Does any type of action break stealth? I.E: Open a door, pick a lock, subtle spell, wildshape, Hexblade summoning weapon, somatic only spells, or stuff like that?
"Stealth" isn't a specific thing to be broken. It is an attempt to hide opposed by another characters (passive) perception check. It is possible to be hidden from some creatures while simultaneously being not hidden to others.
Anything you do that draws attention to you will warrant either a new opposed stealth check, or automatically draw the attention of those who were alerted to your presence. What counts for drawing attention is circumstantial. A verbal or somatic component of a spell is explicitly something significant enough to be noticeable, but if the other creature is looking the other way, or is distracted by music, then they may be caught off-guard.
"You can’t hide from a creature that can see you clearly, and you give away your position if you make noise, such as shouting a warning or knocking over a vase."
Does any type of action break stealth? I.E: Open a door, pick a lock, subtle spell, wildshape, Hexblade summoning weapon, somatic only spells, or stuff like that?
Remember, Stealth is typically a challenge against the Passive or Active Perception rolls of a PC or NPC/ Monster. Though it typically comes down to a Stealth roll versus a Perception roll or floor, there are indeed many factors that the DM can deem make Stealth very difficult or impossible, or conversely, easy. The DM can with experience gauge when it makes sense to say "yeah, make a Stealth roll", or "You are seen/heard", and players gain the same experience.
Entire treatises have been written on Stealth conditions and modifiers.
If you are hidden — both unseen and unheard — when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses.
I would also rule that verbal components, speaking over a low whisper (like to someone not immediately next to you), or anything that makes more noise than walking or being in someones line of sight break stealth.
Out of the things you list in original post, opening a door is biggest risk (if seen or heard).
Just to emphasize, there is no such thing as "breaking stealth". There is only whether another creature notices you or not.
1) If you can be clearly seen then you are not hidden. Having +15 in stealth and rolling a 35 total will never keep you hidden if another creature is looking at you.
2) Clearly seen depends on your character abilities. Some creatures can hide behind other creatures (halflings). Some creature can hide when lightly obscured by natural conditions (wood elf). There are others and various conditions that are up to the DM. However, unless a creature has a special ability it needs to be heavily obscured (unseen) in order to hide.
3) Hidden is both unseen and unheard. If a creature makes sufficient noise or leaves some other trace they will not be hidden even if they are invisible. Being invisible does NOT mean automatically hidden. They still need to make a stealth check to determine whether they make any noise or leave any other trace of their presence (eg tracks).
4) If a character succeeds on a stealth check vs an opponent's passive perception then just moving would not allow the opponent to detect them (unless the circumstances change like a creature encountering an area of scattered egg shells that crunch underfoot - the DM could rule that the creature automatically makes noise or request another stealth check due to changed conditions).
So assuming that a character has made a successful stealth check then ...
-Open a door
If you open a door and you are seen then you aren't hidden. However, any creatures looking at the door know someone is likely there and there would be no possibility of surprise.
-pick a lock
If picking a lock makes noise or an opponent can see you doing it then you aren't hidden. Up to the DM depending on the type of lock whether it makes noise.
-subtle spell
Subtle spell has no verbal or somatic components - so if you were hidden then you would stay hidden. However, most spells require you to be able to see your target and if you can see them then they may be able to see you.
-wildshape
Unless it makes noise or the character can be seen changing then the character should remain hidden
-Hexblade summoning weapon
As above - if you remain unseen and unheard then you remain hidden.
-somatic only spells
As above - if you remain unseen and unheard then you remain hidden.
Stealth is the Skill one uses to take the hide. The only things that are gonna make one suddenly unhidden are:
An attack.
A really loud noice like thunderwave, but only if the enemy isn’t deafened, and only if they are within the specified distance for the noise. (Note, [spel]booming blade[/spell] isn’t audible to any range specified.)
Some kind of flashy noticeable thing like a bright light display (like casting daylight right next to yourself) at night, and only if the enemy can see and isn’t blinded.
Just to emphasize, there is no such thing as "breaking stealth". There is only whether another creature notices you or not.
