Private
If Balgrim is MIA, what should we do going forward? - Single Choice
Shall we seek a 6th party member? - Single Choice
Yes, I do think the badger has proficiency in biting. Humans are different than animals. We're born with... nothing, really. We don't drop out of the womb, pick up a spear and run to hunt. It takes us years before we're even independant. Though it's also true for many animals, many other can even run less than an hour after birth. Take a zebra for example. 15 minutes after birth, the foal can already stand on their own. 15 minutes after birth, we humans cry, at best.
Similarly, humans aren't proficient with biting because most of us don't fight by biting. It's really ineffective considering our teeth and the fact that our precious brain lies that close to our teeth. It's also that way for animals, but our brain-to-body ratio is the greatest, after all. So humans will use this heavy thing to pick up a rock and throw it on their predators/prey. Badgers can't. Badgers bite. Do you know what a badger's bite force is? 109 BFQ for the European Badger. Same as a Grey Wolf (though, it's important to mention that this isn't PSI and is dependant on body mass as well). I tried to compare it to humans but couldn't find PSI measures for badgers or BFQ measures for humans. Anyway, it is proficient with its bite because that's how it hunts. It didn't train in a military to bite, rather it lived all its life relying on that to survive.
Also, why can't the Kobols be proficient with a dagger? A Kobold tribe has hunters and defenders, it makes sense they'd learn to use a knife in combat. There's a reason why it's called a simple weapon.
Varielky
Here's the thing though: having proficiency in say, medicine or history is a FAR cry from just knowing how to close your jaws when a prey item is within range, don't you think? Or knowing the finer points of sword fighting is different than using gross motor movements. Having proficiency means you have STUDIED. The reason why every character doesn't just automatically have proficiency in EVERY skill is BECAUSE it DOES require formal training. It is a REQUIREMENT, otherwise by that logic, there should be rules for learning new skill proficiencies outside of leveling up by teaching yourself, but there aren't any. The only reason why the characters in this campaign get to learn skills now is because they're not finished maturing. Once level 1 however, you won't be able to learn new skills as you did in the prologue.
Also, in regards to armour, again, studded leather is listed as being 13 pounds. My friggin CATS weigh more than that. 13 pounds distributed over your entire body won't slow ANYONE down in any appreciable way unless they're frail 80 year olds, especially considering that most combat in D&D is resolved in about 6 turns, or a single minute. The characters you play are not weekend warriors, they are ADVENTURERS, and if this is in regards to monks being able to wear light armours, again, the idea of an unarmoured monk in light robes forsaking armour because it's 'too heavy' is a fallacy created by pop culture. Historically, warrior monks would wear armour like any other military force. They should at least be able to wear leather armour without any appreciable penalties.
As far as HP is concerned, there is a glaring issue that I can't ignore when it comes to the shortcomings of the HP system as it stands; at 1 HP, your character suffers no penalties to do ANYTHING. The rulebook describes the upper half of your HP as being superficial damage, while the last half represents more serious injuries... but they still don't suffer any penalties. That means that the hammering blow you just took from a war axe that put you down to 1 HP and crumpled you does nothing to stop you from returning fire with full strength and even manage to cut down your enemy in a single stroke, but then you got hit in the head with a rock thrown by a dinky kobold the size of a 10 year old and it took you down. The rules as written are a bit too video gamey for my tastes. Adding the negative HP 'desperation' state doesn't penalize ANYONE, it just adds a layer of believeability and immersion by allowing characters to stay standing after taking a wound that actually takes away their full fighting strength, but doesn't outright kill them or just 'knock them out'.
Example:
Say your warlock character is level 4 and has 32 HP. By the normal rules, he can take 32 damage before he's knocked unconscious, no ifs, ands, or butts. With the Boromir rule, however, if an enemy landed a lucky crit on you or you failed a save from an especially damaging attack, you could easily take 22 damage. If Aelar was already down 10 points from getting kicked around a little bit, you wouldn't expect him to suddenly be toasted... but wait! Aelar is down to 0 HP but he's not out of the fight yet! He still has access to his 3rd level feat in addition to still being able to move and act. Someone hits him with an arrow because they see he's hurt but he makes his save and now he's at -7 HP but still standing and keeps throwing out spells where WITHOUT the Boromir rule, he'd just be out of the fight entirely and helpless. In fact, the Boromir rule gets MORE powerful as your characters level up because they will still have access to their special abilities. A fighter with second wind? Make it an ACTUAL second wind and bring yourself back into the fight after you were down to -8 HP from the dice being ***** where normally you wouldn't be able to use it after being knocked unconscious. Clerics can give enemy nat 20's the finger and restore a -5 HP companion to full fighting fitness.
