Okay, when you said you didn’t want to make it based on the Alchemist (for legitimate reasons I’ll grant you) I decided to do one myself called the “Munitionist.” This is the version I came up with. It is objective less powerful than you Fletcher, and I think it is still OP and in need of some nerfing.
The Munitionist Artificer:
The Munitionist is a master of ammunition, able to create powerful ammo the way an Alchemist makes potions.
Starting at 3rd level, you always have certain spells prepared after you reach particular levels in this class, as shown in the Munitionist Spells table. These spells count as artificer spells for you, but they don’t count against the number of artificer spells you prepare.
At 3rd level, you know how to turn a crystal or wand into a munitionist’s scop, a conduit for your destructive spells, as well as an aid to your ranged attacks. When you finish a long rest, you can use tinker’s tools to modify a crystal or wand, and thereby turn it into your munitionist’s scope. The modifications disappear from the object if you later create a different munitionist’s scope. The moifications otherwise last indefinitely.
You can use your munitionist’s scope as a spellcasting focus for your artificer spells. As an action, you can attach your munitionist’s scope to any bow, crossbow, or firearm you are wielding. You gain a +2 bonus to ranged attacks made with that weapon as long as your munitionist’s scope is attached. As an action, you can later detach your munitionist’s scope.
Experimental Ammunition
Beginning at 3rd level, whenever you finish a long rest, you can magically produce a piece of experimental ammunition out of a piece of nonmagical ammunition you touch. Roll on the Experimental Ammunition table for the ammunition’s effect, which is triggered when someone uses the ammunition.
Creating experimental ammunition requires you to have tinker’s tools on your person, and any ammunition you create with this feature lasts until it is used or until the end of your next long rest.
When you use this feature after a long rest to create experimental ammunition, for each piece you can create, you may instead choose to maintain a piece of experimental ammunition you have made previously using this feature.
When you reach certain levels in this class, you can make more ammunition at the end of a long rest: three at 6th level four at 10th level, five at 14th level, and six at 18th level. Roll for the effect of each piece of ammunition separately, and each piece must be made from a different piece of nonmagical ammunition.
You can create additional experimental ammunition by expending a spell slot of 1st level or higher for each one. When you do so, you use your action to create the ammunition uaing a piece of nonmagical ammunition you touch, and you choose the ammunition’s effect from the Experimental Ammunition table.
Experimental Ammunition
d6
Effect
1
Flechette. When this piece of ammunition is used, instead of making an attack roll as normal, instead each creature in a 15 ft. cone must make a Dexterity saving throw against your artificer spell save DC. On a failed save they take 2d6 magical piercing damage, or half as much on a successful save.
2
Concussive. When this piece of ammunition is used, instead of making an attack roll as normal, instead choose a point within the weapon’s range. Each creature within 10 ft. must succede at a Constitution saving throw against your artificer spell save DC or be stunned until the end of the attacker’s next turn.
3
Elemental Ammunition. When you create this piece of ammunition, choose one of the following: Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, Poison, or Thunder damage. On a hit, the target takes an additional 1d8 damage of the chosen type from this ammunition.
4
Siege Ammunition. This ammunition deals double damage to objects and structures.
5
Tranquilizer. Acreature hit by this ammunition takes no damage from it. Instead, the creature must succeed on a Constitution saving throw against your artificer spell save DC or gains 3 levels of temporary exhaustion for a number of rounds equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum 1). If the target would die from this exhaustion, it instead falls unconscious for the duration of this effect.
6
Stimulant. A creature hit by this ammunition dones not take damage from it, it instead gains a number of Temporary HP equal to the total damage. In addition, the target must use its reaction if available to make a single attack against a target of its choice that it can see within range.
Extra Attack
Starting at 5th level, you can attack twice, rather than once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
Advanced Munitionist’s Scope
Starting at 9th level, you deal additional damage whenever you hit a creature with a ranged attack made with a weapon attached to your munitionist’s scope. In addition, you can now use your scope for additional functions:
Whenever you a hit a creature with a ranged-weapon attack made with the weapon you have attached to your munitionist’s scope, you deal additional damage equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of 1).
You can cast magic missile as a 2nd-level spell, or misty step without expending a spell slot and without preparing the spell, provided you use your munitionist’s scope as the spellcasting focus. You can do so a combined number of times equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once), and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.
Munitions Expert
By 15th level, you have learned to make other arcane uses for your Munitionist’s Scope. You can cast far step and sunbeam without expending a spell slot, without preparing the spell, and without material components, provided you use your Munitionist’s Scope as the spellcasting focus. Once you cast either spell with this feature, you can’t cast that spell with it again until you finish a long rest.
How is this less powerful than my Fletcher? you are giving them free casts of some potent and powerful spells, letting them attack more often, and several of your experimental ammo do extra damage.