1) If you can be clearly seen then you are not hidden. Having +15 in stealth and rolling a 35 total will never keep you hidden if another creature is looking at you.
2) Clearly seen depends on your character abilities. Some creatures can hide behind other creatures (halflings). Some creature can hide when lightly obscured by natural conditions (wood elf). There are others and various conditions that are up to the DM. However, unless a creature has a special ability it needs to be heavily obscured (unseen) in order to hide.
3) Hidden is both unseen and unheard. If a creature makes sufficient noise or leaves some other trace they will not be hidden even if they are invisible. Being invisible does NOT mean automatically hidden. They still need to make a stealth check to determine whether they make any noise or leave any other trace of their presence (eg tracks).
4) If a character succeeds on a stealth check vs an opponent's passive perception then just moving would not allow the opponent to detect them (unless the circumstances change like a creature encountering an area of scattered egg shells that crunch underfoot - the DM could rule that the creature automatically makes noise or request another stealth check due to changed conditions).
So assuming that a character has made a successful stealth check then ...
-Open a door
If you open a door and you are seen then you aren't hidden. However, any creatures looking at the door know someone is likely there and there would be no possibility of surprise.
-pick a lock
If picking a lock makes noise or an opponent can see you doing it then you aren't hidden. Up to the DM depending on the type of lock whether it makes noise.
-subtle spell
Subtle spell has no verbal or somatic components - so if you were hidden then you would stay hidden. However, most spells require you to be able to see your target and if you can see them then they may be able to see you.
-wildshape
Unless it makes noise or the character can be seen changing then the character should remain hidden
-Hexblade summoning weapon
As above - if you remain unseen and unheard then you remain hidden.
-somatic only spells
As above - if you remain unseen and unheard then you remain hidden.
Yup.....Stealth is one of those things, that while there are numerous obvious conditions of failure to be Stealthy, is still something that is a whole lot of "feel" by a DM, and depends almost entirely on the local conditions presented by a DM. (Like everyone has said, impossible to hide in a clear hallway with an alert guard at one end of it). One of the situations that I see many new (and even experienced) DM's get wrong is that Invisible creatures still need to make a Stealth roll to see if they moved quietly enough, (or stop moving entirely well enough when they take the Hide action).
Stealth is the Skill one uses to take the hide. The only things that are gonna make one suddenly unhidden are:
An attack.
A really loud noice like thunderwave, but only if the enemy isn’t deafened, and only if they are within the specified distance for the noise. (Note, [Tooltip Not Found] isn’t audible to any range specified.)
Some kind of flashy noticeable thing like a bright light display (like casting daylight right next to yourself) at night, and only if the enemy can see and isn’t blinded.
The only things? Walking out of the cover you are using to conceal your position into the middle of a brightly lit field would not reveal your position?
Say you were hiding in the entry tunnel to a gladiatorial stadium and step out on to the open, cover-lacking combat field while the stands are full... still hidden?
Yeah, I was just going to ignore it and how apparently speaking at a normal volume next to an enemy doesn't reveal your location...
Stealth is the Skill one uses to take the hide. The only things that are gonna make one suddenly unhidden are:
An attack.
A really loud noice like thunderwave, but only if the enemy isn’t deafened, and only if they are within the specified distance for the noise. (Note, [Tooltip Not Found] isn’t audible to any range specified.)
Some kind of flashy noticeable thing like a bright light display (like casting daylight right next to yourself) at night, and only if the enemy can see and isn’t blinded.
The only things? Walking out of the cover you are using to conceal your position into the middle of a brightly lit field would not reveal your position?
Say you were hiding in the entry tunnel to a gladiatorial stadium and step out on to the open, cover-lacking combat field while the stands are full... still hidden?
Yeah, I was just going to ignore it and how apparently speaking at a normal volume next to an enemy doesn't reveal your location...
The rule governing the Verbal component for a spell are a spell is one of the things most abused, when it comes to Stealth. You cast a spell with a V component, you ARE heard. You can't whisper "ala cad bra" to yourself. Otherwise, the Subtle Spell feature loses so much value.