The intention is to give a little extra credibility to the story being crafted. Nobody wants to be 'that character' who fells a mighty opponent but then gets punched in the butt and falls over.... okay, that would be funny but the intention is to make the characters feel more like this is THEIR story, and they're not going to be taken out of it because of 1 or 2 bad rolls. It's BS, you know it, I know it, and with this being PBP, I cannot fudge dice rolls.
Finally, while rapiers and spears are DESIGNED for thrusting, that isn't to say they CAN'T be swung. Rapiers have an edge to them like all swords, they can easily cut in a swing. They're just reliant on speed rather than a strong swing like slashing weapons, and if you have opponents all bunched up on you and you're armed, the real fact is that it would actually be harder for you to MISS than it would be to hit so many targets around you. If you've got a spear, you've got a polearm, and spear fighters know how to fight with the whole weapon and not just the tip. In the span of 6 seconds, it would be a simple matter for a trained spear fighter to just jab and hit enemies all attempting to strike at once, especially ones so small. They would need very little force to give serious injuries to.
Again, this is just a proposal, a modification to the homebrew rules that were already described at the beginning. I thought that the Boromir rule in particular was way easier to understand and use than what was described earlier. Your thoughts and opinions DO matter here. Besides... kills some time while we're waiting for Leon to get back.))
DM, professional illustrator and comic artist, suffering from severe spinal stenosis, married, middle aged, and nerdy.
If that's your take on this, I guess you can apply it to everything, but it might feel a little stretched in my opinion.
A great example is the Urchin background. It gives you proficiency in Stealth and Sleight of Hand. You could say that those are things you learned from another urchin, but I think it's much better if you say you learned it yourself as a result of being an urchin. You weren't always a master sneak. You were probably caught trying to steal a loaf of bread many times, but you learnt from your mistakes and found how you can do it more efficiently. The Soldier background doesn't get that proficiency because... even if they did sneak up on the enemy occasionally, it wasn't something they did often enough to matter. Their survival wasn't dependant on that... not entirely anyway. Being able to intimidate the enemy to break their morale is often what truly wins a battle.
So there are multiple ways of learning, not just having some kind of teacher to, well, teach you. Some are autodidacts.
There are some weird takes on your approach to the HP system too. You took those 22 points of damage and say you're now at 1 HP, you're still fine, more or less. Then, a fox bit your leg for 1 damage and suddenly you're desperate for your life. Sure, it's also a problem in the normal ruleset. There's this UA rule of Vitality which seems to be a better option. The change is not based on your amount of HP, but rather on the strength of the blow. Also, it means having one night's sleep doesn't immediately heal all the damage you've taken. It only increases your Vitality by 1, meaning the damage from the blow the other day still hinders you.
In the end, you can use any rules you choose to. I just think that, if you're trying it for realism's sake, the Vitality rule is more realistic than your approach. At least in my opinion.
Varielky
Still, however, D&D by its base rules gives proficiency to monsters that have no business having proficiency. A bandit is no better at swordfighting than an average citizen because bandits will never have learned how to fight a trained opponent. 1/8 CR bandits attack helpless targets in large numbers with surprise ambushes, not well-protected caravans. Your average kobold or goblin raider isn't a trained fencer, they're a street thug who would only attack a target if they knew they would have a certain victory. Put simply, proficiency is a feature that a character OR monster must have earned at some point, and the vast majority of low-levels have NOT, that's what makes them low-level.
The Boromir rule isn't for realism, it's just a check against silly things suddenly knocking your character out. I don't want D&D to be GURPS, but there ARE some rules that are incredibly limiting in what I can put together when I don't have a DM screen in front of me preventing you from seeing my rolls so you don't know if I'm overriding the dice.
Under the proposed homebrew rules (yes, this is just a proposal while we wait for Leon, I'm not saying 'this is how we're going to play' I'm saying 'hey what do you think about this') small animals without special attacks cannot do ANY damage to PC's given their damage penalty due to their STR, and in fact, small, untrained enemies would have very little chance of doing serious harm unless they got very lucky or again, attacked simultaneously. Under the proposed rules, taking 1 damage is extremely unlikely, and again, at the very least, using the Boromir rule means that at least being poked by a single lucky goblin doesn't just make your character faint.
