or improving a skill before they can increase the modifier. They need sufficient time and the proper circumstances. The DM must decide if this learning is possible (you can't learn to swim if you're in the desert). DM will also decide the time frame necessary. To gain a new skill, a teacher who is already proficient in the skill, or adequate source material (i.e a book on the subject [and the ability to read!]) may be required at the DMs discretion. -Proficiency points not spent before moving on to the next level are lost.
I happen to like detail, however. If you like the idea in principle, let me know what you think.
I cast "Raise Thread" and revitalize this necrothread...
Running my first 5e campaign after a 10-year 4e game. (not relevant, really) I do keep running into "missing" skills from previous editions, though. "Make a Streetwise check... oh, wait, that doesn't exist..." I ran into someone else's house rules for what they called "Field Expertise". It is a lot like these rules, but you keep the general skills and pick a specific skill you are "double-good" at. (And if that's too powerful, a companion sub-skill you aren't proficient at.) So you might be proficient with Nature, for example, and great at Weather Sense, but suck at Plant Lore.
Learning new Field Expertises took Downtime (2-4 months), money, and skill checks from student and teacher. It was a bit complicated. In the end, my players decided not to go with it and just use the generalized skill sets. But they keep asking if they can learn something new, so I keep looking for ways to learn pieces of skills.
What's the point of this ramble? I think I might yoink your "specific skills" list, and use the "Field Expertise" downtime rules, and combine the two. Your list seems better organized and useful - the Field Expertise list had thing a little too specialized, a little too easy to abuse. Easy for someone to sack "Aerobatics" for expertise in "Tumbling" for example!
I would love to hear more about your experience with the system over another 6 months of playtime!
It looks interesting, although Religion seems undervalued. It should have a spellcraft equilent for divine casters.
I added Religious Heraldry, Undead Lore, Divine Spellcraft, Celestial Lore, Fiendish Lore, and Zeal/Inspiration
I'm stuck, though, implementing this, with a thought from AngryGM -- 5e isn't a skill-based system. It is ability-based; skills add bonuses. so maybe we're trying to hack 5e back to previous skill editions instead of embracing ability based -- for example, just use INT for "lore" style needs, right? add Religion if it seems appropriate.
I think I'm going to end up keeping the 5e system as "core", but allow PCs to get "specialist" training in these subskills, at a cost of 15ish weeks and 6-10gp a day (hiring a specialist trainer). So Grunil the marine might specialize in Swimming or Climbing (from Athletics), while Balgrun the dwarven berserker might specialize Grappling -- but both have proficiency in Athletics.
If a character doesn't have a skill, getting a subskill is harder. And once the character has devleoped any 3 subskills, they will "upgrade" to proficiency in the main skill.
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Hey everyone,
This is my system for skill proficiencies. It is a blending of 2e non-weapon proficiencies, and some of my own, with 5e rules. I've discussed why in this thread here. I know many people won't like it, which is fine, but I'm hoping someone out there does. I'm looking for any critiques, thoughts on loopholes or imbalances it may create, but only from those who are on board with the idea (if you don't like it, that's fine but no need to tell me :) ) I haven't put in description of the skills, but would be happy to elaborate for anyone interested.
Skill Proficiencies
Strength
Athletics: Running - Jumping - Climbing - Swimming - Lifting/Pushing/Pulling - Grappling - Unarmed Combat - Throwing
Dexterity
Acrobatics: Tightrope walking - Tumbling
Sleight of Hand: Pickpocketing - Prestidigitation - Rope Use - Disarm Traps - Forgery - Juggling
Stealth: Hide in Shadows - Move Silently
Constitution
Endurance
Intelligence
Arcana: Astrology/Omen Reading - Spellcraft - Supernatural Lore
Investigation: Observation - Deduction
History/Religion/Politics/Geography: Specify region or era.