The rule governing the Verbal component for a spell are a spell is one of the things most abused, when it comes to Stealth. You cast a spell with a V component, you ARE heard. You can't whisper "ala cad bra" to yourself. Otherwise, the Subtle Spell feature loses so much value.
Yeah, I make it a point when I DM that verbal components must be spoken in a loud clear voice (not a shout) and that anybody who knows anything about spellcasting can tell it is a spell (in the way voices echo/resonate in shows when they cast magic.)
The rule governing the Verbal component for a spell are a spell is one of the things most abused, when it comes to Stealth. You cast a spell with a V component, you ARE heard. You can't whisper "ala cad bra" to yourself. Otherwise, the Subtle Spell feature loses so much value.
Yeah, I make it a point when I DM that verbal components must be spoken in a loud clear voice (not a shout) and that anybody who knows anything about spellcasting can tell it is a spell (in the way voices echo/resonate in shows when they cast magic.)
Is it in “magic language,” or common? What I really am asking is can muggles understand the V components?
The rule governing the Verbal component for a spell are a spell is one of the things most abused, when it comes to Stealth. You cast a spell with a V component, you ARE heard. You can't whisper "ala cad bra" to yourself. Otherwise, the Subtle Spell feature loses so much value.
Yeah, I make it a point when I DM that verbal components must be spoken in a loud clear voice (not a shout) and that anybody who knows anything about spellcasting can tell it is a spell (in the way voices echo/resonate in shows when they cast magic.)
Is it in “magic language,” or common? What I really am asking is can muggles understand the V components?
I would love to be an totally immersive DM with loads of time and create a language of magic for V components. Or demand that players come up with phrases for their spells.
Oh, I don’t mean a specific language. Do you know how in the Dresden Files world, wizards use dead languages as the verbal components for their spells? (So that way they don’t accidentally set something on fire if they say the word “fire” a little too emphatically in a modern language that they speak.) Dresden uses a Latin-ish kind of vocabulary one of the other wizards uses, I believe, Sanskrit. They specifically don’t use whatever their “common language(s)” is/are.
Stealth is the Skill one uses to take the hide. The only things that are gonna make one suddenly unhidden are:
An attack.
A really loud noice like thunderwave, but only if the enemy isn’t deafened, and only if they are within the specified distance for the noise. (Note, [Tooltip Not Found] isn’t audible to any range specified.)
Some kind of flashy noticeable thing like a bright light display (like casting daylight right next to yourself) at night, and only if the enemy can see and isn’t blinded.
The only things? Walking out of the cover you are using to conceal your position into the middle of a brightly lit field would not reveal your position?
Say you were hiding in the entry tunnel to a gladiatorial stadium and step out on to the open, cover-lacking combat field while the stands are full... still hidden?
Yeah, I was just going to ignore it and how apparently speaking at a normal volume next to an enemy doesn't reveal your location...
I didn’t feel it necessary to be so pedantic as to state the obvious.
Oh, I don’t mean a specific language. Do you know how in the Dresden Files world, wizards use dead languages as the verbal components for their spells? (So that way they don’t accidentally set something on fire if they say the word “fire” a little too emphatically in a modern language that they speak.) Dresden uses a Latin-ish kind of vocabulary one of the other wizards uses, I believe, Sanskrit. They specifically don’t use whatever their “common language(s)” is/are.
Dresden uses Spanish (at least some of the time; “fire” is actually the only specific magic word I remember from those books), which is technically “Latin-ish” I suppose, but certainly not dead XD
The rule governing the Verbal component for a spell are a spell is one of the things most abused, when it comes to Stealth. You cast a spell with a V component, you ARE heard. You can't whisper "ala cad bra" to yourself. Otherwise, the Subtle Spell feature loses so much value.
Yeah, I make it a point when I DM that verbal components must be spoken in a loud clear voice (not a shout) and that anybody who knows anything about spellcasting can tell it is a spell (in the way voices echo/resonate in shows when they cast magic.)
Is it in “magic language,” or common? What I really am asking is can muggles understand the V components?
That, I leave up to the player. For me, I vary it depending on where my magic comes from. Clerics say prayers, bards a song, wizards may not even use words and just the needed sounds, sorcerers look like they are trying to poop while repeating what they want to happen, that kind of thing. And each character will have a preferred language (if any) that they use for spellcasting.
