In TCoE, the Wizard: Order of Scribes subclass has the following feature at second level:
Wizardly Quill
At 2nd level, as a bonus action, you can magically create a Tiny quill in your free hand. The magic quill has the following properties:
The quill doesn’t require ink. When you write with it, it produces ink in a color of your choice on the writing surface.
The time you must spend to copy a spell into your spell book equals 2 minutes per spell level if you use the quill for the transcription.
You can erase anything you write with the quill if you wave the feather over the text as a bonus action, provided the text is within 5 feet of you.
This quill disappears if you create another one or if you die.
Now here’s my question: does this feature reduce the GP cost of copying a spell to 0 GP? Personally, I think it’s either:
RAW: No, because it doesn’t mention GP
RAI: Yes, because the ink cost is removed, and the purpose is to be able to copy spells on the fly, such as in a dungeon crawl. Where are you even going to spend that cash in the middle of a dungeon?
There's also another possibility: It could reduce the cost to 2% of the normal cost (Directly proportional to the time and GP reduction for other wizard subclasses), so 1gp per spell level. Basically free.
The cost is based on "The cost represents material components you expend as you experiment with the spell to master it, as well as the fine inks you need to record it."
The quill from the school generates ink of any colour. It doesn't specify that it counts as a "fine ink" for the spellbook ability. The benefit to the spellbook is the speed of writing, nothing else.
The feature does not say it reduces that cost, so it doesn't.
There has already been a thread that argued this for several pages. I hope it doesn't start again, because it really is as simple as "it doesn't do what it doesn't do."
The free ink feature is a weird thing to add as confusions like this was destined to occur.
2. Material components are free due to the existence of your arcane focus. And even if we said it can't be used for experiments, wouldn't it be nonsensical if we take spells with no material components into consideration. No?
The order of the scribes features later describes the pen being used to copy ink into a scroll for reduced cost, indicating the ink being magical.
The whole stick with order of the scribes is to collect as many spells as possible, so a reduced gold cost in some form seems only natural.
2 minutes to write in the spell is pointless if it is in correlation with practicing, which should at least take 30 min-1 hour. This would make the feature obsolete and nerf all wizards indirectly as experimenting with material components goes outside of the time taken to write down spells.
Conclusion. The order of the scribes wizards are the best chronomancers to ever exist, somehow time-skipping the entire experimentation process down to 2 minutes.
Honestly I think WOTC should clarify the description more as I have met a handful of people being confused about this in my playthroughs...
Totally free. In fact, you cannot use the quill with the normal rules for copying spells, even if you wanted to. Why?
Wizardly Quill
2nd-level Order of Scribes feature
As a bonus action, you can magically create a Tiny quill in your free hand. The magic quill has the following properties:
The quill doesn’t require ink. When you write with it, it produces ink in a color of your choice on the writing surface.
The time you must spend to copy a spell into your spellbook equals 2 minutes per spell level if you use the quill for the transcription.
You can erase anything you write with the quill if you wave the feather over the text as a bonus action, provided the text is within 5 feet of you.
This quill disappears if you create another one or if you die.
The quill is a class feature. It does exactly what it says it does and nothing else. This quill doesn't require ink. This quill can transcribe spells. You cannot use as described in the base class Spellbook feature, since it doesn't say you can. therefore, when you use it to transcribe spells, you use it's rules for transcribing them. That rule? 2 minutes per level. That's it.
Copying Rules:
Copying a Spell into the Book. When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a spell level you can prepare and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it.
Copying that spell into your spellbook involves reproducing the basic form of the spell, then deciphering the unique system of notation used by the wizard who wrote it. You must practice the spell until you understand the sounds or gestures required, then transcribe it into your spellbook using your own notation.
For each level of the spell, the process takes 2 hours and costs 50 gp. The cost represents material components you expend as you experiment with the spell to master it, as well as the fine inks you need to record it. Once you have spent this time and money, you can prepare the spell just like your other spells.
The quill doesn't say you can use it with inks. So it is incompatible with the entirety of the red text.