Further, you change the ammo into experimental elixir 2: crossbow boogaloo. One of the reasons I loathe this feature is the randomness, and the expending of increasingly more precious resources for no increased bonus. this is why the number of ammo pieces
Further, this is less a munitionist subclass and more a sniper. Frankly, without the experimental Ammo feature, I'd say this is a cool specialty.
How is this less powerful than my Fletcher? you are giving them free casts of some potent and powerful spells, letting them attack more often, and several of your experimental ammo do extra damage.
Further, you change the ammo into experimental elixir 2: crossbow boogaloo. One of the reasons I loathe this feature is the randomness, and the expending of increasingly more precious resources for no increased bonus. this is why the number of ammo pieces
Further, this is less a munitionist subclass and more a sniper. Frankly, without the experimental Ammo feature, I'd say this is a cool specialty.
They don’t have “free access” to potent spells. I straight up made a copy of the Alchemist and simply changed a few things. The Alchemists 9th and 15th level abilities are practically identical except the spells have changed. I omitted the 5th level ability and simply replaced it with Extra Attack (just like the Battle Smith Artificer has) and the only type of Experimental Ammo that deals extra damage is the Elemental Ammunition. Flechette ammo is a nerfed Burning Hands. Siege Ammo only affects objects and structures. The rest all replace the damage with a different effect.
Everything you hate about Experimental Ammunition (the randomness, the limited ammunition made, and “the expending of increasingly more precious resources for no increased bonus” are exactly what balances the ability.)
While yes, they are a “sniper,” why the heck should someone who specializes in making ammo not be good at using it themselves?!?
What makes your Fletcher more powerful? Put them in a party with an Arcane Archer and a Battle Master who uses your fletchers Repeating Shot infused heavy crossbow. You’ll find out soon enough that the ability to make scores of Magic ammo to hand out like Halloween candy to the party every day would soon make combat practically unfun.
You can only get off one of my custom ammo per action though. Repeating shot removes the loading property by loading itself with ammo that it produces itself. So you are only going to get off ONE of your custom ammo per action.
My fletcher adds NO extra damage to it's shots, unlike Arcane Archer and Battle Master.
The Randomness I abhor because it makes no sense thematically "I'm a master craftsman who can't control what I craft". and how is it balanced to expend your highest level spell slot for the same result as if you had expended your lowest level spell slot?
You can only get off one of my custom ammo per action though. Repeating shot removes the loading property by loading itself with ammo that it produces itself. So you are only going to get off ONE of your custom ammo per action.
Let’s asses this:
Repeating Shot. This magic weapon grants a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with it when it’s used to make a ranged attack, and it ignores the loading property if it has it.
If you load no ammunition in the weapon, it produces its own, automatically creating one piece of magic ammunition when you make a ranged attack with it. The ammunition created by the weapon vanishes the instant after it hits or misses a target.
Your assumption is that the Repeating Shot infusion ignore the loading property because it loads the ammo that it produces. If those two statements were part of the same sentence I would definitely agree with you. If they were in adjacent sentences within the same paragraph I would agree with you. Those two statements are in complete separate paragraphs. RAW, a level 20 fighter could absolutely load 4 individual pieces of magic ammo into their crossbow and fire all four in the same action.
Okay, so they can get four of my custom arrow off in one turn. Meaning they dealt the same amount of damage as a fighter normally would have, maybe more if he is using the toxic ammo. I keep repeating, the custom ammo I use does not do any extra damage. That's why they get access to so much of it.
Okay, so they can get four of my custom arrow off in one turn. Meaning they dealt the same amount of damage as a fighter normally would have, maybe more if he is using the toxic ammo. I keep repeating, the custom ammo I use does not do any extra damage. That's why they get access to so much of it.
Okay, now look at the ways your feature could stack with the Arcane Archer’s abilities or the Battle Master’s maneuvers.
For example, at 7th level the Arcane Archer gets the following ability:
Curving Shot
At 7th level, you learn how to direct an errant arrow toward a new target. When you make an attack roll with a magic arrow and miss, you can use a bonus action to reroll the attack roll against a different target within 60 feet of the original target.
The way you have set up your subclass a 20th level Fletcher could make 1 bundle of 5 arrows every morning, and if they spend all of their spell slots throughout the day they could make 4 bundles from their 1st-level slots, 6 bundles from the 2nd-level slots, 9 bundles from the 3rd-level slots, 12 from the 4th-level, and 10 from the 5th level ones. That adds up to 42 bundles per day. That adds up to 210 magic arrows per day.
Your Gravity Arrows alone could break the game since fall damage caps at 20d6 damage on top of the normal damage from the weapon. Is a gravity arrow cool? Heck yeah it is! Are 210 gravity arrows per day cool...?
You have a point on the gravity Arrow, it was never intended for the creature to take falling damage, so I corrected the wording on that.