Oh, I don’t mean a specific language. Do you know how in the Dresden Files world, wizards use dead languages as the verbal components for their spells? (So that way they don’t accidentally set something on fire if they say the word “fire” a little too emphatically in a modern language that they speak.) Dresden uses a Latin-ish kind of vocabulary one of the other wizards uses, I believe, Sanskrit. They specifically don’t use whatever their “common language(s)” is/are.
Dresden uses Spanish (at least some of the time; “fire” is actually the only specific magic word I remember from those books), which is technically “Latin-ish” I suppose, but certainly not dead XD
I cannot remember which book, but Harry specifically referred to it as Latinish. You are correct that for his Fire based spells he does use “Fuego” as his V component, however I suspect that was a Publisher call that Butcher acquiesced to. (Probably because the majority of potential readers wouldn’t draw the association between “ignis” and “fire.” Even if that was a Butcher decision, he used fuego in Book 1, and didn’t narrate any explanation into the matter until later, I think it was around when we get better introduced to The White Council.
Additionally in one of the later books* I think we learn that Fuego was the very first Battle Evocation an adolescent Dresden learned how to cast and it was the word that kept to mind at the time. *(It might have been in one of the independent short stories published in an anthology with other authors which was how I discovered Patricia Briggs.)
Edit: I did a little checking and from the Dresden Files Wiki (powered by the same folks who host us here) and he primarily uses what he refers to as “Faux Latin” with a smidge of Spanish, Italian, and a couple dashes of nonsense.
Unlike some of the other magic users in the series, Dresden shouts foreign languages and faux Latin commands to perform spells. For example, Dresden lights candles in his apartment by muttering "Fliccum Biccus," an allusion to the "Flick your Bic" lighter advertising campaign. When Dresden utters this phrase and infuses the spell with a minor effort of his will, his candles light up or the fire in his fireplace comes to life. He often uses "Fuego!" (Spanish for fire) when using fire magic and "Forzare!" (Italian for 'to force') with kinetic magic. He explained that most magic users use some language they're not familiar with for their incantations, to provide a bit of magical insulation to the user's mind from the forces they are channeling and to avoid accidentally casting a spell by uttering a common phrase in a language they're used to. Elaine uses Egyptian.
So it seems we are both equally correct and incorrect. It doesn’t need to be a “dead language,” merely a word/phrase that is not isn’t language well known by the caster.* In one scene in the novel Full Moon, Dresden didn’t note the actual thing said and merely narrated
Then I drew in a breath, and my renewed will with it, lifted the rod in my right hand, murmured a phrase in a language I didn't know, and blew the tires off his ******* truck.
I personally interpreted that as an admission that even Harry has no idea what the heck he actually said.
*I do happen to remember that in Ghost Story he discovered he could use the same general principles used in Evocation magics (except requiring several magnitudes more Willpower) to manifest physically, and for that he simply spoke the word “Be” as a kind of imperative command to himself. (It stuck out on account of it being English. However o chalked that up to it not actually being an Evocation, simply him using the familiarity with the process as a way to focus his will sufficiently to do the thing. 🤷♂️
The rule governing the Verbal component for a spell are a spell is one of the things most abused, when it comes to Stealth. You cast a spell with a V component, you ARE heard. You can't whisper "ala cad bra" to yourself. Otherwise, the Subtle Spell feature loses so much value.
Yeah, I make it a point when I DM that verbal components must be spoken in a loud clear voice (not a shout) and that anybody who knows anything about spellcasting can tell it is a spell (in the way voices echo/resonate in shows when they cast magic.)
This is why it's so critical to clarify with your GM early - the rulings here are common and typical, but shut down most of the shenanigans Arcane Tricksters want to engage in, including using their Mage Hand stealthfully, which, under most GMs, is just impossible. No two GMs approach Stealth the same way - which is why it's also impossible to judge a priori how useful it is for Battle Masters to learn Ambush, which lets them spend maneuver dice on stealth - but it's quite rare to be allowed to apply the Stealth skill to magic like you can to everything else, like swords, bows, and, I don't know, calligraphy.