The events I prophesied 17 months ago are coming to pass (I didn't think it would take so long honestly).
I'm just going to point out what we know as RAW as simple math problems to make the logic obvious (i = special ink for copying spells cost, m = material components for experimenting with spells cost):
i > 0
m > 0
i + m = 50gp/spell level
Simple enough right? Now, if 50 - i = 0 then materials must cost 0, but the RAW specifically states materials contribute to the cost thus must have a non-zero cost.
Tl;dr the feature does what it says it does and does not do what it does not say it can do. It doesn't say it reduces the cost to copy spells, so the answer is self evident.
As for other non-raw arguments as to why the quill can do more than it says:
When learning a spell, you don't already know if the spell has material components and not trying materials won't help you learn.
Crafting scrolls use different rules and costs than copying spells and are not comparable.
Reduced cost (but still not zero cost) does make sense, but is not RAW. Do not claim house rules as RAW.
How you describe how the time to copy spells is spent doing is up to you. It is weird that this implies 118 minutes is spent writing for every 2 minutes of thinking and testing, but the rules have never claimed to logical...
In specific vs general rules, only the parts that contradict are replaced. Scribes specifically change the time it takes, but don't mention any change to cost, so there isn't. If we tried to apply this logic to all specific vs general cases, monks would lose proficiency in unarmed strikes because martial arts doesn't mention it when replacing damage and ability.
I'm just going to point out what we know as RAW as simple math problems to make the logic obvious (i = special ink for copying spells cost, m = material components for experimenting with spells cost):
i > 0
m > 0
i + m = 50gp/spell level
Simple enough right? Now, if 50 - i = 0 then materials must cost 0, but the RAW specifically states materials contribute to the cost thus must have a non-zero cost.
Tl;dr the feature does what it says it does and does not do what it does not say it can do. It doesn't say it reduces the cost to copy spells, so the answer is self evident.
Math is unnecessary. You cannot use the quill with the magical inks needed per the Spellbook rules entry. So that rule doesn't apply. The Quill doesn't use ink. As an ability, if it could use those magical inks it would say it could. it actually says the opposite, that it doesn't use ink. Transcribing a spell only requires exactly what it says it requires in the magical quill feature and nothing else, 2 min per level. Adding additional costs is homebrew.
As for other non-raw arguments as to why the quill can do more than it says:
When learning a spell, you don't already know if the spell has material components and not trying materials won't help you learn.
Crafting scrolls use different rules and costs than copying spells and are not comparable.
Reduced cost (but still not zero cost) does make sense, but is not RAW. Do not claim house rules as RAW.
How you describe how the time to copy spells is spent doing is up to you. It is weird that this implies 118 minutes is spent writing for every 2 minutes of thinking and testing, but the rules have never claimed to logical...
None of this is relevant.
In specific vs general rules, only the parts that contradict are replaced. Scribes specifically change the time it takes, but don't mention any change to cost, so there isn't. If we tried to apply this logic to all specific vs general cases, monks would lose proficiency in unarmed strikes because martial arts doesn't mention it when replacing damage and ability.
Hmm, no. The Magical Quill only does what it says it does. it allows you to transcribe a spell for 2 min per spell level. No cost is listed, so you don't add one. We're not changing anything, we're just following the text of the ability itself. And doing what the ability says to do. You can copy a spell in 2 minutes per spell level by using the quill. Fin.
This quill is fundamentally incompatible with the rule you keep saying it changes. It doesn't change it. It doesn't use that rule at all. It is its own ability. It cannot be used with that rule because it cannot be used to do something not listed in its text, as it is an ability and it cannot do things not listed. it cannot be used with magical inks and practice and etc as a normal wizard would because this wizarding quill feature doesn't say that the quill can do that. So it cannot. It is complete unto itself.
You must practice the spell until you understand the sounds or gestures required, then transcribe it into your spellbook using your own notation.
This is the typical process. Practice it, then transcribe it. This whole process takes 2 hours/level.