And with the exception of the speed reduction from the gravity ammo and the Disadvantage from the burning ammo, all of the ammo have saves.
and a 20th level AA fighter is probably going to have a magic bow, so all of it's attacks are magical anyway. All this guarantees is that the damage type is changed.
You’re missing the point, 210/day!!! For this to be balanced you either need to drop those bundles down to individual arrows that do a little more, or you need to make them do so little that it’s not even worth it.
Also, while some people do enjoy playing support characters that simply make everyone else in the party stronger, the vast majority of players still want their own characters to feel epic too.
If you have them make either a small amount (6-20 arrows MAX) of super special ammo/day, or a large amount (210?!?) of super boring ammo, and give them some stuff that lets them be badasses in their own right, then you got a subclass.
Burning Ammo: A creature struck with one of these has disadvantage on attack rolls until they use a bonus action to remove the ammo. The damage dealt by this piece of ammunition is fire damage.
This is objectively stronger than Vicious Mockery except for the damage type.
Gravity ammo: A creature struck by this arrow has it’s movement speed halved. Flying creatures must make a strength saving throw against your artificer spell save DC, or be forced to land. The ammunition can be pulled out, and when they get more than 10ft from it, their speed returns to normal. Damage dealt by this is Bludgeoning Damage
Definitely more balanced, but the other effects that you deleted were IMHO the more interesting part.
Toxic ammo: A creature struck by this arrow must make a constitution saving throw versus your artificer spell save DC. On a fail, they loose poison damage resistance, and poison damage immunity they have becomes resistance. If they did not have resistance or immunity to poison damage, they gain vulnerability to poison damage. They can make a constitution save at the end of each turn to shrug off the condition. If they have taken poison damage since the last time they made the save, they make the save with disadvantage. Damage dealt by this ammunition (After the save is performed) is poison.
With the ability to make 210 of these/day, the party can just keep peppering even a green dragon to death with these. Arrow 1: Immunity drops to resistance; Arrow 2: resistance drops to neutral; Arrow 3: Neutral drops to Vulnerability; Arrow 4: OUCH!!! They was the fighter’s turn. With 210/day, in a party of 5 characters every character can have 42 of those bad boys!
Corrosive ammo: A target struck by this arrow must make a Dexterity saving throw against your artificer spell save DC. If they fail, their AC is reduced by 2 until the end of the attacker's next turn. Damage dealt by this ammo is Acid.
An AC reduction of -2 is the same as a +2 for everyone else’s Attack rolls! One 20th level Fighter firing 4 of these per turn will snowball very quickly. Since every character can have 40 of these/day....
Grapple ammo: if A target struck with this ammo, the attacker can make a grapple check from a distance. if the grapple check is successful, part of that grapple check can be to move the target up to 10ft closer to the attacker. This lasts until the target defeats the grapple check, or the target uses a bonus action to pull out the ammo. Damage from this ammo is Force Damage.
This is almost as strong stronger than a Roper, because that fighter could shoot the same creature 4 times/Action at the same creature, and you can make 210/day.
Sick Ammo: When creature is struck with this Ammo, it must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save the target feels slightly dizzy and distracted. It has disadvantage on the next saving throw it is forced to make. Damage from this ammo is necrotic.
Combine this one with your Toxic Arrow.... 😳 Or give them to a Battle Master to combo with their Maneuvers.... And you can hand these out like candy because you can make 210/day!!! This is stronger than [Tooltip Not Found].
Woozy Ammo: When a creature is struck with this ammo, it must make an intelligence saving throw. If failed, the creature has disadvantage on all ability checks until the end of the attacker's next turn. This also results in a -5 to it’s passive abilities. Damage from this ammo is Psychic.
Either one of these effects would be balanced, but both.... Put three of these in one creature and they wouldn’t even be able to find their own ass with two hands and a map.... And you can make 210/day.
Okay, when you said you didn’t want to make it based on the Alchemist (for legitimate reasons I’ll grant you) I decided to do one myself called the “Munitionist.” This is the version I came up with. It is objective less powerful than you Fletcher, and I think it is still OP and in need of some nerfing.
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How is this less powerful than my Fletcher? you are giving them free casts of some potent and powerful spells, letting them attack more often, and several of your experimental ammo do extra damage.
Further, you change the ammo into experimental elixir 2: crossbow boogaloo. One of the reasons I loathe this feature is the randomness, and the expending of increasingly more precious resources for no increased bonus. this is why the number of ammo pieces
Further, this is less a munitionist subclass and more a sniper. Frankly, without the experimental Ammo feature, I'd say this is a cool specialty.