Arcane Trickster can cast Mage Hand using their action and then use their Cunning Action bonus action to Hide. How are DMs making this impossible?
You can do that. Now everyone knows you just cast a spell and then disappeared, and you haven't picked any pockets yet. They can GTFO, call the city watch, whatever.
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Does any type of action break stealth?
I.E: Open a door, pick a lock, subtle spell, wildshape, Hexblade summoning weapon, somatic only spells, or stuff like that?
"Stealth" isn't a specific thing to be broken. It is an attempt to hide opposed by another characters (passive) perception check. It is possible to be hidden from some creatures while simultaneously being not hidden to others.
Anything you do that draws attention to you will warrant either a new opposed stealth check, or automatically draw the attention of those who were alerted to your presence. What counts for drawing attention is circumstantial. A verbal or somatic component of a spell is explicitly something significant enough to be noticeable, but if the other creature is looking the other way, or is distracted by music, then they may be caught off-guard.
Remember, Stealth is typically a challenge against the Passive or Active Perception rolls of a PC or NPC/ Monster. Though it typically comes down to a Stealth roll versus a Perception roll or floor, there are indeed many factors that the DM can deem make Stealth very difficult or impossible, or conversely, easy. The DM can with experience gauge when it makes sense to say "yeah, make a Stealth roll", or "You are seen/heard", and players gain the same experience.
Entire treatises have been written on Stealth conditions and modifiers.
One thing we know for sure:
I would also rule that verbal components, speaking over a low whisper (like to someone not immediately next to you), or anything that makes more noise than walking or being in someones line of sight break stealth.
Out of the things you list in original post, opening a door is biggest risk (if seen or heard).
Just to emphasize, there is no such thing as "breaking stealth". There is only whether another creature notices you or not.
1) If you can be clearly seen then you are not hidden. Having +15 in stealth and rolling a 35 total will never keep you hidden if another creature is looking at you.
2) Clearly seen depends on your character abilities. Some creatures can hide behind other creatures (halflings). Some creature can hide when lightly obscured by natural conditions (wood elf). There are others and various conditions that are up to the DM. However, unless a creature has a special ability it needs to be heavily obscured (unseen) in order to hide.
3) Hidden is both unseen and unheard. If a creature makes sufficient noise or leaves some other trace they will not be hidden even if they are invisible. Being invisible does NOT mean automatically hidden. They still need to make a stealth check to determine whether they make any noise or leave any other trace of their presence (eg tracks).
4) If a character succeeds on a stealth check vs an opponent's passive perception then just moving would not allow the opponent to detect them (unless the circumstances change like a creature encountering an area of scattered egg shells that crunch underfoot - the DM could rule that the creature automatically makes noise or request another stealth check due to changed conditions).
So assuming that a character has made a successful stealth check then ...
-Open a door
If you open a door and you are seen then you aren't hidden. However, any creatures looking at the door know someone is likely there and there would be no possibility of surprise.
-pick a lock
If picking a lock makes noise or an opponent can see you doing it then you aren't hidden. Up to the DM depending on the type of lock whether it makes noise.
-subtle spell
Subtle spell has no verbal or somatic components - so if you were hidden then you would stay hidden. However, most spells require you to be able to see your target and if you can see them then they may be able to see you.
-wildshape
Unless it makes noise or the character can be seen changing then the character should remain hidden
-Hexblade summoning weapon
As above - if you remain unseen and unheard then you remain hidden.
-somatic only spells
As above - if you remain unseen and unheard then you remain hidden.
Stealth is the Skill one uses to take the hide. The only things that are gonna make one suddenly unhidden are:
An attack.
A really loud noice like thunderwave, but only if the enemy isn’t deafened, and only if they are within the specified distance for the noise. (Note, [spel]booming blade[/spell] isn’t audible to any range specified.)
Some kind of flashy noticeable thing like a bright light display (like casting daylight right next to yourself) at night, and only if the enemy can see and isn’t blinded.