The quill doesn't use this rule. it just skips straight to transcribing:
The time you must spend to copy a spell into your spellbook equals 2 minutes per spell level if you use the quill for the transcription.
By using the quill you simply transcribe it straight into your book. Because that's what it says.
If you use the quill for transcription, you must spend two minutes per level of the spell.
It doesn't say you must practice the spell beforehand. it doesn't say anything of the sort. You just transcribe it directly because that's what it says the quill does.
It's incredibly unclear what either of you are saying, and right now I'm genuinely convinced that you are arguing with each other yet somehow have the same position. O, the wonders of the internet.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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I do not believe they have the same position at all.
DxJxC's argument if I interpret it correctly is that there is still a cost for copying the spell as a scribe, which is arrived at by reading the 'Wizardly Quill' subclass feature into (and in context of) the 'Copying a Spell' paragraphs of the "Your Spellbook" sidebar to the "Spellcasting" class feature.
Ravnodaus's argument in contrast, again if I interpret correctly, is that the 'Wizardly Quill' feature must be read on it's own as a separate and distinct feature, and that since that text does not mention a cost, there is not one.
IMHO Ravnodaus is correct - I would compare it to the armor class calculations given by different features (natural armor, unarmored defense, etc). You either use the rule of feature X or of feature Y, but mixing them together is incorrect.
IMHO Ravnodaus is correct - I would compare it to the armor class calculations given by different features (natural armor, unarmored defense, etc). You either use the rule of feature X or of feature Y, but mixing them together is incorrect.
In the case of armor class, there is a rule that says you can't mix them, so that is not ambiguous. There is no such rule for class features. The closest is the specific beats general rule which makes no mention about replacing rules that aren't contradicted along with the ones that are.
RAI It's full cost, reduced time. As evidence, the UA specifically stated that both were reduced and the cost reduction was removed for the final printing.
This is the correct answer, and I believe it's RAI as well; if the quill was intended to eliminate the cost in anything other than time then it would say so. "Ink of any color" is not the same as "the exact specific ink required to transcribe spells".
RAI: Yes, because the ink cost is removed, and the purpose is to be able to copy spells on the fly, such as in a dungeon crawl. Where are you even going to spend that cash in the middle of a dungeon?
With the way the transcribing rule is written it's a bit unclear, but I think it's wrong to think of this as a transaction that must take place at the time of copying; if you're planning to transcribe spells, or would like to be able to do so, then you should be able to buy the supplies you need in advance. But this only works for spells that you know you will be copying, and I think that's intended; you shouldn't expect to be able to pick up a scroll and immediately copy it into your spellbook, as the process is way, way more complicated than just copying what you see.
Add the scroll to your inventory, and next time you're passing by some shops that might sell what you need, buy it. That way you can then use the reduced copy time to copy those scrolls during pretty much any idle time you can get. That's really what this bonus is for; it reduces the copying time so you can get more of it done in less time. It's worth keeping in mind that obtaining the special inks and material components also takes time, so your average wizard copying a 1st-level spell doesn't only take 2 hours to do it; they need to source what they need to do the copying, so it might take a lot longer.
If you're in a city and we assume it takes twenty minutes to get transcribing materials, then your non-scribes wizard is going to take around two and half hours to copy one spell, whereas your scribes wizard could copy multiple in half an hour. How much this benefits you in practice will depend a lot on how strict your DM is about times and shopping; if your DM just goes "it says 50 gp so deduct 50 gp" and doesn't really account for downtime and such then you won't see much benefit, but if instead they say "so you've got about five hours for downtime" then the order of scribes wizard can spend more of that carousing than another wizard might. 😉
Plus there are other potential fun benefits to the quill; I recently had my wizard get his hands manacled (don't ask), and the ability to summon the quill into his hand as a bonus action meant he immediately had something he could use to try and pick the lock. It took him a while, but hey, the awkward pick that you have is better than the thieves' tools that you don't!
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DxJxC you hit the nail on the head with specific beats general which is exactly what is (or should be) going on here.