Also, let's not forget, by the rulebook, you could reach level 2 by hunting down and killing 10 badgers. Like.... what?? I'm just trying to cut out the silly stuff that makes no damn sense.
DM, professional illustrator and comic artist, suffering from severe spinal stenosis, married, middle aged, and nerdy.
QUOTE:
Here's the thing though: having proficiency in say, medicine or history is a FAR cry from just knowing how to close your jaws when a prey item is within range, don't you think?
Yes, but you're assuming that the badger is just snapping its jaws more or less at random and hoping the prey is in range. It's not. No more than the hawk in flight is hoping to dive at the right time or the snake to strike at the right time. Have you ever watched two animals fight, say rams banging horns or zebras fighting for the right to mate? They are not just flailing away. They know what their doing and they learn to do it better over time. No one trains the wolf to hunt by scent and yet they can. People learn skills all the time without formal training and they can be very good. Many artists never go to art school, as another example.
QUOTE
Or knowing the finer points of sword fighting is different than using gross motor movements. Having proficiency means you have STUDIED.
No, it doesn't. It means, per Meriam-Webster: advancement in knowledge or skill, or from Oxford: a high degree of competence or skill; expertise. That skill can come from study but it can also be self-taught or be instinctive (from animals). Spiders don't study how to spin webs or how to anchor them yet they are very good at it. I've never been taught how to code, but I'm damn proficient at VBA.
QUOTE
The reason why every character doesn't just automatically have proficiency in EVERY skill is BECAUSE it DOES require formal training. It is a REQUIREMENT, otherwise by that logic, there should be rules for learning new skill proficiencies outside of leveling up by teaching yourself, but there aren't any. The only reason why the characters in this campaign get to learn skills now is because they're not finished maturing. Once level 1 however, you won't be able to learn new skills as you did in the prologue.
Actually, there are. From the PHB: "Training-You can spend time between adventures learning a new language or training with a set of tools. Your DM might allow additional training options. First, you must find an instructor willing to teach you." If I was the DM, the underlined part would be modified to include studying on your own just taking longer. An instructor is really only a tool to learning. There are books and simple trial and error (I refer back to my coding). I would also allow proficiency in skills to be gained.
As Firecat mentioned, many of the skills in the backgrounds are not taught by anyone but the school of life. Did someone teach the charlatan to deceive? What about the entertainer to perform? Maybe, but maybe she earned her keep singing in taverns without any formal training. Many of today's singers have no formal training. Who taught the folk hero survival? Was it his ranger dad? Or did he learn it by having to survive for months on his own in the mountainous forests after the orcs killed his parents?
The point is there are many ways to learn skills and formal training is only one of them.
QUOTE
Also, in regards to armour, again, studded leather is listed as being 13 pounds. My friggin CATS weigh more than that. 13 pounds distributed over your entire body won't slow ANYONE down in any appreciable way unless they're frail 80 year olds, especially considering that most combat in D&D is resolved in about 6 turns, or a single minute. The characters you play are not weekend warriors, they are ADVENTURERS, and if this is in regards to monks being able to wear light armours, again, the idea of an unarmoured monk in light robes forsaking armour because it's 'too heavy' is a fallacy created by pop culture. Historically, warrior monks would wear armour like any other military force. They should at least be able to wear leather armour without any appreciable penalties.
First, this isn't a fallacy created by pop culture. It's a real thing. All clothing restricts movement to a degree. The thicker and heavier the clothing, the greater the restriction. Skeptical? Consider dancing in a suit versus dancing in heavy winter clothing, complete with long-johns, thick socks, thick jeans, two shirts, a heavy winter coat going down to buttocks or lower. Now try fighting in that heavy clothing. Yes, all that clothing may weigh more than leather armor but maybe not at it is probably more flexible.However, the point is not that the armor will appreciably affect your speed. The point is it has a deleterious affect on your flexibility and reactions. There's a reason today's martial artists (of which I am one) do not train or fight in armor. It absolutely negatively affects your ability to fight. I've worn a padded gambeson at a renaissance festival for a sword fight. My reactions were slower and my movements more restricted. Those warrior monks (which did not include ninja's, BTW) accepted some movement restrictions in exchange for protection. Why do you assume that because they chose to wear armor it did not provide some restriction?
Again, you're the DM but I just don't agree with your logic or conclusions.