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Yup.....Stealth is one of those things, that while there are numerous obvious conditions of failure to be Stealthy, is still something that is a whole lot of "feel" by a DM, and depends almost entirely on the local conditions presented by a DM. (Like everyone has said, impossible to hide in a clear hallway with an alert guard at one end of it). One of the situations that I see many new (and even experienced) DM's get wrong is that Invisible creatures still need to make a Stealth roll to see if they moved quietly enough, (or stop moving entirely well enough when they take the Hide action).
Yeah, I was just going to ignore it and how apparently speaking at a normal volume next to an enemy doesn't reveal your location...
The rule governing the Verbal component for a spell are a spell is one of the things most abused, when it comes to Stealth. You cast a spell with a V component, you ARE heard. You can't whisper "ala cad bra" to yourself. Otherwise, the Subtle Spell feature loses so much value.
Yeah, I make it a point when I DM that verbal components must be spoken in a loud clear voice (not a shout) and that anybody who knows anything about spellcasting can tell it is a spell (in the way voices echo/resonate in shows when they cast magic.)
Is it in “magic language,” or common? What I really am asking is can muggles understand the V components?
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I would love to be an totally immersive DM with loads of time and create a language of magic for V components. Or demand that players come up with phrases for their spells.
Oh, I don’t mean a specific language. Do you know how in the Dresden Files world, wizards use dead languages as the verbal components for their spells? (So that way they don’t accidentally set something on fire if they say the word “fire” a little too emphatically in a modern language that they speak.) Dresden uses a Latin-ish kind of vocabulary one of the other wizards uses, I believe, Sanskrit. They specifically don’t use whatever their “common language(s)” is/are.
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I didn’t feel it necessary to be so pedantic as to state the obvious.
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Dresden uses Spanish (at least some of the time; “fire” is actually the only specific magic word I remember from those books), which is technically “Latin-ish” I suppose, but certainly not dead XD
That, I leave up to the player. For me, I vary it depending on where my magic comes from. Clerics say prayers, bards a song, wizards may not even use words and just the needed sounds, sorcerers look like they are trying to poop while repeating what they want to happen, that kind of thing. And each character will have a preferred language (if any) that they use for spellcasting.
I cannot remember which book, but Harry specifically referred to it as Latinish. You are correct that for his Fire based spells he does use “Fuego” as his V component, however I suspect that was a Publisher call that Butcher acquiesced to. (Probably because the majority of potential readers wouldn’t draw the association between “ignis” and “fire.” Even if that was a Butcher decision, he used fuego in Book 1, and didn’t narrate any explanation into the matter until later, I think it was around when we get better introduced to The White Council.
Additionally in one of the later books* I think we learn that Fuego was the very first Battle Evocation an adolescent Dresden learned how to cast and it was the word that kept to mind at the time.
*(It might have been in one of the independent short stories published in an anthology with other authors which was how I discovered Patricia Briggs.)
Edit: I did a little checking and from the Dresden Files Wiki (powered by the same folks who host us here) and he primarily uses what he refers to as “Faux Latin” with a smidge of Spanish, Italian, and a couple dashes of nonsense.
So it seems we are both equally correct and incorrect. It doesn’t need to be a “dead language,” merely a word/phrase that is not isn’t language well known by the caster.* In one scene in the novel Full Moon, Dresden didn’t note the actual thing said and merely narrated
I personally interpreted that as an admission that even Harry has no idea what the heck he actually said.
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This is why it's so critical to clarify with your GM early - the rulings here are common and typical, but shut down most of the shenanigans Arcane Tricksters want to engage in, including using their Mage Hand stealthfully, which, under most GMs, is just impossible. No two GMs approach Stealth the same way - which is why it's also impossible to judge a priori how useful it is for Battle Masters to learn Ambush, which lets them spend maneuver dice on stealth - but it's quite rare to be allowed to apply the Stealth skill to magic like you can to everything else, like swords, bows, and, I don't know, calligraphy.
Arcane Trickster can cast Mage Hand using their action and then use their Cunning Action bonus action to Hide. How are DMs making this impossible?
You can do that. Now everyone knows you just cast a spell and then disappeared, and you haven't picked any pockets yet. They can GTFO, call the city watch, whatever.