The Wizardly Quill (as a complete whole) is a specific rule that allows spells to be copied - which beats the general rule of how spells are copied... you are instead proposing that parts of a specific rule beat parts of the general rule. When the designer's intent is to modify (i.e. parts of a specific rule override parts of a general rule as you are suggesting), they make either explicit or implicit reference to the general rule, for example in the Savant feature of the other Wizard subclasses it says "the gold and time you must spend to copy a ... spell into your spellbook is halved." This is an implicit reference to the general rule of copying spells. Similarly in the latter part of the Scribe's Master Scrivener feature the time and cost of crafting a spell scroll (using the wizardly quill) makes explicit reference to the DMG saying the time and cost is halved. (which also leads to the question, if scrolls can be made at half cost why would copying spells be at full cost?)
Likewise with the Awakened Spell Book feature the general rule of replacing a lost spellbook at a cost of 1 hour and 10gp per level to transcribe spells you have prepared into a new book is beat by the specific rule that in the span of a short rest you write a few sigils into a blank book and your spellbook's consciousness magically transforms the book into your spellbook complete with all it's spells (with no cost specified).
As you astutely pointed out earlier in this thread "the feature does what it says it does and does not do what it does not say it can do." In the case of Wizardly Quill it does not say (explicitly or implicityl) that it modifies the general rule, therefore it does not and must operate independent of the general rule.
Expanding on ROB_BHE's point. You cannot use the Magical Quill feature with normal inks required when you scribe spells into your spellbook. As a subclass feature, it does only what it says it does. If you could use it with inks it would say so. It says instead that it doesn't use ink. Ergo, it cannot be used to scribe scrolls using the standard spellbook rules.
Luckily, it doesn't need to use them. As it has its own.
The time you must spend to copy a spell into your spellbook equals 2 minutes per spell level if you use the quill for the transcription.
That's it, the whole thing. Takes 2 minutes per spell level.
It was even pointed out that Savant features DO modify normal Spellbook copying rules. This is true. but, you'll note some big differences in how it is worded:
Beginning when you select this school at 2nd level, the gold and time you must spend to copy an abjuration spell into your spellbook is halved.
This is a direct interaction with the default rule. Time and cost is halved.
Now, return your gaze to the Scribe's quill rule again and note that it isn't phrased in a way that modifies the existing rules at all. there is no "instead of" or "you only spend" or etc. It is an entirely stand alone method of transcribing spells that doesn't reference the default method. Savant, isn't standalone. That's the key takeaway from any comparison between the two. One modifies a rule, the other is its own rule.
This is similar, if I am to toss in another analogy, to how sometimes people get confused about action types. For example, if you use Alchemist's Fire. You are using an action, to make an attack roll, to attack a creature. But it isn't the "Attack Action". So despite having Extra Attack or whatever, you're not making an Attack Action. You've instead used your Action in a different way, one the item itself gives you the rules for, not the normal rules for Attack Actions. Same thing here. You're not using the transcription rules provided by the default spellbook text. You're using the rules for transcribing found in your specific quill feature text instead.
So just to be clear here, the copy spells for free advocates would also claim that order of the scribe wizards can copy cantrips and spells of a higher level than they can prepare into their spellbook since "When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a spell level you can prepare and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it" is part of the rule that is supposedly replaced in its entirety. Right?
And since wizardly quill doesn't mention spell level limits just like it doesn't mention price, that is an intentional omission intended to remove the general rule. That is your argument, correct?
Wizardly Quill provides free ink and halves the time it takes to write spells (when copying from another book). However, we're not told how long it takes to copy the spell or how much it costs for the inks when learning a new spell - the 50gp and 2 hours per level is not just copying the spell over and the inks, but also includes the process of learning and the materials used up in doing so, which the quill does not reduce or negate. If the feature were intended to have an effect on those costs, we would have been given explicit instructions on how apply it.
Instead, the feature seems to be intended for use when duplicating your own spellbook. We are given instructions that work for this.