They don’t have “free access” to potent spells. I straight up made a copy of the Alchemist and simply changed a few things. The Alchemists 9th and 15th level abilities are practically identical except the spells have changed. I omitted the 5th level ability and simply replaced it with Extra Attack (just like the Battle Smith Artificer has) and the only type of Experimental Ammo that deals extra damage is the Elemental Ammunition. Flechette ammo is a nerfed Burning Hands. Siege Ammo only affects objects and structures. The rest all replace the damage with a different effect.
Everything you hate about Experimental Ammunition (the randomness, the limited ammunition made, and “the expending of increasingly more precious resources for no increased bonus” are exactly what balances the ability.)
While yes, they are a “sniper,” why the heck should someone who specializes in making ammo not be good at using it themselves?!?
What makes your Fletcher more powerful? Put them in a party with an Arcane Archer and a Battle Master who uses your fletchers Repeating Shot infused heavy crossbow. You’ll find out soon enough that the ability to make scores of Magic ammo to hand out like Halloween candy to the party every day would soon make combat practically unfun.
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You can only get off one of my custom ammo per action though. Repeating shot removes the loading property by loading itself with ammo that it produces itself. So you are only going to get off ONE of your custom ammo per action.
My fletcher adds NO extra damage to it's shots, unlike Arcane Archer and Battle Master.
The Randomness I abhor because it makes no sense thematically "I'm a master craftsman who can't control what I craft". and how is it balanced to expend your highest level spell slot for the same result as if you had expended your lowest level spell slot?
Let’s asses this:
Your assumption is that the Repeating Shot infusion ignore the loading property because it loads the ammo that it produces. If those two statements were part of the same sentence I would definitely agree with you. If they were in adjacent sentences within the same paragraph I would agree with you. Those two statements are in complete separate paragraphs. RAW, a level 20 fighter could absolutely load 4 individual pieces of magic ammo into their crossbow and fire all four in the same action.
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Okay, so they can get four of my custom arrow off in one turn. Meaning they dealt the same amount of damage as a fighter normally would have, maybe more if he is using the toxic ammo. I keep repeating, the custom ammo I use does not do any extra damage. That's why they get access to so much of it.
Okay, now look at the ways your feature could stack with the Arcane Archer’s abilities or the Battle Master’s maneuvers.
For example, at 7th level the Arcane Archer gets the following ability:
The way you have set up your subclass a 20th level Fletcher could make 1 bundle of 5 arrows every morning, and if they spend all of their spell slots throughout the day they could make 4 bundles from their 1st-level slots, 6 bundles from the 2nd-level slots, 9 bundles from the 3rd-level slots, 12 from the 4th-level, and 10 from the 5th level ones. That adds up to 42 bundles per day. That adds up to 210 magic arrows per day.
Your Gravity Arrows alone could break the game since fall damage caps at 20d6 damage on top of the normal damage from the weapon. Is a gravity arrow cool? Heck yeah it is! Are 210 gravity arrows per day cool...?
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You have a point on the gravity Arrow, it was never intended for the creature to take falling damage, so I corrected the wording on that.
And with the exception of the speed reduction from the gravity ammo and the Disadvantage from the burning ammo, all of the ammo have saves.
and a 20th level AA fighter is probably going to have a magic bow, so all of it's attacks are magical anyway. All this guarantees is that the damage type is changed.
Dude (gender neutral usage),
You’re missing the point, 210/day!!! For this to be balanced you either need to drop those bundles down to individual arrows that do a little more, or you need to make them do so little that it’s not even worth it.
Also, while some people do enjoy playing support characters that simply make everyone else in the party stronger, the vast majority of players still want their own characters to feel epic too.
If you have them make either a small amount (6-20 arrows MAX) of super special ammo/day, or a large amount (210?!?) of super boring ammo, and give them some stuff that lets them be badasses in their own right, then you got a subclass.
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This is objectively stronger than Vicious Mockery except for the damage type.
Definitely more balanced, but the other effects that you deleted were IMHO the more interesting part.
With the ability to make 210 of these/day, the party can just keep peppering even a green dragon to death with these. Arrow 1: Immunity drops to resistance; Arrow 2: resistance drops to neutral; Arrow 3: Neutral drops to Vulnerability; Arrow 4: OUCH!!! They was the fighter’s turn. With 210/day, in a party of 5 characters every character can have 42 of those bad boys!
An AC reduction of -2 is the same as a +2 for everyone else’s Attack rolls! One 20th level Fighter firing 4 of these per turn will snowball very quickly. Since every character can have 40 of these/day....
This is
almost as strongstronger than a Roper, because that fighter could shoot the same creature 4 times/Action at the same creature, and you can make 210/day.Combine this one with your Toxic Arrow.... 😳 Or give them to a Battle Master to combo with their Maneuvers.... And you can hand these out like candy because you can make 210/day!!! This is stronger than [Tooltip Not Found].
Either one of these effects would be balanced, but both.... Put three of these in one creature and they wouldn’t even be able to find their own ass with two hands and a map.... And you can make 210/day.
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