Nature: Animal Lore - Plant Lore - Weather Sense - Direction Sense/Navigation
Trade Skill (specify)
Language (specify)
Reading/Writing (specify)
Wisdom
Animal Handling: Horse (or specify other mount) - Dog training - Falconry - Calm Wild Animal
Insight: Read Body Language - Detect Lie - Lip Reading
Medicine: Field medicine - Healing & Herbalism
Perception: Keen sight - Keen hearing - Keen smell - Keen Touch - Blindsight
Survival:Hunting/Fishing - Foraging - Tracking - Trapping - Shelter & Firebuilding
Charisma
Deception: Fast talk or bluff - Disguise - Ventiloquism/Mimicry
Intimidation: Sinister Aspect - Furious Aspect - Weapons Display
Performance: Music - Poetry - Dance - Acting/Storytelling
Persuasion: Rhetoric/Logic/Philosophy - Etiquette/Diplomacy - Seduction/Charm - Sharp Wit - Begging
Rules for Skill Proficiencies
-These proficiencies have been introduced to provide greater variety and customization for 5e characters.
-In the 5e rules, each character is allowed to choose a certain number of general skills depending on class and background. These are the general skill groups underlined in the above chart.
-In these revised rules, characters must choose instead specific skills from the general categories that are allowed by their class and background.
-There are 4 specific skills which do not fall under the 5e general skills - Endurance, Trade Skill, Language, Reading/Writing. These skills are available to all classes and backgrounds, at the DM's discretion.
-1st level characters choose the same number of specific skills as they would general skills. However, as characters advance in level they may learn new skills and/or improve on ones they already have.
-1st level characters start with the same +2 proficiency bonus in any specific skill they choose. The skills they choose remain restricted by the general categories granted by class and background.
-As levels are gained, characters earn proficiency points which they can allot to new skills or improving others. The proficiency bonus for each level after 1st represents how many proficiency points a character is awarded. Therefore, a character gets 2 proficiency points on attaining 2nd level. They would also get 2 points at 3rd level, 2 points at 4th level and then 3 points at 5th level and so on.
-These points are used to learn new proficiencies (again limited by class and background) or improving the modifier for existing skills.
-Any new skills learned, regardless of character level, start at +2 proficiency bonus. Proficiency points must be spent to improve that modifier.
-A character cannot improve a modifier beyond one number higher than the proficiency bonus for their level. Therefore 1st-4th level characters can increase their modifiers to no more than +3. A +6 modifier is the upper limit, attainable at 13th level. This more rapid advancement makes up for the narrower focus of the different skills.
- Looking ahead - characters must declare their intentions for spending the proficiency points they will gain at the next level. A character must be focused on learning or improving a skill before they can increase the modifier. They need sufficient time and the proper circumstances. The DM must decide if this learning is possible (you can't learn to swim if you're in the desert). DM will also decide the time frame necessary. To gain a new skill, a teacher who is already proficient in the skill, or adequate source material (i.e a book on the subject [and the ability to read!]) may be required at the DMs discretion.
-Proficiency points not spent before moving on to the next level are lost.
Definitely using this in my campaign, thanks for linking me in my thread.
"She cut off her adulterous husbands head while he slept... then she decapitated him."
Glad you like it. I'm sure you can adapt it however you want, but let me know if you want me to elaborate on anything.
I have written a detailed description of my homebrew skill rules, which you can see here. Again, I know many (or most) people will not like this, thinking it is too complicated, bogging the game down with details and so on. I happen to like detail, however. If you like the idea in principle, let me know what you think.
I like it. Really well thought out. I think if you have the right group of players this would be great. I think it starts to take 5e back down the path towards 3.5/PF in complexity but that doesn't bother me too much. As long as it doesn't slow down game play then I see no issue.
As to balance I think it looks fine. Well done.
Thanks.
I've realized that you could replace a lot of these proficiencies with Feats. For example, I recently created the homebrew Contortionist Feat here. You could make a swimmer feat or a fortune teller feat or any other number of homebrews. But whether you call them feats or proficiencies, you're still introducing rules, and I think I'll stick with my system for now.
I like this system a lot. A whole lot. Combined with Feats, it seems amazing.