If you wished to use houserule that the feature does help when learning new spells, it can be calculated by inferrance. However, that it has be done from inferrance tells us that it is not RAW or RAI. It is homebrew.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
So just to be clear here, the copy spells for free advocates would also claim that order of the scribe wizards can copy cantrips and spells of a higher level than they can prepare into their spellbook since "When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a spell level you can prepare and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it" is part of the rule that is supposedly replaced in its entirety. Right?
Cantrips aren't 1st level or higher, and they don't have a spell level. Dunno what you mean.
Are you trying to talk about the optional class feature?
Cantrip Formulas
3rd-level wizard feature
You have scribed a set of arcane formulas in your spellbook that you can use to formulate a cantrip in your mind. Whenever you finish a long rest and consult those formulas in your spellbook, you can replace one wizard cantrip you know with another cantrip from the wizard spell list.
And since wizardly quill doesn't mention spell level limits just like it doesn't mention price, that is an intentional omission intended to remove the general rule. That is your argument, correct?
I don't think anyone has tried to speak for the authors here. That'd be fairly presumptuous, no? I've never seen any of them mention what they were thinking while writing it. Maybe that's their goal? Who's to say but them?
Wizardly Quill provides free ink and halves the time it takes to write spells (when copying from another book).
Does it? I think you're mixing Scribes wizard up for all the different Savant wizard abilities. Savants halve the time and cost for copying spells of their specific school. Scribes doesn't. In fact, the Scribe's Wizardly Quill provides its own separate means of copying spells into your spellbook.
However, we're not told how long it takes to copy the spell or how much it costs for the inks when learning a new spell - the 50gp and 2 hours per level is not just copying the spell over and the inks, but also includes the process of learning and the materials used up in doing so, which the quill does not reduce or negate. If the feature were intended to have an effect on those costs, we would have been given explicit instructions on how apply it.
We are told. It takes 2 minutes per level. That's it.
Instead, the feature seems to be intended for use when duplicating your own spellbook. We are given instructions that work for this.
No. No we're not.The Quill is for Copying Spells into the spellbook. This feature is entirely silent and the 2 minutes/level is even incompatible with complete copies of a new book. Why?
The Awakened Spellbook feature has rules for reproducing your own spellbook. And it provides its own timeline guidance for this. You can make an entire duplicate over the course of a short rest.
Cost: Nothing. Time: Short Rest. Result: Whole new book.
If you wished to use houserule that the feature does help when learning new spells, it can be calculated by inferrance. However, that it has be done from inferrance tells us that it is not RAW or RAI. It is homebrew.
That is literally what the feature says it does. Homebrew is not required.
From Awakened Spellbook:
If necessary, you can replace the book over the course of a short rest by using your Wizardly Quill to write arcane sigils in a blank book or a magic spellbook to which you’re attuned. At the end of the rest, your spellbook’s consciousness is summoned into the new book, which the consciousness transforms into your spellbook, along with all its spells. If the previous book still existed somewhere, all the spells vanish from its pages.
As you can see, it has its own timing. Reproducing a spellbook isn't 'halved" it has its own timing. One short rest. The Quill can also be used for copying new spells into your book:
The time you must spend to copy a spell into your spellbook equals 2 minutes per spell level if you use the quill for the transcription.
In TCoE, the Wizard: Order of Scribes subclass has the following feature at second level:
Wizardly Quill
At 2nd level, as a bonus action, you can magically create a Tiny quill in your free hand. The magic quill has the following properties:
This quill disappears if you create another one or if you die.
Now here’s my question: does this feature reduce the GP cost of copying a spell to 0 GP? Personally, I think it’s either:
RAW: No, because it doesn’t mention GP
RAI: Yes, because the ink cost is removed, and the purpose is to be able to copy spells on the fly, such as in a dungeon crawl. Where are you even going to spend that cash in the middle of a dungeon?
There's also another possibility: It could reduce the cost to 2% of the normal cost (Directly proportional to the time and GP reduction for other wizard subclasses), so 1gp per spell level. Basically free.
What do you think?