Tandor the White, Human Life Cleric
(Sorry to hold everyone back. I will make a post within the next three hours. Feel free to bot me if I don't show.)
DMing:
Solo Hoard of the Dragon Queen
Playing:
Baral- Coliseum of Conquest, Lazarus Vernon- Tale of Mercenaries; Bernard Lionsbane- Solo Curse of Strahd
Leon stares in awe at the block and parchment in his hands, placed too quickly in his grasp for him to refuse. He looks back up at Ashwa, a noblewoman far beyond his stature. Yet the sight of her moved something in his heart- something tender, unlike that pervasive force driving him to toil and fight. He's never felt this way before.
He says softly, "Ashwa, this could be dangerous for us. For you even more so than me."
But, he makes no move to return the items. Instead, he holds them tightly in his hands, and returns Ashwa's gaze with an expression of resolve.
"We will meet again at the Hawk's Nest. In the meantime, I'll do anything I can to be...more than this." He gestures as his commoner's clothing, blackened from the forge.
"I'll be there. Count on it."
DMing:
Solo Hoard of the Dragon Queen
Playing:
Baral- Coliseum of Conquest, Lazarus Vernon- Tale of Mercenaries; Bernard Lionsbane- Solo Curse of Strahd
(As for my take on the proposed rules, I understand that they are meant to make the game both enjoyable and more realistic. While I have no opinions on the debate for proficiencies for animals, I will say that we have a lot of homebrew rules. Some are great, especially the inventive system for skill gain and class levels. However, I'm not sure exactly how often some of these other rules will come up, such as any class can wear light armor, grappling an opponent to rip off a piece of armor. Even so, while I agree the Boromir rule will definitely lead to some fun moments during the campaign, I'm a bit more ambivalent on the light armor rule. Not because of realism purposes, but more because I am hesitant with fundamental changes to core rules that may disturb game balance/conflict with designer intent.
In the end, you are the DM. The final say is up to you.)
DMing:
Solo Hoard of the Dragon Queen
Playing:
Baral- Coliseum of Conquest, Lazarus Vernon- Tale of Mercenaries; Bernard Lionsbane- Solo Curse of Strahd
Kina, we could go back and forth and I could refute each of your arguments with more examples. The bottom line is I simply don't agree that animals/monsters simply cannot have proficiency in their natural weapons and the only way to gain proficiency is with study. OJT works wonders and does not require study or much actual training. Just work and experience and learning, and animals are quite capable of learning and adapting. I've watched it my dogs, seen it on television documentaries, etc.
Does having a teacher or book help? Sure. Is it required? No. Remember, someone had to be the first teacher which meant that person taught himself or herself. As for wolves learning from their parents...who or what trained the first wolf? Wolves simply know how to do it just like you know how to see. Did you learn stuff about that from your parents? Of course. Was it necessary? No. Put a hungry wolf pup who's never had meet before in front of 2 plates, one of lettuce and one of raw beef it is going to go for the beef. There are many examples of baby animals learning to survive without their mothers...no teachers. They simply know what to do and how to learn. If it helps any, I've read many books about wolves and dogs, I've trained dogs for a living, and I love documentaries about animals. I promise you, they know how to learn and adapt.
You keep saying that the fact they wore armor means it didn't hamper them. That's sophistry. It's like saying someone must like apples because she is eating one. No, the person may just be hungry and the apple is only thing around. Again, all armor is a trade-off reduced movement for increased protection. Did monks wear light armor? Yes. Did it degrade their ability to do martial arts? Yes. Did they accept the minor trade-off. Yes.
Besides which, RazorDawn makes good point about rules balance.
But, again, you're the boss. If you want to convince me, I'm sorry but that's not going to happen. I just see too many holes in your arguments. Do those matter? Not really as your the DM. I cannot give you my agreement but I will happily give you my acceptance :)
Tandor the White, Human Life Cleric
ooc: RazorDawn, did you miss this post?
Tandor the White, Human Life Cleric
Ashwa looks distressed when Leon downplays himself.
"I'm not ashamed of!.." she exclaims, then swiftly collects herself. "I don't regret that night. I already knew what you were when we met. That's ... why..." she trails off, eyes shifting to Aelar and Duncan. She looks like she wants to say more, but instead she just steps back, blushing furiously.
"The risk is mine to take. Besides, it's not like I'm the first noble to have broken the rules. At least I'm doing it for an honest reason." she says, glancing again to the others and looking about to see if anyone else heard.