Just about to try 5e for the first time. My plan is to stick with official rules for the first brief campaign, but then once I have the hang of it I really want to try out this system! I haven't played since 2e and really liked the skill proficiency system there. I see this thread is a couple years old so I'm not sure if it's still active but I might have some questions about implementing this house system within 5e....
Great stuff! Thanks for posting.
To give an update on how this homebrew rule set is working, well it's okay. The players like the specific skills for the extra customization it adds to characters and they like being able to continuously improve and learn new skill.. They have been fine with learning and using the system. That being said, if I were to start with a new group I have considered making changes to this rule set to make it less complex - but I haven't worked that out yet.
If you do, keep us posted.
I've been playing Pathfinder for several years and just recently begun a D&D 5e campaign which my sister is DMing. While we love most of 5e (you don't have to roll to confirm crits!!!!), we found the skills lacking. Your version brings makes it more like D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder. We both miss that each time you level, you get more skills pints to apply to your characters. This allows more customization and character growth.
It fact, after our first session, I asked her if I could add a cooking skill to my character and give him a fun cooking feat which we designed together. She quickly agreed, feeling it fit my character's backstory that he had specialized in cooking.
I will be showing your version to my sister and see if she would like to add such a system into our campaign.
I like the idea of this alot, I find the current skills way to generalized and I love the customization of characters. Not sure if you originally decided against this on purpose but it would be neat if intelligence played a role on how many skill points you were allowed or max achievable...something. I find alot of people feel the intelligence stat is left behind a bit as far as importance and this would make it more useful.
I agree - and my expanded rules allow for more proficiency points (plus or minus) depending on your intelligence
https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HJsWMvBUz
the extended (and I think complete) version
I happen to like detail, however. If you like the idea in principle, let me know what you think.
I cast "Raise Thread" and revitalize this necrothread...
Running my first 5e campaign after a 10-year 4e game. (not relevant, really) I do keep running into "missing" skills from previous editions, though. "Make a Streetwise check... oh, wait, that doesn't exist..." I ran into someone else's house rules for what they called "Field Expertise". It is a lot like these rules, but you keep the general skills and pick a specific skill you are "double-good" at. (And if that's too powerful, a companion sub-skill you aren't proficient at.) So you might be proficient with Nature, for example, and great at Weather Sense, but suck at Plant Lore.
Learning new Field Expertises took Downtime (2-4 months), money, and skill checks from student and teacher. It was a bit complicated. In the end, my players decided not to go with it and just use the generalized skill sets. But they keep asking if they can learn something new, so I keep looking for ways to learn pieces of skills.
What's the point of this ramble? I think I might yoink your "specific skills" list, and use the "Field Expertise" downtime rules, and combine the two. Your list seems better organized and useful - the Field Expertise list had thing a little too specialized, a little too easy to abuse. Easy for someone to sack "Aerobatics" for expertise in "Tumbling" for example!
I would love to hear more about your experience with the system over another 6 months of playtime!
As an older player who started back in 2e I have to say, this is cool. My players wouldn’t appreciate the added complexity, but I would.
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It looks interesting, although Religion seems undervalued. It should have a spellcraft equilent for divine casters.
I added Religious Heraldry, Undead Lore, Divine Spellcraft, Celestial Lore, Fiendish Lore, and Zeal/Inspiration
I'm stuck, though, implementing this, with a thought from AngryGM -- 5e isn't a skill-based system. It is ability-based; skills add bonuses. so maybe we're trying to hack 5e back to previous skill editions instead of embracing ability based -- for example, just use INT for "lore" style needs, right? add Religion if it seems appropriate.
I think I'm going to end up keeping the 5e system as "core", but allow PCs to get "specialist" training in these subskills, at a cost of 15ish weeks and 6-10gp a day (hiring a specialist trainer). So Grunil the marine might specialize in Swimming or Climbing (from Athletics), while Balgrun the dwarven berserker might specialize Grappling -- but both have proficiency in Athletics.
If a character doesn't have a skill, getting a subskill is harder. And once the character has devleoped any 3 subskills, they will "upgrade" to proficiency in the main skill.