The cost is based on "The cost represents material components you expend as you experiment with the spell to master it, as well as the fine inks you need to record it."
The quill from the school generates ink of any colour. It doesn't specify that it counts as a "fine ink" for the spellbook ability. The benefit to the spellbook is the speed of writing, nothing else.
The feature does not say it reduces that cost, so it doesn't.
There has already been a thread that argued this for several pages. I hope it doesn't start again, because it really is as simple as "it doesn't do what it doesn't do."
No cost reduction since the cost isn't solely based on ink use nor does Wizardly Quill exempt it.
Totally free. In fact, you cannot use the quill with the normal rules for copying spells, even if you wanted to. Why?
The quill is a class feature. It does exactly what it says it does and nothing else. This quill doesn't require ink. This quill can transcribe spells. You cannot use as described in the base class Spellbook feature, since it doesn't say you can. therefore, when you use it to transcribe spells, you use it's rules for transcribing them. That rule? 2 minutes per level. That's it.
Copying Rules:
The quill doesn't say you can use it with inks. So it is incompatible with the entirety of the red text.
I'm probably laughing.
The events I prophesied 17 months ago are coming to pass (I didn't think it would take so long honestly).
I'm just going to point out what we know as RAW as simple math problems to make the logic obvious (i = special ink for copying spells cost, m = material components for experimenting with spells cost):
Simple enough right? Now, if 50 - i = 0 then materials must cost 0, but the RAW specifically states materials contribute to the cost thus must have a non-zero cost.
Tl;dr the feature does what it says it does and does not do what it does not say it can do. It doesn't say it reduces the cost to copy spells, so the answer is self evident.
As for other non-raw arguments as to why the quill can do more than it says:
In specific vs general rules, only the parts that contradict are replaced. Scribes specifically change the time it takes, but don't mention any change to cost, so there isn't. If we tried to apply this logic to all specific vs general cases, monks would lose proficiency in unarmed strikes because martial arts doesn't mention it when replacing damage and ability.
Math is unnecessary. You cannot use the quill with the magical inks needed per the Spellbook rules entry. So that rule doesn't apply. The Quill doesn't use ink. As an ability, if it could use those magical inks it would say it could. it actually says the opposite, that it doesn't use ink. Transcribing a spell only requires exactly what it says it requires in the magical quill feature and nothing else, 2 min per level. Adding additional costs is homebrew.
None of this is relevant.
Hmm, no. The Magical Quill only does what it says it does. it allows you to transcribe a spell for 2 min per spell level. No cost is listed, so you don't add one. We're not changing anything, we're just following the text of the ability itself. And doing what the ability says to do. You can copy a spell in 2 minutes per spell level by using the quill. Fin.
This quill is fundamentally incompatible with the rule you keep saying it changes. It doesn't change it. It doesn't use that rule at all. It is its own ability. It cannot be used with that rule because it cannot be used to do something not listed in its text, as it is an ability and it cannot do things not listed. it cannot be used with magical inks and practice and etc as a normal wizard would because this wizarding quill feature doesn't say that the quill can do that. So it cannot. It is complete unto itself.
I'm probably laughing.
Here, focus your attention on this sentence:
This is the typical process. Practice it, then transcribe it. This whole process takes 2 hours/level.
The quill doesn't use this rule. it just skips straight to transcribing:
By using the quill you simply transcribe it straight into your book. Because that's what it says.
If you use the quill for transcription, you must spend two minutes per level of the spell.
It doesn't say you must practice the spell beforehand. it doesn't say anything of the sort. You just transcribe it directly because that's what it says the quill does.
I'm probably laughing.
It's incredibly unclear what either of you are saying, and right now I'm genuinely convinced that you are arguing with each other yet somehow have the same position. O, the wonders of the internet.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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I do not believe they have the same position at all.
DxJxC's argument if I interpret it correctly is that there is still a cost for copying the spell as a scribe, which is arrived at by reading the 'Wizardly Quill' subclass feature into (and in context of) the 'Copying a Spell' paragraphs of the "Your Spellbook" sidebar to the "Spellcasting" class feature.