"I'll look forward to our next meeting, Leon." she says, and then hurries off as politely as she can.
Duncan nudges Leon from behind, wiping his hands off and gives an impressed whistle.
"Damn, boy. You sure picked a tall one. Kid after my own heart." he chuckles a bit and then nods to Aelar.
"Go on, kid, you're done for the day. Best get cleaned up if you've got a lady like that waiting for you."
DM, professional illustrator and comic artist, suffering from severe spinal stenosis, married, middle aged, and nerdy.
((If you all wanna weigh in on some new thoughts I have regarding the homebrew rules, we can talk about them here:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/homebrew-house-rules/96393-player-survivability-for-pbp-rules-workshop
))
DM, professional illustrator and comic artist, suffering from severe spinal stenosis, married, middle aged, and nerdy.
(( Just gonna put this here))
Elra Skylash - Human Cleric | Vanzaren Tanidoni - Half Elf Wizard
Mindartis Liadon - Eladrin Barbarian | Naivara Siannodel - Half Elf Ranger
Arrila Evenwood - Half Elf Paladin | Callaphe of Setessa - Human Rogue
Katernin Nemetsk - Aasimar Cleric | Melody - Tiefling Bard
((Sorry sorry, I'll get right to it XD))
DM, professional illustrator and comic artist, suffering from severe spinal stenosis, married, middle aged, and nerdy.
The customer scoffs again and rolls her eyes.
"I got these here roots a week ago, how am I supposed to remember that?" she snaps irritably.
She fishes around her pockets and finds a crumpled bit of linen paper that looks like it was a receipt until she forgot to take it out of her work clothes and some drunk must have splashed her with his ale. There is writing on it, smudged as it is. She at least knows what it starts with. Mur-something-root.
(Roll perception OR insight. Your choice.)
DM, professional illustrator and comic artist, suffering from severe spinal stenosis, married, middle aged, and nerdy.
Perception: 7
((Sigh, im getting sick of this with dndbeyond))
Elra Skylash - Human Cleric | Vanzaren Tanidoni - Half Elf Wizard
Mindartis Liadon - Eladrin Barbarian | Naivara Siannodel - Half Elf Ranger
Arrila Evenwood - Half Elf Paladin | Callaphe of Setessa - Human Rogue
Katernin Nemetsk - Aasimar Cleric | Melody - Tiefling Bard
Kallista is able to make out 1/3 of the smudged words on the crumpled linen.
((Secret roll))
39
((Woo, lucky I rolled that.))
Kallista can read the words, "mash.... paste....wrap area" there's little doubt in her mind that it's murkwood root. How does she interpret the words?
DM, professional illustrator and comic artist, suffering from severe spinal stenosis, married, middle aged, and nerdy.
"Um," Kallista looks up, "it looks like it says here you're supposed to mash the roots into a paste, spread it on the affected area, then wrap it up. Does that sound like what he told you before Madame?"
Elra Skylash - Human Cleric | Vanzaren Tanidoni - Half Elf Wizard
Mindartis Liadon - Eladrin Barbarian | Naivara Siannodel - Half Elf Ranger
Arrila Evenwood - Half Elf Paladin | Callaphe of Setessa - Human Rogue
Katernin Nemetsk - Aasimar Cleric | Melody - Tiefling Bard
The woman thinks for a moment, then looks at the roots. She makes a face and then shoves the odd little purple potatoes at Kallista.
"You do it, if you're so damn smart." she says bitterly, her pride wounded from being confronted by her own shortcoming.
Does Kallista want to try to do it herself? She's fairly certain she has all the items she needs to paste up the roots, or she could just refuse. The woman seems pretty angry, but frankly, Kallista is in the clear. The woman doesn't have a leg to stand on to demand a return but Kallista can also see how swollen her ankle is. She might be grateful.
DM, professional illustrator and comic artist, suffering from severe spinal stenosis, married, middle aged, and nerdy.
Kallista nods, "Alright Mame, I'll do it for you if you want." She starts to gather up what she needs.
Elra Skylash - Human Cleric | Vanzaren Tanidoni - Half Elf Wizard
Mindartis Liadon - Eladrin Barbarian | Naivara Siannodel - Half Elf Ranger
Arrila Evenwood - Half Elf Paladin | Callaphe of Setessa - Human Rogue
Katernin Nemetsk - Aasimar Cleric | Melody - Tiefling Bard