Ravnodaus's argument in contrast, again if I interpret correctly, is that the 'Wizardly Quill' feature must be read on it's own as a separate and distinct feature, and that since that text does not mention a cost, there is not one.
IMHO Ravnodaus is correct - I would compare it to the armor class calculations given by different features (natural armor, unarmored defense, etc). You either use the rule of feature X or of feature Y, but mixing them together is incorrect.
In the case of armor class, there is a rule that says you can't mix them, so that is not ambiguous. There is no such rule for class features. The closest is the specific beats general rule which makes no mention about replacing rules that aren't contradicted along with the ones that are.
RAI It's full cost, reduced time. As evidence, the UA specifically stated that both were reduced and the cost reduction was removed for the final printing.
This is the correct answer, and I believe it's RAI as well; if the quill was intended to eliminate the cost in anything other than time then it would say so. "Ink of any color" is not the same as "the exact specific ink required to transcribe spells".
With the way the transcribing rule is written it's a bit unclear, but I think it's wrong to think of this as a transaction that must take place at the time of copying; if you're planning to transcribe spells, or would like to be able to do so, then you should be able to buy the supplies you need in advance. But this only works for spells that you know you will be copying, and I think that's intended; you shouldn't expect to be able to pick up a scroll and immediately copy it into your spellbook, as the process is way, way more complicated than just copying what you see.
Add the scroll to your inventory, and next time you're passing by some shops that might sell what you need, buy it. That way you can then use the reduced copy time to copy those scrolls during pretty much any idle time you can get. That's really what this bonus is for; it reduces the copying time so you can get more of it done in less time. It's worth keeping in mind that obtaining the special inks and material components also takes time, so your average wizard copying a 1st-level spell doesn't only take 2 hours to do it; they need to source what they need to do the copying, so it might take a lot longer.
If you're in a city and we assume it takes twenty minutes to get transcribing materials, then your non-scribes wizard is going to take around two and half hours to copy one spell, whereas your scribes wizard could copy multiple in half an hour. How much this benefits you in practice will depend a lot on how strict your DM is about times and shopping; if your DM just goes "it says 50 gp so deduct 50 gp" and doesn't really account for downtime and such then you won't see much benefit, but if instead they say "so you've got about five hours for downtime" then the order of scribes wizard can spend more of that carousing than another wizard might. 😉
Plus there are other potential fun benefits to the quill; I recently had my wizard get his hands manacled (don't ask), and the ability to summon the quill into his hand as a bonus action meant he immediately had something he could use to try and pick the lock. It took him a while, but hey, the awkward pick that you have is better than the thieves' tools that you don't!
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DxJxC you hit the nail on the head with specific beats general which is exactly what is (or should be) going on here.
The Wizardly Quill (as a complete whole) is a specific rule that allows spells to be copied - which beats the general rule of how spells are copied... you are instead proposing that parts of a specific rule beat parts of the general rule. When the designer's intent is to modify (i.e. parts of a specific rule override parts of a general rule as you are suggesting), they make either explicit or implicit reference to the general rule, for example in the Savant feature of the other Wizard subclasses it says "the gold and time you must spend to copy a ... spell into your spellbook is halved." This is an implicit reference to the general rule of copying spells. Similarly in the latter part of the Scribe's Master Scrivener feature the time and cost of crafting a spell scroll (using the wizardly quill) makes explicit reference to the DMG saying the time and cost is halved. (which also leads to the question, if scrolls can be made at half cost why would copying spells be at full cost?)
Likewise with the Awakened Spell Book feature the general rule of replacing a lost spellbook at a cost of 1 hour and 10gp per level to transcribe spells you have prepared into a new book is beat by the specific rule that in the span of a short rest you write a few sigils into a blank book and your spellbook's consciousness magically transforms the book into your spellbook complete with all it's spells (with no cost specified).
As you astutely pointed out earlier in this thread "the feature does what it says it does and does not do what it does not say it can do." In the case of Wizardly Quill it does not say (explicitly or implicityl) that it modifies the general rule, therefore it does not and must operate independent of the general rule.
Expanding on ROB_BHE's point. You cannot use the Magical Quill feature with normal inks required when you scribe spells into your spellbook. As a subclass feature, it does only what it says it does. If you could use it with inks it would say so. It says instead that it doesn't use ink. Ergo, it cannot be used to scribe scrolls using the standard spellbook rules.
Luckily, it doesn't need to use them. As it has its own.
That's it, the whole thing. Takes 2 minutes per spell level.
It was even pointed out that Savant features DO modify normal Spellbook copying rules. This is true. but, you'll note some big differences in how it is worded:
This is a direct interaction with the default rule. Time and cost is halved.
Now, return your gaze to the Scribe's quill rule again and note that it isn't phrased in a way that modifies the existing rules at all. there is no "instead of" or "you only spend" or etc. It is an entirely stand alone method of transcribing spells that doesn't reference the default method. Savant, isn't standalone. That's the key takeaway from any comparison between the two. One modifies a rule, the other is its own rule.
This is similar, if I am to toss in another analogy, to how sometimes people get confused about action types. For example, if you use Alchemist's Fire. You are using an action, to make an attack roll, to attack a creature. But it isn't the "Attack Action". So despite having Extra Attack or whatever, you're not making an Attack Action. You've instead used your Action in a different way, one the item itself gives you the rules for, not the normal rules for Attack Actions. Same thing here. You're not using the transcription rules provided by the default spellbook text. You're using the rules for transcribing found in your specific quill feature text instead.
I'm probably laughing.
So just to be clear here, the copy spells for free advocates would also claim that order of the scribe wizards can copy cantrips and spells of a higher level than they can prepare into their spellbook since "When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a spell level you can prepare and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it" is part of the rule that is supposedly replaced in its entirety. Right?
And since wizardly quill doesn't mention spell level limits just like it doesn't mention price, that is an intentional omission intended to remove the general rule. That is your argument, correct?
I read this thread a while ago.
Wizardly Quill provides free ink and halves the time it takes to write spells (when copying from another book). However, we're not told how long it takes to copy the spell or how much it costs for the inks when learning a new spell - the 50gp and 2 hours per level is not just copying the spell over and the inks, but also includes the process of learning and the materials used up in doing so, which the quill does not reduce or negate. If the feature were intended to have an effect on those costs, we would have been given explicit instructions on how apply it.
Instead, the feature seems to be intended for use when duplicating your own spellbook. We are given instructions that work for this.
If you wished to use houserule that the feature does help when learning new spells, it can be calculated by inferrance. However, that it has be done from inferrance tells us that it is not RAW or RAI. It is homebrew.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Cantrips aren't 1st level or higher, and they don't have a spell level. Dunno what you mean.
Are you trying to talk about the optional class feature?
I don't think anyone has tried to speak for the authors here. That'd be fairly presumptuous, no? I've never seen any of them mention what they were thinking while writing it. Maybe that's their goal? Who's to say but them?
I'm probably laughing.
Does it? I think you're mixing Scribes wizard up for all the different Savant wizard abilities. Savants halve the time and cost for copying spells of their specific school. Scribes doesn't. In fact, the Scribe's Wizardly Quill provides its own separate means of copying spells into your spellbook.
We are told. It takes 2 minutes per level. That's it.
No. No we're not.The Quill is for Copying Spells into the spellbook. This feature is entirely silent and the 2 minutes/level is even incompatible with complete copies of a new book. Why?
The Awakened Spellbook feature has rules for reproducing your own spellbook. And it provides its own timeline guidance for this. You can make an entire duplicate over the course of a short rest.
Cost: Nothing. Time: Short Rest. Result: Whole new book.
That is literally what the feature says it does. Homebrew is not required.
From Awakened Spellbook:
As you can see, it has its own timing. Reproducing a spellbook isn't 'halved" it has its own timing. One short rest. The Quill can also be used for copying new spells into your book:
I'm probably laughing.